Author Topic: Strictly's First Male Couple  (Read 6009 times)

Offline Marmalade

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to appeal to the full demographic
But how much will the demographic take a hit due to the “un ballroom like” LGBT inclusions  :rolleyes:

Offline Payyourwaymate

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But how much will the demographic take a hit due to the “un ballroom like” LGBT inclusions  :rolleyes:

No idea. I don't watch the show so it does not bother me  :lol:.

Offline king tarzan

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Sad that the world has come to this.🤮😭🤮😭🤮😭
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Offline Marmalade

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Sad that the world has come to this.🤮😭🤮😭🤮😭

It could be more “inclusive”…

What about the occasional drug addict?

I mean, they’re “people too”…

All this stuff about ‘minorities’ seems limited to the trendy minorities…  :timeout:

Offline king tarzan

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It could be more “inclusive”…

What about the occasional drug addict?

I mean, they’re “people too”…

All this stuff about ‘minorities’ seems limited to the trendy minorities…  :timeout:

There's lots of morality decay brewing and surfacing..
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Online mills_and_bhuna

There's lots of morality decay brewing and surfacing..
I like to picture you as a caricature. Waffling on about morality on a punting forum is just beyond ridiculous.

Offline Marmalade

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I like to picture you as a caricature. Waffling on about morality on a punting forum is just beyond ridiculous.

Certainly not! At least some punters have standards and don’t go about in an eternally guilty haze of guilt. Sort your trip out!

Offline Marmalade

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There's lots of morality decay brewing and surfacing..

I think it’s mostly a decay of common sense.  :hi:

Offline sir wanksalot

It could be more “inclusive”…

What about the occasional drug addict?

I mean, they’re “people too”…

All this stuff about ‘minorities’ seems limited to the trendy minorities…  :timeout:

Exactly. It can only be socially acceptable "minorities" that won't upset the viewers

Offline PunterNumber69

Another benefit of the inclusivity of this programme:

BBC News - Strictly Come Dancing: How Rose Ayling-Ellis will hear the music
External Link/Members Only

It's good for us all to understand disabilities, visible and invisible, better and thus better support and interact with people with the disabilities.

Offline Thephoenix

Another benefit of the inclusivity of this programme:

BBC News - Strictly Come Dancing: How Rose Ayling-Ellis will hear the music
External Link/Members Only

It's good for us all to understand disabilities, visible and invisible, better and thus better support and interact with people with the disabilities.

I don't need Auntie BBC to teach me how to understand disabilities do you?

It's great that people with disabilities can take part as long as they're able to demonstrate a minimum level of dancing ability or potential. It's a dancing competition. Viewers are asked to vote for the best dancers each week.

Although some on here may disagree, homosexuality isn't a disability, so they don't come into that category.
Therefore they can enter the competition in the traditional way, as have other gay professional dancers and contestants since the show started.

There's no need for two men dancing together just to introduce a new gimmick, and wipe out the traditions of 60 years of ballroom dancing shows on the BBC. :unknown:

Offline PunterNumber69

I don't need Auntie BBC to teach me how to understand disabilities do you?

Although some on here may disagree, homosexuality isn't a disability, so they don't come into that category.
Therefore they can enter the competition in the traditional way, as have other gay professional dancers and contestants since the show started.
I think Auntie BBC can certainly help educate people. I find it helpful. I know that I often watch programmes about people with disabilities to try to understand them and their challenges better. I've worked with people with OCD and other conditions and learned how to support them in the workplace.

I agree that homosexuality is not a disability. However there are certains groups in our society that view people from other groups (gay people, disabled people, fat people, people of certain nationalities) in a bad light. These programmes help to open their minds to new experiences and different types of people and the backgrounds and life experiences they've had.  We might all get along a bit better if we people were open minded and understand that we're all different.

Offline Marmalade

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There's no need for two men dancing together just to introduce a new gimmick, and wipe out the traditions of 60 years of ballroom dancing shows on the BBC. :unknown:

I think this highlights that having two men dance together is indeed a gimmick.  :dash:

If you want to see two men dancing together, try a class in contemporary dance or contact improvisation. There's nothing particularly 'gay' about it – any more than two men hugging in a rugby scrum. It's just not part of ballroom dance, any more than mixed men and women in a rugby scrum.

I think Auntie BBC can certainly help educate people. I find it helpful. I know that I often watch programmes about people with disabilities to try to understand them and their challenges better. I've worked with people with OCD and other conditions and learned how to support them in the workplace.

To an extent perhaps. But I agree more strongly with your point about being with people. If you have gay friends you soon forget about them sexually as much as you should hetero men or women. With disabilities, you learn other interesting skills they have again by spending time with them.

The best dramas (and non-dramas) that involve gayness or disability are ones where that is not the main story. When it is the main thing then, unless you are turned on by it or proselytisingly empathetic towards it, it's a case of it being thrust down your throat when, as Thephoenix says, you don't need AntieBeeb to tell you not to be racist, sexist, fattist or whatever.

In such circumstances, the 'preachy' element can backfire and produce resentment over such high profiling of gays and people with disabilities. (As has been said, gayness is not a disability but some of the factors play out in the media productions the same way.)

I have enjoyed Strictly occasionally, mostly for the last episode or two. Much as it is great to see people with two left feet learn to overcome that, the main triumph is the beauty of dance. Ballroom dance happens to be designed throughout for a man and a woman. If they insist on that fucking that up then it's as if that genuine pleasure has been taken away, and yes, I would feel slightly resentful, just as I did when they introduced a trite, female Dr. Who. I'm mature enough not to take that resentment into real life but not everyone is. It's a double-edged sword and some will dislike the BBC for it. Just as some people feel more inclined to feeling racism on account of some of the extreme positions of the BLM movement (such as defunding the police).

Offline sir wanksalot

I don't need Auntie BBC to teach me how to understand disabilities do you?

It's great that people with disabilities can take part as long as they're able to demonstrate a minimum level of dancing ability or potential. It's a dancing competition. Viewers are asked to vote for the best dancers each week.

Although some on here may disagree, homosexuality isn't a disability, so they don't come into that category.
Therefore they can enter the competition in the traditional way, as have other gay professional dancers and contestants since the show started.

There's no need for two men dancing together just to introduce a new gimmick, and wipe out the traditions of 60 years of ballroom dancing shows on the BBC. :unknown:

Totally agree!

Dancing is not like a sport where male and female share the exact same goals. Ballroom dancing requires a male lead and a female who follows. That's not sexist, it's just the way it is.

Having two males changes the dynamics meaning that dances cannot be judged equally or even impartially as there will be a definite bias towards the couple from the judges because they are being "brave and courageous".

Offline Thephoenix

Totally agree!

Dancing is not like a sport where male and female share the exact same goals. Ballroom dancing requires a male lead and a female who follows. That's not sexist, it's just the way it is.

Having two males changes the dynamics meaning that dances cannot be judged equally or even impartially as there will be a definite bias towards the couple from the judges because they are being "brave and courageous".

I remember my old ballroom dancing tutor's words.. (and yes, he was gay)
 
'The beauty of ballroom and Latin Dancing is about the masculine and feminine forms intertwining and merging to create the perfect balance.'

To me, it's the Ying and the Yang that brings this style of dancing to life.
The ebb and flow of the masculine meeting the feminine in perfect balance.

For example, in the waltz, the man is there to showcase the woman by holding a strong frame for her to dance into.
In The Pasodoble,the man acts as the matador, where the lady is either the flamenco dancer or the cape showing the softness in contrast to the man's overpowering strength....(sounds like a good punt)






Offline Marmalade

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For example, in the waltz, the man is there to showcase the woman by holding a strong frame for her to dance into.
Another saying (you probably know) is, "the woman is the picture, the man is the picture frame".

It's a wonderful thing, and teaches men how to appreciate and bring out the best in the woman he is dancing with, which results in him getting what he wants from it as well – as in life, some would say. Also good for youngsters when taught at school to learn how to relate and interact with the opposite sex. (There have been successful studies on this – improve their interactive skills and their grades improved and their truancy reduced.)

It goes back to the original forms of 'courtship' dances... and even in the brothels of old Argentina where the men would try to attract the best of the high class 'ladies' (i.e. prostitutes, at the rather posh brothels) with their skills in Tango.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2021, 12:55:54 am by Marmalade »

Offline Thephoenix

Another saying (you probably know) is, "the woman is the picture, the man is the picture frame".

It's a wonderful thing, and teaches men how to appreciate and bring out the best in the woman he is dancing with, which results in him getting what he wants from it as well – as in life, some would say.

********* Also good for youngsters when taught at school to learn how to relate and interact with the opposite sex. (There have been successful studies on this – improve their interactive skills and their grades improved and their truancy reduced.)********

It goes back to the original forms of 'courtship' dances... and even in the brothels of old Argentina where the men would try to attract the best of the high class 'ladies' (i.e. prostitutes, at the rather posh brothels) with their skills in Tango.

Unfortunately, not in my case....much to my regret.

In an old traditional grammar school, where boys and girls were kept in separate buildings, the only chance to interact was at the annual school Dance.

One year, aged 14/15, we would all be herded into the main hall and given some rudimentary lessons in the waltz, military two step, and Gay Gordons.

The headmaster then asked the boys to go ahead and pick their partner for the school dance talking place a week later.
That didn't work too well as half the boys stampeded towards the gorgeous Samantha who had been fortunate in seemingly developing a huge pair of knockers two years before the other girls.

So plan b was adopted whereby two circles were formed. ...boys on the outside, girls inside.
The Gay Gordons music would start, boys intructed to walk clockwise, girls anti clockwise, and similar to musical chairs, when the music stopped, the boys would invite the girl opposite to the dance.

Of course like musical chairs, certain ungentlemanly tactics were adopted, particularly when Samantha was approaching.
The music stopped and I was almost opposite Samantha, but as I approached,  my mate Percy barged me out of the way and gave me a dead leg.

So I turned and looked up to see a girl about about 6ft 5", with an Olive Oyl like figure.
She looked pleasant and seemed pleased she'd not copped for Tubby Thomas who always had BO, acne and snail tracks down the front of his kecks.

I wasn't exactly chuffed but obligingly, with a face blushed red I invited her to the dance.

Then something I really regret to this day, I bottled out and didn't go to the dance.
I still feel the guilt, and wonder what happened to the nice girl.
Maybe she copped off with Tubby Thomas after all.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2021, 05:55:18 am by Thephoenix »

Offline Marmalade

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Anyone else think what a wonderful job Auntie Beeb is doing with all this wonderful inclusivity?
I don't just mean their fantastic appointments of External Link/Members Only who obviously know more than those 'educated slobs' on the right! Ughh! But let's not talk politics...

Take Strictly sort-of-dancing. I had a quick flick through but, dancing aside, I don't think it quite comes up to those high standards of minority inclusion. They should include all minorities. So I looked for a normal attractive young woman, a 'fit bird' that you might think, ah yes, she looks a goer/dancer, and yeah I reckoned I'd found one(!), though she's deaf, so not quite representative. I like the way the celebs y introduce themselves with "You mostly know me from..."... really? No, I dont watch "Corrie" or "Eastenders" which I'm sure are all very good, but what about a mainstream program where they speak 'proper English' -- is that so bad??

Or have they got rid of all that now...  :(

btw I think the professional dancers are great. World class. But obviously the minorities are a bigger draw which is why they get paid more.

Offline mr.bluesky

Anyone else think what a wonderful job Auntie Beeb is doing with all this wonderful inclusivity?
I don't just mean their fantastic appointments of External Link/Members Only who obviously know more than those 'educated slobs' on the right! Ughh! But let's not talk politics...

Take Strictly sort-of-dancing. I had a quick flick through but, dancing aside, I don't think it quite comes up to those high standards of minority inclusion. They should include all minorities. So I looked for a normal attractive young woman, a 'fit bird' that you might think, ah yes, she looks a goer/dancer, and yeah I reckoned I'd found one(!), though she's deaf, so not quite representative. I like the way the celebs y introduce themselves with "You mostly know me from..."... really? No, I dont watch "Corrie" or "Eastenders" which I'm sure are all very good, but what about a mainstream program where they speak 'proper English' -- is that so bad??

Or have they got rid of all that now...  :(

btw I think the professional dancers are great. World class. But obviously the minorities are a bigger draw which is why they get paid more.

I have to agree with you Marmalade about this inclusivity  and "celebrity" tag. Perhaps it's just me getting old but when I see " celebrity versions of " The chase" "Pointless" "Master chef" etc I haven't got a clue who most of them are  :unknown: As for Strictly Come dancing I never watch the programme but it was always going to be inevitable they would have same sex couples dancing together. A sign of the times we live in.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2021, 06:37:29 am by mr.bluesky »

Offline sir wanksalot

I totally understand and applaud the decision to showcase more people who represent minorities but I am certain that this still goes through the BBC acceptability filter of what they "think" audiences will react best to.

Gay women, gay men? Yes
Disabled sports people/heroes. Yes
Person with severe facial disfigurement. Not unless they are otherwise attractive
Blind people. TBC.We have a dead celeb this year so let's pencil a blind one in for next year.
Touretts syndrome sufferer. No chance as they might swear on live TV.

The point I am trying to make is that this is still very calculated by the BBC.

If we're counting some of the above as "minorities" they are still very much in the majority of that demographic. It just becomes a never ending and contrived search to FIND another category.

Offline Marmalade

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The point I am trying to make is that this is still very calculated by the BBC.

It just becomes a never ending and contrived search to FIND another category.

It would rather seem they calculated wrong. Again.

Last night’s viewing figures were the lowest ever.
Just as Dr Who’s ratings plummeted when they insisted on a female to replace the ages old male lead character.

It is good to highlight minorities in a subtle way. Having one — the deaf girl (who has first class signing, vocal abilities and top translator on hand) would be a triumph. But packing the show with ‘minorities’ until they become the majority of contestants is not. You could almost call it a disservice as some bitter, cynical person might label it a freaks show.  :thumbsdown:

Offline Marmalade

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A sign of the times we live in.
Theoretically it could change with the appointment of anti-woke warrior Nadine Dorries as Culture Secretary. What may happen though is she will get enmeshed in tricky regulatory issues that make getting things done a nightmare.*

The present government has made many noises about stamping out woke-overkill. Yet legislating for common sense may be easier to wish than to do. Michael Gove can’t do all the jobs himself goddam it!  :D



*strange thing about Dorries though is her strong RC views on abortion (anti) and other curtailing of women’s rights. I do rather feel that if officers have an ingrained shortcoming in the form of a particular religious adherence they should be public about it, in the same way as declared financial interests. In that, I respect Jacob Rees-Mogg who is at least man enough to declare which side of the slate he’s on.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2021, 06:06:20 pm by Marmalade »

Offline Thephoenix

The original well respected head judge Len Goodman said that he expected many of the older fans would stop watching with the introduction of same sex dancers. But he also pointed out that those people generally don't vote so as long as Aunty's getting the money coming in through the voting charges they'll be happy 🤔
I wouldn't be surprised if voting figures may actually increase because of an increased Gay vote. :unknown:

Offline Matrix

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When will they have a straight male couple dancing, for diversity purposes?  :lol:

Offline Marmalade

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I didn’t know he said those things though I am not surprised. Goodman for me epitomised the tradition of ballroom dancing and was the best judge they’ve had.

There would actually be a point to have a pair of male dancers dancing together though very unusual: it’s to give the follower an insight into the dynamic that the ladies have to follow in the arms of the male lead. Clearly not really suitable for Strictly and it is overshadowed and a bit pointless to have two gay fellas cavorting around with each other. To give them their due, the pair they introduced seem very entertaining but it’s all a bit ‘Graham Norton’ -ish, isn’t it, like a tarted up version of “only gay in the village” from Little Britain! Ignores the fact that a large proportion of gay men aren’t the slightest bit camp.

But it’s about entertainment, very low-brow entertainment, and with the BBC now outed for it’s left wing bias (see my earlier link) fits very nicely with the general agenda and of attracting the masses — who either will watch out of vicarious virtue-signalling sympathy, or to gawk, or, as you suggested, as they’re gay.

Maybe the ‘gay’ vote will as you suggest boost viewing figures, but it hasn’t done so yet.

I do try to see the opposite view when taking a position. I can’t support the idea based on appeal to the masses. Or otherness. That is not the BBC’s remit. The only thing I can think of is that the ‘normalisation’ might encourage young men into ballet — which is desperately short of male dancers.

Offline sir wanksalot

I totally understand and applaud the decision to showcase more people who represent minorities but I am certain that this still goes through the BBC acceptability filter of what they "think" audiences will react best to.

Gay women, gay men? Yes
Disabled sports people/heroes. Yes
Person with severe facial disfigurement. Not unless they are otherwise attractive
Blind people. TBC.We have a deaf celeb this year so let's pencil a blind one in for next year.
Touretts syndrome sufferer. No chance as they might swear on live TV.

The point I am trying to make is that this is still very calculated by the BBC.

If we're counting some of the above as "minorities" they are still very much in the majority of that demographic. It just becomes a never ending and contrived search to FIND another category.

Offline Marmalade

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When will they have a straight male couple dancing, for diversity purposes?  :lol:

I wouldn’t have any objection to that — on another show! Yet we have a show called Strictly Ballroom that verges on being nothing of the sort. Ballroom allows for a deaf woman if she can follow, a person with a prosthetic if they can dance, an ugly person, old people, and even grossly overweight people (but all would be very rare at competition level else why are none of the professionals in any of those categories??

Skin colour makes no difference and neither does sexuality. What is not ballroom in any strict sense is two men dancing together.

Offline Marmalade

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Beeb bias?

Jess Brammar appointed new executive news editor.
… former editor of Left-wing website HuffPost UK, Brammar recently tried (and failed) to erase evidence of her hard-Left sympathies by deleting more than 16,000 Twitter posts.
They included tweets from the last election campaign in which she repeatedly called Boris Johnson a liar, claimed that 'Black Brits' were 'genuinely considering leaving the UK because of the level of racism, particularly if Boris Johnson wins' and gleefully promoted 'the group of young women behind the #FCKBoris posters' on the London Underground.
Elsewhere, she has argued that the term 'woke' is a 'dogwhistle'…
On other occasions, Brammar has accused the former foreign secretary Dominic Raab of being sexually insecure on the grounds that he once said he was 'probably not' a feminist, described a shortage of home-testing sexual health kits as the 'reality of austerity Britain', endorsed the view that 'transphobia is rife in the gender-based violence sector', and so on.

Lewis Goodall, the policy editor of Newsnight, has never sought to hide his hard-Left agenda.
While studying history and politics at Oxford, he began writing opinion pieces for The Guardian, which described him as a Labour Party activist and blogger, and after graduating he worked for the Left-wing Institute for Public Policy Research.
In 2018, he wrote a book singing the praises of Jeremy Corbyn called Left for Dead? The Strange Death and Rebirth of the Labour Party.
By then, he was a political correspondent for Sky News with a reputation for using social media to mount vigorous attacks on Brexit and the Tory party.
When Boris Johnson was at the centre of a row in 2018 over his remarks likening Muslim women wearing burkas to letterboxes and bank robbers, Mr Goodall compared him to the late Tory MP Enoch Powell, and accused him of fuelling racist attacks.
'Burkagate reminds us you can say whatever you like in Britain, be rude or even prejudiced and be respected for it, so long as you're posh and powerful,' he argued, saying Johnson's remark 'legitimises the prejudices of others, further down the class food chain – it suggests that certain things which probably ought not to be alright, in fact are.
That is why I give the suggestion that there has been an increase in the numbers of attacks on women wearing the niqab in recent days absolute credibility.'
Later, when Johnson became PM and prorogued Parliament, Mr Goodall used Twitter to accuse him of 'embarrassing the Queen', which he described as 'astounding'.
He added that the Tory party was increasingly 'willing to tolerate a leader who does things/says things they never would have been willing to countenance previously just because they think he'll bring them electoral success', adding that it mimicked the 'slow nervous breakdown on the Right' in the US.
Naturally, he sailed into a job at the BBC where he continued his outspoken attacks on the Tory government, one of them last year in a cover story for the Left-wing New Statesman magazine, headlined: 'Failed: How the Government's ineptitude created a lost generation.'
A couple of weeks back, BBC bosses forced him to delete a tweet describing critics of Brammar's appointment as 'unhinged' and 'misogynistic'.

Newsnight host Emily Maitlis has had many complaints against her upheld over her extreme leftism (for brevity I won’t cite them all here.

Similarly Radio One, Nick Rotherham was in 2018 made inaugural chairman of the BBC's 'Under 30s News Panel', a committee created to help promising young journalists shape the future of its current affairs output. Last summer, he was promoted to 'senior news editor, commissioning‘.

BBC Breakfast host Naga Munchetty had to be ‘reminded of her responsibilities’ by the corporation because she ‘liked’ a series of anti-Conservative tweets after she and co-host Charlie Stayt had ridiculed then housing minister Robert Jenrick for having a Union flag and a portrait of the Queen in his office.

Many others connected with news who should be non-political in order to do their job.

But what of Strictly? Or ‘culture’?

Miranda Wayland has been appointed as the BBC’s Head of Creative Diversity. This newly created role, which reports to June Sarpong, Director of Creative Diversity. I don’t know h about her except she claimed Idris Elba's character John Luther "isn't black enough."

I don’t have much to hand on the Strictly execs, but the dominant culture seems apparent throughout. And when the Beeb have been robustly accused of left wing bias they appoint a known External Link/Members Only to head the internal enquiry. You couldn’t make it up!

Offline Matrix

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Maybe they can write Luther so he carries a ghetto blaster and raps?  :lol:

Strictly Breakdancing?

Offline king tarzan

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The original well respected head judge Len Goodman said that he expected many of the older fans would stop watching with the introduction of same sex dancers. But he also pointed out that those people generally don't vote so as long as Aunty's getting the money coming in through the voting charges they'll be happy 🤔
I wouldn't be surprised if voting figures may actually increase because of an increased Gay vote. :unknown:

Two beautiful women close dancing together goes with saying 😋😋😋👅👅👅

Two men dancing together :vomit: :vomit: :vomit: :vomit:

Simpletto
Banned reason: Misogynist who gets free bookings from agencies for pos reviews.
Banned by: daviemac

Offline Liverpool

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Two beautiful women close dancing together goes with saying 😋😋😋👅👅👅

Two men dancing together :vomit: :vomit: :vomit: :vomit:

Simpletto

So glad you're showing your homophobia again KT. Fair enough if it's not for you. It's not for me either. However I can say that without using the vomit emoji. Just childish.

Offline Marmalade

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Tarzan's post gave me a laugh...

 :lol:

I don't think it's homophobic Liverpool -- just a robust expression of preferences!

I found it quite funny when we are all discussing it so intellectually.  :D
(Don't forget that a lot gays find hetero displays of affection a bit  :vomit: fish :vomit: too!)

Online Kev40ish

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Tarzan's post gave me a laugh...

 :lol:

I don't think it's homophobic Liverpool -- just a robust expression of preferences!

I found it quite funny when we are all discussing it so intellectually.  :D
(Don't forget that a lot gays find hetero displays of affection a bit  :vomit: fish :vomit: too!)

I think it’s more about his collective previous posts on these sort of things, rather than this one in isolation..

Offline Marmalade

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I think it’s more about his collective previous posts on these sort of things, rather than this one in isolation..

possibly... and as you're a mod you probably keep an eye on such things more than i do...

Offline Marmalade

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Maybe a good point for all of us to think about the rules and exactly what is meant by homophobic in practical terms (i.e. on this board — and any input by the mods very welcome).

The rules state:
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Banter is allowed, but racist or homophobic posting will result in a ban.
In the absence of examples, I’ve taken a hint (rightly or wrongly) partly from the excellent ‘abuse’ section, which states:
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23 Abuse towards other members
Discord must be kept civil. Excessive abuse/swearing is not acceptable. "You're acting like a twat" is not excessive. However, "you're a fucking inbred cunt" is excessive and is not acceptable. Bullying will result in a ban. Abuse to the Mod or Admin Team will result in a ban.

A difference is that ‘racist/homophobic’ posting relates not just to other members but the wider world. There is a difference between feeling homophobic and expressing it in a way that could reasonably be thought to cause hurt, for instance when ‘homophobic’ slurs are directed at a specific person (“you do sound a bit gay” might be ok but “you’re a disgusting, raging fucking pooftah faggot” would not, and would incur a ban — and presumably the same if directed to the male couple in Strictly). At least I agree so far.

The word ‘homosexual’ wasn’t even invented until the 19th century, but prejudice against male on male sex was rife at different periods in history. I am against such prejudice. My own attitude is simply that I’ve never met any men that I fancy enough to fuck or be fucked by. This is a way of expressing my preferences I think without causing offence and one I recommend. (It doesn’t make me personally vomit, it simply doesn’t turn me on, and I have no objection to the presence of other cocks.)

There’s another issue and that is the perception that widespread use of certain terms is unacceptable. This is more clearly defined and with a general consensus on avoiding terms inciting hatred against persons on account of their race but less so on account of their sexual preferences. It’s a fine line, especially when gay men are allowed to use extreme terms but straight men are not (similar issue on the n word).

I think it comes down to two things: whether nastiness is intended and/or whether nastiness can reasonably be felt by the minorities so referred to.

I haven’t read all of Tarzan’s posts but my laughter at the one post was twofold. Firstly, I thought he cut through the crap (though I didn’t think that on its own it could be offensive); secondly, all gayness aside, purely on the issue of ballroom technicalities, I think it could indeed make purists want to vomit, in exactly the same way that judge Goodman might have said that lifts in the Viennese Waltz would make him want to vomit. (They are not only technically not allowed but they destroy the beauty of that particular dance, and I would join him in feeling equally strongly about such anomalies).

Most dance rule books use the words “couple” and “partner” without specifying the couple must be a man and woman. However there are numerous references to what the woman may or not wear, including such matters as jewellery and hairstyles (as some are considered inappropriate or even dangerous). This means that if male-male partners in ballroom dance are accepted, then whole rule books will need to be re-written.

I think male-male couples could be ok for dances such as salsa: but not really for ballroom. One can only get round it by saying the male partner in a couple identifies as a woman — which in the current climate of ‘fluid sexualities’ may be exactly what some groups are aiming at. I wonder if I’m allowed to put a vomit emoji against that social trend if I wish to? (though I don’t have strong feelings on it.) Or against the idea that women are not just those born with a womb? (The statement for which JK Rowling got cancelled).

I hope this opens up the discussion. We don’t want to break any laws. Neither do we want to get over-sensitive.

Offline Marmalade

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Just glancing through the CPS guidance, which is quite interesting. The challenge being to prove hostility. There’s a further section on “stirring up hatred” which is wider, but must include words or actions that are threatening. External Link/Members Only

Offline LLPunting

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Just glancing through the CPS guidance, which is quite interesting. The challenge being to prove hostility. There’s a further section on “stirring up hatred” which is wider, but must include words or actions that are threatening. External Link/Members Only

This is a much shorter post to quote than your previous, so thankyou, and it is also to the point about KT's habitual posting.  He is without doubt hostile not just infantile or "humourous" about specifically male homosexual culture including trans and TVs.  Any of the posts expressing "disgust" at 2 guys dancing together are hostile, reducing anyone else's posts about challenging the technicalities, tropes and dogma of past competitions (which have previously operated in an otherwise overtly homophobic society) to just vomit emojis is not just puerile it is the "simpletto" expression of disgust.

If it's not to one's taste but one is otherwise not opposed then there is no need to embellish one's lack of interest with various characterisations, insults and disapprovals.

« Last Edit: September 23, 2021, 01:34:46 am by LLPunting »

Offline Marmalade

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This is a much shorter post to quote than your previous, so thankyou, and it is also to the point about KT's habitual posting.  He is without doubt hostile not just infantile or "humourous" about specifically male homosexual culture including trans and TVs.  Any of the posts expressing "disgust" at 2 guys dancing together are hostile, reducing anyone else's posts about challenging the technicalities, tropes and dogma of past competitions (which have previously operated in an otherwise overtly homophobic society) to just vomit emojis is not just puerile it is the "simpletto" expression of disgust.

If it's not to one's taste but one is otherwise not opposed then there is no need to embellish one's lack of interest with various characterisations, insults and disapprovals.

I agree (though it’s up to mods) if his history supports that side, and the CPS indeed make a person’s history potential evidence. Although I’ve posted quite a bit on this thread, I don’t keep up on a lot of posts these days, just odd spurts, so I hope I’ve clarified my position, and that my response was based on the single ‘vomit’ post not as part of a history (which Kev drew to my attention and which I haven’t read.) Cheers.

Offline Thephoenix

I know there's a parallel strictly theme relating to the gorgeous female professionals, but to bring this back to OP....

So, as a keen ballroom dancer (Inc Butlins Jive Champion) :hi:
I was keen to watch the two men dancing the tango

I'm not particularly pleased with the inclusion of same sex couples, for the reasons I've explained before, however I was interested to see their performance.

I wasn't surprised to see their first dance was the tango, as in recent years there's been an increasing interest by the LBGT community in the Queer Tango Project

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I thought the dance was technically good, but lacked any kind of sizzle or emotional connection which is the soul of the dance.

Then when the dance finished, they were given a standing ovation, far exceeding the performance and worryingly more to do with the fact that it was gay rights statement.

Then the judges went completely over the top with their scores. It was obvious from some of their comments (particularly Shirley Ballas) that the scores were being influenced by their obvious endorsement of the introduction of a gay couple.

Graham Norton was quoted as saying he thought that same sex couples would muddy the waters and make it difficult for the judges, as They're not judging like for like.
It was obvious that Johannes,the professional dancer was excited to be able to choreograph the dance including changes of leading and following within the dance.
But isn't that unfair to the other dancers who have to follow the traditional format?

I admit to being a traditionalist and the tango...(particularly Argentine Tango) is my favourite.

Conventional tango is said to be the stronghold of heterosexism and machismo.
Maybe that's why it's been chosen by the gay community as a challenge to convention.

However for me I agree with the following quotes...
Gretchen Smith....'History of the Tango'........'The tango is a duel for dominance. Man against woman, machismo leading female, using weapons and lures of sexuality.'

It should simmer with smouldering sensuality!

It's not just clever dance steps.




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Offline Marmalade

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I agree with all your comments there Phoenix. Having spent plenty of time in Buenos Aires and watched the many sorts of tango I am usually left a bit uninspired by what passes as "ballroom tango". I think the judges were inexact when they said it is all about passion... it is about suppressed or barely restrained passion. It doesn't have to be -- watching old couples at a Saturday afternoon milonga it's just a carefully restrained social dance. The style on Saturday was closest to what they call "show tango" though not actually all that good. Show tango is very dramatic, the sort of thing that's done in bright lights. Original tango as you doubtless know, came from the old brothels where the men would 'tango' with the rather upmarket prossies to try and get the best ones to give in to them (as the prossies could pick and choose!) There can be an element of frustration at not being able to get close up, but mostly the sizzle is to attract the partner -- and from the lady's point of view, get the highest price. The ancient tango is rarely performed and high priced, but performed in smoky, 'smouldering' environments. Those guys on Saturday didn't smoulder, and the difference between them wasn't palpable (in the way the difference between a leader and followers should be palpable.

Very clever swapping the lead but inappropriate. Suitable more for a freestyle perhaps?

Offline Marmalade

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Here's a slightly better demonstration of two guys dancing tango together. You can just about believe that want to fuck each other.
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Offline Marmalade

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So the BBC’s Strictly Come Dancing has reached the semi final.

The characters who have got this far undoubtedly can dance.
What’s more, we now have 3 minorities represented. Gay, deaf and black. And they also are somehow indeed the best dancers.

What I don’t find remarkable is that the non-disabled, heterosexual white flat feet are not represented. Not because they have no dance ability — the majority of British people who dance do indeed happen to be white, straight, not deaf. But it wouldn’t make such a good show would it?

That it hasn’t been ‘choreographed’ that way seems to me rather unlikely.

Yet at this stage it’s a good show, nice dresses, decent dances, decent music. I have to turn the sound down when the woman judge with the screechy voice speaks, but overall I genuinely hope it helps members of those minorities. I like to think dance can be a positive influence.

Offline king tarzan

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So the BBC’s Strictly Come Dancing has reached the semi final.

The characters who have got this far undoubtedly can dance.
What’s more, we now have 3 minorities represented. Gay, deaf and black. And they also are somehow indeed the best dancers.

What I don’t find remarkable is that the non-disabled, heterosexual white flat feet are not represented. Not because they have no dance ability — the majority of British people who dance do indeed happen to be white, straight, not deaf. But it wouldn’t make such a good show would it?

That it hasn’t been ‘choreographed’ that way seems to me rather unlikely.

Yet at this stage it’s a good show, nice dresses, decent dances, decent music. I have to turn the sound down when the woman judge with the screechy voice speaks, but overall I genuinely hope it helps members of those minorities. I like to think dance can be a positive influence.

I've danced/snogged a few black hotties in the late 90's and early 2000's at clubs!!😋😋😋😋👅👅👅
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Offline Thephoenix

So the BBC’s Strictly Come Dancing has reached the semi final.

The characters who have got this far undoubtedly can dance.
What’s more, we now have 3 minorities represented. Gay, deaf and black. And they also are somehow indeed the best dancers.

What I don’t find remarkable is that the non-disabled, heterosexual white flat feet are not represented. Not because they have no dance ability — the majority of British people who dance do indeed happen to be white, straight, not deaf. But it wouldn’t make such a good show would it?

That it hasn’t been ‘choreographed’ that way seems to me rather unlikely.

Yet at this stage it’s a good show, nice dresses, decent dances, decent music. I have to turn the sound down when the woman judge with the screechy voice speaks, but overall I genuinely hope it helps members of those minorities. I like to think dance can be a positive influence.

Agreed.
Undoubtedly the best dancers have reached the semi final, although I'm dismayed (but not surprised), that the deaf girl and the gay bloke put so much emphasis on their backgrounds, and how they were representing their particular communities.
That just makes it a bit unfair on the other dancers who can't appeal for support in the same way.
I was always a bit concerned this would happen and might inevitably make the back stories more important than the dancing.

Having said that, the performances of Rose and how she's managed to reach the semi's with her disability is amazing and great credit to her partner Giovanni.
Although I've voiced my opinion about why I wasn't really in favour of Male/male couples competing, I have been really impressed by their performances.

However, being a traditionalist and long time fan of all the strictly dancing shows right back to the 1950s, I still believe there are certain dances that are best performed by a traditional male/female couple.
This was best illustrated by the beautiful waltz danced by Giovanni and Rose.
The elegant male leading the graceful lady in that beautiful dress, swirling, twirling and virtually floating across the floor was 'gorgeous darling.'

The dancing, music costumes, choreography and special effects have been a joy to watch for this old softie.
Makes me feel like putting on my old patent leather shoes and tripping the light Fandango. :dance:

Sorry, maybe got a bit carried away there. :rolleyes:



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« Last Edit: December 12, 2021, 07:33:20 am by Thephoenix »

Offline Marmalade

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Agreed.
Undoubtedly the best dancers have reached the semi final, although I'm dismayed (but not surprised), that the deaf girl and the gay bloke put so much emphasis on their backgrounds, and how they were representing their particular communities.
That just makes it a bit unfair on the other dancers who can't appeal for support in the same way.
I was always a bit concerned this would happen and might inevitably make the back stories more important than the dancing.

Having said that, the performances of Rose and how she's managed to reach the semi's with her disability is amazing and great credit to her partner Giovanni.
Although I've voiced my opinion about why I wasn't really in favour of Male/male couples competing, I have been really impressed by their performances.

However, being a traditionalist and long time fan of all the strictly dancing shows right back to the 1950s, I still believe there are certain dances that are best performed by a traditional male/female couple.
This was best illustrated by the beautiful waltz danced by Giovanni and Rose.
The elegant male leading the graceful lady in that beautiful dress, swirling, twirling and virtually floating across the floor was 'gorgeous darling.'

The dancing, music costumes, choreography and special effects have been a joy to watch for this old softie.
Makes me feel like putting on my old patent leather shoes and tripping the light Fandango. :dance:

Sorry, maybe got a bit carried away there. :rolleyes:

I think you apologise too much. I very much enjoy your comments on this subject.

The gay couple did some beautiful dances. From an LGB point of view they have made their point in spades and deserve much respect.  :hi:

I agree with your observation about dress. In recognizing the forward stride made by the gay couple some balance would also recognize that there was also a necessary step backward – no pun intended – to achieve it. I would have greatly welcomed an intelligent discussion of dance and ballroom instead of the trivia-loaded "It takes two" or whatever the weekday follow-up is called these days. Illustrations by Fred and Ginger – or – to get technical, Loie Fuller, a fairly average dancer whose fame pivoted on her innovations with costume and lighting and showed how influential they are. (The special effects in the current SB series were pretty awesome, but not much mention of them.)

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Likewise, Rose made an interesting point I thought (though apparently many viewers didn't) with her "silent dance" moment. Again, not very "ballroom" although probably not against ballroom rules? It was something that is more a feature of contemporary dance: and that first dance by the gay couple seemed purely contemporary, not a hint of ballroom!

I think the whole thing is overhyped. I could watch Fred Astaire all day, but I'd tire of any of the SB contestants, even the winners. It's a bit more subtle than a Simon Cowell show, but the winners have been extensively groomed to produce a show act. When we compare them to the talent of the professionals who, I understand, actually design many of the dances and perform them to perfection day in day out, then, and no disrespect to the celebrities, but these celebs are performing monkeys by comparison.

It is the 'grooming' I suspect that has produced the most perfectly representatively 'inclusive' finalists. Not as any grand conspiracy, at least not among those taking part, but a general woke enthusiasm, a benefit of the doubt, a hyping of their 'backgrounds', close-ups of men crying and an overlooking of mistakes in favour of the general achievement. The dedicated coaching, original selections, all have a group dynamic where the BBC might have reasonably expected the result which they now have. And it's not all bad. We do indeed have some fabulous dances to round it off.

Yet there is more to dance than the steps and the attitude, an almost indefinable essence that 'moves the soul'.  Is there any better example than Astaire's final dance from Swing Time? Or even Top Hat? He would break rules on Strictly: but he would communicate an essence that is lacking in Strictly. Rose dances her heart out, enthused by being able to communicate deafness positively. Astaire, on the other hand, had nothing to communicate but dance itself.

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Offline Chorley

The fact that this thread even started says everything about the OP's bigoted point of view. How insecure do you have to be to get offended about a same sex couple dancing on a prime time TV programme? :unknown:
And to give you a bit of context, I think Stricly's utter shite and I wouldn't waste my time watching it. But I also wouldn't whinge and moan on a punting forum about this. It just males people look like out of touch dinosaurs  :rolleyes:

Offline Marmalade

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The fact that this thread even started says everything about the OP's bigoted point of view.

I don't agree at all. Phoenix has experience of the medium and can rightly raise valid technical points about what is and what isn't ballroom. The use of costume is an important one and is covered I believe in the rules. Though the same-sex couple didn't break any, they simply were unable to maximise them. Similarly, my point about contemporary dance by definition is not ballroom dancing, or even Latin; the programme called it 'couple's choice' which I suppose can include anything,

Offline king tarzan

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The fact that this thread even started says everything about the OP's bigoted point of view. How insecure do you have to be to get offended about a same sex couple dancing on a prime time TV programme? :unknown:
And to give you a bit of context, I think Stricly's utter shite and I wouldn't waste my time watching it. But I also wouldn't whinge and moan on a punting forum about this. It just males people look like out of touch dinosaurs  :rolleyes:

I disagree... The OP has el valido pointo👍👍
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Offline Liverpool

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I disagree... The OP has el valido pointo👍👍

But you would say that, given your homophobia.

Offline RedKettle

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The fact that this thread even started says everything about the OP's bigoted point of view. How insecure do you have to be to get offended about a same sex couple dancing on a prime time TV programme? :unknown:
And to give you a bit of context, I think Stricly's utter shite and I wouldn't waste my time watching it. But I also wouldn't whinge and moan on a punting forum about this. It just males people look like out of touch dinosaurs  :rolleyes:

I disagree. I made a similar point to you at the start of this thread but then read what was said more carefully and retracted and apologised to the OP. I really do not think he is coming at this from a bad place and we need to be careful that we are not always closing down legitimate discussion by being snowflakes.