Murder investigation.

[Blackpool Rock]

Thank god this thread isn't going off topic 

[Chorley]

Typical woke comment.   

How about holding open a door for a woman, do you also find that offensive.   

Speaking on a personal level, I will make an effort to hold a door open for women, but I'd also do it for men as well as it's just a common courtesy isn't it? By the same token, there's a few women that I know who I deliberately wouldn't open a door for as they get so massively offended that it's not worth the hassle. 

[David1970]

If a serving sensitive assignment policeman wasn't involved it just would of been another fleeting murder news..

Agree with you, the fact it was a policemen who are meant to stop murders makes it more news worthy. If it had not been a policeman I think this would be getting the coverage it is. Add in the fact that he had been involved in another sexual offence days before makes it worse. Saying all that he has not been found guilty.

[lamboman]

I do. There's a new class consisting of permanently-offended grievance merchants. Thanks to advances in technology, medicine and capitalism, people have more time on their hands than ever before, and they live longer, so a great many people adopt ever more causes to get worked up about (climate change, men being offensive, capitalism etc etc) and therefore look for incidents and events to latch onto and to amplify their anger.

It explains why this latest murder is in the news (allegedly committed by a copper....booo!) and the murder of a 7 yr old in a park was brushed under the carpet quickly (perpetrator had allegedly been an asylum seeker.)

There's a league table of offence and offenders in these people's minds. Coppers, tories and men invariably float to the top of the list. Climate change deniers, the Royal Family, and anti-vaxxers are in there too, but a bit lower down.

More or less any news item, however irrelevant to the cause, can be turned around to suit the argument if you try hard enough.

This is spot on.
I think it's fairly certain that the Met which has been bent for as long as I've lived have waved off his first offence and he's gone for broke resulting in the poor womans death.
The anti men reaction is way OTT and would be unthinkable if it were women in the dock.
And it might be a bit harsh but there's lots of situations where it would be nice if we can do whatever we want in safety but it's not practible.I wouldn't walk 50 minutes across London at night and feel safe in fact I'd almost expect trouble.

[king tarzan]

Really ??????????

In my local market all the stall holders call the old girls “Luv”, never heard them object.   

You are clearly the type that like to be offended on behalf of others. 

Gosh if some watched old episodes of the bill and only fools and horses there would be an uproar in the 21st century..

My option get a life I love them old episodes

[King Nuts]

Good piece on the subject here: External Link/Members Only

This bit in particular is interesting:

In the UK, and many other countries, the number of murders per year has been dropping since at least 1990. Going further back, there was a surge in the later years of the 20th century, but on a longer timescale the trend is clear: you were many, many times more likely to be murdered for most of human history than you are now in the UK, or in most other countries.

To carry on in the same stereotyped vein, if you are a woman, you are even less likely to be murdered. Of the 695 people murdered in England and Wales in the year to March 2020, 506 of them were men. And for the specific issue of murders on the street, by strangers — the fear we’re dealing with — the disparity is greater still: 154 men were murdered by strangers, and just 23 women.

[Jomoore]

No one in this day and age calls females they don’t know “ Luv” such a condescending and demeaning word, no wonder they take offence.

What?  You've clearly never been to Yorkshire 

[Jimmyredcab]

What?  You've clearly never been to Yorkshire 

Indeed, anyway back on topic.

The copper is due to appear at The Old Bailey on 16th March, probably just a formality rather than the start of the trial.

One thing I find a bit unusual, he is 48 years old but only joined the police in 2018, no doubt his past occupations will be looked into. ???

[Blackpool Rock]

Indeed, anyway back on topic.

The copper is due to appear at The Old Bailey on 16th March, probably just a formality rather than the start of the trial.

One thing I find a bit unusual, he is 48 years old but only joined the police in 2018, no doubt his past occupations will be looked into. ???

They ran through his employment history earlier on the news, can't remember exactly and can't find the full list on the net from a quick look but he had a military background and was certainly in the Territorial army at some point.
He then guarded nuclear power stations and the transportation of materials but ended up failing a fitness test, now sure if fitness means physical fitness or fitness to do the job for whatever reason.
He also worked at a now shut family garage at some point and military tunnels run under it, both the garage and tunnels have been / are being examined.

Fitness isn't a bar to joining the Met though as I believe they struggle to recruit and will employ almost anyone 
Doesn't look like he was ever a proper copper type copper but more protecting / looking after buildings and diplomatic people -

Couzens joined the force in September 2018, and was first posted to South Area where he joined a response team covering the Bromley area.

He then moved to the Parliamentary and Diplomatic Protection Command last February, where his primary role was on uniformed patrol duties of Embassies

[Boundless]

This Green Party peer has a solution to keep women safe, she wants us all off the streets after 6pm, you really couldn’t make it up.   

Hidden Image/Members Only

Would that include police officers?

[chrishornx]

It's not a 'woke'  comment Jimmy stop using phrases that you don't understand. 
Holding a door open is manners.

There is a difference.

...and calling your wife 'Luv' or your wife calling you 'Luv' is a term of affection and not condescending I accept the term can be used in a condescending manner but by no means always as has been suggested

Opening a door for a lady is 'manners' but many modern women don't care for it

[Boundless]

Ghastly though this case undoubtedly is, and we all have the greatest sympathy for the woman's family, I'm finding it increasingly odd that it's become such a headline-topping story. I mean, other women and girls have been assaulted, kidnapped and/or murdered over the years, and the time-rich, shouty, media commentariat never seem to hang on to the story for more than ten minutes.

And the way it's morphed into some nonsense about curfews for men is nothing short of fucking weird.

Yes it is strange but that's the way of the world these days, seems it's all or nothing and knee jerk reactions.
Take the BLM protests and the demos about HS2 etc. I reckon it's the lockdown and folks haven't got enough to occupy themselves.

As for the this particular murder, my hunch as soon as it was reported is that this guy is/was known to her. I reckon it would be pretty difficult to abduct someone at 9.30pm on a busy road in London without witnesses. The police have said that they don't know whether she actually got home, in which case it's probably more likely to be someone she knew.
I read that 57% of people who murder women are partners/ex partners and another 35% are known to the victim, that makes only 8% strangers.

[Jimmyredcab]

Would that include police officers?

I hope this doesn’t blacken the name of the Met, there are 44,000 officers currently serving, most of them do a good job under difficult circumstances.

Any occupation can have someone go rogue as I found out in 2009 with John Worboys the black cab rapist, we were never allowed to forget that, even now it still gets brought up. 

[martini2429]

Indeed, anyway back on topic.

The copper is due to appear at The Old Bailey on 16th March, probably just a formality rather than the start of the trial.

One thing I find a bit unusual, he is 48 years old but only joined the police in 2018, no doubt his past occupations will be looked into. ???

He worked for the Civil Nuclear Police at Dungeness from 2011 and transferred to the Met in 2018, his only link to the Military was that he was in the TA

 

[Blackpool Rock]

I hope this doesn’t blacken the name of the Met, there are 44,000 officers currently serving, most of them do a good job under difficult circumstances.

Any occupation can have someone go rogue as I found out in 2009 with John Worboys the black cab rapist, we were never allowed to forget that, even now it still gets brought up. 

Yes coppers are just normal people with the usual range of decent people and rogues, in fact i've heard that the best copper are good as they think like criminals so in different circumstances if they had been born to different parents on the other side of town they may well have been on the other side of the bars.
I believe that most police forces have full time officers just investigating other coppers and the level of crime / corruption is alarming but is normally kept quiet to avoid the public getting too disillusioned with the authorities

[King Nuts]

This is now taking a weird and sinister turn. BBC Radio News is giving full vent to those who are now intent on turning this incident into a campaign. And like all similar campaigns, like eradicating climate change, eradicating poverty, the pursuit of 'equality' and all the rest of it, it has no real discernible, let alone achievable goal.

One well-spoken and obviously time-rich lunatic said that every time a woman is murdered, all men in the UK should be under a 24-hour curfew. Wonder if that includes coppers, delivery drivers, A and E doctors, coastguards, prison officers, pilots, train drivers and so on?

This is what happens when as a country, you start caving to every grievance-obsessed idiot.

[Jimmyredcab]

I believe that most police forces have full time officers just investigating other coppers and the level of crime / corruption is alarming but is normally kept quiet to avoid the public getting too disillusioned with the authorities

I have no idea whether that is right or not, the average Bobby would probably never have the opportunity to get involved in corruption.   

[Jimmyredcab]

This is now taking a weird and sinister turn. BBC Radio News is giving full vent to those who are now intent on turning this incident into a campaign. And like all similar campaigns, like eradicating climate change, eradicating poverty, the pursuit of 'equality' and all the rest of it, it has no real discernible, let alone achievable goal.

One well-spoken and obviously time-rich lunatic said that every time a woman is murdered, all men in the UK should be under a 24-hour curfew. Wonder if that includes coppers, delivery drivers, A and E doctors, coastguards, prison officers, pilots, train drivers and so on?

This is what happens when as a country, you start caving to every grievance-obsessed idiot.

I am pleased that the police have not backed down over tonight’s planned “vigil”.     

You can’t start to make exceptions because it’s seen as a “good cause”.

They now want us to stand at our doors with a light, needless to say I won’t be joining in, not because I don’t care but because it is a totally pointless gesture.

[Blackpool Rock]

I have no idea whether that is right or not, the average Bobby would probably never have the opportunity to get involved in corruption.   

It's what i've been told by someone who knows a copper, as for the opportunity of getting involved in corruption they mix with criminals every day they work so plenty of opportunity I would have thought 
Years ago I bet most coppers were bent even if only slightly but they are more accountable now and know that taking a bung to look the other way won't necessarily get swept under the carpet

[Steve2]

Generational or not - calling a women 'luv' is condescending

In your view maybe but you may be in the minority

[willie loman]

he married a lady from the ukraine, something i would want to be  kept hidden from a jury if i was on trial for a sex crime. 

[Jomoore]

Generational or not - calling a women 'luv' is condescending

It depends where you come from, in some parts it's quite normal.  In fact in Leeds even the blokes have been heard to call each other "luv" 

[advent2016]

I hope this doesn’t blacken the name of the Met, there are 44,000 officers currently serving, most of them do a good job under difficult circumstances.

I think his brother is a longer serving Police officer. He's going to find that awkward in the locker room

[lamboman]

I hope this doesn’t blacken the name of the Met, there are 44,000 officers currently serving, most of them do a good job under difficult circumstances.

  I don't think the Met could have a worse reputation,inept and corrupt led by an idiot no wonder this has happened on her watch.

[Jimmyredcab]

The so called “vigil” has gone ahead anyway, they have basically ignored the police orders, I am watching it live on You-Tube.

There appears to be a big police presence and they are taking plenty of abuse from the demonstrators. 

[Jimmyredcab]

The so called “vigil” has gone ahead anyway, they have basically ignored the police orders, I am watching it live on You-Tube.

There appears to be a big police presence and they are taking plenty of abuse from the demonstrators. 

The police seem to have lost control of the situation, they would probably be wise to withdraw before it really kicks off, these feminist demonstrators are not going to back down.

[ulstersubbie]

It depends where you come from, in some parts it's quite normal.  In fact in Leeds even the blokes have been heard to call each other "luv" 

I know mate, lived in Pudsey (west Leeds) for three years. Still makes me laugh today.   

[Xtro]

It depends where you come from, in some parts it's quite normal.  In fact in Leeds even the blokes have been heard to call each other "luv" 

Even the crows in Yorkshire think it's normal - External Link/Members Only      

[stevedave]

I know mate, lived in Pudsey (west Leeds) for three years. Still makes me laugh today.   

Bus drivers in Leeds call everyone Luv, regardless of gender or age. I think its part of the job description.

[Payyourwaymate]

I guess we could start by making sure that if we see a friend of ours being inappropriate/creepy/predatory with a girl who clearly doesn't want to know.. We could say "leave her alone mate" I think it's these types of small things that could help at least.

Like seeing a man threatening a woman in the Tesco carpark (as I saw the other day) and just walking over to check that it doesn't escalate.. That type of thing. I wasn't brave enough to actually intervene, but she saw that I was there, and so did he.

I've stopped a girl been physically assaulted by her boyfriend temporarily and she kept arguing with him and fought with him 10 mins later. I could not believe my eyes that she went back to argue with him after being thrown around on the floor. She stayed with him for a long time and continued the abusive relationship. It's not worth the hassle more time. In a place like the US where guns are legal you would be risking your life at one point trying to stop physical violence. In other countries where serious violence is more common you really can get killed for minor reasons like defending a woman from the wrong random guy. Not sure it's worth the short term tears of being killed or violently mamed by the male instead and then being forgotten about whilst they continue their abusive relationship or the woman goes about her life whilst you are dead. Better off calling the police or tell them to call the police. There's a lot of signs that someone can see before violence actually occurs more time.

[Chorley]

I'm watching a Facebook live  stream of the vigil on Clapham Common. It's not looking pretty 

[willie loman]

  I don't think the Met could have a worse reputation,inept and corrupt led by an idiot no wonder this has happened on her watch.

there isnt a lot you can do with a rogue policeman, though agree that the met hasnt much of a reputation.

[Blackpool Rock]

The so called “vigil” has gone ahead anyway, they have basically ignored the police orders, I am watching it live on You-Tube.

There appears to be a big police presence and they are taking plenty of abuse from the demonstrators. 

So what happens to the organisers now who were on the news earlier telling everyone that it had been cancelled, do they still get fined 
Looks like they couldn't get the genie back in the bottle

[Adoniron]

It looks the policing of the vigil has been very heavy handed.

[Chorley]

It looks the policing of the vigil has been very heavy handed.

I've no idea what feed you were watching, but the Police seemed quite passive and a large group of them basically fucked off and left the protesters to it? 

[Jimmyredcab]

It looks the policing of the vigil has been very heavy handed.

I must have missed that, when I stopped watching the police were simply taking the abuse and not responding.

At a recent anti lockdown demonstration they kettled people and snatched individuals from the crowd. 

[Apu]

I've downloaded footage from twitter where Police surround women standing by flowers and suddenly drag half a dozen women to the ground and pin them down.
This sparks chaos and mayhem.  A bunch of men get handy with police and chant abuse.

Absolutely disgusting footage, 30 people asked me to share the footage to them on Instagram. Not a trace of this on the mainstream news.

Meanwhile in Nottingham, the police worked with organisers and had trained stewards on site.

London (Lambeth) police have no shame.

[daviemac]

I've downloaded footage from twitter where Police surround women standing by flowers and suddenly drag half a dozen women to the ground and pin them down.
This sparks chaos and mayhem.  A bunch of men get handy with police and chant abuse.

Absolutely disgusting footage, 30 people asked me to share the footage to them on Instagram. Not a trace of this on the mainstream news.

Meanwhile in Nottingham, the police worked with organisers and had trained stewards on site.

London (Lambeth) police have no shame.

Would any of that happened if they had done what the organisers had asked and stayed at home instead of breaking the law.   

[Blackpool Rock]

I haven't seen much of the news this morning but the indication was that police were actually letting the vigil happen as it was peaceful to begin with.
However people then started getting up and making speeches which led to others flocking to the speaker so they could listen but this meant they all bunched up so the police asked them to disperse 

If the police do nothing they are accused of losing control but when they take action they are accused of losing control 

[Doc Holliday]

If you're referring to the girl stabbed to death in a park in Bolton, it was poor little Emily Jones.

... and the murder of a 7 yr old in a park was brushed under the carpet quickly (perpetrator had allegedly been an asylum seeker.)

I cannot believe you are still trying to drag this up again after last time. Falsely using a family’s unbelievably tragic event for political ends. Shame on you.

External Link/Members Only

The story in this case was a failure of Mental Health Services by not ensuring a woman with severe mental health issues was taking her medication, but despite this was able to roam the community freely and with a fondness for carrying knives.

"In 2015 she was hospitalised after threatening neighbours with a knife and twice in 2017 after she stabbed her mother in the hand and hit her over the head with a knife, then turned up a friend's house with a knife asking to see her 13-year-old daughter."

[advent2016]

It was obvious that when the vigil was banned there would still be a large presence and an opportunity for factions from extreme left and right to use it for their own ends.

I went to the vigil and had sight of the bandstand and during the day it was all quite peaceful later on it looked to me that activists and their camera-people (didn't want to use the word  "cameraman") deliberately tried to cause trouble and were inevitably restrained by the police and taken away. The woman with red hair was very photogenic and refused to leave peacefully.

I might be unduly cynical but it looked very staged to me.

Hidden Image/Members Only

[Chorley]

It was obvious that when the vigil was banned there would still be a large presence and an opportunity for factions from extreme left and right to use it for their own ends.

I went to the vigil and had sight of the bandstand and during the day it was all quite peaceful later on it looked to me that activists and their camera-people (didn't want to use the word  "cameraman") deliberately tried to cause trouble and were inevitably restrained by the police and taken away. The woman with red hair was very photogenic and refused to leave peacefully.

I might be unduly cynical but it looked very staged to me.

Hidden Image/Members OnlyThe feed I watched on FB showed an extremely hostile crowd , jostling with and hurling a constant stream of abuse at line after line of coppers who kept on politely asking them to disperse.
 After about 30 minutes of this a large group of coppers just marched off and left the protesters to it. However, the protesters continued to follow them in an aggressive manner swearing and making all sorts of threats and accusations, chanting "Shame on you" and "Scum".
 I get that people are upset, but this felt a step beyond to me and I'm amazed it didn't spiral further out of control. 

[David1970]

It was obvious that when the vigil was banned there would still be a large presence and an opportunity for factions from extreme left and right to use it for their own ends.

I went to the vigil and had sight of the bandstand and during the day it was all quite peaceful later on it looked to me that activists and their camera-people (didn't want to use the word  "cameraman") deliberately tried to cause trouble and were inevitably restrained by the police and taken away. The woman with red hair was very photogenic and refused to leave peacefully.

I might be unduly cynical but it looked very staged to me.

Hidden Image/Members Only

We are in the middle of a pandemic, we have laws about social distancing, I don’t care how just you think your cause is just follow the law. That covers BLM, ant-vax, Reclaim Our Streets or anti-masks demonstrations and all the other arseholes.

[Jimmyredcab]

Absolutely disgusting footage.

London (Lambeth) police have no shame.

This gathering was totally illegal, it started peaceful enough until it got dark and then the agitators and anarchists took over.

Would you have voiced such outrage had it been an anti lockdown demonstration.  ????

[Paris69]

We are in the middle of a pandemic, we have laws about social distancing, I don’t care how just you think your cause is just follow the law. That covers BLM, ant-vax, Reclaim Our Streets or anti-masks demonstrations and all the other arseholes.

I agree.... but certain protests have been given a lot more lee-way and positive media coverage than others, eh...

[David1970]

This gathering was totally illegal, it started peaceful enough until it got dark and then the agitators and anarchists took over.

Would you have voiced such outrage had it been an anti lockdown demonstration.  ????

Both as bad as each other, we are in a world wide pandemic, keep to social distancing laws, it’s not rocket science

[David1970]

I agree.... but certain protests have been given a lot more lee-way and positive media coverage than others, eh...

Don’t give a fuck who gets positive coverage, stick to social distancing laws, it’s that simple.

[Paris69]

Both as bad as each other, we are in a world wide pandemic, keep to social distancing laws, it’s not rocket science

Human interaction and thought is more complex than simple logic...

[Jimmyredcab]

I agree.... but certain protests have been given a lot more lee-way and positive media coverage than others, eh...

You obviously mean the BLM demonstrations, you are correct but that was some time ago.

Mainstream media doesn't give fair coverage of these demonstrations, I prefer to watch live on You-Tube.

I once attended a demonstration outside the offices of the BBC, they didn't even mention it on their website. 

[Jimmyredcab]

Don’t give a fuck who gets positive coverage.

Well you should care.   

The media shouldn't give the thumbs up to some demonstrations and not others.