The Politics Thread

[pbrown355]

He should be forgiven because he's responding to my rant about the "inclusive" fun run which excludes women. I take full responsibility.
By the way I probably have fxxxall better to do either.

[puntingking]

This occupying your mind, oh dear 
You go study
I'm not sure which is worse:
1/ you going on about the potential inequitable treatment of men [suggests **** all else better to do] or
2/ you actually doing yoga
1 is sad fucker material &
2 is giving a very good impression of batting
As @JR mentioned contact your councillor, he or she will be overjoyed 

I was responding to another member comment relating to leaving women and girls out of a fun run.

I am against all forms of inequality, however this isn't usually the stuff I think about every day.
 

[puntingking]

He should be forgiven because he's responding to my rant about the "inclusive" fun run which excludes women. I take full responsibility.
By the way I probably have fxxxall better to do either.

 

[RandomGuy99]

BBC News - Mystery donor gives $130m to US military for paying troops during shutdown
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Elon trying to mend bridges?

[RandomGuy99]

Trump is so awesome BBC News - Trump presides over Thai-Cambodia 'peace deal' - but what does it mean?
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[bigden40]

Trump is so awesome BBC News - Trump presides over Thai-Cambodia 'peace deal' - but what does it mean?
External Link/Members Only

BBC is so trash these days, they seem unable to just report the news.

The Thailand/Cambodia border dispute is not nothing, it’s been an issue for 120 years since the French drew the border.  It flared up militarily earlier this year and the US have first wrangled a ceasefire a which has subsequently been formalised with a partial demilitarisation. 

Here’s a less biased take from, off all places, the Grauniad.

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There’s many things to mock Trump for, persuading nations to back down from military conflict seems a weird choice of target.

[bigden40]

BBC News - Mystery donor gives $130m to US military for paying troops during shutdown
External Link/Members Only

Elon trying to mend bridges?

Nope. It was Timothy Mellon.

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[bigden40]

So Lucy Powell beats Bridget Phillipson to the Deputy Leadership.

Not a great choice really, her recent comments about grooming gangs being a “dog whistle issue” should have seen her forced to drop out, but then again it’s par for the course with the Labour Party today.

Bridget Phillipson would have been a better choice, not because she’s particularly inspiring but because it would have taken her away from the Education brief that she’s turned into a clusterfuck. I'm no fan of the last government but one of the few bright spots had been Gove's education reforms which have been increasing standards.

[RandomGuy99]

BBC is so trash these days, they seem unable to just report the news.

The Thailand/Cambodia border dispute is not nothing, it’s been an issue for 120 years since the French drew the border.  It flared up militarily earlier this year and the US have first wrangled a ceasefire a which has subsequently been formalised with a partial demilitarisation. 

Here’s a less biased take from, off all places, the Grauniad.

External Link/Members Only

There’s many things to mock Trump for, persuading nations to back down from military conflict seems a weird choice of target.

"The eight wars that my administration has ended in eight months – there's never been anything like that," he said. "We're averaging one a month... It's like, I shouldn't say it's a hobby, because it's so much more serious, but something I'm good at and something I love to do."

"Describing the two slightly sheepish-looking prime ministers who were about to sign the deal as "historic figures", Trump recalled at length how he got involved in the Thai-Cambodian border conflict while he was visiting his Turnberry golf course in Scotland in July.

"And I said this is much more important than a round of golf... I could have had a lot of fun, but this is much more fun... saving people and saving countries."

Meanwhile he increases the tariffs on Canada because he didn't like a TV advert.

BBC News - Venezuela's Maduro says US 'fabricating war' as it deploys world's largest warship
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[bigden40]

"The eight wars that my administration has ended in eight months – there's never been anything like that," he said. "We're averaging one a month... It's like, I shouldn't say it's a hobby, because it's so much more serious, but something I'm good at and something I love to do."

"Describing the two slightly sheepish-looking prime ministers who were about to sign the deal as "historic figures", Trump recalled at length how he got involved in the Thai-Cambodian border conflict while he was visiting his Turnberry golf course in Scotland in July.

"And I said this is much more important than a round of golf... I could have had a lot of fun, but this is much more fun... saving people and saving countries."

Meanwhile he increases the tariffs on Canada because he didn't like a TV advert.

BBC News - Venezuela's Maduro says US 'fabricating war' as it deploys world's largest warship
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Do you have a point that you’re trying to make?  Or just throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks?

[RandomGuy99]

BBC News - Russia says it has tested nuclear-powered Burevestnik missile
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What happens to the nuclear reactor when it blows up at its target?

[bigden40]

BBC News - Russia says it has tested nuclear-powered Burevestnik missile
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What happens to the nuclear reactor when it blows up at its target?

I’d be more concerned about the nuclear payload than the nuclear power source.

Nuclear-thermal propulsion has interesting implications for space travel though.

One for this topic I think:  https://www.ukpunting.com/index.php?topic=336879

[timsussex]

even more worrying is the potentially unlimited range so it can take a very circuitous route
We don't have many radar systems looking for missiles arriving from the west or southwest especially ones flying at 100ft

[Blackpool Rock]

So how about this then, Reform are being called out as racist for making a comment about adverts not being representative of the population and over representing black / Asian people

This has been discussed on here before and I recall commenting on it too, my initial thought however was how on earth do you prove anything like that but they then quote from a study done in 2022 which showed how black (I assume that also includes Asian  ) representation increased from 37% to 51% from 2020 to 2022 after the BLM movement
What isn't stated about the above study however is whether "representation" means a single black / Asian person in an advert or the % of people overall within adverts however having watched adverts over the last 5 years or so IMO it's glaringly obvious that it's the overall % of people in adverts

Apparently in England and Wales 9.3% of people are classed as Asian; 4.0% black; 2.9% "Mixed" and 2.1% from other ethnic groups with 81.7% classed as white

External Link/Members Only

I've sat and watched TV with family members who most would consider quite lefty and even a bit woke including Guardian readers  who have passed comment that based on TV adverts you'd think we lived in Africa

Fuck me I hate Farage & Reform but in this instance i'm feeling that I have to come out and bat for them 
And it's not just the pure "representation" or over representation numbers you also need to look at the roles within the adverts of how different ethnicities are represented and portrayed, whose in charge; whose the hero; whose at the front / back etc etc

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[puntingking]

Then there is this -
External Link/Members Only

Graffiti has been spray painted onto the shutters of Reform's campaign office in Caerphilly which reads "Now u can f*** off home." It comes after the party finished second in the Caerphilly by-election for the Senedd, which saw Plaid Cymru secure 47% of the vote.

There is good and bad people on what ever side of the political debate you are on 

[bigden40]

So how about this then, Reform are being called out as racist for making a comment about adverts not being representative of the population and over representing black / Asian people

This has been discussed on here before and I recall commenting on it too, my initial thought however was how on earth do you prove anything like that but they then quote from a study done in 2022 which showed how black (I assume that also includes Asian  ) representation increased from 37% to 51% from 2020 to 2022 after the BLM movement
What isn't stated about the above study however is whether "representation" means a single black / Asian person in an advert or the % of people overall within adverts however having watched adverts over the last 5 years or so IMO it's glaringly obvious that it's the overall % of people in adverts

Apparently in England and Wales 9.3% of people are classed as Asian; 4.0% black; 2.9% "Mixed" and 2.1% from other ethnic groups with 81.7% classed as white

External Link/Members Only

I've sat and watched TV with family members who most would consider quite lefty and even a bit woke including Guardian readers  who have passed comment that based on TV adverts you'd think we lived in Africa

Fuck me I hate Farage & Reform but in this instance i'm feeling that I have to come out and bat for them 
And it's not just the pure "representation" or over representation numbers you also need to look at the roles within the adverts of how different ethnicities are represented and portrayed, whose in charge; whose the hero; whose at the front / back etc etc

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Honestly you’re right. 

Also seems like every other advert features a lesbian couple.  No objection to LGB representation either, but like race it’s being completely overdone.

[bigden40]

Then there is this -
External Link/Members Only

Graffiti has been spray painted onto the shutters of Reform's campaign office in Caerphilly which reads "Now u can f*** off home." It comes after the party finished second in the Caerphilly by-election for the Senedd, which saw Plaid Cymru secure 47% of the vote.

There is good and bad people on what ever side of the political debate you are on 

It's also kinda witty for abusive graffiti.

[Adoniron]

So how about this then, Reform are being called out as racist for making a comment about adverts not being representative of the population and over representing black / Asian people

This has been discussed on here before and I recall commenting on it too, my initial thought however was how on earth do you prove anything like that but they then quote from a study done in 2022 which showed how black (I assume that also includes Asian  ) representation increased from 37% to 51% from 2020 to 2022 after the BLM movement
What isn't stated about the above study however is whether "representation" means a single black / Asian person in an advert or the % of people overall within adverts however having watched adverts over the last 5 years or so IMO it's glaringly obvious that it's the overall % of people in adverts

Apparently in England and Wales 9.3% of people are classed as Asian; 4.0% black; 2.9% "Mixed" and 2.1% from other ethnic groups with 81.7% classed as white

External Link/Members Only

I've sat and watched TV with family members who most would consider quite lefty and even a bit woke including Guardian readers  who have passed comment that based on TV adverts you'd think we lived in Africa

Fuck me I hate Farage & Reform but in this instance i'm feeling that I have to come out and bat for them 
And it's not just the pure "representation" or over representation numbers you also need to look at the roles within the adverts of how different ethnicities are represented and portrayed, whose in charge; whose the hero; whose at the front / back etc etc

External Link/Members Only

I hate Reform and everything they stand for but she has a point.

It certainly seems that ethnic minority people are disproportionately represented in adverts.

Usually the ethnic minority people portrayed in adverts are black African/Caribbean. You see very few Asian people, even though there are more of them in the UK than black.

Also it's almost always a black man and a white woman, hardly ever the other way round.

[JontyR]

For real? It's an advert and companies can design them to appeal to what ever demographic they want.

I notice that all adverts for stair lifts contain Thora Hird, and Thora Hird prepresents no more that 0.00000001% of the population.

Out of interest, what is the demographic of those acting on adverts on GBNews?

[puntingking]

I hate Reform and everything they stand for but she has a point.

It certainly seems that ethnic minority people are disproportionately represented in adverts.

Usually the ethnic minority people portrayed in adverts are black African/Caribbean. You see very few Asian people, even though there are more of them in the UK than black.

Also it's almost always a black man and a white woman, hardly ever the other way round.

the black population make up less than 5% of the uk population but make up 51% of advertising. 

A clearly racist element is on play here against white people when this is the case. 

[puntingking]

That  being said, the reform uk mp said it in a completely the wrong way which made her come across as racists. 

[puntingking]

they aim to move all migrants out of hotels and into council properties by the end of the year, could this mean lower hotel price per a room come early next year I wonder 
I guess it could as the demand of hotels will lower 

[sparkus]

I hate Reform and everything they stand for but she has a point.

It certainly seems that ethnic minority people are disproportionately represented in adverts.

Usually the ethnic minority people portrayed in adverts are black African/Caribbean. You see very few Asian people, even though there are more of them in the UK than black.

Also it's almost always a black man and a white woman, hardly ever the other way round.

I've seen plenty of ads with it "the other way around".

I'm not saying Pochin has a point but as someone who travels around a bit, mixed race couples are definitely common inside "the M25" as she says it.  Less so elsewhere, but I suppose one factor for that is where the population is distributed rather than active choice.

I've also had black people say to me they find the disproportionate thing in advertising tacky (I've also heard it said in response that it's after decades of under representation).  These anecdotal claims are not necessarily representative but I've noticed recently a slight dialling down on the trend, corporate backlash against DEI working its way through?

I'm guessing this trend will be confined to the early 2020s, I don't think it'll be around forever. 

[bigden40]

So back to the grooming gang enquiry. 

Starmer wrote to the victims that have resigned from the enquiry. Don’t think the response was exactly what he expected ….



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[bigden40]

For real? It's an advert and companies can design them to appeal to what ever demographic they want.

I notice that all adverts for stair lifts contain Thora Hird, and Thora Hird prepresents no more that 0.00000001% of the population.

Out of interest, what is the demographic of those acting on adverts on GBNews?

That could be an early candidate for stupidest post of the day.

You probably think you’ve made a clever point, but in reality it’s a complete fail.

[JontyR]

Yawn. Do you often hear whooshing noises?

It's advertising, its modelled to project a message/image to a desired audience. It's why your newspapers will contain adverts for elasticated trousers and furry topped boots with zips. I don't object to these adverts existing, i'm not the intended audience.

[puntingking]

Yawn. Do you often hear whooshing noises?

It's advertising, its modelled to project a message/image to a desired audience. It's why your newspapers will contain adverts for elasticated trousers and furry topped boots with zips. I don't object to these adverts existing, i'm not the intended audience.

Advertising legislation, such as the UK's ASA/CAP code, prohibits ads that include stereotypes likely to cause harm or serious offense, particularly those based on gender, race, religion, or sexual orientation.

I read this to mean that if someone feels offended based on their race, religion or sexual orientation then the advert can be pulled.   

So it is safer for them to portray white people as the bad guys in adverts. 

[RedKettle]

Advertising legislation, such as the UK's ASA/CAP code, prohibits ads that include stereotypes likely to cause harm or serious offense, particularly those based on gender, race, religion, or sexual orientation.

I read this to mean that if someone feels offended based on their race, religion or sexual orientation then the advert can be pulled.   

So it is safer for them to portray white people as the bad guys in adverts. 

That is a ridiculous interpretation of the code.

[mh]

the black population make up less than 5% of the uk population but make up 51% of advertising. 

Utter garbage. There are lies, damned lies and statistics.

Perhaps a black or Asian person might appear in "more than 50% of adverts". I don't know, but I guess it is maybe possible. But a similar metric for white people may be that a white person appears in "more than 90% of adverts". Both can be true at the same time. Both can be perfectly representative. But I can tell you for certain that "The black population" does not "make up 51% of advertising".

[DastardlyDick]

All the various "groups" mentioned have money to spend on products/services, so why wouldn't advertisers have them in ads?

[pbrown355]

So back to the grooming gang enquiry. 

Starmer wrote to the victims that have resigned from the enquiry. Don’t think the response was exactly what he expected ….



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Wow

[puntingking]

That is a ridiculous interpretation of the code.

That is just my interpretation 

[chrishornx]

That is just my interpretation 

daft and contradictory

[Charliehutton]

It certainly seems that ethnic minority people are disproportionately represented in adverts.

Usually the ethnic minority people portrayed in adverts are black African/Caribbean. You see very few Asian people, even though there are more of them in the UK than black.

Also it's almost always a black man and a white woman, hardly ever the other way round.

This is so palpably true, it's impossible to ignore, and yet just pointing it out sends some people into hissy fits. It doesn't bother me or most people I know, in fact it can be quite comical. My favourite features a young, urban black guy raving about a fabric conditioner. FFS!

[petermisc]

the black population make up less than 5% of the uk population but make up 51% of advertising. 

A clearly racist element is on play here against white people when this is the case. 

But how many people appear in each individual advert?  One or two?  If each individual advertiser were to say, we are only going to represent according the % of the population, then each individual advertiser would only choose white actors, and so ALL the ads would only represent white people.  Which is what happened for years and years, not only with adverts but in programming too.  Which was incredibly discriminatory.

So now each individual advertiser aims to be more inclusive.  Which, with only one or two people in most adverts, inherently means that the coloured population will be over-represented.  But that is surely only concerning to those who find the colour of a person's skin concerning.

[RandomGuy99]

BBC News - Half of US states sue Trump administration over halting food stamps
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[puntingking]

But how many people appear in each individual advert?  One or two?  If each individual advertiser were to say, we are only going to represent according the % of the population, then each individual advertiser would only choose white actors, and so ALL the ads would only represent white people.  Which is what happened for years and years, not only with adverts but in programming too.  Which was incredibly discriminatory.

So now each individual advertiser aims to be more inclusive.  Which, with only one or two people in most adverts, inherently means that the coloured population will be over-represented.  But that is surely only concerning to those who find the colour of a person's skin concerning.

it is a good point you have made 

[chrishornx]

But how many people appear in each individual advert?  One or two?  If each individual advertiser were to say, we are only going to represent according the % of the population, then each individual advertiser would only choose white actors, and so ALL the ads would only represent white people.  Which is what happened for years and years, not only with adverts but in programming too.  Which was incredibly discriminatory.

So now each individual advertiser aims to be more inclusive.  Which, with only one or two people in most adverts, inherently means that the coloured population will be over-represented.  But that is surely only concerning to those who find the colour of a person's skin concerning.

ALL ads only representing white people would not 'represent according to % of population

[bigden40]

BBC News - Half of US states sue Trump administration over halting food stamps
External Link/Members Only

Another inaccurate BBC article, burying the lede as usual.

The SNAP program will be halted because of the government shutdown, not by specific actions of the Trump administration.

This shutdown is basically on the Democrats who keep voting down the “clean” budget bill passed by Congress but which requires 60 votes in the Senate.  A bunch of Democrats states are now trying to make political capital from it through this case, they did the same in 2018. The problem they face is that the public is generally blaming the Democrats and not Trump for the shutdown. 

[Blackpool Rock]

Another inaccurate BBC article, burying the lede as usual.

The SNAP program will be halted because of the government shutdown, not by specific actions of the Trump administration.

This shutdown is basically on the Democrats who keep voting down the “clean” budget bill passed by Congress but which requires 60 votes in the Senate.  A bunch of Democrats states are now trying to make political capital from it through this case, they did the same in 2018. The problem they face is that the public is generally blaming the Democrats and not Trump for the shutdown.

These shutdowns and the length of them seems to have got worse over the last approx 10-15 years though and overall IMO both sides are just getting more and more partisan, at the end of the day it's not doing America or the American people any good whoever is to blame

[Adoniron]

Another inaccurate BBC article, burying the lede as usual.

The SNAP program will be halted because of the government shutdown, not by specific actions of the Trump administration.

This shutdown is basically on the Democrats who keep voting down the “clean” budget bill passed by Congress but which requires 60 votes in the Senate.  A bunch of Democrats states are now trying to make political capital from it through this case, they did the same in 2018. The problem they face is that the public is generally blaming the Democrats and not Trump for the shutdown.

Government shutdowns are common in the US if one party doesn't control both houses by enough votes. Republicans have caused government shutdowns too by voting down Democrat budgets. In this case the Democrats object to cuts to health care.

[bigden40]

Government shutdowns are common in the US if one party doesn't control both houses by enough votes. Republicans have caused government shutdowns too by voting down Democrat budgets. In this case the Democrats object to cuts to health care.

As budget resolutions need 60 votes in the senate it almost always required bi-partisan support. 

Regardless the Republicans passed a “clean continuing resolution” to keep government open at the same level of spending. Something that Republicans supported 16 times when Biden was President.  Democrats are trying to make this about expiring Obamacare subsidies but at the same time have decided to make some wild demands on what else they want in the bill. 

As always in politics, everything depends on public perception. It’s not favouring the democrats, which is why people like Fetterman are speaking out against it.

[Strawberry]

But how many people appear in each individual advert?  One or two?  If each individual advertiser were to say, we are only going to represent according the % of the population, then each individual advertiser would only choose white actors, and so ALL the ads would only represent white people.  Which is what happened for years and years, not only with adverts but in programming too.  Which was incredibly discriminatory.

So now each individual advertiser aims to be more inclusive.  Which, with only one or two people in most adverts, inherently means that the coloured population will be over-represented.  But that is surely only concerning to those who find the colour of a person's skin concerning.

I notice the difference because when I was growing up most advertisements portrayed one demographic, perhaps two if we include some working class (and I am only talking about differences in lifestyles). Because of course everyone aspired to be living in a lovely semi-detached house (when semis were large), wife at home, man going to work in a business suit, one car, speaking the Queen's English.

Because I am white, living in a ruralish area did not cross my mind that there wasn't any choice of for example tights, or make-up for some women. I also suspect businesses are realising they can appeal to a diverse population, which also includes different body sizes, ability, disability. A far cry from very slim, white models of the 70s, 80s, 90s (Of course Naomi Campbell made an impact and totally stunning, but she was still slim, tall etc).

What I see when I look back is how limited & stifling the attitudes, society, fashion of the previous decades have been.

[timsussex]

was tempted to post this in the joke thread but rather than piss off the Mods

Reform want to cut the cost of supporting the disabled  it has launched plans to save billions of pounds by restricting benefits for mental health claimants.

Lee Anderson, Reform’s chief whip, suggested the return of the “Invacar” — or invalid carriage — a small single-seater microcar that was distributed by the NHS for decades after the Second World War.

for our younger readers he means these death traps

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[mr.bluesky]

was tempted to post this in the joke thread but rather than piss off the Mods

Reform want to cut the cost of supporting the disabled  it has launched plans to save billions of pounds by restricting benefits for mental health claimants.

Lee Anderson, Reform’s chief whip, suggested the return of the “Invacar” — or invalid carriage — a small single-seater microcar that was distributed by the NHS for decades after the Second World War.

for our younger readers he means these death traps

Hidden Image/Members Only

I remember the early days of visiting Coventry City's Highfield Road stadium they would allow a number of these to be parked in the corner of the stadium near the touchline and corner flag.
Didn't look very safe driving one of these. You'd think a strong gust of wind would blow them over and look how close they are to the pitch .

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[RedKettle]

I remember the early days of visiting Coventry City's Highfield Road stadium they would allow a number of these to be parked in the corner of the stadium near the touchline and corner flag.
Didn't look very safe driving one of these. You'd think a strong gust of wind would blow them over and look how close they are to the pitch .

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You could drive them with a motorbike licence and they tipped over more easily than a bike.

[Thephoenix]

You could drive them with a motorbike licence and they tipped over more easily than a bike.

Same with all 3 wheelers.
A cousin of mine owned a series of Reliant Regals and Robins for years with just a motorcycle licence.
As they were treated as motorcycles, they were free to use the Mersey tunnels.
They were noisy and uncomfortable but had great little engines.
The only complaint he had was during heavy snowfalls when other vehicles whould clear a track leaving the pile of hard snow in the middle.

[toon972]

was tempted to post this in the joke thread but rather than piss off the Mods

Reform want to cut the cost of supporting the disabled  it has launched plans to save billions of pounds by restricting benefits for mental health claimants.

Lee Anderson, Reform’s chief whip, suggested the return of the “Invacar” — or invalid carriage — a small single-seater microcar that was distributed by the NHS for decades after the Second World War.

for our younger readers he means these death traps

Saw one of these roll over when trying to turn right on a bank going downhill.

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[timsussex]

knew the old codgers on here would remember them - three wheelers are a lot more stable if the odd wheel is at the back - Morgan have been making them for decades

Reliant only survived because they could be driven on a motorcycle licence and of the reduced purchase tax as they weren't "real cars"

There was no truth in the rumour that they were made on the Isle of Man   

[JontyR]

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Am I right in thinking there is a Carr in that photo?