Another reason not to trust the Tesla autopilot

[scutty brown]

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[RedKettle]

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It is always going to be a challenge.

However there are millions of stupid things done by human drivers every day. At least with autonomous systems there will be an update after each one that will stop it happening again in all such systems/vehicles.  That does not happen with human drivers.

[Blackpool Rock]

Just had a look and can't find it but there was a clip in the UK (Not a Tesla) with some guy driving on the motorway while his wife was asleep in the passenger seat.
He drove up behind a lorry transporting lorry cabs on the trailer which were facing backwards and shouted "Ahhh" so when his wife woke up all she saw was the front of a lorry and thought they were going to crash, cruel but funny as fuck if it's not you 

[FLYING BLUE]

It is always going to be a challenge.

However there are millions of stupid things done by human drivers every day. At least with autonomous systems there will be an update after each one that will stop it happening again in all such systems/vehicles.  That does not happen with human drivers.

My car has a full 'self driving' capability (not a Tesla and I think it's better than a Tesla but then, I am biased) which I tend to use on motorways when the traffic is moving well and, there's not too much of it about.

Today, I have just driven up the M5, M42 & M1 and witnessed at least 7 stupidly idiotic driving actions all of which were dangerous, including the old tail-gaiting then swerving into the middle lane, foot to the floor and back into the outside lane barely inches in front of the lead car who was doing around 77mph anyway.
Today, I've had white van man & SR driver about a foot from my rear end and this makes me feel very pressured even though I was, at that time, doing 80mph - my car will do 0-60 in a little under 4 seconds & has the power to leave them behind in a cloud of exhaust fumes but, that's not the point, and it's not why I bought that particular car - if I accelerate to get away from them (it's not always easy to pull in) I will shift from 70mph to 95mph in less than 3 seconds - and then it's me driving dangerously and, me getting 6 points if I am caught.

These days, I prefer to drive at a steady 65-70mph on motorways but it's often just not possible.

Well, that was a bit of a rant - sorry

[Stevelondon]

 .     I think you got it wrong if I’m guessing correctly. Your car won’t leave a cloud of exhaust fumes innit 

I think I’m a fairly good driver but we all make the odd mistake every now and then.
But some drivers actually practice bad driving. They have too otherwise they wouldn’t be so good at it.

I’m not battery powered yet but I will be. Won’t be a Tesla (as good as they are) because quite honestly I find them soulless. I like being in my motor because of not only it’s visuals outside, but it’s inners too.
German, engine hangs out the back if you must know, with a T on the rear. I’d say I could take the guy above me if it came to one of those motorway dashes 😂
But I would say that wouldn’t I.

But times move on and electric it will be. New Audi looks lovely but I think I’ll probably stick with the same make. I’m betting it will make me an even better driver.
Shhhhhhh!!!

[FLYING BLUE]

.    I think you got it wrong if I’m guessing correctly. Your car won’t leave a cloud of exhaust fumes innit 

I think I’m a fairly good driver but we all make the odd mistake every now and then.
But some drivers actually practice bad driving. They have too otherwise they wouldn’t be so good at it.

I’m not battery powered yet but I will be. Won’t be a Tesla (as good as they are) because quite honestly I find them soulless. I like being in my motor because of not only it’s visuals outside, but it’s inners too.
German, engine hangs out the back if you must know, with a T on the rear. I’d say I could take the guy above me if it came to one of those motorway dashes 😂
But I would say that wouldn’t I.

But times move on and electric it will be. New Audi looks lovely but I think I’ll probably stick with the same make. I’m betting it will make me an even better driver.
Shhhhhhh!!!

Depends which one I am driving (but that's just showing off)

[RedKettle]

My car has a full 'self driving' capability (not a Tesla and I think it's better than a Tesla but then, I am biased) which I tend to use on motorways when the traffic is moving well and, there's not too much of it about.

Today, I have just driven up the M5, M42 & M1 and witnessed at least 7 stupidly idiotic driving actions all of which were dangerous, including the old tail-gaiting then swerving into the middle lane, foot to the floor and back into the outside lane barely inches in front of the lead car who was doing around 77mph anyway.
Today, I've had white van man & SR driver about a foot from my rear end and this makes me feel very pressured even though I was, at that time, doing 80mph - my car will do 0-60 in a little under 4 seconds & has the power to leave them behind in a cloud of exhaust fumes but, that's not the point, and it's not why I bought that particular car - if I accelerate to get away from them (it's not always easy to pull in) I will shift from 70mph to 95mph in less than 3 seconds - and then it's me driving dangerously and, me getting 6 points if I am caught.

These days, I prefer to drive at a steady 65-70mph on motorways but it's often just not possible.

Well, that was a bit of a rant - sorry

So much bad driving around, in some ways I almost welcome the idea of computers taking over the driving - although as a control freak I am sure I would actually hate it.

Try going out on a bike and you see drivers at their worse!  You ride along in a perfectly legal way and are likely to get abuse from drivers who do not know the law about how cyclists are supposed to ride.    I am also a driver so yes I know many cyclists are not perfect either - before a shit ton of abuse lands!!

[lamboman]

Driverless cars are no doubt pushed by the car industry for profit as is most of their lobbying.
I'd have to say from some of the autonomous features on a car I own we seem a million miles from totally driverless cars,however no doubt they would reduce accidents.
How that sits with insurance companies I'm not sure.

[Blackpool Rock]

So much bad driving around, in some ways I almost welcome the idea of computers taking over the driving - although as a control freak I am sure I would actually hate it.

Try going out on a bike and you see drivers at their worse!  You ride along in a perfectly legal way and are likely to get abuse from drivers who do not know the law about how cyclists are supposed to ride.    I am also a driver so yes I know many cyclists are not perfect either - before a shit ton of abuse lands!!

I'm also a cyclist and driver and have seen some dick head stuff done by both but it's fucking scary when you're on a bike and some twat in a car overtakes you then immediately turns left to the point you have to do an emergency stop 

When i'm in my car I always give bikes a wide berth and when i'm on my bike I always assume the car hasn't seen me, you're exceptionally vulnerable on a bike and i'd rather be wrong than dead 

[lamboman]

I'm also a cyclist and driver and have seen some dick head stuff done by both but it's fucking scary when you're on a bike and some twat in a car overtakes you then immediately turns left to the point you have to do an emergency stop 

When i'm in my car I always give bikes a wide berth and when i'm on my bike I always assume the car hasn't seen me, you're exceptionally vulnerable on a bike and i'd rather be wrong than dead 

I'm also a cyclcist and the way we are treated on the roads in general is awful and in stark contrast to the continent.

[lostandfound]

Interesting. Musk is the ultimate bullshitter and lies and misleads as he lives and breathes. And everyone who is not a fanboy echo chamber for his every utterance and has paid attention knows Tesla's claimed range, and performance and so called "Full Self Driving" are a crock of shit. He does not need to exaggerate so much - but cannot help himself - model 3 and Y are well designed and if they learn how to manufacture them consistently and make them reliable and repairable ...

[Stevelondon]

Depends which one I am driving (but that's just showing off)

Oh you old show off you 

Your not one of those,
“Of course I’ve got two cars. What am I going to drive when one of them is being washed” 

[FLYING BLUE]

Oh you old show off you 

Your not one of those,
“Of course I’ve got two cars. What am I going to drive when one of them is being washed” 

Actually, since you mention it 

[lillythesavage]

Top spec KIA cars have had self driving capabilities for years, the dash tells you to put hands back on wheel after a few seconds, it is extremely scary and no idea why you would want to use it if you like driving or can drive. 
The 2 VW golfs I have now have adaptive cruise control and it is equally scary to me, a seasoned driver with a license to drive anything.

Oh for the days when you would go for a drive for fun, to burn off the frustrations of a bad day, to get the kids asleep or just because you want to drive aimlessly anywhere and stay where you end up, in a fast RWD manual car.

Driving today is a mare with clowns who think the gadgetry makes them fool proof, very few actually know how to drive a car.

[Rondonumbanine9]

Interesting. Musk is the ultimate bullshitter and lies and misleads as he lives and breathes. And everyone who is not a fanboy echo chamber for his every utterance and has paid attention knows Tesla's claimed range, and performance and so called "Full Self Driving" are a crock of shit. He does not need to exaggerate so much - but cannot help himself - model 3 and Y are well designed and if they learn how to manufacture them consistently and make them reliable and repairable ...

Wholeheartedly agree
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[PunterNumber69]

I don't really want auto-pilot.

I drive because I enjoy driving. I don't think I'd enjoy sitting in a car while a computer drives it.

[lillythesavage]

I don't really want auto-pilot.

I drive because I enjoy driving. I don't think I'd enjoy sitting in a car while a computer drives it.

Enjoying driving is something I still manage to do, though it is getting harder, if you enjoy driving you will hate any form of interference, I barely use cruise control, but have tried them all and it is scary feeling a car go round a bend or brake for you on it,s own, fine in very slow moving traffic in one lane, but at 70 mph just scary.

[PepeMAGA]

I've never driven a self drive, but have driven cars that had driver assist like lane control and nearly crashed as a result. There may be a significant difference in how both work though.
My other concern is the likely hood of glitches. Everything electronic does it at some point and doesn't always recognise its not functioning normally.

[RedKettle]

My other concern is the likely hood of glitches. Everything electronic does it at some point and doesn't always recognise its not functioning normally.

Whereas humans work perfectly all the time..............

[PepeMAGA]

Whereas humans work perfectly all the time..............

I haven't had an accident yet. If I relied on driver assist I would have

[Blackpool Rock]

I haven't had an accident yet. If I relied on driver assist I would have

How do you know 
There's no way you can prove that either way 

[wilbers]

To be fair, he can prove the first part of that statement, just not the second part.

[RedKettle]

I haven't had an accident yet. If I relied on driver assist I would have

So if you not having an accident is evidence against self driving cars does that mean every accident on the roads is evidence for them?

Individual driver experiences are not relevant, one way or the other. The test has to be around macro numbers, eg overall will the roads be safer and more efficient with self driving cars? Sure a self drive system will screw up at some point, just like humans do. However I suspect eventually they will be far safer than us.

How we get from where we are now to that point I have no idea and I suspect it will take a fuck of a long time. Decades not years is my suspicion.

[lostandfound]

IMO you can know if not overriding driving assistance tech would have resulted in an accident. Hasn't happened to me but I can see that the autonomous tech on my car cannot always be relied upon. Hasn't caused an an accident but sometimes it reaches a point where it cannot continue and switches off.

This kind of thing can be a problem because some people think the tech is more reliable than it is. Also, people become accustomed to the tech just working and when it does not they are not alert and do not respond to a threatening situation in a timely fashion and this is the real danger at the moment and until the tech mature.

Tesla / Musk really do not help. Musk has been teasing FSD for 5 years now, and people / morons out there believe it already works.

[PepeMAGA]

So if you not having an accident is evidence against self driving cars does that mean every accident on the roads is evidence for them?

Individual driver experiences are not relevant, one way or the other. The test has to be around macro numbers, eg overall will the roads be safer and more efficient with self driving cars? Sure a self drive system will screw up at some point, just like humans do. However I suspect eventually they will be far safer than us.

How we get from where we are now to that point I have no idea and I suspect it will take a fuck of a long time. Decades not years is my suspicion.

I've had instances of the car steering me off the road and literally having to wrench it back on to avoid going into the verge. note this is on country roads where it cant recognise the lines.
going back to my original post I don't know how different a self drive system is compared to more basic driver assistance.
but I do know I have never had a piece of electronic equipment that hasn't glitched and they are running more simpler programs than driving a car.

[Marmalade]

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