Author Topic: The Politics Thread  (Read 900110 times)

Online Punting2022

The icing on the cake will be Lord Khan coming in as Home Secretary.

Please no

Online Vice Admiral

I don't find Andy Burnham's recent activities and statements very reassuring.

At the moment he’s just the MP for Makerfield.  Nothing more. There’s too much neo-triumphalism and glad-handing going on from someone who, to all intents and purposes, has no legitimacy.  A bit more humility and tact would be desirable.

Meanwhile, this business of setting up a branch of 10 Downing Street in Manchester is a silly gimmick that is likely to achieve nothing and to lead to confusion and inefficiency.  And if I hear the word "Manchesterism" once more I shall, like Violet-Elizabeth Bott, “thcream and thcream until I'm thick".

Oh, and Burnham intends to provide “good growth in every postcode and hope in every heart”.  (Yuk.)

Good luck with that.

I’m beginning to think that the usurper Burnham may turn out to be the most annoying Prime Minister of my lifetime.  (A competitive field...)

Nothing in Andy Burnham’s recent behaviour prompts me to change the views I expressed two and a half weeks ago.

For example.  Yesterday Burnham claimed that his election as Labour leader was “the most significant change moment in our politics for 40 years”.

Sorry, Andy.  That’s the kind of thing political historians may – or, more likely, may not – be writing in ten years’ time.  It’s not the kind of thing you say about yourself.  And it certainly isn’t the kind of thing you say about yourself before you’ve even become Prime Minister and before you’ve done anything.

I think that – albeit in an entirely different way – Burnham’s political antennae are as faulty as Starmer’s.

The unconventional – some might say unscrupulous – manner of his ascent to power surely required a touch of humility in his early speeches.  Instead we get smugness and something uncomfortably close to triumphalism.  He comes across as very pleased with himself and, to me, as utterly phoney.

As for his dancing along to the song "True Faith" by New Order, well, pass the sick-bag, Alice.  (Also it wasn’t a patch on Theresa May and “Dancing Queen”.)

Finally, in the context of his “coup”, reporters yesterday asked Burnham if it was right for him to talk about ending the friction within Labour after helping kick Starmer out of office.

He replied: “Well, there was obviously a decision taken by the PLP [Parliamentary Labour Party].  It wasn't by me.  I wasn't in parliament. I wasn't in the position to be involved in that in terms of the decisions that the PLP came to. But obviously, in politics, you have to respond to the big moments.”

What nauseating hypocrisy!

Offline juzz

Nothing in Andy Burnham’s recent behaviour prompts me to change the views I expressed two and a half weeks ago.

For example.  Yesterday Burnham claimed that his election as Labour leader was “the most significant change moment in our politics for 40 years”.

Sorry, Andy.  That’s the kind of thing political historians may – or, more likely, may not – be writing in ten years’ time.  It’s not the kind of thing you say about yourself.  And it certainly isn’t the kind of thing you say about yourself before you’ve even become Prime Minister and before you’ve done anything.

I think that – albeit in an entirely different way – Burnham’s political antennae are as faulty as Starmer’s.

The unconventional – some might say unscrupulous – manner of his ascent to power surely required a touch of humility in his early speeches.  Instead we get smugness and something uncomfortably close to triumphalism.  He comes across as very pleased with himself and, to me, as utterly phoney.

As for his dancing along to the song "True Faith" by New Order, well, pass the sick-bag, Alice.  (Also it wasn’t a patch on Theresa May and “Dancing Queen”.)

Finally, in the context of his “coup”, reporters yesterday asked Burnham if it was right for him to talk about ending the friction within Labour after helping kick Starmer out of office.

He replied: “Well, there was obviously a decision taken by the PLP [Parliamentary Labour Party].  It wasn't by me.  I wasn't in parliament. I wasn't in the position to be involved in that in terms of the decisions that the PLP came to. But obviously, in politics, you have to respond to the big moments.”

What nauseating hypocrisy!

I think you are absolutely right.

The top headline on the BBC this morning - External Link/Members Only - is that Burnham is planning to announce new North Sea oil drilling.

That will upset different factions of the Labour party very quickly, irrespective of whether its the right decision or not. I don't see unity lasting long at all.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 08:47:26 am by juzz »

Online RandomGuy99

Donald Trump is now a football expert

BBC News - World Cup 2026: President Donald Trump questions Harry Kane's defensive role for England - BBC Sport
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Online Squire Haggard

BREAKING - A Labour leader thats not a complete fucking idiot like Ed Millipede.

I also like his idea of staying ''oop north'' and moving away from being London centric.

My approval might end there though because we could be taxed a lot more for nationalisations like Thames Water and other things. We will know more soon.

''Andy Burnham will announce plans for new oil and gas drilling in the North Sea when he becomes prime minister on Monday, the BBC has been told.''

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Online Punting2022

I think you are absolutely right.

The top headline on the BBC this morning - External Link/Members Only - is that Burnham is planning to announce new North Sea oil drilling.

That will upset different factions of the Labour party very quickly, irrespective of whether its the right decision or not. I don't see unity lasting long at all.

Lovely news. Net zero is a scam. All the west went downhill with net zero. Most ppl buying rubbish chinese ev.
Go back to fossil fuels. World is heating. Adapt and install ac.

Offline Blackpool Rock

I was told by someone earlier that apparently Liz Truss has publicly warned about the economy suffering when Andy Burnham takes over.

Oh the fucking irony but it's totally lost on her, and a few on here 🙄

Offline RadioKid

Lovely news. Net zero is a scam. All the west went downhill with net zero. Most ppl buying rubbish chinese ev.
Go back to fossil fuels. World is heating. Adapt and install ac.

I would not say Net Zero is a scam. It is certainly the way foward.

It's just the world got exposed by covid and recent conflicts in that the over-reliance on fossil fuels is way too severe. There needs to be a more gradual adoption of renewable.

Online Vice Admiral

I would not say Net Zero is a scam. It is certainly the way foward.

It's just the world got exposed by covid and recent conflicts in that the over-reliance on fossil fuels is way too severe. There needs to be a more gradual adoption of renewable.

Although I think it would be a mistake for Andy Burnham to appoint Ed Miliband as his Chancellor, I admire Miliband for his principled – but unpopular – position on Net Zero, while not being entirely sure what my own position is.

Here’s what Google AI offers this in response to the question:  “Is there any point in net zero if China and the USA don't bother?”

Yes. Even if the US and China fail to achieve absolute net zero, smaller emitters must still transition. Climate change is cumulative; every fraction of a degree matters, and localized action drives down the cost of green technology. Furthermore, neither country is completely inactive; China leads in renewable energy deployment, while localized US policies continue to drive significant emissions reductions.

The idea that "my country only emits 1% of global emissions" is a mathematical fallacy. Collectively, smaller and mid-sized emitters make up the majority of global emissions. If every smaller country abandoned their targets, global temperature rise would accelerate rapidly.


Of course it is easy to understand the feeling that there’s little merit in being the good guys if everyone else is being bad guys.  Why should we be the ones who suffer by “doing our bit”?

On the other hand, opposition to the principle of Net Zero is typical of the catastrophic short-termism that affects politics and government across the globe.  More parochially, the triple lock on pensions and the size of the benefits bill are unsustainable.  Unless the first is abolished and the second brought under tight control, it is toddlers and the unborn who will suffer the consequences by living in a bankrupt country.

But toddlers and the unborn don’t have votes, so politicians will continue to pander to the self-interest of those who do.  Almost no-one casts their vote on behalf of the generations to come. 

Online Squire Haggard

^                                                 ^                                                  ^                                                  ^                                                 ^
Millipede's ''net zero'' policy means that we have to import the oil and gas that we dont produce ourselves. It makes zero difference to our consumption of these, as we simply import from abroad what we dont produce ourselves. In other words it makes zero difference to the drive towards ''net zero''. It appears that Millipede has yet to figure this out.


 
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 01:53:08 pm by Squire Haggard »

Offline badsin

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Also add the investment, jobs, tax from our own work force.

We should also remember the oil fields around the Falklands  :hi:


Online Vice Admiral

Millipede's ''net zero'' policy means that we have to import the oil and gas that we dont produce ourselves. It makes zero difference to our consumption of these, as we simply import from abroad what we dont produce ourselves. In other words it makes zero difference to the drive towards ''net zero''. It appears that Millipede has yet to figure this out.

That is of course a very valid point.
 
I asked Google AI for its view, and it said:  “Yes, importing oil and gas usually does just as much damage to the environment—and in many cases, it creates significantly more greenhouse gas emissions than drilling domestically.  While halting domestic drilling protects local ecosystems from direct industrial footprints and localized spill risks, it does not eliminate the carbon footprint of the fuel being consumed.  When accounting for the entire supply chain, importing fossil fuels shifts the environmental burden elsewhere and introduces extra layers of pollution.”

What would be the response to this from Miliband and those who agree with him?  Does anyone know?

Offline pbrown355

That is of course a very valid point.
 
I asked Google AI for its view, and it said:  “Yes, importing oil and gas usually does just as much damage to the environment—and in many cases, it creates significantly more greenhouse gas emissions than drilling domestically.  While halting domestic drilling protects local ecosystems from direct industrial footprints and localized spill risks, it does not eliminate the carbon footprint of the fuel being consumed.  When accounting for the entire supply chain, importing fossil fuels shifts the environmental burden elsewhere and introduces extra layers of pollution.”

What would be the response to this from Miliband and those who agree with him?  Does anyone know?
It doesn't need AI to make that point. And I've never heard the question put to any senior Labour politician about how they think global fossil fuel consumption is reduced by burning someone else's oil. Would love to hear the explanation.

Online Squire Haggard

Zack Polanski proving that he's a complete idiot.

''Zack Polanski has responded to reports of Andy Burnham planning new oil and gas drilling in the North Sea:

"Deeply irresponsible. We're in a climate crisis. This is such a terrible start."

Zack would like us to import oil and gas instead. :crazy: :wacko:

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Online Zimbaman

It doesn't need AI to make that point. And I've never heard the question put to any senior Labour politician about how they think global fossil fuel consumption is reduced by burning someone else's oil. Would love to hear the explanation.

It’s been explained so many times  :unknown: The North Sea is almost finished. New sites could take years to be productive. Even then output will be tiny compared to global output. The crude oil produced from the North Sea is generally exported as it is not the type we need. We still need to import. So why not put limited resources into green energy development? Like it or not, that’s the future. We could be a global leader, or rely on others. Ed Milliband was looking at the long game. Reduce our reliance of carbon (it will happen anyway) and boost the economy in the long term.

Online Vice Admiral

Although I think it would be a mistake for Andy Burnham to appoint Ed Miliband as his Chancellor, I admire Miliband for his principled – but unpopular – position on Net Zero, while not being entirely sure what my own position is.

Opposition to the principle of Net Zero is typical of the catastrophic short-termism that affects politics and government across the globe.  More parochially, the triple lock on pensions and the size of the benefits bill are unsustainable.  Unless the first is abolished and the second brought under tight control, it is toddlers and the unborn who will suffer the consequences by living in a bankrupt country.

But toddlers and the unborn don’t have votes, so politicians will continue to pander to the self-interest of those who do.  Almost no-one casts their vote on behalf of the generations to come.

It’s been explained so many times  :unknown: The North Sea is almost finished. New sites could take years to be productive. Even then output will be tiny compared to global output. The crude oil produced from the North Sea is generally exported as it is not the type we need. We still need to import. So why not put limited resources into green energy development? Like it or not, that’s the future. We could be a global leader, or rely on others. Ed Milliband was looking at the long game. Reduce our reliance of carbon (it will happen anyway) and boost the economy in the long term.

Thank you, Zimbaman, for that lucid exposition!  I feel much better informed, and a bit ashamed I didn't know that already.

« Last Edit: Today at 07:58:18 am by Vice Admiral »

Online Massagemanmr

Zack Polanski proving that he's a complete idiot.

''Zack Polanski has responded to reports of Andy Burnham planning new oil and gas drilling in the North Sea:

"Deeply irresponsible. We're in a climate crisis. This is such a terrible start."

Zack would like us to import oil and gas instead. :crazy: :wacko:

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nah its a good idea, its much cheaper to import

Online southcoastpunter

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nah its a good idea, its much cheaper to import

That is what mrs Thatcher said about coal back in the 80’s! Sometimes other things are more important than just “cheapest” ( ok she also wanted to break the unions power base but the argument on cost was the same! )

Online Squire Haggard

nah its a good idea, its much cheaper to import
Total crap. They sell at the same price on international markets.

Online Vice Admiral

It would be a fair summary of the comments of various writers in today's Sunday Times to say that they are at present far from convinced that Andy Burnham understands how to fix Britain’s problems.

Robert Colville puts it particularly strongly.  Here are the first four paragraphs of his opinion piece:

Labour politicians like to call themselves “progressive”. But it is now clear that Andy Burnham’s political project is fundamentally regressive. It is to somehow turn back the clock, to restore a Britain of coalfields and shipyards and trade unions and nationalised industry, and a Labour Party that speaks to and for them.

How do we know this? Because he told us so.

Politicians and commentators had spent weeks wondering what Burnhamism and Manchesterism meant. But in his speech accepting the Labour leadership — held, symbolically, at the London headquarters of the Trades Union Congress — he spelt it out, again and again. It is an answer to a call from “forgotten places everywhere” for “the return of the Labour they once knew”. It is about reversing the reforms of the 1980s, when “political power was used viciously” against working-class communities, when “economic power [was] cruelly stripped with the deindustrialisation of the 1980s”.

It is a repudiation not only of Margaret Thatcher but of Tony Blair, who forced his party to accept the Thatcher settlement rather than endlessly relitigating it. It is, in other words, the most self-consciously left-wing platform adopted by any prime minister for half a century. And it is, of course, a fantasy.

And here are the final two paragraphs of Colville's article:

Finally, Burnham’s speech was a fantasy about Britain. What he gave us was a country in which all the industries, and all the places, were those of yesterday. Where all the solutions were about returning to how things used to be. Yet the Labour leaders who truly strike a chord with the nation are those who promise to build something new: Clement Attlee, Tony Blair, even Harold Wilson.

Burnham has promised voters “the return of the Labour they once knew”. But the voters who knew that Labour also know why it failed. As for the rest of us? We’re about to learn.


Ever since the prospect of a Burnham-led government sailed into view, I have opined that nothing we know of him suggests that he has the courage to "talk left, but act right" – while suggesting that nonetheless it remains just possible that he might surprise us.

Well, most of his talking so far, as Colville indicates, has indeed been left.

Now for the acting.  I wait to be surprised...

Online Charliehutton

It’s been explained so many times  :unknown: The North Sea is almost finished. New sites could take years to be productive. Even then output will be tiny compared to global output. The crude oil produced from the North Sea is generally exported as it is not the type we need. We still need to import. So why not put limited resources into green energy development? Like it or not, that’s the future. We could be a global leader, or rely on others. Ed Milliband was looking at the long game. Reduce our reliance of carbon (it will happen anyway) and boost the economy in the long term.

Ah, what you're saying, in a rather oblique way, is that we need to start fracking immediately, and of course you're dead right. Drill, baby, drill!

I did enjoy your joke about Ed Miliband and being global leaders, by the way; if only we had a tongue-in-cheek emoji! Some foolish members might even think you were being serious!