Estate Agent Sacked

[daviemac]

Sorry Davie but I'm feeling pedantic.  I understand what you are saying but 'statement' is still not the correct terminology.

A crime initially needs 'reporting' by someone and the Police will decide whether to investigate or not. (In the case of GMP it seems that has not been happening when they claim it has !!) This reporting may be anonymous.

A statement is a much more formal police procedure which once given becomes evidence and can be presented at court. People should think long and hard before agreeing to give and signing a statement. The Police will often present it as 'just procedure' but you need to be aware you may end up attending court in person somewhere down the line ... and in some rare instances forced to do so.

So have I got this right, when the police asked him what happened and noted his answers down in his notebook that is not a statement of the fact in the complaint. The police just rely on memory??

As I understand it when questioned about the offence at the time the victim gives a statement of the facts, then he is invited to attend the police station to give an official signed statement.

I think there is too much emphasis being put on being pedantic and not enough on the literal meaning of the word statement.

There is a statement as in a statement of the facts at the time of the incident, noted down by the police officer, then there is an official signed statement outlining the nature of the complaint which goes some way in deciding to prosecute and finally there is a Victim Personal Statement which is given after conviction and before sentencing.

NB
This is not an exhaustive list of the uses of the word statement.

[Scotpunter]

I'm not sure which fixed penalty offence would cover this?

It may be overkill but there has to be consequences in life for our actions. There frequently are no consequences these days.

I also think the majority of Joe Public are supportive of action being taken as evidenced by comments in this thread.

Breach of the Peace would be more sensible with a 'bound over' to behave for a set period, it also isn't a criminal charge but is just kept on your file.

Even if the public were in favour of these types of offences being brought to court, it would jam up the entire legal system for more serious offences. The CPS or Fiscal up here decide on it being in the public interest, You would have to ask is it in the public interest to use a policemans resources all day in court in case he needs to give evidence for example.

[petermisc]

To me it does seem a bit of overkill to take it to court. If it is in the public interest to convict 'crimes' like this, the Courts would be overflowing after every Saturday night. A fixed penalty fine at the very most would be far more appropriate.

You seem to dismiss this as though it were not a real 'crime' - something that you should expect to happen to you if you dare go outside on a Saturday night.  I disagree.  This was a serious crime - common assault.  Agreed that the outcome of the assault wasn't life-threatening, but it was still assault, on a public servant, because he was a public servant.

Agreed that someone treating a member of Joe Public in the same way on a Saturday night would probably get off more lightly.  However, like it or not, if you assault a public figure (be that a public servant or a common celebrity), it will attract more public and press attention, and therefore is more likely to result in a harsher deterrent penalty. 

Agreed that the penalty should take into account that there were no serious consequences.  However, equally it should take into account that potentially there could have been, for example if the victim had an underlying health condition.  This particular victim may have greater than usual anxieties about random roadside attacks, because of what happened to his father.

[Scotpunter]

So have I got this right, when the police asked him what happened and noted his answers down in his notebook that is not a statement of the fact in the complaint. The police just rely on memory??

As I understand it when questioned about the offence at the time the victim gives a statement of the facts, then he is invited to attend the police station to give an official signed statement.

I think there is too much emphasis being put on being pedantic and not enough on the literal meaning of the word statement.

There is a statement as in a statement of the facts at the time of the incident, noted down by the police officer, then there is an official signed statement outlining the nature of the complaint which goes some way in deciding to prosecute and finally there is a Victim Personal Statement which is given after conviction and before sentencing.

NB
This is not an exhaustive list of the uses of the word statement.

You are correct any statement Whitty made to the police can be used to bring a prosecution. If it came to court he would be listed as an unwilling witness and any defense would make good use of his unwillingness to pursue it further.

[Doc Holliday]

So have I got this right, when the police asked him what happened and noted his answers down in his notebook that is not a statement of the fact in the complaint. The police just rely on memory??

As I understand it when questioned about the offence at the time the victim gives a statement of the facts, then he is invited to attend the police station to give an official signed statement.

I think there is too much emphasis being put on being pedantic and not enough on the literal meaning of the word statement.

Yes as I said previously I am being pedantic, because in terms of Police procedure there is a clear legal distinction in the meaning of the word Statement. The entries in a police copybook are notes which subsequently need to be referred to in order to complete an official Police Report by the Officer(s) although notebook entries may be still be directly referred to in court.

Statements may then subsequently be compiled signed etc.

[daviemac]

Yes as I said previously I am being pedantic, because in terms of Police procedure there is a clear legal distinction in the meaning of the word Statement. The entries in a police copybook are notes which subsequently need to be referred to in order to complete an official Police Report by the Officer(s) although notebook entries may be still be directly referred to in court.

Statements may then subsequently be compiled signed etc.

I'm talking about the STATEMENT made by the victim and his interpretation of what is a statement. If I am the victim of a crime I make a statement to the police at the time, whatever I say is my statement of the facts whatever legal terminology you want to put on it. If I am asked in court and I refer to the 'statement' of facts   I made to police at the time nobody is going to tell me it wasn't a statement, they will accept it as evidence backed up by the 'official' version made at a later date.

How come I can make a 'statement' over the phone when reporting a minor incident and be given an incident number.   

To be honest I have no time for people like you who want to labour the point of legal definitions with the sole intention of derailing the thread when you know fine well what is meant by the statements made on the thread.

[Scotpunter]

Yes as I said previously I am being pedantic, because in terms of Police procedure there is a clear legal distinction in the meaning of the word Statement. The entries in a police copybook are notes which subsequently need to be referred to in order to complete an official Police Report by the Officer(s) although notebook entries may be still be directly referred to in court.

Statements may then subsequently be compiled signed etc.

I'd imagine a Police Notebook could be used as a statement. If you have ever given a statement to the Police that goes into his notebook, Your name and details go at the start and then you will be asked to sign the start and end of every page the statement takes.

You seem to dismiss this as though it were not a real 'crime' - something that you should expect to happen to you if you dare go outside on a Saturday night.  I disagree.  This was a serious crime - common assault.  Agreed that the outcome of the assault wasn't life-threatening, but it was still assault, on a public servant, because he was a public servant.

Agreed that someone treating a member of Joe Public in the same way on a Saturday night would probably get off more lightly.  However, like it or not, if you assault a public figure (be that a public servant or a common celebrity), it will attract more public and press attention, and therefore is more likely to result in a harsher deterrent penalty. 

Agreed that the penalty should take into account that there were no serious consequences.  However, equally it should take into account that potentially there could have been, for example if the victim had an underlying health condition.  This particular victim may have greater than usual anxieties about random roadside attacks, because of what happened to his father.

I'm not saying it wasn't a potential crime. But justice should be equal and proportionate no matter the victims status. This would be unlikely to receive any police attention if it was average Joe Public on a Saturday night.

[Doc Holliday]

I'd imagine a Police Notebook could be used as a statement. If you have ever given a statement to the Police that goes into his notebook, Your name and details go at the start and then you will be asked to sign the start and end of every page the statement takes.
 

My understanding is only suspects may be asked to sign a police notebook and not witnesses. Presumably you have been asked to do this as a suspect?

External Link/Members Only

[Doc Holliday]

To be honest I have no time for people like you who want to labour the point of legal definitions with the sole intention of derailing the thread when you know fine well what is meant by the statements made on the thread.

Understood 

[conrod]

The Estate Agent's mate said that he believed that he had done nothing wrong.

It just beggars belief that he doesn't know what is right and what is wrong.

[lostandfound]

The Estate Agent's mate said that he believed that he had done nothing wrong.

It just beggars belief that he doesn't know what is right and what is wrong.

Erm ... he's an estate agent ... 

[lamboman]

"There are none so blind as those who will not see"

[petermisc]

I'm not saying it wasn't a potential crime.

What do you mean, a "potential crime"?  It was an actual crime.

[Scotpunter]

My understanding is only suspects may be asked to sign a police notebook and not witnesses. Presumably you have been asked to do this as a suspect?

External Link/Members Only

The procedure may be different for England. All I can say is I have given statements both as a victim and as a suspect & both times was asked to initial or sign each page.

What do you mean, a "potential crime"?  It was an actual crime.

I hope you are never asked to serve on a jury. On the basis of what is seen on video, it is most likely a breach of the peace. However it is up to the Police & then Courts to decide if a crime has been committed.

Whichever way you look at it though, you must agree that justice should be 'blind' and that it shouldn't matter who or what the  alleged victim or perpetrator is. That is what our justice system is based on & why Lady Justice is depicted blindfolded in all the statues or images.

[timsussex]

Without a victim statement there is no crime.

then you could get away with murder ?   

Nobody was murdered, we are talking about one specific incident of common assault.

There s no requirement for ANY crime to have a victim statement

edit (now that I've caught up)

or a complaint

A police officer will investigate if they think a crime may have been committed a victim isnt even required let alone a statement

that applies to any offence including this one

to be obvious you can be stopped while driving because your number plate light isnt on - then  breathalysed etc and end up being charged with 5 or 6 offences

[daviemac]

There s no requirement for ANY crime to have a victim statement

edit (now that I've caught up)

or a complaint

A police officer will investigate if they think a crime may have been committed a victim isnt even required let alone a statement

that applies to any offence including this one

to be obvious you can be stopped while driving because your number plate light isnt on - then  breathalysed etc and end up being charged with 5 or 6 offences

FFS what the fuck is wrong with people.

Like I said to Doc I have no time for pedantic arseholes who are hell bent on derailing a thread just for the sake of it.

In a case like this, (OK so we'll try), a conviction would depend on what the victim said. (In a statement, whether verbally or in writing at the time or at the police station.)

Now I'm sure every one with an once of common sense knows that I am not referring to a situation like a murder, driving a car with a light out or any other offence that would not require a statement from a victim.

I am talking about one person putting his arm around the neck of another. If the police decided to treat all such incidents as crimes the courts would be full of married couples, groups of mates on a night out and anyone else who touched someone else.

Now leave me out of this, do not reply to me, do not use anything I have said to derail this thread any further. If anyone wants to continue being pedantic feel free to do so but do not quote me.

[timsussex]

External Link/Members Only

and another scrote "of no fixed address" has now been charged

"Officers spoke to the uninjured victim and checked his welfare, a Met Police spokesman said.

They then reviewed video footage that emerged on social media."

No mention of a complaint or statement by the victim 
 
"Police previously said that when they spoke to Prof Whitty at the time he did not wish to make any allegations."

[george r]

External Link/Members Only

and another scrote "of no fixed address" has now been charged

"Officers spoke to the uninjured victim and checked his welfare, a Met Police spokesman said.

They then reviewed video footage that emerged on social media."

No mention of a complaint or statement by the victim 
 
"Police previously said that when they spoke to Prof Whitty at the time he did not wish to make any allegations."

good both are cunts !!!

[radioman33]

He’s of “no fixed address “and his mate is an estate agent? What a good mate

[timsussex]

He’s of “no fixed address “and his mate is an estate agent? What a good mate

Perhaps he had been living in empty properties which were provided by his mate until he lost his job 

[king tarzan]

The law of knuckles...
But to many that's abhorrent..

Each to there own👊👍👌🥊

[Adoniron]

What is it about estate agents? Here's one allegedly posting racist tweets after the football
 External Link/Members Only

[Ali Katt]

What is it about estate agents? Here's one allegedly posting racist tweets after the football
 External Link/Members Only

What an idiot.

[Chorley]

What an idiot.

His account was "hacked" apparently? How convenient

[hermanmunster]

What is it about estate agents? Here's one allegedly posting racist tweets after the football
 External Link/Members Only

I remember back to an arguement I once had with an estate agent - in his own words he stated that estate agents have a similar status snd standing to accountants, lawyers and solicitors. I reminded him that you can become an estate agent with one GCSE.

[radioman33]

Estate agents who needs them,Savills charging 1000s in fees to all the posh folk for some fancy glossy wide angle photos with people like him in your home.You just need to get it on Rightmove website cheap as possible.

[hermanmunster]

I was once offered a finance director role with an estate agent chain. I could not even consider it because I wasn't prepared to admit to anyone that I worked for an estate agent.

[lillythesavage]

Estate agents who needs them,Savills charging 1000s in fees to all the posh folk for some fancy glossy wide angle photos with people like him in your home.You just need to get it on Rightmove website cheap as possible.

Apparently Savills is where this clown was a manager, so the wife said this morning.

 A few good things seem to be coming from the aftermath of these pricks actions, the ministers are getting some stick, communities are uniting in a backlash, the police and social media sites seem to be reacting, it is the main subject of every talk radio show and it is showing them up as a mindless minority that society is not going to accept.
 Maybe the proverbial straw? These mindless cunts would be lauding them if they scored, probably work, live, drink, fuck with every race in everyday life, but using race as a target of disappointment and anger over the result of a sports match is lunacy. There will always be a hardcore who will never change but the backlash from this will hopefully make some think twice.

[The0neAnd0nly]

I remember back to an arguement I once had with an estate agent - in his own words he stated that estate agents have a similar status snd standing to accountants, lawyers and solicitors. I reminded him that you can become an estate agent with one GCSE.

You can add recruitment consultants to the list of overpaid tossers who think their shit is golden 

Apologies to anyone in these roles on here, I'm sure you're all lovely people really just speaking from experience 

[king tarzan]

Apparently Savills is where this clown was a manager, so the wife said this morning.

 A few good things seem to be coming from the aftermath of these pricks actions, the ministers are getting some stick, communities are uniting in a backlash, the police and social media sites seem to be reacting, it is the main subject of every talk radio show and it is showing them up as a mindless minority that society is not going to accept.
 Maybe the proverbial straw? These mindless cunts would be lauding them if they scored, probably work, live, drink, fuck with every race in everyday life, but using race as a target of disappointment and anger over the result of a sports match is lunacy. There will always be a hardcore who will never change but the backlash from this will hopefully make some think twice.

i read somewhere BNP do not support England football team due to black players in the side, not true representation according to them.

[Ali Katt]

i read somewhere BNP do not support England football team due to black players in the side, not true representation according to them.

I don't know, but what I do know is BNP should call it a day. They have no presence in politics or society, haven't had since they lost seats in the EU.

They used to recruit outside football matches in the 80s. Makes you wonder if that was the real reason Thatcher's government spent millions getting rid of the hooligan elements.

[lillythesavage]

I don't know, but what I do know is BNP should call it a day. They have no presence in politics or society, haven't had since they lost seats in the EU.

They used to recruit outside football matches in the 80s. Makes you wonder if that was the real reason Thatcher's government spent millions getting rid of the hooligan elements.

There will always be a hardcore keeping them alive,  The ones I come across are black cab drivers in this part of the world, maybe because my work puts me among them, there is def a hardcore with outspoken views, usually East or South London born living in the suburbs.
One who lives very close to me cannot resist commenting on the company I keep when I bump into him, goes in one ear and flies out the other. They really are not worth a reaction. The less publicity and coverage they get the less their views will be heard.

[king tarzan]

There will always be a hardcore keeping them alive,  The ones I come across are black cab drivers in this part of the world, maybe because my work puts me among them, there is def a hardcore with outspoken views, usually East or South London born living in the suburbs.
One who lives very close to me cannot resist commenting on the company I keep when I bump into him, goes in one ear and flies out the other. They really are not worth a reaction. The less publicity and coverage they get the less their views will be heard.

I remember years ago I had the unfortunate situation of my company sending me somewhere by cab, and the cunt was abhorrent, it was the day of Stephen Lawrence suspects private prosecution, he had radio on, some of his remarks where very vile racist to the core, I really felt like having him stop the cab, drag him out of his cab and put him in intensive care for several weeks..
I thought to myself not worth it over this piece of shit..
I will never ever see this piece of shit ever again in about 15 mins when he drops me off back to work..
So glad to get back dropped off and see this piece of shit drive away.. cunt!

[petermisc]

I remember years ago I had the unfortunate situation of my company sending me somewhere by cab, and the cunt was abhorrent, it was the day of Stephen Lawrence suspects private prosecution, he had radio on, some of his remarks where very vile racist to the core

I used to live in a town where the majority of the cab drivers were Asian (Pakistani, etc.) and some of their views were quite disturbing.  I quickly learnt not to disagree, as some could become quite unpleasant.

I think the trouble is that cab drivers live in their own little bubble.  Passengers are highly unlikely to disagree strongly with such radical views (who wants to get dumped in the middle of nowhere), so the cabbie comes to think everyone agrees with him.

[king tarzan]

I used to live in a town where the majority of the cab drivers were Asian (Pakistani, etc.) and some of their views were quite disturbing.  I quickly learnt not to disagree, as some could become quite unpleasant.

I think the trouble is that cab drivers live in their own little bubble.  Passengers are highly unlikely to disagree strongly with such radical views (who wants to get dumped in the middle of nowhere), so the cabbie comes to think everyone agrees with him.

The cab driver was white Scottish protestant.. he was extremely proud of that and how he hated catholics amongst his long list of hates

[lillythesavage]

I used to live in a town where the majority of the cab drivers were Asian (Pakistani, etc.) and some of their views were quite disturbing.  I quickly learnt not to disagree, as some could become quite unpleasant.

I think the trouble is that cab drivers live in their own little bubble.  Passengers are highly unlikely to disagree strongly with such radical views (who wants to get dumped in the middle of nowhere), so the cabbie comes to think everyone agrees with him.

We do tend to forget, racism can come from anywhere, not just white football thugs and the BNP. Most terror attacks these days seem to come from people who choose to live here, sometimes on benefits, but hate everything about the country.

[king tarzan]

We do tend to forget, racism can come from anywhere, not just white football thugs and the BNP. Most terror attacks these days seem to come from people who choose to live here, sometimes on benefits, but hate everything about the country.

Them scum should be deported..
NEGATIVE IMMIGRATION...

Love England stay and enjoy

Hate England THEN PLEASE FUCK OFF

[radioman33]

I see the savills estate agent twat been arrested over posting his tweet,he’s saying his account got hacked that’s a convenient one,not been a good month for the estate agents ha ha.

[Markus]

Don’t the police have bigger shit to deal with? He already has been identified as an idiot and will most likely lose his job. 

[Matrix]

Don’t the police have bigger shit to deal with? He already has been identified as an idiot and will most likely lose his job.

Saves them having to do things, like investigating burglary.

[Adoniron]

Don’t the police have bigger shit to deal with? He already has been identified as an idiot and will most likely lose his job.

Was he arrested for the tweet, or for contacting them and falsely claiming his phone had been hacked?

[WARSZAWA16]

Prof. Chris Whitty: Man sentenced for St James's Park assault:

External Link/Members Only

[winkywanky]

Yes, good to see this. Suspended sentence. But a £100 fine? I'd get more than that for a minor speeding offence.

The other guy involved is contesting the charge. Bearing in mind the video evidence will be compelling, hopefully he will actually spend time inside for not only being a nasty little twat, but for denying being a nasty little twat and not putting his hands up. Also, the first guy has apologised.

[Blackpool Rock]

Yes, good to see this. Suspended sentence. But a £100 fine? I'd get more than that for a minor speeding offence.

The other guy involved is contesting the charge. Bearing in mind the video evidence will be compelling, hopefully he will actually spend time inside for not only being a nasty little twat, but for denying being a nasty little twat and not putting his hands up. Also, the first guy has apologised.

£100 fine is fuck all apart from symbology however the prick lost his job which has hopefully cost him considerably more and also made him unemployable 
Unfortunately his kind always seem to land on their cocky feet 

Likely that the guy who pleaded not guilty will get a harsher penalty if he is found guilty but agreed the video footage will be key

[winkywanky]

£100 fine is fuck all apart from symbology however the prick lost his job which has hopefully cost him considerably more and also made him unemployable 
Unfortunately his kind always seem to land on their cocky feet 

Likely that the guy who pleaded not guilty will get a harsher penalty if he is found guilty but agreed the video footage will be key

I think that both guys are clearly seen in the video, from memory? I don't think he'll be able to claim it wasn't him. He'll more likely claim what happened doesn't qualify as assault. Perhaps he has previous for such, and this wasn't on his usual scale?  In which case, throw the fucking book at him.

Attacking a defenceless, nerdy, middle-aged guy is one thing, but despite his perhaps unappealing look, both he and Vallance are the salt of the earth in the way they have contributed to the pandemic. I think Knighthoods in order when the time comes?

[Gordon Bennett]

This is well well cheeky in my view.....

BBC News - Covid: Up to one in four admitted to hospital for other reasons
External Link/Members Only

Hospitals are creaking under weight of patients with covid. However, after 15 months of pinning any possible death they could onto covid, they are now trying to dilute the situation in hospitals by talking about the other conditions these covid infected patients have.  Double standards!

The article mentions everyone admitted to hospital gets tested. The clear inference is that some poor guy who fell off a 10-storey building currently clinging to life in an induced coma, but tested positive for covid on admittance, shouldn't be classed as a "covid stat" in terms of clogging up the hospital. That's absolutely fine and reasonable by me - makes perfect sense.

However, the poor guy snuffs it tonight and fuck me.... he's chalked up as a covid death faster than you can sneeze.

Bottom line is if they applied the same common sense principles of assessment and categorisation to the tens of thousands of terminally ill geriatric folks who entered hospital on their last legs with longstanding serious life ending diseases but happened to have covid too (covid they almost certainly caught in hospital btw), they could wipe those numbers off the covd death toll at a stroke.

[daviemac]

This is well well cheeky in my view.....

BBC News - Covid: Up to one in four admitted to hospital for other reasons
External Link/Members Only

Hospitals are creaking under weight of patients with covid. However, after 15 months of pinning any possible death they could onto covid, they are now trying to dilute the situation in hospitals by talking about the other conditions these covid infected patients have.  Double standards!

The article mentions everyone admitted to hospital gets tested. The clear inference is that some poor guy who fell off a 10-storey building currently clinging to life in an induced coma, but tested positive for covid on admittance, shouldn't be classed as a "covid stat" in terms of clogging up the hospital. That's absolutely fine and reasonable by me - makes perfect sense.

However, the poor guy snuffs it tonight and fuck me.... he's chalked up as a covid death faster than you can sneeze.

Bottom line is if they applied the same common sense principles of assessment and categorisation to the tens of thousands of terminally ill geriatric folks who entered hospital on their last legs with longstanding serious life ending diseases but happened to have covid too (covid they almost certainly caught in hospital btw), they could wipe those numbers off the covd death toll at a stroke.

I think you're on the wrong thread.

[willie loman]

The cab driver was white Scottish protestant.. he was extremely proud of that and how he hated catholics amongst his long list of hates

totally credible, they are a dying breed, fortunately.

[radioman33]

After that pathetic sentence of £100 Chris Whitty should have done a John Prescott a punched that estate agent in the face when he had him in the head lock like the egg throwing incident.Claim self defence.

[Adoniron]

After that pathetic sentence of £100 Chris Whitty should have done a John Prescott a punched that estate agent in the face when he had him in the head lock like the egg throwing incident.Claim self defence.

He actually got a suspended prison sentence. The £100 was compo for Chris Whitty which he said he would donate to charity.