Sabine Schmitz RIP

[Blackpool Rock]

Just seen that Sabine Schmitz has died at only 51, didn't realise but she had cancer for a few years.
Watching her drive a transit van round the Nürburgring in under 10 minutes was very impressive 

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[mr.bluesky]

For anybody who's been a regular viewer of Top Gear will be saddened to hear of the death of Sabine Schmitz. Died of cancer aged 51. She appeared many times in the programme. What a remarkable lady and talented driver she was.

[Goldfinch]

Watched her a few times on Top Gear,very talented.

R.I.P

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[lamboman]

R.I.P I didn't even know she was ill,I've seen first hand how talented she was.

[Jonestown]

Watching and listening to her drive that Transit van round the ring was pure joy, RIP

[mh]

A real punch to the gut hearing that news. Awful.

What a talented woman. Fast and skilled driver, a 'natural' presenter without being a TV person. A German with a sense of humour! Who knew? And fit and good looking of course.

Cancer can go fuck itself. I'm just off to donate to Stand Up to Cancer, had been meaning to do so for a few weeks.

[winkywanky]

Yes, poor Sabine  . What a fucking brilliant girl! Exuberant, epic driver, full of spunk, wonderful. I really enjoyed her appearances on TG. I also found her sexy. All in all a winning combination.

Condolences to her partner and family. The good ones always go early.

[LLPunting]

True shock to hear this, the search and recommendation engines weren't doing their job if they failed to pop her reported diagnosis from July into my feeds during 2020.

She was a delight to watch in action, perhaps not quite as sexy as Vicki B-H with that voice, but absolute gold showing up the lads.

Hope they've got some great drives for her to show off on in the after-life.

RIP


Any lady race devils coming to the fore to put the boy-racers in their place?  Saw reports that Extreme-E (or whatever that electric off-road 4x4 comp is called) will be a unisex event.

[Ahalfa Carling]

Really sad to hear this today - a talented, funny and pretty lady.

They reckon she had been around the Nürburgring over 20 000 times. WOW!!!

RIP pretty lady!!

[sub_marine]

Any lady race devils coming to the fore to put the boy-racers in their place?  Saw reports that Extreme-E (or whatever that electric off-road 4x4 comp is called) will be a unisex event.

Pretty much all 4 wheeled motorsport is open to both sexes, there was a thing on BBC last summer around the time of BLM, they spoke to a WRC team boss and an F1 boss, both agreed that sex is irrelevant for a job, if a female turned up and is faster, they will get the drive.

[mr.bluesky]

Pretty much all 4 wheeled motorsport is open to both sexes, there was a thing on BBC last summer around the time of BLM, they spoke to a WRC team boss and an F1 boss, both agreed that sex is irrelevant for a job, if a female turned up and is faster, they will get the drive.

Danica Patrick was a successful female Indy car driver winning a race in Japan in indy car in 2008. The only female driver to achieve this to this day.

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[Bogof60]

51, Blimey.
Cancer is a bastard.
RIP Lady S
Very talented and very funny

[LLPunting]

Danica Patrick was a successful female Indy car driver winning a race in Japan in indy car in 2008. The only female driver to achieve this to this day.

Danica is very old news.  There are still only a few attracting some media attention but the shoots are growing. External Link/Members Only

[Tomcat]

No pain in peace now R.I.P

[Chorley]

Danica Patrick was a successful female Indy car driver winning a race in Japan in indy car in 2008. The only female driver to achieve this to this day.

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Michelle Mouton was blazing a trail way before Danica. The first woman to win the Pikes Peak Hill climb, shattering the record Inn the process.

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[Chorley]

I would imagine  there'll be a big influx of patrons to the Ring once all of this nonsense is over to pay their respects to the memory of Sabine?

[Blackpool Rock]

Pretty much all 4 wheeled motorsport is open to both sexes, there was a thing on BBC last summer around the time of BLM, they spoke to a WRC team boss and an F1 boss, both agreed that sex is irrelevant for a job, if a female turned up and is faster, they will get the drive.

Exactly but the fact still remains that men win everything, OK so a lot of women will be put off going into a male dominated sport and i'm sure there will be barriers but i'm sure others will have also faced different barriers.
F1 is often dominated by people who come from fairly well off backgrounds to begin with as it all costs money to race karts then progress up through various car series, ordinary people with jobs probably need to stick to banger racing 

Lewis Hamilton has obviously overcome barriers, not sure how well off his parents were but there's always been mention of his dad working numerous jobs to fund it

Women now have the W Series, on one hand it's good that a barrier has been removed but on the other hand can you imagine any situation where women weren't allowed to compete and the rules said men only (obviously this doesn't include sports where men and women compete in separate competitions)

Michele Mouton has been mentioned and she was clearly a very gifted driver but she did well due to having an Audi works drive in basically the best car at the time, however she also finished 2nd behind a man in the same car 

It could be argued that F1 and most other sports which require physical strength etc will obviously disadvantage women however there are sports where men and women should be able to compete on an even playing field yet men always win, why is that 
Sports which immediately spring to mind include Snooker; darts; bowls; shooting
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[mh]

Michelle Mouton was blazing a trail way before Danica. The first woman to win the Pikes Peak Hill climb, shattering the record Inn the process.

Being into rallying myself when still a teenage lad, MM was the focus of a fantasy or two!

[Devonguy78]

So sad to hear about Sabine l remember watching that episode of Top Gear with her in a Transit, also truely sad to hear about Sarah Harding's battle with cancer at the moment. Such a pretty girl and so young, it really does make you appreciate what you have in life.

[winkywanky]

Exactly but the fact still remains that men win everything, OK so a lot of women will be put off going into a male dominated sport and i'm sure there will be barriers but i'm sure others will have also faced different barriers.
F1 is often dominated by people who come from fairly well off backgrounds to begin with as it all costs money to race karts then progress up through various car series, ordinary people with jobs probably need to stick to banger racing 

Lewis Hamilton has obviously overcome barriers, not sure how well off his parents were but there's always been mention of his dad working numerous jobs to fund it

Women now have the W Series, on one hand it's good that a barrier has been removed but on the other hand can you imagine any situation where women weren't allowed to compete and the rules said men only (obviously this doesn't include sports where men and women compete in separate competitions)

Michele Mouton has been mentioned and she was clearly a very gifted driver but she did well due to having an Audi works drive in basically the best car at the time, however she also finished 2nd behind a man in the same car 

It could be argued that F1 and most other sports which require physical strength etc will obviously disadvantage women however there are sports where men and women should be able to compete on an even playing field yet men always win, why is that 
Sports which immediately spring to mind include Snooker; darts; bowls; shooting
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It seems to me that there is (and has been for quite some time) lots of encouragement for women to enter many of these sports where they are under-represented, it is they who will always garner interest and TV interviews when a fledgling talent pops up, both for rarity value and for the women's cause, more so than just another guy.

That's good, and I like it, I want to see more women in these sports, competing at the highest level. I like looking at powerful/successful/sexy women and I think a lot of guys do, probably the majority  .

So it does rather get on my tits when I hear so many women complaining bitterly, suggesting the reason there are so few women at a high level in these sports is because of their gender, when infact it is simply because so few are entering at grass roots. And that is a matter for them, no one else. If you want to do it, what's stopping you from going through all the same things that the guys have to go through, raising the money, having the talent, having the sheer determination, taking the knocks along the way? It's not just some 'gentleman's club' where women are always excluded, corporate and business are very, very keen to sponsor female athletes and sportspeople, the advertising and sponsorship money will be drawn strongly to them.

If say, only 5% of people who start off in a given sport ever reach any level of earning potential or accolade, then if only 10% of those starting out are women then that means that those women will only have 0.5% of the chance of making it to the top, compared with men. Even if they are just as talented, that's the amount who'll make it. It's simple maths. Step up to the plate, put up or shut up.

On the basis of those sums, if there were 200 F1 drivers, ONE of them would be a woman.

The same principles go for elsewhere in life too, whether it's gender or race: to get to the top, you have to be in it to win it, not only that, you may even get bextra help because of your 'rarity'.

[winkywanky]

Re: women in F1, what are the physical aspects which might prevent them being successful?

Tolerance of extreme G-forces
Being the right build and weight
Ability to deal with extreme heat/fluid loss during a race
Core muscle strength

Any more?

And are women inherently less capable with reference to any of those?

[mr.bluesky]

I think the biggest problem for the lack of women in F1 is the problem of pulling into the pits and parking it in their allocoted box for the tyre change. We all know what women are like for trying to park in a small space .

[Blackpool Rock]

Re: women in F1, what are the physical aspects which might prevent them being successful?

Tolerance of extreme G-forces
Being the right build and weight
Ability to deal with extreme heat/fluid loss during a race
Core muscle strength

Any more?

And are women inherently less capable with reference to any of those?

And for F1 once you know the track you don't even have to read a fucking map 

[winkywanky]

Harsh...  

[LLPunting]

It seems to me that there is (and has been for quite some time) lots of encouragement for women to enter many of these sports where they are under-represented, it is they who will always garner interest and TV interviews when a fledgling talent pops up, both for rarity value and for the women's cause, more so than just another guy.
...

You forgot to consider the sexual harassment and misogyny they would receive beyond any applicable racism. 

[LLPunting]

Re: women in F1, what are the physical aspects which might prevent them being successful?

Tolerance of extreme G-forces
Being the right build and weight
Ability to deal with extreme heat/fluid loss during a race
Core muscle strength

Any more?

And are women inherently less capable with reference to any of those?

Women fighter pilots and astronauts...

Look at the size of F1 drivers, many women can match that physique.

[LLPunting]

And for F1 once you know the track you don't even have to read a fucking map 

It's a wonder men do so well in rally as they hate being told directions.

[winkywanky]

You forgot to consider the sexual harassment and misogyny they would receive beyond any applicable racism.

To cave in to that will get you nowhere?

Where's it going to come from? Online? Twitter, Arsebook and all the rest of it...there are plenty of idiots around, they're taking sick pleasure from trolling online, they're on the terraces throwing bananas and all the rest of it, but as a percentage they are very much in the minority now. Why let them rile you? Don't let the fuckers win by getting all upset.

I think there are relatively few situations or occasions now, where you will genuinely get pushed back for being BAME or female. The level of awareness is so high now, the vast majority are so against it. Where it will tend happen is in small, unreconstructed institutions or businesses where there is an established hierarchy which guards its interests jealously. They will be the last bastion of white male 'privilege' but they are an anachronism and dying out.

Large/high profile institutions and yes, sports, are crying out for better diversity now, and they have systems in place to assist in this. In those instances take those opportunities, stop moaning about no-one there looks like me, be that female or BAME. In the case of the former 50% is perhaps a legitimate goal, in the case of the latter take a look at local or national presence and percentages, and it quickly becomes a case of well perhaps you need to be the one taking that first step?

[winkywanky]

Women fighter pilots and astronauts...

Look at the size of F1 drivers, many women can match that physique.

That is exactly my point.

No reason whatsoever that women can't be as good as men, so then it becomes a case of who's entering at the grass roots. If for example only 5% of the grass roots are women, why would you expect any more than 5% getting into the upper echelons?

And yes, it will even come down to the basics of how many women actually want to get into it? Why do men and women tend to gravitate into certain jobs and roles? Nature or nurture? The role of nature is continually downplayed these days but clearly it does have a role to play.

I'm all for equality of opportunity, 100%, but the oversimplistic cries of the low numbers mean that women are being downtrodden are in themselves deeply flawed.

[winkywanky]

It's a wonder men do so well in rally as they hate being told directions.

It's OK, so long as it's a man giving the directions  .

Do you know how long it took me to learn to enjoy being told where to go by a woman on my Satnav?       

[lamboman]

Re: women in F1, what are the physical aspects which might prevent them being successful?

Tolerance of extreme G-forces
Being the right build and weight
Ability to deal with extreme heat/fluid loss during a race
Core muscle strength

Any more?

And are women inherently less capable with reference to any of those?

There's no physical reason why women shouldn't compete in F1,your modern F1 car is nothing like those of the 80s say when a woman probably would have struggled.
The main reason holding them back to be blunt is they don't have bollocks and the associated male traits that go with that,some do have the aggression needed for motorsport but it's a small % so the pool of talent is not that big.

[berksboy]

So why are all F1 drivers so fit nowdays ? Coping with very high G force may have something to do with it.

[lamboman]

So why are all F1 drivers so fit nowdays ? Coping with very high G force may have something to do with it.

Are they?Lando Norris freely admitted to not going to the gym and Kimi isn't going to win Superstars any day soon.Being fit and lowering your HR leaves more capacity to deal with driving,the G force only really affects the neck.

[LLPunting]

That is exactly my point.

No reason whatsoever that women can't be as good as men, so then it becomes a case of who's entering at the grass roots. If for example only 5% of the grass roots are women, why would you expect any more than 5% getting into the upper echelons?

And yes, it will even come down to the basics of how many women actually want to get into it? Why do men and women tend to gravitate into certain jobs and roles? Nature or nurture? The role of nature is continually downplayed these days but clearly it does have a role to play.

I'm all for equality of opportunity, 100%, but the oversimplistic cries of the low numbers mean that women are being downtrodden are in themselves deeply flawed.

Testing of male and female candidates in the military has shown that women tend to have poorer spacial awareness and hand-eye coordination, thus reducing the pool of highly able candldates further for those motorsports where drivers compete directly.

[winkywanky]

Testing of male and female candidates in the military has shown that women tend to have poorer spacial awareness and hand-eye coordination, thus reducing the pool of highly able candldates further for those motorsports where drivers compete directly.

That comes as no surprise.

Women tend to be naturally better at some things than men, men tend to be naturally better at others. There will always be a big overlap though, and some outliers will be just as good as their opposite-gender counterpart. They should be given every opportunity if they are good, and as stated earlier, the relative novelty value means their marketability is better than the norm, and that goes much more for women than it does for men.

Getting back to the very wonderful Sabine, not only was she an amazing competitor and personality compared with her male counterparts, the fact that she was both of those and a woman made her incredibly sexy in my eyes. And I think the same went for many men, she had probably more male fans than female fans, and that is because more men than women are interested in motorsports.

[LLPunting]

To cave in to that will get you nowhere?

Where's it going to come from? Online? Twitter, Arsebook and all the rest of it...there are plenty of idiots around, they're taking sick pleasure from trolling online, they're on the terraces throwing bananas and all the rest of it, but as a percentage they are very much in the minority now. Why let them rile you? Don't let the fuckers win by getting all upset.

I think there are relatively few situations or occasions now, where you will genuinely get pushed back for being BAME or female. The level of awareness is so high now, the vast majority are so against it. Where it will tend happen is in small, unreconstructed institutions or businesses where there is an established hierarchy which guards its interests jealously. They will be the last bastion of white male 'privilege' but they are an anachronism and dying out.

Large/high profile institutions and yes, sports, are crying out for better diversity now, and they have systems in place to assist in this. In those instances take those opportunities, stop moaning about no-one there looks like me, be that female or BAME. In the case of the former 50% is perhaps a legitimate goal, in the case of the latter take a look at local or national presence and percentages, and it quickly becomes a case of well perhaps you need to be the one taking that first step?

Policing issues aside the Clapham Common protest was another reminder to familiarise yourself with the experiences of ordinary and renowned women in public or private, in person and by the various forms of communication and comment.  A lot of it involves violent threat to safety and well-being including sexual assault, that's a lot different to being mocked with fruit or spears or references to the jungle.  Neither hate can just be dismissed as a matter of "sticks and stones" because those "sticks are stones" are being implied as raised and ready to strike.  It doesn't matter if it's a minority of the population, because they don't respect what the majority think or the laws raised to protect us and they will gather to confront their targets when they outnumber them locally.  This is terrorism not pitched battle with all forces brought to bear.

[LLPunting]

That comes as no surprise.

Women tend to be naturally better at some things than men, men tend to be naturally better at others. There will always be a big overlap though, and some outliers will be just as good as their opposite-gender counterpart. They should be given every opportunity if they are good, and as stated earlier, the relative novelty value means their marketability is better than the norm, and that goes much more for women than it does for men.

Getting back to the very wonderful Sabine, not only was she an amazing competitor and personality compared with her male counterparts, the fact that she was both of those and a woman made her incredibly sexy in my eyes. And I think the same went for many men, she had probably more male fans than female fans, and that is because more men than women are interested in motorsports.

You forgot to note that men will make anything sexual.

[SamOmar]

Sad news, she was inspiration to many over the years

[winkywanky]

Policing issues aside the Clapham Common protest was another reminder to familiarise yourself with the experiences of ordinary and renowned women in public or private, in person and by the various forms of communication and comment.  A lot of it involves violent threat to safety and well-being including sexual assault, that's a lot different to being mocked with fruit or spears or references to the jungle.  Neither hate can just be dismissed as a matter of "sticks and stones" because those "sticks are stones" are being implied as raised and ready to strike.  It doesn't matter if it's a minority of the population, because they don't respect what the majority think or the laws raised to protect us and they will gather to confront their targets when they outnumber them locally.  This is terrorism not pitched battle with all forces brought to bear.

What we hear much of these days is of microaggressions. Some of them are so micro as to be inconsequential in my view. I witnessed these in my ex-workplace for 40yrs, which was actually an incredibly enlightened place for various reasons (I shan't go into detail for obvious reasons).

When I started off there were women wearing miniskirts (with the attendant male interest evident, 99% subtle), also because of the location of my job, a relatively high number of BAME. I actually cannot recall over all those years, any incidents of note for the first 30 or so, but in the last 10 there were two things which stood out to me. The first was a woman applying for a post for which she was not really properly qualified (I'm gagging to tell the detail but I can't), didn't get the gig and the employer was taken to an indistrial tribunal (she lost). The other was a BAME intern(ish) guy who a good workmate and I looked after for a couple of weeks at work. We gave him stuff to do, we looked after him, we protected him (in a fast moving and high pressure/very technical scenario), in short we nurtured him (and he was given to us because we had a rep. for looking after newbies). We were met with occasional attitude from someone who thought they already 'knew their chops because he'd been to college', and a couple of weeks after he left us word came back that we had let him down, with the inference  because he was BAME. My mate was incensed, I was deeply saddened, because NOTHING could have been further from the truth (you'll have to take my word on that I'm afraid).

I honestly think that the 'fever pitch of offence' has got so high now that sometimes the sound of eggshells breaking is the only thing breaking the silence. Clearly everyone should expect to be able to live their lives without fear of emotional or physical distress from other based upon who or what they are, but the range of offending is so large now, ranging from the frankly inoffensive to murder. To my mind those extremes are not necessarily linked, they are simply too far apart.

For the record, I never wolf-whistled at a girl in my life (OK perhaps ironically, to someone I knew well) and I don't even condone that. 

A woman getting murdered on Clapham Common has nothing to do with wolf-whistling IMO.

[winkywanky]

I do fear we are going WAAAY off=topic now though   

[Chorley]

Racing drivers have always had to be reasonably fit-although if you think of James Hunt smoking a pack of Marlboro and downing a bottle of Jack Daniels before winning a Grand Prix or Nigel Mansell emerging from his Williams and looking like he'd just gone 10 rounds with Mike Tyson while in a sauna- you can see how far things have come.

I would assume the insane cornering speeds of modern F1 cars massively increases the g-forces.
I read an article recently that said that even LMP cars that race at Le Mans and are enclosed produce higher g-forces on drivers than F1 cars of even a few years ago due to the immense downforce they generate. Imagine how much intense that experience would be for your body in  an open canopy F1 car? 

[LLPunting]

One last lap:
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[mr.bluesky]

A nice tribute programme about her shown on BBC1 tonight

[winkywanky]

One last lap:
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A nice tribute programme about her shown on BBC1 tonight

Cheers, both   

[cideruk]

Was glad to see they got most of the old presenters out for the tribute rather than just the current 3

No age to die but those that burn twice as bright and all that.

[lamboman]

Really nice tribute she must have been very well thought of for that,gone too soon but a life well lived.

[winkywanky]

Saw the Top Gear special on her passing and I had a smile on my face all the way through. Not many people can do that. An absolute gem of a human being.