2 Hand delivered letters from bailiffs :-(

[standardpostage]

 Had 2 hand delivered letters from bailiffs 

One of my children who does not live at home, and has not for a few years, got fined for not having a valid ticket on a train.
They have not paid the fine. It has now reached about £700 because of fees etc.

They gave my address, even though they do not live with me. My child is over 21 years of age.

Should I be worried ?

[Pete123]

I'd  make sure they are genuine
It could be a fraud
There's a lot of fraudulent stuff going on at the moment

[daviemac]

I'd  make sure they are genuine
It could be a fraud
There's a lot of fraudulent stuff going on at the moment

Mate, go back to hiding under the table with your tin foil hat on.   

[Ghost89]

Don’t use any contact details on the letters. Make your own enquiries. Check that the firm is legitimate. Contact the railway company themselves and see if they have a record of the incident. As it’s not in your name they may be limited what they can tell you. Contact your son and see what he has to say. Pay nothing at the moment as I’m sure that if the fine was legitimate you’d have heard long before it got to £700.

[lamboman]

There's a lot of fraudulent stuff going on at the moment

Yes your posts for starters.
OP if they are not in relation to yourself then don't worry but do address them.

[Paris69]

Had 2 hand delivered letters from bailiffs 

One of my children who does not live at home, and has not for a few years, got fined for not having a valid ticket on a train.
They have not paid the fine. It has now reached about £700 because of fees etc.

They gave my address, even though they do not live with me. My child is over 21 years of age.

Should I be worried ?

No.
You're not responsible for your 21 year old's debt.


They wont give you any details as they aren't allowed to; but...
Ring the Company up, and tell them this person doesn't reside at your address and you have no idea where they do reside.
Tell them you do not have contact with your son in any form.
Tell them to take your address details from their database and to desist in sending you mail.

Follow up with an email and ask for them to respond accordingly to your request

[Bigwilts]

Don’t ignore them

External Link/Members Only

[Doc Holliday]

Don’t ignore them

External Link/Members Only

Yes but he is not the alleged debtor his son is.

[Lou2019]

Don’t use any contact details on the letters. Make your own enquiries. Check that the firm is legitimate. Contact the railway company themselves and see if they have a record of the incident. As it’s not in your name they may be limited what they can tell you. Contact your son and see what he has to say. Pay nothing at the moment as I’m sure that if the fine was legitimate you’d have heard long before it got to £700.

Good advice  I would  definitely check the details on the letter like you suggest, I’m always suspicious with all the scams that are going around that seem to get worse on a daily basis.

[Doc Holliday]

Had 2 hand delivered letters from bailiffs 

One of my children who does not live at home, and has not for a few years, got fined for not having a valid ticket on a train.
They have not paid the fine. It has now reached about £700 because of fees etc.

They gave my address, even though they do not live with me. My child is over 21 years of age.

Should I be worried ?

Surely your onwards course of action is all dependent on your 'relationship' with your son?

[Ghost89]

Forgot to mention the most important thing to ease your mind that has already been mentioned. You are not responsible for your son’s fine. If the situation is above board, bailiffs have no power to seize anything or require payment from you. Obviously if you want to pay it they’ll take it. The only time you would be responsible for payment on anything is if you were a guarantor on a loan.

[Jonestown]

Yes but he is not the alleged debtor his son is.

Surely its better they find out his son doesn't live there before they break his door down to gain access, rather than afterwards.

[lamboman]

Yes but he is not the alleged debtor his son is.

The problem is these companies are not great at listening to facts so it's worth pointing them out concisely to them.
I once had a parking fine from an airport,this went all the way to court before their solicitors spotted the license plate they had was one digit out from mine despite me repeatedely pointing this out.

[Paris69]

This isn't complicated stuff..... see my post / No.5


Ignore all the shit about scams etc etc etc.. You're giving them no info, just getting you/your address taking out of the equation.

It's their job to track down your son and deal with as is appropriate......
If he has nothing/£ they aint getting anything from him.
And the bailiff's aint gonna 'smash down your door anytime soon or ever'....

You can either deal with this in one call...or drag it on with input and advice on here.

[standardpostage]

Thanks for all replies, appreciated 

Will contact them with next letter from them.

Original letters sent back, telling them, person not living at my address.

Problem shared is problem halved as they say.

[daviemac]

Surely its better they find out his son doesn't live there before they break his door down to gain access, rather than afterwards.

Not even high court enforcement officers can do that and normal bailiffs have less power.  Forced entry can only be made with a court order and they are only issued for things like court fines or tax debts.

[Ghost89]

Not even high court enforcement officers can do that and normal bailiffs have less power.  Forced entry can only be made with a court order and they are only issued for things like court fines or tax debts.

Indeed. If your in the habit of leaving doors unlocked, get into the habit of locking them as bailiffs can make peaceful entry however. This is assuming that they are genuine in the first place.

[Doc Holliday]

Indeed. If your in the habit of leaving doors unlocked, get into the habit of locking them as bailiffs can make peaceful entry however.

I'm pretty sure that only applies to commercial property. They cannot enter a residential property without your permission?

EDIT No I am wrong they can if you are not on the premises and you leave it unlocked.

Also this

"The bailiff could have the right to force entry to your home or business if they’re collecting:

•unpaid magistrates court fines, for example if you were given a fine for not paying your TV licence
•tax debts for HM Revenue and Customs, for example if you owe income tax

They’ll need to show you proof of what you owe and a 'warrant' or a document called a ‘writ’ from a court. Check any documents are signed and in date and have your correct name and address.

They aren't allowed to break down your door - they have to use 'reasonable force'. This means they'll have to come back with a locksmith who will unlock the door"

[tynetunnel]

It seems as though the OP has received excellent advice regarding his wayward “son” so I have nothing to add in that regard.

But I’m amazed at this. The OP clearly (and deliberately I’m sure) didn’t give any clue as to whether this is a son, daughter or any of a number of other ways people can be described these days! Literally nothing, and I know cos I’ve read it over several times before committing this with the “Post” button!!

An assumption was made and perpetrated on throughout the thread that the errant offspring is a ‘son’. This says a lot about stereotyping 

[scutty brown]

join railforums.co.uk and ask for advice in this forum board
External Link/Members Only

they see this kind of shit all the time

However I strongly suspect these are court bailiffs chasing an unpaid fine - not bailiffs acting for the rail company as they don't work that way. Which almost certainly means a court summons was sent to the house and presumably ignored.
If your child can prove the documents were never received and if he acts quickly enough he may be able to get the case reset, but it depends on the circumstances and time is very very limited

ask the chaps at railforums

[smiths]

A Magistrates court bailiff will have more power than a civil court bailiff, so a court can appoint them to come round following failure to pay Council Tax for example which is a criminal offence with a max penalty of up to 3 months in prison unless its changed. The council will have given a number of chances to pay them or sort out a repayment agreement usually. They then go to court and get a liability order the cost of which gets added on top of the council tax owed. If still no payment or agreement is made bailiffs may be sent round to recover goods to the value of what is owed. With civil debts its often a debt collector the company that says you owe them money employs and they have no legal powers but can send you letters or knock on your door and say you owe money and ask for a doorstep payment, or to make a payment agreement. A trick they sometimes use is to send you a Solicitors letter on headed paper, that Solicitor may not actually be a real Solicitor, always check to see if they are or not. This is where county court judgements against you that could affect your credit rating occur IF the company decide to go down that route. Some companies will try to perservere for a long time in getting a payment arrangement but its sometimes the case soon after that's been agreed they sell the debt on to another company whose view may be different.

Those Magistrate court bailiffs have to use reasonable force so they cant just batter your front door down but they could as said above get a locksmith to let them in, the cost of which gets added to what you owe as does what the bailiff costs. Unless you are going to do a disappearing act its just delaying the inevitable if you know you do owe the money making what you owe increase more.

With HMRC and customs my understanding is they have a lot of power to recover money, as do the DWP. With Housing Benefit paid by a council if they accidentally paid an overpayment and you are a tenant the council have the power to recover that overpayment off the landlord by taking it from the HB claim of another tenant of the same landlord. In that case the landlord cant legally say the second tenant is in arrears of rent. Don't just bury your head in the sand with debts is my advice, IF you know you do owe the debt, and even if you know you don't seek advice from Citizen Advice or other independent debt organisations, or even better a qualified Solicitor but they may not be able to advise you under legal aid for free. Some though run half a day a week free consultation surgeries where its first come first served, BUT I assume that may not be happening during lockdown but I don't know.

In the case like the OPs as long as he didn't act as a guarantor for his son in any legal way then as his son is an adult he isn't responsible directly for any debts. But if the son lived at the same address as dad then their is a hassle factor possible plus the possibility of credit problems on the address. Basically son could give dads address a bad name when dad is trying to get a loan later on. Hopefully it could get sorted out but as I said there may be a hassle factor.

[Ghost89]

It seems as though the OP has received excellent advice regarding his wayward “son” so I have nothing to add in that regard.

But I’m amazed at this. The OP clearly (and deliberately I’m sure) didn’t give any clue as to whether this is a son, daughter or any of a number of other ways people can be described these days! Literally nothing, and I know cos I’ve read it over several times before committing this with the “Post” button!!

An assumption was made and perpetrated on throughout the thread that the errant offspring is a ‘son’. This says a lot about stereotyping 

That will be me to blame for that mistake. It wasn’t intended. For some reason when I read it quickly I thought I saw a mention of Son. Having read it again that is not the case.

[myothernameis]

Had 2 hand delivered letters from bailiffs 

One of my children who does not live at home, and has not for a few years, got fined for not having a valid ticket on a train.
They have not paid the fine. It has now reached about £700 because of fees etc.

They gave my address, even though they do not live with me. My child is over 21 years of age.

Should I be worried ?

Easiest way to deal with this, and get the bailiffs of your back, is to give them, your children's address, but also at the same time, tell your children this.  Tell them they legally have to deal with this, and the longer it goes on, the more it will cost them


Before this goes to the high court, and high court bailiffs become involved, best to get it sorted, as the high court bailiffs, will have the right to enter your house, if they gain entry, and then begin to seize assest

[Rochelle]

Easiest way to deal with this, and get the bailiffs of your back, is to give them, your children's address, but also at the same time, tell your children this.  Tell them they legally have to deal with this, and the longer it goes on, the more it will cost them


Before this goes to the high court, and high court bailiffs become involved, best to get it sorted, as the high court bailiffs, will have the right to enter your house, if they gain entry, and then begin to seize assest

No need to give them the address. Simply state that he/she doesn't live with him, and he doesn't know where his child lives.

[smiths]

No need to give them the address. Simply state that he/she doesn't live with him, and he's not heard anything.

I would just say my son is an adult and this is nothing to do with me as he doesn't live with me. I am under no legal obligation to be helpful to the Bailiff. However as I posted above if they did live at the same address the Bailiff comes to then there could be a hassle factor involved.

I would in any case advise my son to sort the debt out IF he does owe it and I would pay it off most likely, with the agreement he isn't so stupid again and comes to me before racking new debts up. But agreeing to do that and what he might do in the future might be two different things.

[daviemac]

Easiest way to deal with this, and get the bailiffs of your back, is to give them, your children's address, but also at the same time, tell your children this.  Tell them they legally have to deal with this, and the longer it goes on, the more it will cost them


Before this goes to the high court, and high court bailiffs become involved, best to get it sorted, as the high court bailiffs, will have the right to enter your house, if they gain entry, and then begin to seize assest

The only time any bailiff, including high court enforcement, have a right to enter your house for a civil debt is if you let them in or they can make peaceful entry through an unlocked door.

[Mothball15]

I did not know this forum does legal advice (kinda off).

[scutty brown]

The only time any bailiff, including high court enforcement, have a right to enter your house for a civil debt is if you let them in or they can make peaceful entry through an unlocked door.

This won't be a civil dept.
This  will be a criminal fine for non-payment or similar

[Lou2019]

I did not know this forum does legal advice (kinda off).

It’s a one stop shop hun 

[daviemac]

This won't be a civil dept.
This  will be a criminal fine for non-payment or similar

It depends, if they were given a penalty fare notice and failed to pay that and it was taken to court then it is a civil matter. If they were charged and fined by a magistrates court then it is a criminal matter.

Both can use bailiffs but different criteria applies.

[cotton]

It depends, if they were given a penalty fare notice and failed to pay that and it was taken to court then it is a civil matter. If they were charged and fined by a magistrates court then it is a criminal matter.

Both can use bailiffs but different criteria applies.

I once got caught fare dodging on the railway coming out of ilford stn , early 2010s.  I got issued a nip from the rail company. I investigated the implications online and found rail faredodging convictions actually count as criminal convictions , they are significant unlike other things. I visit the USA and it would comprimise this getting an esta visa for example. So anyway i rung the rail company up from the info on the letter and ended up paying £50 to settle it out of court.
Aside from this i would say generally Davie is correct about the civil and non civil powers of bailifs and debt collection , its just that the thing with the rail ticket offences is that it is criminal and as such is liable to incur court fines aswell.
We dont know what the nature of the fines the OP talks about are do we , are they court fines or are they just numbers made up by a civil bailif in his caravan 
But yeh as Davie says civil bailif fines arnt a concern , they just go on your credit record.
I would regard court fines , and anything dvla or tax related as being significant.
No offence Davie , this is correct info as far as i know it that fare dodging is a criminal offence.
Edit - im now reading the OP as it may have been an on board train issued fine which may be a completely different case to what happened to me which was fare evasion and being taken to court for a criminal offence , so if thats the case disregard what i said as it may not apply 

[daviemac]

I once got caught fare dodging on the railway coming out of ilford stn , early 2010s. 

Below is how they recover the debt if it was a penalty fare notice.
 
External Link/Members Only  Section 12 page 8.

For a court fine the information is here. -

External Link/Members Only

[Chorley]

My rule of thumb is the debt/fine comes from local or national government or any organisation that has significant government involvement-such as TOC's- then pay up or potentially face looking at massive fines/criminal record/prison time. 

[cotton]

Below is how they recover the debt if it was a penalty fare notice.
 
External Link/Members Only  Section 12 page 8.

For a court fine the information is here. -

External Link/Members Only

Yeh thats interesting , thanks.
Obviously theres different offences with different consequences from just getting a penalty fare notice if your found without a ticket to getting prosecuted for the criminal charge of fare evasion like i was.
As far as penalty fares goes like you say its "Recovery of penalty fare as a civil debt " 

[GorillaWarfare]

Thanks for all replies, appreciated 

Will contact them with next letter from them.

Original letters sent back, telling them, person not living at my address.

Problem shared is problem halved as they say.

Probably is best to be a bit more proactive than that. I don't know which rail company the fine was with but it may be best to contact them over the phone to inform them that your child no longer lives at your address. Your choice whether you tell them their new address or not, you're under no obligation to help a train company find your child's new address, although they might try and make life harder for you if you don't.

There's systems in place for falsifying details otherwise you could give train companies false addresses when fare jumping and that would be that. The unlucky sod at the address you gave would be stuck with a fine.

[petermisc]

There is a lot of missing info here.  If the OP's child had given the OP's address at the outset, then the OP would have received communications from the train company, court, etc long before it got to the stage of the bailiffs.  Did the OP receive any letters addressed to the child, and if so, what did he do with them?

I am also a bit confused about the hand delivered letters.  Does the OP just mean the bailiffs personally posted them through his letter box?  The standard procedure when issuing something like this is to ask for the named person.  If you are not the named person, you simply say so. 

Is the OP sure that his child committed fare evasion?  Could it be that someone with the same or similar name has given a false address, and the bailiffs have wrongly traced to the OP's address?

If the OP is certain that his child did it, and then dumped the shit at his doorstep, then my reaction would be to pass it straight back.  Give the bailiffs the child's current address, if known, or at least be as helpful as he can in helping the bailiffs locate the child.

The bottom line is that if the OP's child won't sort their mess out, then the OP has got to be proactive in getting the bailiffs off his back. Things like this need to be sorted, they just get steadily worse if not dealt with.  Always keep a copy of anything like a bailiff's letter, and your response.  Just posting it back "not known at this address" is highly unlikely to make the problem go away.  If the OP is obstructive or unhelpful, it will just make it look to the bailiffs as though he is hiding something.  He needs to be careful that the debt doesn't get linked to him or his address, which could cause all sorts of problems in the future with anything requiring a credit check.

[petermisc]

Probably is best to be a bit more proactive than that. I don't know which rail company the fine was with but it may be best to contact them over the phone to inform them that your child no longer lives at your address. Your choice whether you tell them their new address or not, you're under no obligation to help a train company find your child's new address, although they might try and make life harder for you if you don't.

No point in contacting the train company now, the time for dealing with them has long passed.  They have passed it into the hands of the courts and bailiffs, and it is them that the OP needs to deal with.

[standardpostage]

Once again, thanks for all advice, to members 

For reasons of discretion and confidentiality, I did not disclose whether male of female.

Lessens chance of ID for all concerned.


Cheers.

[JontyR]

No point in contacting the train company now, the time for dealing with them has long passed.  They have passed it into the hands of the courts and bailiffs, and it is them that the OP needs to deal with.

That's if they are bailiffs and not a debt handling agency.

I agree with every word of the higher up post though. This isn't going to go away - not on it's own anyway. Some proactive steps have to be taken to address the situation and at least mitigate the impacts as much as possible - which may be a lot. Especially if you are seeking to help resolve the situation.

[Blackpool Rock]

There is a lot of missing info here.  If the OP's child had given the OP's address at the outset, then the OP would have received communications from the train company, court, etc long before it got to the stage of the bailiffs.  Did the OP receive any letters addressed to the child, and if so, what did he do with them?

I am also a bit confused about the hand delivered letters.  Does the OP just mean the bailiffs personally posted them through his letter box?  The standard procedure when issuing something like this is to ask for the named person.  If you are not the named person, you simply say so. 

Is the OP sure that his child committed fare evasion?  Could it be that someone with the same or similar name has given a false address, and the bailiffs have wrongly traced to the OP's address?

If the OP is certain that his child did it, and then dumped the shit at his doorstep, then my reaction would be to pass it straight back.  Give the bailiffs the child's current address, if known, or at least be as helpful as he can in helping the bailiffs locate the child.

The bottom line is that if the OP's child won't sort their mess out, then the OP has got to be proactive in getting the bailiffs off his back. Things like this need to be sorted, they just get steadily worse if not dealt with.  Always keep a copy of anything like a bailiff's letter, and your response.  Just posting it back "not known at this address" is highly unlikely to make the problem go away.  If the OP is obstructive or unhelpful, it will just make it look to the bailiffs as though he is hiding something.  He needs to be careful that the debt doesn't get linked to him or his address, which could cause all sorts of problems in the future with anything requiring a credit check.

Yes it could be that someone has falsely given the OP's childs name & address, I did hear of someone who did this about 35 years ago when stopped by the police.
Alternatively it could be the OP's child who has given his old home address as the name; DOB would be known to them and the old address may still have shown up against their name (don't know if name / address is checked at the point of being caught).

I don't expect the OP to confirm this but logically he isn't currently in contact with the offender otherwise he would have simply tackled them about it

[cotton]

I am also a bit confused about the hand delivered letters.  Does the OP just mean the bailiffs personally posted them through his letter box?  The standard procedure when issuing something like this is to ask for the named person.  If you are not the named person, you simply say so. 

Civil debt collectors/bailiffs knock and then if theres no reply just put stuff thru the door, sometimes they dont even knok.

Is the OP sure that his child committed fare evasion?  Could it be that someone with the same or similar name has given a false address, and the bailiffs have wrongly traced to the OP's address?

One of the glaring loopholes with railway ticket inspectors was that you could simply give completely false details, obviously not the case if there are police in attendance however.

[standardpostage]

Yes, it was my grown up, and left home child, that got on a train without a valid ticket.

They mistakenly thought that they could get away with it.

There was just one tall & large man, who came in a black van, with ENFORCEMENT written on the side in white letters.
I told him "that person does not live here" he said " I don't believe you" and went away.

The second letter, was just found in the letter box, delivered when no one was at home.

[winkywanky]

I'd  make sure they are genuine
It could be a fraud
There's a lot of fraudulent stuff going on at the moment

These would be official letters on headed (probably court) paper, and they were hand delivered by Bailiffs, the first thing they do is show their accreditation. Almost certainly it would pe possible to check online too, and I should think there would be a relevant Gov.UK web address for exactly that, within the letters.

You've mentioned before about possible paranoia on your part, and your posts all over these boards exhibit that perfectly. I would suggest either you stop smoking what's currently in your roll-ups before you do any more damage to your grey matter, or perhaps seek medical advice (or even both).

[winkywanky]

Yes, it was my grown up, and left home child, that got on a train without a valid ticket.

They mistakenly thought that they could get away with it.

There was just one tall & large man, who came in a black van, with ENFORCEMENT written on the side in white letters.
I told him "that person does not live here" he said " I don't believe you" and went away.

The second letter, was just found in the letter box, delivered when no one was at home.

Really sorry to hear this SP, apart from anything else it must be quite distressing for you to find that your son has not only wilfully avoided paying the fine, but also seemingly offloaded it onto you  .

I have no idea of the relationship you have with your son (and it's none of my business) but if it were me I'd be inclined to:

1. Contact your son to speak to him and hear his side of the story.
2. Regardless of the whys and wherefores of the above, inform him that if he doesn't commit to resloving the issue himself then you will inform the appropriate authorities that he no longer lives with you, and also you will furnish them with his current address (assuming you know it).

In amongst that there will obviously be the discussion of whether or not he has the wherewithal to pay the fine, and if he does not, whether you are willing to help him out with this.

And of course you would also point out to him that for him to delay further will probably increase the amount owed (pay for bailiffs, additional court proceedings etc) and simply get him deeper into the legal shit, which would stay with him for the rest of his life.

I suspect you have some difficult discussions ahead, good luck with them.

[winkywanky]

PS I have no idea whatsoever of the legal details of any of this, and whether you yourself are necessarily implicated as the homeowner of where he used to live.

I would simply go on the principle that it's never a good idea to hope these things will just go away if you leave them, they never do of course, and they just cause more emotional grief as well as the financial implications.

If he doesn't know already, try to impress this upon your son  .

[smiths]

Yes, it was my grown up, and left home child, that got on a train without a valid ticket.

They mistakenly thought that they could get away with it.

There was just one tall & large man, who came in a black van, with ENFORCEMENT written on the side in white letters.
I told him "that person does not live here" he said " I don't believe you" and went away.

The second letter, was just found in the letter box, delivered when no one was at home.

So if you didn't tell them they lived at your address which you clearly didn't they got info SOMEWHERE that they do or at least did. That's their starting point, the bloke saying he doesn't believe you makes no odds to the law. You are not in anyway responsible for this matter. And if they don't live with you now my advice is let them know that. If they then choose not to believe you and hassle you more call the Police and say they are harassing you. Hopefully then the Police would say the blokes son/daughter really doesn't live at this address now so you are wasting your time. But who knows if they would say that or not. But harassment is a crime and that's what this is if they continued to come round especially when they don't live with you.

Also by telling them they don't live at your address it would hopefully get your address off their system. I assume the letter you now has court details on it which you can check, not just a letter from the debt company itself. Because if you haven't got any court info this may just be a debt collector not a bailiff. And a debt collector has no legal powers, they can knock on your door, ring you, write to you and take you to court though.

[smiths]

These would be official letters on headed (probably court) paper, and they were hand delivered by Bailiffs, the first thing they do is show their accreditation. Almost certainly it would pe possible to check online too, and I should think there would be a relevant Gov.UK web address for exactly that, within the letters.

You've mentioned before about possible paranoia on your part, and your posts all over these boards exhibit that perfectly. I would suggest either you stop smoking what's currently in your roll-ups before you do any more damage to your grey matter, or perhaps seek medical advice (or even both).

Yes its crucial to check the credentials of this bloke that came round and any letters, make sure it IS from a court appointed Bailiff and not just some chancer debt collector. But in any case he or the company he works for need to know the son/daughter doesn't live at the address. Do Bailiffs drive vans with enforcement written on them, not the ones I have ever seen, but that doesn't mean none do obviously. Its the kind of thing a debt collector might do though as they may want to embarrass the person they are coming to see into agreeing to pay up, or the neighbours may find out. In fact some debt collectors purposely mention the neighbours finding out debts are owed as a tactic to get money paid to them, especially doorstep payments which my advice is never pay a debt collector.

[winkywanky]

Yes its crucial to check the credentials of this bloke that came round and any letters, make sure it IS from a court appointed Bailiff and not just some chancer debt collector. But in any case he or the company he works for need to know the son/daughter doesn't live at the address. Do Bailiffs drive vans with enforcement written on them, not the ones I have ever seen, but that doesn't mean none do obviously. Its the kind of thing a debt collector might do though as they may want to embarrass the person they are coming to see into agreeing to pay up, or the neighbours may find out. In fact some debt collectors purposely mention the neighbours finding out debts are owed as a tactic to get money paid to them, especially doorstep payments which my advice is never pay a debt collector.

Funny how they never portray themselves like that on daytime TV! 

[yandex]

Yes, it was my grown up, and left home child, that got on a train without a valid ticket.

In that case, this is their mess to sort. Personally I wouldn't do anything other than tell your errant rule breaker to sort it out in a specific time frame and that you will be giving their details to the debt collectors.

Plenty of stories out there about the endless problems this sort of thing can cause. Your offspring is an adult, time to grow up.

[contentguy]

Funny how they never portray themselves like that on daytime TV! 

But the takeaway message from those TV shows is to sort it, because bailiffs charge their quarry for everything they do in pursuing them.

That attempted saving on a rail fare could end up costing thousands.