The characteristics and incomes of the top 1% (In the UK)

[Payyourwaymate]

This video is not really a report but interesting lol.

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The Ex-Banker on Cocaine Binges & £600k Bonuses | Informer

“It’s an industry that rewards psychopaths.”
 
As the global economy is potentially looking at a deep recession due to COVID-19 just after recovering from the 2008 financial crash, we hear from an ex-banker who worked in the City of London’s Square Mile from the mid-90s to 2008.
 
He lifts the veil on the sordid world of investment banking where he enjoyed thousand-pound meals, sex parties with colleagues and £600k bonuses for “pushing around bits of paper”. He believes psychopaths in suits gamed the system while damaging society in the process.

[MilleMiglia]

From a few years back, when Glencore floated:

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In addition to the CEO, two heads of section became billionaires.

[Payyourwaymate]

Confessions of a Monopolist
By Frederic C. Howe


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"Frederic Howe's Confessions of a Monopolist is the story of a man who stumbles upon the secret of power politics and the modus operandi of the financial elite. Although written 71 years ago, Howe's book is as relevant and revealing today as the day it was written in 1906. This is the saga of the fascinating lure of something for nothing, of making the other fellow pay, a universally tempting creed polished by the corporate monopolists and adopted by the demogogues of all stripes and hues to capture the commanding heights of society. In sum, Howe portrays the art of making society work for the few. The basic rules of the elitist game are simple: Achieve political influence. Get political power. All monopoly depends on legislation and politics. Without politics, there can be no monopoly. It's that simple says Frederic Howe. "

[Payyourwaymate]

Why is Working Harder Making Us Poorer?

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"Workers today are amongst the hardest worked individuals in history, while simultaneously being the most efficient.

Sure, they have traded in grueling factory floors and coal mines for air-conditioned offices so they probably don’t get quite as much sympathy as their industrial revolution contemporaries but the world today is marred by different challenges.

Hustle culture and the glorification of roles like surgeons, investment bankers, and corporate lawyers have set a precedent of on-call all the time, under the guise of professionalism or being a team player."

Expectations and key performance indicators are increasingly monitored, scrutinized, and increased year on year.

[Bogof60]

Not sure. I understand where you are going with this thread. 

The folk who fall into the heigest tax bracket pay the most tax.
The folk who fall int the lowest tax bracket pay the least tax.
The folk who are mega rich employ folk to ensure they pay only what is due
The folk who earn the least pay nothing.
Folk who have never earned anything in their lives get given enough to live on and a bit more.

Pisses folk off who are the middle man who pays the most and gets the least but when was it ever different

[Colston36]

Average household income, UK: financial year 2020

Main points

"In financial year ending (FYE) 2020 (April 2019 to March 2020), the period leading up to the coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic, median household income in the UK was £29,900, based on estimates from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) Household Finances Survey.

Between FYE 2011 and FYE 2020, median household income increased by 7%, an average of 0.8% per year, after accounting for inflation.

Growth in income of the poorest fifth of people did not keep pace with inflation, which led to the median income of the poorest fifth falling by an average of 3.8% per year between FYE 2017 and FYE 2020.

Median income of the richest fifth continued to grow steadily between FYE 2017 and FYE 2020, meaning that some measures of income inequality have increased over this period.

Median income for people living in retired households fell by an average of 1.1% between FYE 2018 and FYE 2020; this compares with 1.8% growth per year for those living in non-retired households."

Quite the difference when you compare to the top 1%.

Source is from:

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I think the growing divide between rich and poor a sad and dangerous trend. The countries that repeatedly come out top in the various happiness surveys tend to be in Scandinavia where incomes are more equal.

Defining the characteristics of the richest 1% is hard as people shift in and out of that bracket. In my best year back in 1989 when money bought a hell of a lot more I made just under half a million and lived in a big Tudor mansion.

Today I make maybe a twentieth as much, live as a lodger owning no property yet am if anything happier - but with the same loopy characteristics.

[Payyourwaymate]

I think the growing divide between rich and poor a sad and dangerous trend. The countries that repeatedly come out top in the various happiness surveys tend to be in Scandinavia where incomes are more equal.

Defining the characteristics of the richest 1% is hard as people shift in and out of that bracket. In my best year back in 1989 when money bought a hell of a lot more I made just under half a million and lived in a big Tudor mansion.

Today I make maybe a twentieth as much, live as a lodger owning no property yet am if anything happier - but with the same loopy characteristics.

Thanks for posting. Just out of curiosity, since you were able to make so much money then; where did it all go? Did you have multiple divorces or something? You do not have to answer if you do not want to.

[Colston36]

Thanks for posting. Just out of curiosity, since you were able to make so much money then; where did it all go? Did you have multiple divorces or something? You do not have to answer if you do not want to.

Good question. I have been married three times and lived with three others for a decent length of time - ie 2 to 3 years - and had one other relationship which lasted 24 years without us living together. We have a daughter I am very close to.
The one that killed me financially was my last wife. First. she could spend like nobody's business; we had five vehicles at one point. We partied all over the world - I had that kind of job. Second, she already had 5 kids, three of whom I put through private schools. Third, she slaughtered me on the divorce, still has a bloody great house in Somerset.
I don't regret a minute of it; she was as sexy as all get out, tremendous party animal. Remember her dancing on tables in Greece and Hong Kong.
And now I have very little in the way of possessions and I am very happy on a regime of a whore (or two) a week at an age when I fully expected to be dead.

[Payyourwaymate]

Good question. I have been married three times and lived with three others for a decent length of time - ie 2 to 3 years - and had one other relationship which lasted 24 years without us living together. We have a daughter I am very close to.
The one that killed me financially was my last wife. First. she could spend like nobody's business; we had five vehicles at one point. We partied all over the world - I had that kind of job. Second, she already had 5 kids, three of whom I put through private schools. Third, she slaughtered me on the divorce, still has a bloody great house in Somerset.
I don't regret a minute of it; she was as sexy as all get out, tremendous party animal. Remember her dancing on tables in Greece and Hong Kong.
And now I have very little in the way of possessions and I am very happy on a regime of a whore (or two) a week at an age when I fully expected to be dead.

Oh wow, that's quite an action packed time you seem to have gone through. Fair enough. Thanks for responding.

[Bogof60]

Must say Coulston... Respect
Makes me feel that one should not turn up at The Pearly Gates in a gleaming Ferrari
Better to stagger up to them in a clapped out Lada

[fudi_maar]

Coulston, I salute you Sir for the interesting stories you share. It gives me a little glimpse of a parallel world that some people get to enjoy - or did enjoy for a while. Nothing lasts forever, and kudos to you for being able to look back with happiness rather than bitterness.

[Bogof60]

Coulston, I salute you Sir for the interesting stories you share. It gives me a little glimpse of a parallel world that some people get to enjoy - or did enjoy for a while. Nothing lasts forever, and kudos to you for being able to look back with happiness rather than bitterness.

+1
He just articulated it better than me

[Marmalade]

Maybe you would agree that there are great lessons and experiences to be had while being rich and also great lessons and experiences to be had while being less well off?

[Colston36]

Oh wow, that's quite an action packed time you seem to have gone through. Fair enough. Thanks for responding.

I look back not in anger but with astonishment. I count myself exceptionally lucky. Mae West - one of the funniest, sexiest, cleverest women ever - said "Money doesn't buy happiness, but it'll do till something else comes along". In my case something close to bankruptcy at one point.

I never expected anything much to happen to me, but I've worked in 56 countries, met some very interesting people, had to "vanish" for a few years, made and lost millions  - and here I am, trying to decide if I want to suck a TS's cock next week or arrange a foursome with two lesbians and a retired whore.

Yesterday I spent some time playing with a four year old who lives in the same house as me and bosses me around mercilessly. I have a daughter who models in LA . I still work every day at something I like. I never, never deserved such luck. Mind you I saw two girls on Friday who were fun but not special enough to review. Into every life a little rain must piss down - but they didn't.

[mradventures]

blimey thats a full life 

[Payyourwaymate]

Pandora Papers: Secret wealth and dealings of world leaders exposed

The secret wealth and dealings of world leaders, politicians and billionaires has been exposed in one of the biggest leaks of financial documents.

Some 35 current and former leaders and more than 300 public officials are featured in the files from offshore companies, dubbed the Pandora Papers.

Some figures are facing allegations of corruption, money laundering and global tax avoidance.

But one of the biggest revelations is how prominent and wealthy people have been legally setting up companies to secretly buy property in the UK.

The documents reveal the owners of some of the 95,000 offshore firms behind the purchases.

It highlights the UK government's failure to introduce a register of offshore property owners despite repeated promises to do so, amid concerns some property buyers could be hiding money-laundering activities.

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[Payyourwaymate]

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What are the Pandora Papers?

A massive trove of private financial records shared with The Washington Post exposes vast reaches of the secretive offshore system used to hide billions of dollars from tax authorities, creditors, criminal investigators and citizens around the world.

[Payyourwaymate]

I forgot to post the source of the people who released the most recent papers.

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This will probs be in the news all week.

[lillythesavage]

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What are the Pandora Papers?

A massive trove of private financial records shared with The Washington Post exposes vast reaches of the secretive offshore system used to hide billions of dollars from tax authorities, creditors, criminal investigators and citizens around the world.

No surprise that Tony Blair is the first exposed, everything he did was to line his own pockets and those of his cronies, great Socialist that he is.

[Payyourwaymate]

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What does this report seek to address?

This report outlines the findings of detailed research into what retirement is really like. The recent “pension freedoms” have stimulated much debate about the appropriateness of retirement income products for those on the verge of retirement. But there has been little research into people’s actual spending patterns in retirement and how these relate to everyday activities. We seek to fill this gap through detailed analyses of two large datasets: 1) the Living Costs and Food Survey, which enables us to gain insights into income and expenditure patterns of the older population, and 2) the English Longitudinal Study of Ageing, which allows us to explore what people are actually doing in their daily lives and whether they are content with this. In this way, we are able to better understand the types of retirement journeys currently experienced by the older population. This has important implications for public policy and financial products and services.

Retirement expectations
• The nature of retirement has changed from a few years at the end of life, often in poverty, to a period of twenty plus years, which for many (though not all) is increasingly characterised by relative financial security. Older consumers are now a large and growing part of our economy.
• With the nature of retirement changing, expectations of a leisure-filled retirement have become broadly entrenched, though many remain concerned about whether they will be able to afford the costs of
retirement while often preferring not to think about future health and care needs that might arise.
• The recent “pension freedoms” - which provide individuals with greater flexibility in using defined contribution (DC) pension pots - support the notion that pensioners should be able to do what they want in retirement.
• But until we better understand real life retirement journeys, including the extent to which retirement realities match up to expectations, it is difficult to help individuals take advantage of the new flexibilities
in ways that meet their long term income needs.
• The stakes are high. Auto-enrolment is raising the number of people saving into a DC pot. Exploring what sorts of financial products and services this group will need in retirement will be key to the overall success of the initiative.

In reality, consumption falls and savings rise during retirement
• As people get older, they spend progressively less on consumption, regardless of their income. A household headed by someone aged 80 and over spends, on average, 43% less than a household headed by a 50 year old.
• Many older households continue saving throughout retirement. Indeed, we calculate that individuals aged 80 and over are saving, on average, around £5,870 per year.
• Lower earning households start saving in later life as consumption falls but incomes remain flat.
• While a low earning household consumes, on average, about 113.7% of their income at age 50 and about 75.7% at age 80, higher earning households consume only 67.7% of their income at age 50 and about 62.6% at age 80.

[Payyourwaymate]

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"Evidence is mounting that retirees spend less as they age, on average. The theory is that infirmity and uncertainty about the future erode people’s ability and desire to spend money on non-essentials.

Instead they accumulate savings. That’s even though most retirees do not experience a spike in healthcare costs towards the end of their lives.....

My outstanding questions were:

Could the evidence be wrong?
Could the established pattern reverse?
Even if retirees’ real spending declines on average, can individuals make practical use of this information?"

[Malvolio]

People will spend less as they get older, as they become less capable or willing to do things.  I love going to football, but do I really see myself schlepping up and down the country to away games when I'm 85?

[Payyourwaymate]

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Full discussion is in link above. Below are just some excerpts.

Average Household Savings UK
The average savings in the UK is £76,301 per household. This figure reflects all gross 'financial wealth' such as current and savings accounts, ISAs, shares, bonds, trusts and other formal financial assets.

However, most households have less savings than this, since the 'average' figure is skewed up by a small number of households with very high savings levels. For this reason it can be more useful to consider the 'median'—50% of household have less than the median amount saved, and 50% of households have more. The median household gross savings in the UK is £12,500 (up from £11,000 two years ago). But 25% of households have less than £2,100 saved.

Average savings per month UK
The typical UK household saves £180 per month—this represents the median amount saved each month. That means that 50% of households save less than £180 a month and 50% of households save more.

The average savings per month UK is £450 per household. This figure is higher than the median figure due to a small number of households with very high savings rates. For example, households in the top quintile of income save an average of £1,817 each month. In contrast, the bottom quintile of earners saves -£352 a month.


Average household savings by age UK
The age group with the highest level of average savings (i.e., financial wealth) are 60 to 64 year olds, achieving net financial wealth of £116,900 on average. However, if we look at "median" figures instead of "average" figures, then the "typical" household in this age group has just £22,500 of net financial wealth. Net financial wealth reflects savings via current and savings account, stocks, bonds, shares, trusts, ISAs, and other financial assets, less financial liabilities like unpaid credit card balances.

As discussed above, "average" figures are skewed upwards by a small proportion of households with very high levels of savings.

Household savings by age UK   Average net financial wealth   Median net financial wealth
20 to 24                                               £2,600                                        £200
25 to 29                                               £3,800                                       -£100
30 to 34                                               £14,500                                £1,000
35 to 39                                               £28,400                                £2,800
40 to 44                                               £76,100                                £5,000
45 to 49                                               £50,100                                £5,300
50 to 54                                               £59,700                                £5,100
55 to 59                                               £81,700                                £10,600
60 to 64                                               £116,900                                £22,500
65+                                                       £113,600                                £25,700
All persons                                       £73,100                                £8,000


Edit: Not sure why the table spacing is messed up. Looked fine before posting 😓😓😓😓.

[Payyourwaymate]

Another excerpt which was interesting from the above link.

How much savings should I have at 25 UK?

The average savings (net financial wealth) at 25 - 29 years old is £3,800, but the typical person in that age range has -£100. But savings amounts vary quite a bit from one household to the next.

How much savings should I have at 30 UK?

The average UK savings for 30 - 34 year olds is around £14,500 of net financial wealth (savings like current and savings accounts, stocks, bonds, etc. less financial liabilities), but the median figure is just £1,000. Savings amounts vary quite a bit from one household to the next, and average figures are higher than median (typical) figures because a small number of households have a very high level of wealth, which pulls up the average.

How much savings should I have at 40 UK?

The average savings for households where the reference person is aged 40 - 44 years old is £76,100, but the median household savings in this age group is £5,000.

How much savings should I have at 55 or 60 in the UK?

The average savings for households where the reference person is aged 55 - 59 years old is £81,700, but median savings are £10,600; for the 60 - 64 age bracket, these figures are £116,900 and £22,500, respectively.

[chrishornx]

People will spend less as they get older, as they become less capable or willing to do things.  I love going to football, but do I really see myself schlepping up and down the country to away games when I'm 85?

i am spending far more now at 64 than i ever did at 30 0r 40

[Malvolio]

I'm talking about the transition from 'young' old age (65 - 75 years) to 'old' old age (75+).

[Payyourwaymate]

External Link/Members Only.

Key statistics

1 in 10 Brits (9%) have no savings at all.

In 2020, the average person in the United Kingdom (UK) had £6,757 saved.

A third of Brits have less than £600 in savings.

41% of Brits don’t have enough savings to live for a month without income.


How much did Brits save during lockdown?

During the lockdown in 2020/2021, Brits saved an average of £54.67 per week on leisure activities. Meanwhile, those working from home saved a further £44.78 per week by working from home (which included not having to pay for commuting or work lunches).


Generational differences:

Average savings by age in the UK Out of all the generations, baby boomers (born 1946–1964) have the most saved, with an average of £9,758.54 per person.

The second-highest savings are with the silent generation (born 1928–1945), who are sitting on an average of £9,497.96 per person.

The youngest generation, gen Z (born after 1996), who have been working the shortest amount of time, have the smallest savings balance, with just £2,530.71 on average.

Those aged 22–29 are the least likely to save, with 53% of them having no savings at all.

[Pillowtalk]

Not sure. I understand where you are going with this thread. 

The folk who fall into the heigest tax bracket pay the most tax.
The folk who fall int the lowest tax bracket pay the least tax.
The folk who are mega rich employ folk to ensure they pay only what is due
The folk who earn the least pay nothing.
Folk who have never earned anything in their lives get given enough to live on and a bit more.

Pisses folk off who are the middle man who pays the most and gets the least but when was it ever different

At last, words of common sense. Thank you.

[Pillowtalk]

On the theme of tax, our analysis highlights that a substantial fraction of the top 1% earn their income in the form of partnership income and dividends, which accrue to the owners of unincorporated and incorporated businesses, respectively. Both forms of income are taxed at lower rates than salary – the result of a policy choice to tax business owners at lower rates than employees. Our estimates here suggest that almost one-in-three people in the top 1% are business owners, meaning that this policy choice provides substantial tax breaks to some of the highest-income people in society.

Have you ever actually dealt with an accountant, banker or lawyer with respect to business accounts? As a business owner, my experience is that accountants, lawyers and bankers almost regard themselves as an extension of the Inland Revenue and there is almost no leeway for underpaying tax. As for tax breaks for business owners, they are considerably less than you seem to imply. Yes, the first £2k of dividends is tax free, but after that you pay income tax at your highest marginal tax rate.

[Payyourwaymate]

Have you ever actually dealt with an accountant, banker or lawyer with respect to business accounts? As a business owner, my experience is that accountants, lawyers and bankers almost regard themselves as an extension of the Inland Revenue and there is almost no leeway for underpaying tax. As for tax breaks for business owners, they are considerably less than you seem to imply. Yes, the first £2k of dividends is tax free, but after that you pay income tax at your highest marginal tax rate.

The post you quoted is not something I have stated. I have mainly posted information on this thread. Not sure what you want me to say here.

[lamboman]

As a business owner, my experience is that accountants, lawyers and bankers almost regard themselves as an extension of the Inland Revenue and there is almost no leeway for underpaying tax.

You really need some better professional advice to be honest.

[lamboman]

Not sure. I understand where you are going with this thread. 

The folk who fall into the heigest tax bracket pay the most tax.
The folk who fall int the lowest tax bracket pay the least tax.
The folk who are mega rich employ folk to ensure they pay only what is due
The folk who earn the least pay nothing.
Folk who have never earned anything in their lives get given enough to live on and a bit more.

Pisses folk off who are the middle man who pays the most and gets the least but when was it ever different

Well said.
As for younger people having less savings now than the 60s it's because they have a whole host of things to waste money on unlike in the 60s.

[Payyourwaymate]

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"Six Reasons Why High Earners Don’t Get Rich"



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"Reggie Vanderbilt was born into a family of bitter feuds, fragile egos, and impossible expectations. Everything went downhill from there."


"Cornelius Vanderbilt left his heirs the inflation-adjusted equivalent of something like $300 billion. Within 50 years it was gone."

[Jayjay1]

I've met few people through work that are in the top 0.01 % earners and im passionate in investing so naturally kept my eyes and ears open when I see wealthy.

I feel its down to culture and wiliness to do well. Let me explain kids from wealthy family would have been advise from family or teachers ( public school) of good jobs and career plans from a young age so from young their brains are geared towards a successful path and most of them have role models that support them to do well in life and give encouragement to them to push forward on their passion.

Whereas most kids come out of uni not sure what they want to do in their career and waste years in a field they don't like and earn little and have bad spending habit.

its all in the desire, habits and knowledge

[Payyourwaymate]

I've met few people through work that are in the top 0.01 % earners and im passionate in investing so naturally kept my eyes and ears open when I see wealthy.

I feel its down to culture and wiliness to do well. Let me explain kids from wealthy family would have been advise from family or teachers ( public school) of good jobs and career plans from a young age so from young their brains are geared towards a successful path and most of them have role models that support them to do well in life and give encouragement to them to push forward on their passion.

Whereas most kids come out of uni not sure what they want to do in their career and waste years in a field they don't like and earn little and have bad spending habit.

its all in the desire, habits and knowledge

I used to think that aswell, but we cannot overlook the overwhelming advantage of coming from a wealthy family with social connections can bring. There are plenty of people from the opposite background that have the desire, knowledge and habits but do not make it due to circumstances. I think it is a bit more complex than boiling it down to desire habits and knowledge I'm afraid.