Universal basic income

[Pete123]

I was reading a few articles recently and noticed there is more and more interest in creating a universal basic income system.
Does anyone here think it will be introduced in the uk?

[daviemac]

Without any detail of what it is I can only presume it won't come here as we already have the minimum wage in place.

[Pete123]

Unusual basic income is when the government gives every citizen a set amount of money each month/week  regardless...
If you are rich or poor. Working or unemployed everyone gets a set amount of money to cover their basic living costs
Food housing utilities etc.

[Jimmyredcab]

Unusual basic income is when the government gives every citizen a set amount of money each month/week  regardless...
If you are rich or poor. Working or unemployed everyone gets a set amount of money to cover their basic living costs
Food housing utilities etc.

The government have no money, it’s taxpayers money. 

[Kev40ish]

Hidden Image/Members Only

[Pete123]

True the government has no money
But it still doesn't stop them wanking away billions on daft projects
Luckily we still have our own currency and can create it out of thin air

[lostandfound]

AIUI experiments around the world have been inconclusive.

External Link/Members Only

Would have to be major structural changes in our economy for them to be seriously considered IMO, and as yet we are not seeing millions of white collar jobs replaced by AI etc.

A matter of national policy ie politics, and I don't think we discuss them much on here?

[myothernameis]

I was reading a few articles recently and noticed there is more and more interest in creating a universal basic income system.
Does anyone here think it will be introduced in the uk?

I think its already here, as universal credits.

Im in full-time employment, and earn around £850 per month, and also can get £450 in universal credits, but only if my earnings fall below a threshold

[Pete123]

I'm not sure it's political as it's being discussed by people of all political persuasions.
But if the moderator deems it political by all means delete the thread

[winkywanky]

I was reading a few articles recently and noticed there is more and more interest in creating a universal basic income system.
Does anyone here think it will be introduced in the uk?

What, like Communism? No, not really  .

Even the fucking Russians and Chinese have given up on this 

[winkywanky]

Unusual basic income is when the government gives every citizen a set amount of money each month/week  regardless...
If you are rich or poor. Working or unemployed everyone gets a set amount of money to cover their basic living costs
Food housing utilities etc.

So who goes out to work to contribute to society then, and what motivation would they have to do so?

It'd be just a charter for the feckless and selfish. Perhaps you are one of them? 

We already have a pretty good safety net system and basic provision for those unable to support themselves.

As for those who simply don't fancy doing that because they don't give a shit, frankly, they can fuck off, I don't want to pay for them, why should I?  .

[winkywanky]

I was reading a few articles recently and noticed there is more and more interest in creating a universal basic income system.
Does anyone here think it will be introduced in the uk?

....and by the way, WHO is interested in this?

Care to provide a link off Fuck Fuck Go, or whatever your favoured search engine is?

[Pete123]

Russians don't have it
Benefits are vitally non existent
But wages are low so are income taxes i think its 17%
On the other hand living costs are much lower too
I can't comment on China because I don't know
The UBI is a bit like tax credits in reverse..

[Pete123]

Why are you so aggressive?
Just Google universal basic income there are numerous articles on it

[winkywanky]

Russians don't have it
Benefits are vitally non existent
But wages are low so are income taxes i think its 17%
On the other hand living costs are much lower too
I can't comment on China because I don't know
The UBI is a bit like tax credits in reverse..

What you are proposing is basically Communism.

In an ideal world it might work, but human nature dictates that too many people end up being lazy and doing fuck all.

You might also like to note that Communist states always had the most corruption and zero accountability.

[winkywanky]

Why are you so aggressive?
Just Google universal basic income there are numerous articles on it

Because added to your cryptic little posts attempting to undermine the vaccine response, you just sound like a troll.

Either that or you're 20yrs old and spend all day in your bedroom in your parents' house, smoking inordinate amounts of skunk.

Here you go: External Link/Members Only

And I found it on Google  .

So then Pete, how do you think this might work, and if it were brought in, would there be an additional cannabis allowance for those such as yourself?

[Pete123]

Capitalism and communism are different sides of the same coin
You end up eventually all the power and corruption with the few at the top

[daviemac]

Why are you so aggressive?
Just Google universal basic income there are numerous articles on it

You started the thread so it's up to you to make it clear what and who you are taking about, I for one have no idea and I don't have enough interest to search for it.

[willie loman]

Why are you so aggressive?
Just Google universal basic income there are numerous articles on it

+1 read up on a new idea, before ranting away about it, its obvious that the future will differ from the past, from what little i know about it, its considered of interest in wealthy and educated parts of the europe.

[Pete123]

Sorry moderator
I cant post links because I'm not very computer literate

[finn5555]

Why are you so aggressive?
Just Google universal basic income there are numerous articles on it

Why don’t you post a link 

You don’t half post some bollocks 

[winkywanky]

True the government has no money
But it still doesn't stop them wanking away billions on daft projects
Luckily we still have our own currency and can create it out of thin air

So perhaps a way of facilitating this would be to simply print more money and give it to people? Is that what you're suggesting?

[myothernameis]

Sorry moderator
I cant post links because I'm not very computer literate

Now your just being stupid

[winkywanky]

Capitalism and communism are different sides of the same coin
You end up eventually all the power and corruption with the few at the top

Capitalism is far from perfect but vastly preferable to Communism. There was always more corruption in Communism.

[Hornycustodian]

Purely on economics, it'll have to happen. Technology is outpacing and outperforming human in almost every manufacturing set ups. Even farming, husbandry and eventually mining will be done by tech. There is likely to be huge collapse in no. Of jobs available. Only safe jobs are service industries jobs. Teachers, plumbers, water treatments, banking, retail, security etc. In uk specifically,  the issue is political. Everyone wants some1 to look down on. The major parties would rather have ppl separated by class, regions and other socialogical factors rather than uniting everyone as they can promote what ever they want to at the time. Easiest way to do so is via wealth/money. Example: cctv everywhere in public. If ppl were united, most likely would not come to fruition. But because there are pockets which say they agree, govt can focus attention on those and pass things allowing it to happen. By the time anyone recognizes the  privacy issues, itll have been 2 late and its now a norm in society. Also, that lbj saying rings fucking true. I wish it wasn't but it does. Replace the races with the employed and unemployed and that is Britain attitude. Murdoch and telegraph owners amplify this message. 

But this is veering into politics

[Pete123]

Fine I'm stupid and post bollocks
I just look at whats going on around me

[finn5555]

Fine I'm stupid and post bollocks

Fair play for admitting it 

[winkywanky]

+1 read up on a new idea, before ranting away about it, its obvious that the future will differ from the past, from what little i know about it, its considered of interest in wealthy and educated parts of the europe.

There is always someone interested in something, especially in a liberal democracy.

I understand where it's coming from, but I think the basic fact is that if you simply doled out enough money for people to live on with no questions asked and with no compulsion to work for it in any way, their food and accommodation effectively a 'given', then it simply becomes a charter for the feckless.

You would have greater and greater numbers of people not contributing, society would fall apart. All those people now, who have lowly-paid jobs they don't really like (and there's millions of them), what would they do? They'd sit at home doing nothing, or perhaps become involved in crime for their perks, like drugs and booze.

Then no one does those jobs. No one works in McDonalds, no one picks fruit, no one sweeps the streets.

Whole swathes of human beings with no purpose to their lives at all. Talk about killing them with kindness.

[winkywanky]

Purely on economics, it'll have to happen. Technology is outpacing and outperforming human in almost every manufacturing set ups. Even farming, husbandry and eventually mining will be done by tech. There is likely to be huge collapse in no. Of jobs available. Only safe jobs are service industries jobs. Teachers, plumbers, water treatments, banking, retail, security etc. In uk specifically,  the issue is political. Everyone wants some1 to look down on. The major parties would rather have ppl separated by class, regions and other socialogical factors rather than uniting everyone as they can promote what ever they want to at the time. Easiest way to do so is via wealth/money. Example: cctv everywhere in public. If ppl were united, most likely would not come to fruition. But because there are pockets which say they agree, govt can focus attention on those and pass things allowing it to happen. By the time anyone recognizes the  privacy issues, itll have been 2 late and its now a norm in society. Also, that lbj saying rings fucking true. I wish it wasn't but it does. Replace the races with the employed and unemployed and that is Britain attitude. Murdoch and telegraph owners amplify this message. 

I think more to do with people that do go out to earn and keep society going, become very resentful of those that contribute nothing. It's not class. It's basic human nature - why would I work my butt off to support someone who does nothing, and often chooses to do nothing? There are some people around like that today, but with the carrot & stick system we have they are relatively few. Under UBI they would surely proliferate.

I get the bit about tech taking over, but we haven't got anywhere near that stage yet and things will evolve gradually.

As for CCTV, I think you'll find the vast majority of people are law abiding citizens, have nothing to fear from CCTV and really like it when criminals and thieves get brought to justice by being visible on camera.

[Pete123]

Yes I agree
But its unusual basic income
No money for phones drugs fancy stuff
If you want the extra things in life you have to do some work for them
Also what is also connected with UBI is a social credit system.. but thats a real can of worms and a dangerous rout to go down

[Pete123]

Two spelling mistakes i know
Before anyone calls me stupid again

[winkywanky]

Fine I'm stupid and post bollocks
I just look at whats going on around me

I was aggressive, I apologise  .

But you need to think about stuff you post up and be prepared to back it up.

Posting up something like everything is not what it seems on a thread about Covid vaccines (and just leave it dangling)  is gonna piss people off. Members here have been ill with Covid or even lost loved ones and friends to it, because there was no vaccine yet available. Now there is. And then you post that? You are gonna get your head bitten off  .

And then out of the blue you start this thread up when many people are finding things financially very tough. Think first, if you come across as being genuine then you'll get a better response.

[willie loman]

lockdown has shown that most people miss their jobs, very few people would wish to remain doing nothing, as for drugs there is no possibility in the nearish future that they will be illegal, the war on drugs is a bit like the childrens crusade or the witch craft trials, something futured generations will find baffling, countries that have legalised drugs, havent found that life has fallen apart.

[winkywanky]

lockdown has shown that most people miss their jobs, very few people would wish to remain doing nothing, as for drugs there is no possibility in the nearish future that they will be illegal, the war on drugs is a bit like the childrens crusade or the witch craft trials, something futured generations will find baffling, countries that have legalised drugs, havent found that life has fallen apart.

Has any country of note made the supply of heroin legal willie? I doubt it. Perhaps change it in the UK so that the user is seen as a victim and not a criminal (and that has worked well in some countries), but you simply cannot have it being freely supplied and consumed willy nilly.

[puntingpumping1920]

Most UBI I've seen are partial UBI. Replacing all benefits with a fixed amount. 
 
Better safety net for the poor. There needs to be big changes to the benefits system
 
You're barely surviving in London working minimum wage jobs or receiving universal credit
 

[willie loman]

Has any country of note made the supply of heroin legal willie? I doubt it. Perhaps change it in the UK so that the user is seen as a victim and not a criminal (and that has worked well in some countries), but you simply cannot have it being freely supplied and consumed willy nilly.

you seem to have kept the prejudices you acquired growing up, almost all experts in the field have wanted it legalised for years, there will be little change until our generation, the last of the ignorant bigots die out. as to your question, just google it. not that long ago and still in certain parts of the world, what we get up to could land us in prison.

[winkywanky]

you seem to have kept the prejudices you acquired growing up, almost all experts in the field have wanted it legalised for years, there will be little change until our generation, the last of the ignorant bigots die out. as to your question, just google it. not that long ago and still in certain parts of the world, what we get up to could land us in prison.

No, I asked you a question willie, I'm not going to Google it   .

You reckon anyone should be legally allowed to sell heroin to whoever wants to buy it (over 18 of course)?

[Gordon Bennett]

The concept of "Helicopter Money" has been kicking around for donkeys years and pops up regularly in one guise or another. It involves just flying around chucking £millions of tenners out the doors.
The public scamper around gathering it up and spend it like billy-ho which stimulates economic growth/activity. The money pretty quickly finds its way back to government coffers via indirect taxation/duties.
I think the biggest problem is it's not very entrepreneurial or aspirational..... It'd be a lot of chavs pissing money away on booze, scratchcards and take-aways so these folks still end up needing DWP support to pay for boring things like rent, utility bills and proper food.

[smiths]

Has any country of note made the supply of heroin legal willie? I doubt it. Perhaps change it in the UK so that the user is seen as a victim and not a criminal (and that has worked well in some countries), but you simply cannot have it being freely supplied and consumed willy nilly.

I would bet a fortune no class A illegal drug in this country will be either decriminalised or legalised in the next 20 years at least. And I very much doubt Cannabis will be either, and certainly not the predominant type, Skunk.

It is however big business as I am sure you know in some US states now and when a celeb like Jay-Z gets involved it shows how much money can be made legally from it. But we aren't the states and the resistance to illegal drugs here is very strong, its as much a moral point here as the damage the drug may do in my view. Basically government here doesn't want people to have easy legal access to things that can get you off your head over and above booze which they rely on tax wise.

I agree about the victim point, yes I think this will become more and more the stance legally, treatment not punishment. And even more needle exchanges and such like.

[Davey Dykes]

And there was me thinking political discussion wasn't allowed on here.

[willie loman]

No, I asked you a question willie, I'm not going to Google it   .

You reckon anyone should be legally allowed to sell heroin to whoever wants to buy it (over 18 of course)?

there have been changes in the law in switzerland, i believe, thats going back about 15 years, the point is, yet again you are ranting off about a subject, and are holding opinions that are the opposite to virtually all experts, there is no point in dialogue with you, as i observed there will be no change in the drug laws until people like you are dead. For the record, i have no interest or approval in heroine use, the one myth that needs to be knocked on the head, is that drugs turn people into arseholes, wrong, they were arseholes before they took drugs, and will continue to be arseholes when they come off them, but statistically they are of no concern, lets stop wasting public money on the war on drugs.

[winkywanky]

there have been changes in the law in switzerland, i believe, thats going back about 15 years, the point is, yet again you are ranting off about a subject, and are holding opinions that are the opposite to virtually all experts, there is no point in dialogue with you, as i observed there will be no change in the drug laws until people like you are dead. For the record, i have no interest or approval in heroine use, the one myth that needs to be knocked on the head, is that drugs turn people into arseholes, wrong, they were arseholes before they took drugs, and will continue to be arseholes when they come off them, but statistically they are of no concern, lets stop wasting public money on the war on drugs.

You made a blanket statement that all drugs will be made legal.

So I asked you a simple question  .

[daviemac]

And there was me thinking political discussion wasn't allowed on here.

As I understand it universal basic income is an economics issue, if it turns political it will go the same way as many others and be binned.

[willie loman]

You made a blanket statement that all drugs will be made legal.

So I asked you a simple question  .

i referred to the change coming in the nearish future. i will modify that to say in the advanced world, shithole areas of the world, russia, china, africa, the arab world will continue with their "war on drugs", and their medieval belief systems.

[chrishornx]

Sorry moderator
I cant post links because I'm not very computer literate

absolute bollocks

You find obscure search engines like  DuckDuck go, visit UN links  and suggest we 'have a look at the world economic forum official website'

you a pretty savvy at working your way round a computer 

[David1970]

i referred to the change coming in the nearish future. i will modify that to say in the advanced world, shithole areas of the world, russia, china, africa, the arab world will continue with their "war on drugs", and their medieval belief systems.

Willie have you visited any of those “shithole areas” recently?

[king tarzan]

Russians don't have it
Benefits are vitally non existent
But wages are low so are income taxes i think its 17%
On the other hand living costs are much lower too
I can't comment on China because I don't know
The UBI is a bit like tax credits in reverse..

Putin has eye of the 🐅 👊👊👊👊🥊🥊🥊👊👊👊🥊🥊🥊in him

[Colston36]

lockdown has shown that most people miss their jobs, very few people would wish to remain doing nothing, as for drugs there is no possibility in the nearish future that they will be illegal, the war on drugs is a bit like the childrens crusade or the witch craft trials, something futured generations will find baffling, countries that have legalised drugs, havent found that life has fallen apart.

Your comment is an understatement. I had a business in Lisbon for a few years. They had a DREADFUL drugs problem. Then they legalised them. Now they have no problem at all.

As you might expect, the U.S., having learned absolutely nothing from Prohibition's failure are busy with their idiotic war on drugs - which is just a way of keeping criminals in profit.

I wouldn't be in the least surprised if politicians were being bribed to keep it going.

[daviemac]

Your comment is an understatement. I had a business in Lisbon for a few years. They had a DREADFUL drugs problem. Then they legalised them. Now they have no problem at all.

As you might expect, the U.S., having learned absolutely nothing from Prohibition's failure are busy with their idiotic war on drugs - which is just a way of keeping criminals in profit.

I wouldn't be in the least surprised if politicians were being bribed to keep it going.

They didn't legalise drugs they decriminalized them. External Link/Members Only

[winkywanky]

i referred to the change coming in the nearish future. i will modify that to say in the advanced world, shithole areas of the world, russia, china, africa, the arab world will continue with their "war on drugs", and their medieval belief systems.

So you don't think legalising all recreational drugs is a good idea then?