Towing a motorbike with a motorbike ? ? ?

[standardpostage]

The other day, I had cause to tow a motorbike, with a motorbike 
To a garage 8 miles away, on public roads. I never went above 20 MPH. It was a quite part of the day. I went very, very, very carefully round corners and junctions.
Someone said to me "is that legal" ?
I said I think so ! But I'm not really sure !
It was a bit scary, so I won't do it again.
Does anyone know, if it's legal ?
I googled it, but can't find a proper answer.
Motorcycle being towed 125cc. My motorcycle above 300cc.

[lamboman]

Yes you can I think there's a minimum tow rope length though.

[Blackpool Rock]

Back when I had bikes there were some of the big tourers like Goldwings etc that have properly fitted tow bars and you can but trailers for them too.

I was told at the time that it's legal to tow something else with a bike but illegal to be towed yourself

[B4bcock]

Many years ago, I read an article in 'Bike' magazine about a guy who towed his mate's broken down mini with his bike.  This was when minis were really small cars, not like the modern versions and the bike used was a BSA M21 which was a torquey 600cc single designed for sidecar use.  That was definitely not legal, even in those more carefree days.

[standardpostage]

Yes you can I think there's a minimum tow rope length though.

Thanks. I used a normal, yellow, nylon rope, for car use.
I think, nylon works well, because it has some stretch, and so took the twang out a bit, when setting off from stopped, or when going slack and then tight again.

[Watts.E.Dunn]

My olde Lalmbretta Li150 scooter packed up and i was towed home by my dad on his BSA 650!!

That was about the scariest ride i ever had!, he just didn't appricate that the scooter could not corner and me lean with it like his bike did!

How i got back there to home in one piece and alive beats me to this day!...

[NelsonH]

Case on the local radio in which a woman used her car, to push her husbands car, off a busy road into a lay-by.

Plod disapproved and they both wound up losing their license and having to retake the test.

They are pensioners I'd think and have not been able to drive for over a year now.

Compared to towing a bike this seems completely harmless behaviour.

[lillythesavage]

My olde Lalmbretta Li150 scooter packed up and i was towed home by my dad on his BSA 650!!

That was about the scariest ride i ever had!, he just didn't appricate that the scooter could not corner and me lean with it like his bike did!

How i got back there to home in one piece and alive beats me to this day!...

sounds like fun to me ,

Not a bike, but once towed a Hillman Imp from Devon coast to East London, with an Austin 1100 running on 3 cylinders, it was a long long journey,

[Gordon Bennett]

You don't see side cars anymore do you? Seemed common in 60s and 70s when I grew up. They had one in George & Mildred 70s sitcom but it seemed more for ridicule and comedic effect really. Maybe that's when they started disappearing.

I don't know if this was strictly legal but a mate of mine in 80s believed you could ride a motorbike of any engine size without a full licence if it had a sidecar. He got hold of some tiny little luggage rack thing that supposedly qualified as a side car so he could bomb round on a big 500cc thing. It was even sprung loaded so he could bank round corners.

Towing another bike seems like completely sensible behaviour by comparison

[Cupid Stuntz]

Was towed by another bike around 30 yrs ago for approx 3 miles.

Scary shit. Rope was looped a couple of times round my handlebar and the end held on to tightly.

I was told this was in case either bike got dropped or I had to bail out for some reason. Hence having the quick release option.

As others have said not something to do if you don't really really have to.

[B4bcock]

You don't see side cars anymore do you? Seemed common in 60s and 70s when I grew up. They had one in George & Mildred 70s sitcom but it seemed more for ridicule and comedic effect really. Maybe that's when they started disappearing.

There is a British firm called Watsonian Squire who have been making sidecars for over 100 years and there has been a slight resurgence in their UK sales in recent years as sidecars are viewed as being trendy in some circles.

[B4bcock]

I don't know if this was strictly legal but a mate of mine in 80s believed you could ride a motorbike of any engine size without a full licence if it had a sidecar. He got hold of some tiny little luggage rack thing that supposedly qualified as a side car so he could bomb round on a big 500cc thing. It was even sprung loaded so he could bank round corners.

There was a kid at our school back in the seventies who had a 600cc Panther with a sidecar which he rode legally.   Things have changed a lot since then.  In those days you could jump straight onto a 250cc bike on your 16th birthday as long as you displayed L plates.

[lamboman]

There is a British firm called Watsonian Squire who have been making sidecars for over 100 years and there has been a slight resurgence in their UK sales in recent years as sidecars are viewed as being trendy in some circles.

Watsonian are just down the road from me.
When I was younger people used to fit Sidewinders to bypass learner restrictions.Whole groups of riders used to have them.
I imagine they have been legislated against now.

[lamboman]

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[Thecunninglinguist]

I will have a definitive answer tomorrow. I am having a breakfast get together with a group including ex police motorcyclists and IAM motorcycle examiners/instructors. They should have chapter and verse

[ik8133]

Way back when I was sixteen my dad towed me on my moped with his car to the motorbike garage, I remember it being quite scary at the time!

[standardpostage]

I will have a definitive answer tomorrow. I am having a breakfast get together with a group including ex police motorcyclists and IAM motorcycle examiners/instructors. They should have chapter and verse

Thanks 

[Camargue]

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[Stevelondon]

My olde Lalmbretta Li150 scooter packed up and i was towed home by my dad on his BSA 650!!

That was about the scariest ride i ever had!, he just didn't appricate that the scooter could not corner and me lean with it like his bike did!

How i got back there to home in one piece and alive beats me to this day!...

You had a scooter and your dad had a 650 BSA !!!

He should have disowned you. Bad enough you being gay an all 

(It’s a joke by the way….. see…. Smiley)

[Blackpool Rock]

Watsonian are just down the road from me.
When I was younger people used to fit Sidewinders to bypass learner restrictions.Whole groups of riders used to have them.
I imagine they have been legislated against now.

I remember lads having them too as they were so desperate to have a bigger bike than a 125 but hadn't passed their test, I actually think a lot of them had failed their test and couldn't be arsed retaking it.

One lad said it was far more dangerous with the sidewinder than without it so just said fuck it and took it and the L plates off and rode illegally but as he said without it he was able to give plod the slip anyway 
The same lad was a bit of a nutter when he rode and while out on a Sunday afternoon race ride had mis judged the width of the thing when cornering and hit a wall 

[Blackpool Rock]

You had a scooter and your dad had a 650 BSA !!!

He should have disowned you. Bad enough you being gay an all 

(It’s a joke by the way….. see…. Smiley)

It's OK hid Dad beat him up for being a Mod 

[Watts.E.Dunn]

It's OK hid Dad beat him up for being a Mod 

Yes well for your info me old dad was a TT racer and severel times in my schooldays I'd come home and my mum would say your dads come off his bike again and i'd have to find an uknkown hospital somewhere in the country wihich usually meant a rail trip somewhere which i found very interesting:)

And seeing how he was almost killed several times, i thought bugger this bikes are dangerous things and was proved right after a few mishaps with the old scooter  more mocked on that cos it wasn't a GT200 model. So overall conclusion was that 2 wheels bad 4 wheels better;!...

[Thecunninglinguist]

Have checked with the various Oracles who know these things this morning and yes it is quite lawful to tow a motorcycle in an emergency with another motorcycle. Hope it helps.

[standardpostage]

Have checked with the various Oracles who know these things this morning and yes it is quite lawful to tow a motorcycle in an emergency with another motorcycle. Hope it helps.

Thanks, puts my mind at rest. Hopefully won't have to do it again 

[Gordon Bennett]

I wouldn't say towing a bike to a garage was an emergency though.... sounds more like someone being unwilling to cough up for a trailer or lorry collection doesn't it?

I'm actually struggling to think of a genuine emergency situation that necessitates the need to tow a bike given you could just wheel the thing away from any perilous or dangerous scene. Maybe I'm just being pedantic or channeling my inner traffic cop though.

[Charlie Chalk]

I wouldn't say towing a bike to a garage was an emergency though.... sounds more like someone being unwilling to cough up for a trailer or lorry collection doesn't it?

I'm actually struggling to think of a genuine emergency situation that necessitates the need to tow a bike given you could just wheel the thing away from any perilous or dangerous scene. Maybe I'm just being pedantic or channeling my inner traffic cop though.

Narrow, winding country road where you might have a series of bends and would be in danger whilst wheeling it to a safe place? Or on a country road at night?

[Blackpool Rock]

Narrow, winding country road where you might have a series of bends and would be in danger whilst wheeling it to a safe place? Or on a country road at night?

Both of which are also surely dangerous to be towed on 

I'm sure plod would take a very dim view and regardless if there was some basis in law to allow it they would look for some other technicality to nick you

[Doc Holliday]

Have checked with the various Oracles who know these things this morning and yes it is quite lawful to tow a motorcycle in an emergency with another motorcycle. Hope it helps.

Thanks for the update. I rather went down a rabbit hole googling this, as I suspect SP and others did also?  There doesn't appear to be anything that says it is lawful and equally nothing that says it is, in itself, unlawful? It seems it is certainly something many people have done, but it seems inherently dangerous and as BR says I am sure you could be charged with something else if the Police decided to. I wouldn't want to risk the Insurance status either?

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[lillythesavage]

Both of which are also surely dangerous to be towed on 

I'm sure plod would take a very dim view and regardless if there was some basis in law to allow it they would look for some other technicality to nick you

If they cba to get out of the car while on the way to Nandos, Mcd, KFC, the kebab shop. Which they did not do when I reported a kid, about 11, with an 8 inch or so knife chasing and threatening other kids, be plenty of overtime if he had stabbed one I suppose. 

[Charlie Chalk]

Both of which are also surely dangerous to be towed on 

I'm sure plod would take a very dim view and regardless if there was some basis in law to allow it they would look for some other technicality to nick you

A stationary motorbike would be more of a hazard than one being towed out of a dangerous spot, even if it is being towed by another bike. Not going to argue with your second point though.

[Charlie Chalk]

If they cba to get out of the car while on the way to Nandos, Mcd, KFC, the kebab shop. Which they did not do when I reported a kid, about 11, with an 8 inch or so knife chasing and threatening other kids, be plenty of overtime if he had stabbed one I suppose. 

You should have said the kid had insulted you on Twitter - that would have got them round mob-handed in a hurry!

[Camargue]

Thanks for the update. I rather went down a rabbit hole googling this, as I suspect SP and others did also?  There doesn't appear to be anything that says it is lawful and equally nothing that says it is, in itself, unlawful? It seems it is certainly something many people have done, but it seems inherently dangerous and as BR says I am sure you could be charged with something else if the Police decided to. I wouldn't want to risk the Insurance status either?

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Trailers drawn by motor cycles
84.—(1) Save as provided in paragraph (2), no person shall use, or cause or permit to be used, on a road a motor cycle—

(a)drawing behind it more than one trailer;
(b)drawing behind it any trailer carrying a passenger;
(c)drawing behind it a trailer with an unladen weight exceeding 254 kg;
(d)with not more than 2 wheels, without a sidecar, and with an engine capacity which does not exceed 125 cc, drawing behind it any trailer; or
(e)with not more than 2 wheels, without a sidecar and with an engine capacity exceeding 125 cc, drawing behind it any trailer unless—
(i)the trailer has an overall width not exceeding 1 m;
(ii)the distance between the rear axle of the motor cycle and the rearmost part of the trailer does not exceed 2.5 m;
(iii)the motor cycle is clearly and indelibly marked in a conspicuous and readily accessible position with its kerbside weight;
(iv)the trailer is clearly and indelibly marked in a conspicuous and readily accessible position with its unladen weight; and
(v)the laden weight of the trailer does not exceed 150 kg or two thirds of the kerbside weight of the motor cycle, whichever is the less.
(2) The provisions of paragraph (1)(b), (d) and (e) do not apply if the trailer is a broken down motorcycle and one passenger is riding it.

[berksboy]

Yep read that before and its not giving a clear yes or no.
(b)drawing behind it any trailer carrying a passenger;  But does towing a bike count as a trailer ?

[GingerNuts]

Yep read that before and its not giving a clear yes or no.
(b)drawing behind it any trailer carrying a passenger;  But does towing a bike count as a trailer ?

The bike being towed counts as a trailer as referenced in 84(2).

[Thecunninglinguist]

This would seem to say it's lawful in an emergency. (which is not defined)

(2) The provisions of paragraph (1)(b), (d) and (e) do not apply if the trailer is a broken down motorcycle and one passenger is riding it.

[berksboy]

Thanks GN so thats sorted 

[Blackpool Rock]

This would seem to say it's lawful in an emergency. (which is not defined)

(2) The provisions of paragraph (1)(b), (d) and (e) do not apply if the trailer is a broken down motorcycle and one passenger is riding it.

Yeah exactly, I can see on a single track lane with no pull in points you may get away with towing it half a mile until there was somewhere you could park the bike up or a pull in point etc to avoid causing an obstruction.
But alternatively it could be argued it was only half a mile and you could have pushed it 

Plod ain't going to accept that running out of petrol is an emergency, he also isn't going to accept a blown engine meaning the bike can't go anywhere is an emergency, call the breakdown people or local bike garage to come and pick you up.

An emergency would be classed as getting something out of the way of other traffic if it was potentially causing a danger to you or someone else
An emergency wouldn't be classed as towing it 20 miles as you didn't want to fork out to get it picked up

[Doc Holliday]

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Trailers drawn by motor cycles

(2) The provisions of paragraph (1)(b), (d) and (e) do not apply if the trailer is a broken down motorcycle and one passenger is riding it.

Thanks for that 

Section 2 seems to cover it. The only criteria appears to be that the motorcycle is 'broken down'? No detail beyond that or use of the term emergency? It still seems inherently dangerous to me and should be a last resort measure. The consequences of it going wrong on a public road are severe.