Going green environmentally friendly

[Blackpool Rock]

Difficult to ignore offshore wind as the UK is uniquely placed to take advantage of it, and could generate a multiple of the UK's need for electricity, with hydrogen as a vector / storage medium, and interconnects with the European mainland. I think we already had this discussion! 

Yes it was on the electric car thread.

I do think that Govt have started to move in the right direction in the last few years on green energy, the problem is that the timescales for payback is often longer than any incumbent Govt will be in power so they actually have to think long term 

The UK should be at the forefront and a leader when it comes to green energy, we can't compete with countries like China on price of goods etc but innovation and new technologies is still an area where we can lead the way 

[lostandfound]

Yes it was on the electric car thread.

I do think that Govt have started to move in the right direction in the last few years on green energy, the problem is that the timescales for payback is often longer than any incumbent Govt will be in power so they actually have to think long term 

The UK should be at the forefront and a leader when it comes to green energy, we can't compete with countries like China on price of goods etc but innovation and new technologies is still an area where we can lead the way 

I agree. The UK should be a world leader in wind power (or more of one as we're doing quite well) - we already are in many aspects of offshore wind thanks to the legacy of North Sea oil, but for example we do not as yet have home grown manufacture of large turbine blades, which is a shame because we have the skills and experience in the country to do it. It is not unlike making the wing for a jet liner, and the wings for Airbus are made here in the UK.

[Watts.E.Dunn]

Difficult to ignore offshore wind as the UK is uniquely placed to take advantage of it, and could generate a multiple of the UK's need for electricity, with hydrogen as a vector / storage medium, and interconnects with the European mainland. I think we already had this discussion! 

Wind is not and nowhere near relaible enough even if we could store it all. A high pressure system accross the Uk and windmil is nill output, like right now today wind is managing .84 GW

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I'll seek it out but there was a report of Tidal, it would be very difficult to do apart from maybe the Bristorl chanel and or the Wash and thats not a tremendous amount.

What the real problem is is simple, its GAS!, we use it for heating and power generation that will in time run out and or get more expensive.

What we HAVE NOT got is the forsight of most anyone running the UK to see that and come tro that most of the rest of the world:(..

Let alone the ageing Nuclear fleet, and thats at most producing just under 6 GW on a good day!..

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[lostandfound]

Wind is not and nowhere near relaible enough even if we could store it all. A high pressure system accross the Uk and windmil is nill output, like right now today wind is managing .84 GW

External Link/Members Only

I'll seek it out but there was a report of Tidal, it would be very difficult to do apart from maybe the Bristorl chanel and or the Wash and thats not a tremendous amount.

What the real problem is is simple, its GAS!, we use it for heating and power generation that will in time run out and or get more expensive.

What we HAVE NOT got is the forsight of most anyone running the UK to see that and come tro that most of the rest of the world:(..

Let alone the ageing Nuclear fleet, and thats at most producing just under 6 GW on a good day!..

External Link/Members Only

We have had this discussion before. 

Renewables are intermittent so store the abundant energy produced by wind (and solar) using, for example hydrogen.

There are many other vectors for energy storage, as well as hydrogen. Hydrogen is a good fit for our existing oil and gas infrastructure which may be adapted for this new use.

Also, use the interconnects with the European mainland. The wind will always be blowing  / the sun will always be shining somewhere.

Gov wants to go for a mix anyway, with some nuclear, even though it is very expensive.

[Colston36]

mankind will never be able to repair the damage it’s caused

Anyone who watched David Attenborough's documentary knows it's going to take something of a miracle to prevent the earth being an extremely unpleasant place in 80 years.

And the older among us surely have noticed that some creatures we depend on are far less in number that they were when were young. Bees are one obvious example. No bees, no pollination. No pollination, no plants. Butterflies are another.

The polar ice is vanishing. More floods, more weird weather. Temperatures in Australia are getting unbearably high.

One of the chief reasons for Corona and other similar outbreaks is the shipping of rare animals like pangolins or bats from Indonesia to China for exotic food. The forests in which they live have been cut down to make things like McVitie's biscuits. Our grandchildren will be paying the price for all this.

I think we have lived through the best of times. The worst could be on the way.

[Blackpool Rock]

Anyone who watched David Attenborough's documentary knows it's going to take something of a miracle to prevent the earth being an extremely unpleasant place in 80 years.

And the older among us surely have noticed that some creatures we depend on are far less in number that they were when were young. Bees are one obvious example. No bees, no pollination. No pollination, no plants. Butterflies are another.

The polar ice is vanishing. More floods, more weird weather. Temperatures in Australia are getting unbearably high.

One of the chief reasons for Corona and other similar outbreaks is the shipping of rare animals like pangolins or bats from Indonesia to China for exotic food. The forests in which they live have been cut down to make things like McVitie's biscuits. Our grandchildren will be paying the price for all this.

I think we have lived through the best of times. The worst could be on the way.

Other insects also pollinate, little known fact is that wasps actually also pollinate despite people always being told they have no positive benefits (as they don't produce honey), I believe they also eat meat and are good at keeping bug numbers down, enough of this insect discrimination I say 

What's the McVities thing then, palm oil presumably 

[lostandfound]

Other insects also pollinate, little known fact is that wasps actually also pollinate despite people always being told they have no positive benefits (as they don't produce honey), I believe they also eat meat and are good at keeping bug numbers down, enough of this insect discrimination I say 

What's the McVities thing then, palm oil presumably 

Are you in fact a Curio? 

[Pete123]

All creatures have a purpose in the ecosystem
Just some are more obvious than others..
I read somewhere once that for every disease there is a natural cure somewhere, and many of these cures lurk in the rainforests....

[Watts.E.Dunn]

We have had this discussion before. 

Renewables are intermittent so store the abundant energy produced by wind (and solar) using, for example hydrogen.

There are many other vectors for energy storage, as well as hydrogen. Hydrogen is a good fit for our existing oil and gas infrastructure which may be adapted for this new use.

Also, use the interconnects with the European mainland. The wind will always be blowing  / the sun will always be shining somewhere.

Gov wants to go for a mix anyway, with some nuclear, even though it is very expensive.

Yes we have had this discussion before and the outcome is very much the same. Renewables just do not hack it, look at this evenings demand, 34GW wind supplied 1GW yes just One Gigawatt. Even if you covered the whole country with windmills and most of the  sea and coast, if the wind isnt blowing then the windmills do not output enough power to met our demand need.

That situation can go on for several days and even if you had a viable storage system how would you meet the usual evening winter demand of say 50 to 55 GW if all you havce ius a few GW of wind?.?.

Right now we've got some coal filling in!

Thats the real issue and yet if we are to decarbonise we've got to use less Gas another fossill, what are you to replace that with?.

[Watts.E.Dunn]

The polar ice is vanishing. More floods, more weird weather. Temperatures in Australia are getting unbearably high.

Someones now got a theory of the magnetic poles shifting isnt helping that!.

Be a reall bugger of the whole field collapses:(.

[Blackpool Rock]

Yes we have had this discussion before and the outcome is very much the same. Renewables just do not hack it, look at this evenings demand, 34GW wind supplied 1GW yes just One Gigawatt. Even if you covered the whole country with windmills and most of the  sea and coast, if the wind isnt blowing then the windmills do not output enough power to met our demand need.

That situation can go on for several days and even if you had a viable storage system how would you meet the usual evening winter demand of say 50 to 55 GW if all you havce ius a few GW of wind?.?.

Right now we've got some coal filling in!

Thats the real issue and yet if we are to decarbonise we've got to use less Gas another fossill, what are you to replace that with?.

The outcome is the same in that the same people are saying the same things however peoples perceptions are different so your decision on what the outcome is varies to mine.
I'm not saying you are fundamentally against wind and solar etc but your conclusion appears to be that they aren't any good as the wind doesn't blow all the time and the sun doesn't always shine.

Show me on either of the threads where anyone has suggested that we rely solely on wind or solar 

The stance is that you use a combination of different power sources which compliment each other so -
Wind when the wind is blowing and if there is an excess use the excess to store compressed hydrogen for use when the wind isn't blowing.
Solar again when it's sunny and also tidal / wave which is reliable and needs to be explored

In the short term we still need to use more traditional methods such as gas but coal needs to be got rid of completely and most of those power stations have been converted to burn waste wood chips instead.
Nuclear may be carbon free but it costs a lot especially when you factor in decommissioning and then there is always the potential for a melt down 

The country also needs to get to grips with small scale projects such as ground source heating systems for every new housing estate that's built and why not have solar panels on all new houses etc.
We need to start thinking outside the box, if every house generates a proportion of it's own energy requirement then we don't need so many large power plants or it helps to ensure the big projects can then service all of the demand

[lostandfound]

Yes we have had this discussion before and the outcome is very much the same. Renewables just do not hack it, look at this evenings demand, 34GW wind supplied 1GW yes just One Gigawatt. Even if you covered the whole country with windmills and most of the  sea and coast, if the wind isnt blowing then the windmills do not output enough power to met our demand need.

That situation can go on for several days and even if you had a viable storage system how would you meet the usual evening winter demand of say 50 to 55 GW if all you havce ius a few GW of wind?.?.

Right now we've got some coal filling in!

Thats the real issue and yet if we are to decarbonise we've got to use less Gas another fossill, what are you to replace that with?.

But they do hack it. Everyone knows they are intermittent and storage solutions are being developed and implemented. And these storage solutions can be low tech and easily deployed.

Your favoured Rolls Royce PWR SMRs are being supported by gov investment so it is not as if they are not expected to form part of future energy generation in the UK, but they would be just part of the mix, with most energy probably coming from renewables.

Let's see where we are by the end of the decade because these programmes are in progress, both renewables / energy storage and SMRs.

btw Rolls Royce also have a foot in the renewables camp as they are adopting fuel cell technology developed by Mercedes truck division, which will also be used in upcoming Mercedes and Volvo trucks. External Link/Members Only

[VolapUK]

As I understand it the problem with plastic is that it does not break down, it encases just about everything and will be with us forever.

I've lived in countries where all types of plastic are recycled. But here in the UK it's quite a different story - there are so many types that are "not currently recycled" 

[Pete123]

I found an interesting article from the cato institute from December 10 2020
It takes a bit of reading but might also give a clue as to what's maybe happening going forward
Red meat may be banned and lab grown red meat will be consumed, private car journeys will be restricted,amongst other things, mostly people will work from home...
And we will all live in our local areas..
The lockdowns  are conditioning the population to stay within their own areas
If it stops climate change perhaps it's a good thing
I must say with time on my hands I've been looking more at green stuff, and was looking to putting a wind turbine on the house to make some electricity, but I'll wait a while until the technology has improved a bit, as the turbines are getting smaller and more efficient and cheaper

[RogerBoner]

I found an interesting article from the cato institute from December 10 2020
I've been looking more at green stuff, and was looking to putting a wind turbine on the house to make some electricity,

You're a bright spark 
Your house would collapse because of the vibrations, or take off into the sky.

[David1970]

I found an interesting article from the cato institute from December 10 2020
It takes a bit of reading but might also give a clue as to what's maybe happening going forward
Red meat may be banned and lab grown red meat will be consumed, private car journeys will be restricted,amongst other things, mostly people will work from home...
And we will all live in our local areas..
The lockdowns  are conditioning the population to stay within their own areas
If it stops climate change perhaps it's a good thing
I must say with time on my hands I've been looking more at green stuff, and was looking to putting a wind turbine on the house to make some electricity, but I'll wait a while until the technology has improved a bit, as the turbines are getting smaller and more efficient and cheaper

Do you believe global warming is man made?

[lostandfound]

I found an interesting article from the cato institute from December 10 2020
It takes a bit of reading but might also give a clue as to what's maybe happening going forward
Red meat may be banned and lab grown red meat will be consumed, private car journeys will be restricted,amongst other things, mostly people will work from home...
And we will all live in our local areas..
The lockdowns  are conditioning the population to stay within their own areas
If it stops climate change perhaps it's a good thing
I must say with time on my hands I've been looking more at green stuff, and was looking to putting a wind turbine on the house to make some electricity, but I'll wait a while until the technology has improved a bit, as the turbines are getting smaller and more efficient and cheaper

Not going to happen IMO. Glass half empty numbskull mantra. Tech will continue to improve our lives and personal freedoms and fix climate change.

[Pete123]

Tech will improve our lives... yes, but it will also rule our lives, eventually AI and algorithms will make the decisions for you. Once cashless comes in what's to stop an algorithm preventing you buying some alcohol because your seen to be consuming too much,

[daviemac]

Tech will improve our lives... yes, but it will also rule our lives, eventually AI and algorithms will make the decisions for you. Once cashless comes in what's to stop an algorithm preventing you buying some alcohol because your seen to be consuming too much,

Yeah, right, OK. 

[Blackpool Rock]

Not going to happen IMO. Glass half empty numbskull mantra. Tech will continue to improve our lives and personal freedoms and fix climate change.

Yes I have heard of schemes using the excess power from wind farms etc being used to capture carbon from the atmosphere and start to undo some of the damage