Greatest British Sportsman

[JontyR]

To stop the Euro's thread becoming derailed I thought this may garner some good reading fodder and interesting debate.

I suggested - in response to a question about the Scottish abilities in sport - that Andy Murray could lay a claim to the title of the thread.

In tennis terms yes but overall  I’d say plenty of other contenders

Sir Chris Hoy
Lewis Hamilton
Jonny Wilkinson
Steve Redgrave
Nick Faldo

Even Phil Taylor for chucking darts!

Obviously old school footballers as the current crop are shite 

Really, i'll have some of what you're smoking 

Many would say that Murray while good wasn't even the best UK tennis player, Fred Perry anyone 

So any other contenders?

I'm not promoting Murray, but to kick off the debate - you can point out that he has succeeded to a level which had been beyond us in a global sport for over three quarters of a century. 3 Grand slam victories and 8 other finals and becoming world number one at a time where there have been some genuine greats of the game playing, Federer, Nadal and Djokovic.

Also whilst he got some hammer for a perceived anti-english bias he did have a feeling for the sport in a way that so many professionals don't really seem to. So his 2 Olympic golds for GB (And a mixed doubles silver) and him dragging GB through to win a Davis Cup is something pretty special.

[lillythesavage]

I will bite, James Hunt, an absolute lunatic who was never going to make old bones, fearless and a fantastic driver even though he took nothing seriously.

Can you really compare Hamilton the plant eating health fanatic, with the heavy smoking, hard drinking party animal that did the same job in a car that could kill him at anytime with much better competition ?

Plenty of footballers have a claim too, Charlton brothers, Bobby Moore, Jimmy greaves, like Hunt, played when sport was a sport, not some super soft, money led, modern version.

[mr.bluesky]

Johnny Wilkinson from Rugby Union
Bradley Wiggins and Chris Hoy cycling
Joey Dunlop motor cycle racing
Stirling Moss
Bobby Moore
Bobby Charlton
Gordon Banks worlds greatest goalkeeper
Steve Redgrave - rowing
So many sports to choose from 

[Coriniumstud]

Phil (The Power) Taylor 16x World Champion

[scutty brown]

Gareth Edwards

[Thephoenix]

 What about A.P. M c Coy? (Had to spell it like that because even after about 10 attempts it would change to A P Muppet. ..try it.

Rode 4,358 winners and was champion jockey a record 20 consecutive times.

He's won every big race there is to win, and won The BBC Sports Personality Of The Year in 2010, being the first jockey to win the award.

Try again....Sir Anthony Peter Muppet OBE ... ... why's that?

Is it anything to do with a certain person's black book?

[mr.bluesky]

What about A.P. M c Coy? (Had to spell it like that because even after about 10 attempts it would change to A P Muppet. ..try it.

Rode 4,358 winners and was champion jockey a record 20 consecutive times.

He's won every big race there is to win, and won The BBC Sports Personality Of The Year in 2010, being the first jockey to win the award.

Try again....Sir Anthony Peter Muppet OBE ... ... why's that?

Is it anything to do with a certain person's black book?

 

[bugsybum]

Lennox Lewis. A complete fighter. Could fight any style and adapt to all different type's of fighters. A shout out to Joe Calzaghe as well. Both fighters beat every man they ever faced in the ring.

[mr.bluesky]

Lennox Lewis. A complete fighter. Could fight any style and adapt to all different type's of fighters. A shout out to Joe Calzaghe as well. Both fighters beat every man they ever faced in the ring.

Apart from Oliver McCall who beat Lennox Lewis the first time they fought in 1994 and Hasim Rahman who beat him in 2001.

[JontyR]

But he did beat both after.

[The0neAnd0nly]

I think we had a similar thread before and ill stick to my answer then... Ronnie O' Sullivan. Supremely talented and makes the sport look effortless.

As they often say it's one of the most mentally tough sports there is (IMO) as its just you and the cue. Anyone who's played the sport at any kind of level competitively knows how difficult it can be.

Won 6x world championships and could have won 6 more if he was in the right mind frame. His greatest challenge really was himself a cliche I know. I doubt anyone else will pick him as there are some other terrific names being mentioned   but "The Rocket" gets my vote.

[mr.bluesky]

But he did beat both after.

True , but if he beat every man he faced in the ring he would surely  have an unbeaten record like Joe Calzaghe . No question they were both great boxers. It just took Lennox Lewis 2 attempts to beat Rahman and McCall.

[Blackpool Rock]

Gave them a mention on the other thread but you can forget these 1 event wonders as to be a true "Sportsperson" you have to be good and more than 1 thing therefore my vote/s go to

Daley Thompson for the Decathlon
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Jessica Ennis for the Pentathlon
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Both of these events require competitors to be good all rounders at a lot of different events, it's actually like going back to the original "True" Olympic spirit etc

End of thread   

[Bertiebeenthere]

What about A.P. M c Coy? (Had to spell it like that because even after about 10 attempts it would change to A P Muppet. ..try it.

Rode 4,358 winners and was champion jockey a record 20 consecutive times.

He's won every big race there is to win, and won The BBC Sports Personality Of The Year in 2010, being the first jockey to win the award.

Try again....Sir Anthony Peter Muppet OBE ... ... why's that?

Is it anything to do with a certain person's black book?

Please accept my apologies for being pedantic but he didn't win the Stayers Hurdle at the Festival

[Charlie Chalk]

Gave them a mention on the other thread but you can forget these 1 event wonders as to be a true "Sportsperson" you have to be good and more than 1 thing therefore my vote/s go to

Daley Thompson for the Decathlon
External Link/Members Only

Jessica Ennis for the Pentathlon
External Link/Members Only

Both of these events require competitors to be good all rounders at a lot of different events, it's actually like going back to the original "True" Olympic spirit etc

End of thread   

…Or simply Jacks of all trades, masters of none? 

Just playing Devil’s Advocate, I have huge admiration for both.

Personally, I’d say one of the criteria would be to maximise the talent you have and to overachieve based on that level of talent. Thus someone like Ronnie O’Sullivan would be second to Stephen Henry, despite the Rocket being more naturally gifted. Ditto for the likes of George Best. Both are head and shoulders above their peers in terms of pure talent but neither translated that into the level of success their talent deserved.

It’s difficult enough to pick one from each sport, never mind an overall winner:

Motor cycling: Hailwood, Joey Dunlop, McGuinness
Motor racing: Moss, Clark, Stewart
Athletics: Daley Thompson, Jess Ennis (told you so, BR!), Coe, Cram
Cricket: Botham, Boycott (to illustrate my point!)
Tennis: Murray
Boxing: Lewis
Football & Rugby I feel are too partisan for objective discussion.

All of whom competed in my lifetime and thus ignore the greats of the past whose exploits weren’t captured on film and who therefore are at a disadvantage in a discussion like this.

[Jumping Jack Flash]

I think winning consecutive gold medals at 5 consecutive Olympic Games puts Sir Steve Redgrave at the top of my list. That’s a phenomenal achievement.

His mate Matthew Pinsent wasn’t too bad either!

[shiptonlad]

I am 100 per cent behind the nominations for Daley Thompson and Jessica Ennis Hill also Sir Steve Redgrave. I would add John Charles.

[Chorley]

I will bite, James Hunt, an absolute lunatic who was never going to make old bones, fearless and a fantastic driver even though he took nothing seriously.

Can you really compare Hamilton the plant eating health fanatic, with the heavy smoking, hard drinking party animal that did the same job in a car that could kill him at anytime with much better competition ?

Plenty of footballers have a claim too, Charlton brothers, Bobby Moore, Jimmy greaves, like Hunt, played when sport was a sport, not some super soft, money led, modern version.

Similarly Colin McRae, a complete genuis/slash lunatic who's whole rally career was based on driving completely flat out everywhere, which resulted in either epic victories-often with half his car missing- or epic crashes. Had a tragic and somewhat controversial end with the helicopter crash but is still revered and regarded as one of the greatest rally drivers of all time.

Re Hamilton-as a driver he's incredibly talented and one of the greatest of all time.By the time he retires he could well be the greratest. As a person, IMHO he's a petulant, virtue -signalling bellend.

[The0neAnd0nly]

Personally, I’d say one of the criteria would be to maximise the talent you have and to overachieve based on that level of talent. Thus someone like Ronnie O’Sullivan would be second to Stephen Henry, despite the Rocket being more naturally gifted. Ditto for the likes of George Best. Both are head and shoulders above their peers in terms of pure talent but neither translated that into the level of success their talent deserved.

Fair point CC like you said everyone has different definitions and attributes they look for individually 👍

The only thing I'd add about Ronnie is the naturally talented thing isnt as big as people make out. Hes been practising snooker 10 hours a day for about 30 years and hes said himself it's all down to graft

Jessica Ennis.... yes please. Sheffield born and bred and a fellow Blade hot as hell to boot. Here is a pic just coz.... I'd pay £200 to cover that stomach in baby gravy

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[mikecee]

What about A.P. M c Coy? (Had to spell it like that because even after about 10 attempts it would change to A P Muppet. ..try it.

Rode 4,358 winners and was champion jockey a record 20 consecutive times.

He's won every big race there is to win, and won The BBC Sports Personality Of The Year in 2010, being the first jockey to win the award.

Try again....Sir Anthony Peter Muppet OBE ... ... why's that?

Is it anything to do with a certain person's black book?

Great shout but what about the legend that is Lester Piggott?  First winner in 1948, last winner in 1994, both at Haydock Park,  9 derby wins amongst 30 classic winners.

[timsussex]

John Surtees  - world champ on 2 wheels and 4 - Unique

[Pillowtalk]

Lester Piggott.

[mr.bluesky]

John Surtees  - world champ on 2 wheels and 4 - Unique

  an achievement never likely to be repeated

[JontyR]

There are interesting aspects to this..how do you judge a career that is curtailed or impacted by injury. In terms of jockeys then you could quote Sir Gordon Richards but he had to retire due to injury (maybe with modern medicine he could have continued)

Ian Botham's career can be split into two halves statistically pre and post back injury which are widely different. Also he played pro-football.

Good call on John Charles earlier, could play centre half or centre forward to world class level.

Wally Hammond possibly for cricket. Had the misfortune to be a contemporary of 'the Don' and to lose so many years to the war. Also was believed to have had the potential have had a very successful football career if he had wished. 

[Blackpool Rock]

Similarly Colin McRae, a complete genuis/slash lunatic who's whole rally career was based on driving completely flat out everywhere, which resulted in either epic victories-often with half his car missing- or epic crashes. Had a tragic and somewhat controversial end with the helicopter crash but is still revered and regarded as one of the greatest rally drivers of all time.

Re Hamilton-as a driver he's incredibly talented and one of the greatest of all time.By the time he retires he could well be the greratest. As a person, IMHO he's a petulant, virtue -signalling bellend.

I think McRae ended up trading on the Colin McCrash nickname in the end however I did see a documentary about him and they analysed the statistics for a lot of drivers in terms of miles driven per crash and there were drivers with far worse records than him.
I think the thing that stood out with McRae is that his flat out no nonsense driving style meant that if anything did go wrong then his crashes tended to be big and spectacular 

[Stevelondon]

Could possibly have a new thread dedicated to individual sports.
It’s always going to be difficult to compare the achievements of past heroes to those who are competing now.

An instance……. The best football TEAM……. I ever had the pleasure of watching was the Brazilian side who took the 1970 crown. Simply majestic.
But would they cope in today’s game. ?

Motor racing. Surely the greatest driver NEVER to have won the F1 title has to be Stirling. Some would argue he was possibly the greatest driver full stop.
As for the term sportsman/woman/person.
Might go to Stirling again.
He lost the driving title by one point one year, because he intervened with officials to exonerate rival Mike Hawthorn who’d pushed his stalled car off the track. (Stirling had won four GP’s that year to Hawthorn’s one win).

Who would do that these days ?

[Locallad1]

Geoff Boycott. 100th century at Headingley.

[mr.bluesky]

Could possibly have a new thread dedicated to individual sports.
It’s always going to be difficult to compare the achievements of past heroes to those who are competing now.

An instance……. The best football TEAM……. I ever had the pleasure of watching was the Brazilian side who took the 1970 crown. Simply majestic.
But would they cope in today’s game. ?

Motor racing. Surely the greatest driver NEVER to have won the F1 title has to be Stirling. Some would argue he was possibly the greatest driver full stop.
As for the term sportsman/woman/person.
Might go to Stirling again.
He lost the driving title by one point one year, because he intervened with officials to exonerate rival Mike Hawthorn who’d pushed his stalled car off the track. (Stirling had won four GP’s that year to Hawthorn’s one win).

Who would do that these days ?

Have to agree with you on both counts. Brazil 1970 team simply awesome. Destroyed Italy in the final. The only team that could nearly live up to them were England until it all went tits up against Germany.  Stirling Moss a great driver and true sportsman 

[Thephoenix]

We've got to give Eddie The Eagle a mention.

Obviously not the greatest, but surely the greatest loser.

For pure endeavour, guts and true British spirit, he is the only Brit since 1928 to compete in the Winter Olympics ski jump competition.
Yes, he finished last in both the 70m and 90m jumps in 1988......which made him even more famous.

PS can anyone explain why I can't type the name of the champion jockey whose initials are A P .
His name automatically changes to Muppet as shown in my previous post..try it.
Maybe a mod can explain?





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[GreyDave]

Daley Thompson for the Decathlon
External Link/Members Only

Not just the Greatist but really nice bloke to ( luckily to of seen him at a few car events years ago polite and fun with all who harased him for a selfie and autograph ,, yep I did  )

 

[Blackpool Rock]

We've got to give Eddie The Eagle a mention.

Obviously not the greatest, but surely the greatest loser.

For pure endeavour, guts and true British spirit, he is the only Brit since 1928 to compete in the Winter Olympics ski jump competition.
Yes, he finished last in both the 70m and 90m jumps in 1988......which made him even more famous.

PS can anyone explain why I can't type the name of the champion jockey whose initials are A P .
His name automatically changes to Muppet as shown in my previous post..try it.
Maybe a mod can explain?





Hidden Image/Members Only

My guess is that there is an auto amend like there is for Piers Organ (with the M at the front but actually Organ probably works too  ) which amends to Twat.

In this case it will relate to the freeloading twat with the same last name but George as his 1st name 

[mr.bluesky]

We've got to give Eddie The Eagle a mention.

Obviously not the greatest, but surely the greatest loser.

For pure endeavour, guts and true British spirit, he is the only Brit since 1928 to compete in the Winter Olympics ski jump competition.
Yes, he finished last in both the 70m and 90m jumps in 1988......which made him even more famous.

PS can anyone explain why I can't type the name of the champion jockey whose initials are A P .
His name automatically changes to Muppet as shown in my previous post..try it.
Maybe a mod can explain?





Hidden Image/Members Only

A P Muppet . Same problem for me    . I think our phone / computer thinks this is the word you want to use  Same when you type in the word Axxxxxx  A M A Z O N

[Blackpool Rock]

Could possibly have a new thread dedicated to individual sports.
It’s always going to be difficult to compare the achievements of past heroes to those who are competing now.

An instance……. The best football TEAM……. I ever had the pleasure of watching was the Brazilian side who took the 1970 crown. Simply majestic.
But would they cope in today’s game. ?

Motor racing. Surely the greatest driver NEVER to have won the F1 title has to be Stirling. Some would argue he was possibly the greatest driver full stop.
As for the term sportsman/woman/person.
Might go to Stirling again.
He lost the driving title by one point one year, because he intervened with officials to exonerate rival Mike Hawthorn who’d pushed his stalled car off the track. (Stirling had won four GP’s that year to Hawthorn’s one win).

Who would do that these days ?

Yeah Sir Stirling was from an age where honour; sportmanship and fair play were almost more important than winning and I can say with almost complete certainty that it wouldn't happen today.

I always thought that tag of best driver to never win F1 was a bit unfair and must surely have pissed him off over the years, personally I always thought he won a moral F1 title and that's a rarer thing to have than the actual title 

[george r]

bobby charlton..

[scutty brown]

Motor racing. Surely the greatest driver NEVER to have won the F1 title has to be Stirling. Some would argue he was possibly the greatest driver full stop.
As for the term sportsman/woman/person.
Might go to Stirling again.
He lost the driving title by one point one year, because he intervened with officials to exonerate rival Mike Hawthorn who’d pushed his stalled car off the track. (Stirling had won four GP’s that year to Hawthorn’s one win).

Who would do that these days ?

Once met a little old lady who turned out to have been a WWII aircraft delivery pilot.......
After the war she was one of the few female sports and formula racers in the UK - alongside the likes of Hill, Moss, Stewart. Her view was Jim Clark was far ahead of the others in ability

[lamboman]

Similarly Colin McRae, a complete genuis/slash lunatic who's whole rally career was based on driving completely flat out everywhere, which resulted in either epic victories-often with half his car missing- or epic crashes. Had a tragic and somewhat controversial end with the helicopter crash but is still revered and regarded as one of the greatest rally drivers of all time.

Re Hamilton-as a driver he's incredibly talented and one of the greatest of all time.By the time he retires he could well be the greratest. As a person, IMHO he's a petulant, virtue -signalling bellend.

McRae is the only WC in motorsport I've had any dealings with that I considered a bit of a tit and he was grossly negligent and reckless.
Agree about Lewis by a mile the best driver but a complete bell end.
For me it would be our Nige a driver that really did come from nothing(not pretend to) to become an icon through sheer hard work,determination and bloody mindedness.

[Chorley]

McRae is the only WC in motorsport I've had any dealings with that I considered a bit of a tit and he was grossly negligent and reckless.
Agree about Lewis by a mile the best driver but a complete bell end.
For me it would be our Nige a driver that really did come from nothing(not pretend to) to become an icon through sheer hard work,determination and bloody mindedness.

Care to expand on how and why you thouht he was reckless and negligent and how you knew him?

[Chorley]

McRae is the only WC in motorsport I've had any dealings with that I considered a bit of a tit and he was grossly negligent and reckless.
Agree about Lewis by a mile the best driver but a complete bell end.
For me it would be our Nige a driver that really did come from nothing(not pretend to) to become an icon through sheer hard work,determination and bloody mindedness.

Regarding pretending to comefrom nothing I presume you're refering to Hamilton, who always goes on about how he dragged himself up from "The ghetto of Stevenage" when in reality he lived in Tewin, where the average house price over 1 million pounds.  Twat! 

[Thephoenix]

My guess is that there is an auto amend like there is for Piers Organ (with the M at the front but actually Organ probably works too  ) which amends to Twat.

In this case it will relate to the freeloading twat with the same last name but George as his 1st name 

That's what I thought. The infamous guide which would probably also auto amend so I won't bother

[chrishornx]

Well chaps you are all wrong 

I put to you a man that got a 147 break at snooker, Quadruple Blue at Cambridge ( Football, cricket, lawn tennis and real tennis) and was a scratch golfer

He went on to get  Gold and Silver medals at the Olympics for Tennis, won the doubles at Wimbledon, made a Century at Lords against the MCC then Captained the Davis cup team. In football he played for Chelsea before he  Captained Manchester City to second place in the Football league and then captained the England national team (professional) and played for England at Amateur level as well

he also beat Charlie Chaplin at table tennis  - using a butter knife instead of a bat, he fought for his nation at Gallipoli and on the western front in the Great War and had a successful business career as a member of the ICI board

he achieved all this as a heavy smoker !!

I rest my particular case  and take my hat off to Max Woosnam,  our greatest sportsman 

Oh and there is a book about him titled ' The unknown story of Britain's greatest sportsman '     

[JontyR]

That's what I thought. The infamous guide which would probably also auto amend so I won't bother

It might be about Star Trek, you can't type the name PointyEaredWanker either.

[JontyR]

Well chaps you are all wrong 

I put to you a man that got a 147 break at snooker, Quadruple Blue at Cambridge ( Football, cricket, lawn tennis and real tennis) and was a scratch golfer

He went on to get  Gold and Silver medals at the Olympics for Tennis, won the doubles at Wimbledon, made a Century at Lords against the MCC then Captained the Davis cup team. In football he played for Chelsea before he  Captained Manchester City to second place in the Football league and then captained the England national team (professional) and played for England at Amateur level as well

he also beat Charlie Chaplin at table tennis  - using a butter knife instead of a bat, he fought for his nation at Gallipoli and on the western front in the Great War and had a successful business career as a member of the ICI board

he achieved all this as a heavy smoker !!

I rest my particular case  and take my hat off to Max Woosnam,  our greatest sportsman 

Oh and there is a book about him titled ' The unknown story of Britain's greatest sportsman '     

Great story but also reminiscent of CB Fry... 30,000 first class runs, 26 test matches - captain in 6, 3 oxford blues (missed out on a fourth due to injury), equalled the world long jump record,  also competed in shot putter, hammer thrower and ice skater. Capped once by England at football he also appeared in an FA Cup final (And final replay).

And supposedly was proposed to become King of Albania! His party trick was to twist and jump onto a mantlepiece whilst wearing full evening dress.

[chrishornx]

fair shout - you should have mentioned him earlier

far more of an achievement than a bloke sat in a car or one world cup medal

[Blackpool Rock]

Well chaps you are all wrong 

I put to you a man that got a 147 break at snooker, Quadruple Blue at Cambridge ( Football, cricket, lawn tennis and real tennis) and was a scratch golfer

He went on to get  Gold and Silver medals at the Olympics for Tennis, won the doubles at Wimbledon, made a Century at Lords against the MCC then Captained the Davis cup team. In football he played for Chelsea before he  Captained Manchester City to second place in the Football league and then captained the England national team (professional) and played for England at Amateur level as well

he also beat Charlie Chaplin at table tennis  - using a butter knife instead of a bat, he fought for his nation at Gallipoli and on the western front in the Great War and had a successful business career as a member of the ICI board

he achieved all this as a heavy smoker !!

I rest my particular case  and take my hat off to Max Woosnam,  our greatest sportsman 

Oh and there is a book about him titled ' The unknown story of Britain's greatest sportsman '     

But was he a true "All Rounder"   
I guess a lot of this was back before people were professional sportspeople in the same way that we see these days, some people are just generally very competent and can turn their hand to a lot of different things and a lot of different sports, lot's of footballers for instance are also good at golf and other ball sports

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[chrishornx]

But was he a true "All Rounder"   

Yes he was

[berksboy]

Bob Fitzimmons , who some say ? Hes one of only 2 men to have been undisputed World boxing champion at 3 of the 8 classic weight divisions , Middleweight,Lightheavyweight and Heavywight ( the lightest ever at 165lbs ) It was Fitzimmons who cme out with "Bigger they are , the harder they fall"

[lamboman]

Care to expand on how and why you thouht he was reckless and negligent and how you knew him?

I was introduced to him as I was riding at a test day and he was trying a bike out,a mutual sponsor introduced us.
He came across as a bit of a prick sadly.
As for being reckless I think killing himself and 3 others in a helicopter when he didn't even have a license covers that.

[Pedalwall]

What about A.P. M c Coy?

Not sure AP Not allowedwould thank you for calling him the Greatest BRITISH Sportsman. He's Irish!!!

[Thephoenix]

Not sure AP Muppet would thank you for calling him the Greatest BRITISH Sportsman. He's Irish!!!

Northern Ireland

[Razor Boy]

Dennis Compton.
He played cricket for Middlesex and England ( 78 Tests) whilst also playing football as a winger for England as well as winning the league in 1948 and the FA Cup in 1950 with The Arsenal. Unbelievable.