A Covid-19 vaccine at last!

[Doc Holliday]

The problem is how do you counter the massive anti vax conspiracy market.  And it is a market - there are people making big bucks from promoting these conspiracy theories. 

I found this a somewhat depressing watch External Link/Members Only

[kuck]

@petermisc 100%

I am a skeptic, and it is right that claims need to meet an evidentiary threshold, as scientific progress requires.
It is useful to question the zoonotic origin theory, side effects, and in fact everything. I think I am right in completely supporting skepticism, and the scientific method.

The problem with the covid discourse is that a lot of nutjobs and clickbait monetising conspiracy hypothesisers ( a real term coined by a major offender) "just ask questions".
While the honest good faith person takes pains to stay within bounds of evidence, the nutjob just asks questions.

None of this is to say that mistakes weren't made in our handling of the pandemic. But perhaps they don't overwhelmingly point to numpty fantasies like microchips, wef, 15 minute galaxies, *mectin panaceas etc.

[PilotMan]

Btw. I've had the vaccine, and wish I could have it removed.

Derek Draper wished that the vaccine was available before he caught Covid. I'm sure he would have taken your shot.

[badsin]

He may well off.
My opinion differs

[puntingking]

I found this a somewhat depressing watch External Link/Members Only

sky news says "4% of the Uk population believes in this (thats 2 million people in the uk). According to the comments would maybe suggests that it is most likely higher than 4% seeing as though most of the youtube comments are in support of the festival goers at that event. 

[Thephoenix]

I found this a somewhat depressing watch External Link/Members Only

Very depressing and exasperating.
Really lost for words.

£100 to attend.
There's obviously money to be made in conspiracy theories. 

[PilotMan]

Very depressing and exasperating.
Really lost for words.

£100 to attend.
There's obviously money to be made in conspiracy theories. 

A fool and his money are soon parted.

£100 to park your camper in a muddy field - that gives me a business idea, 200 cars / vans = £20k for a weekend + Merchandise - it's a winner ££.

I'm running a festival this summer - anyone up for it?

[scutty brown]

A fool and his money are soon parted.

£100 to park your camper in a muddy field - that gives me a business idea, 200 cars / vans = £20k for a weekend + Merchandise - it's a winner ££.

I'm running a festival this summer - anyone up for it?

Pay me a £10K deposit now and I'll bring along the green lizards who live next door. Promise, really

More seriously, I know where that stone circle is where they were parked. It's up a rough old track, surprised they didn't bust the cars getting there.

[PepeMAGA]

Herein lies the problem, i'll accept that some of the vaccines did for instance give a slight increase in the risk of getting a blood clot and there were a handful of deaths attributed to this however people jumped on the bandwagon and got wound up about a few deaths while ignoring 1000's of deaths every day due to covid itself 
And that's before you then take into consideration the fact that there was an increased risk of getting a blood clot from covid itself which was a higher risk than from the vaccine 

I try to take a step back so you can see the full picture and get a balanced viewpoint, the problem is that far too many people don't seem capable of actually weighing up all the information or when presented with just one side thinking and asking "what information am I missing here or is this source steering me in a certain direction and why"

I think the cult on both sides hasn't helped.
On one side you have people that wanted very young children to get it, people that had already had the virus to get it.... completely ostracized those that wouldn't get it etc.
On the other hand you have the other end of the scale, with thinking it has no value at all and was just an ( evil) money making scheme for big pharma.

[Colston36]

Well your NHS must be different to my NHS because they don't ask for a test for consultations or procedures. Even oncology.

Your NHS is indeed different. I had a whole battery of tests, repeated, before my TURP operation four months ago.

[Colston36]

It is remarkable that vaccination, first developed in China far back in antiquity, and brouight here in the 18th century by Lady Wortley Momtague is still not trusted by the ignorant.

[PumpDump]

It is remarkable that vaccination, first developed in China far back in antiquity, and brouight here in the 18th century by Lady Wortley Momtague is still not trusted by the ignorant.

MRNA is not traditional vaccination. It is gene therapy rebranded.

[kuck]

MRNA is not traditional vaccination. It is gene therapy rebranded.

Seems you neither know what an mRNA vaccine is, not do you know what gene therapy is. Or at least are confused about one of the terms, to think they are the same.

[PumpDump]

Seems you neither know what an mRNA vaccine is, not do you know what gene therapy is. Or at least are confused about one of the terms, to think they are the same.

Yes you are correct, I am mistaken. But MRNA is a new treatment, not a traditional vaccine, and has never been deployed on such a scale before.

[Doc Holliday]

Yes you are correct, I am mistaken.

Or perhaps it was just another joke? 

You are missing Colston's point. Throughout history vaccines have always been opposed by a section of people. All those vaccines were new technology at the time. The AZ covid vaccine was based on more traditional vaccines and in more recent times the anti vaccination movement, gained momentum with the, MMR vaccination (also traditional, though combined)

The level of opposition now though is on a scale never before seen and courtesy of the internet. This has huge implications when the next pandemic arrives.

[PilotMan]

I fear that PumpDump may well be right.

COVID-19 vaccines were developed and approved rapidly in response to the urgency created by the pandemic. No specific regulations existed at the time they were marketed. The regulatory agencies therefore adapted them as a matter of urgency. Now that the pandemic emergency has passed, it is time to consider the safety issues associated with this rapid approval. The mode of action of COVID-19 mRNA vaccines should classify them as gene therapy products (GTPs), but they have been excluded by regulatory agencies.

External Link/Members Only

[kuck]

...
The level of opposition now though is on a scale never before seen and courtesy of the internet. This has huge implications when the next pandemic arrives.

Sadly not just the next pandemic, but we might see a resurgence of diseases we have had under control.

As an example, thanks to the Taliban being a bunch of explosive anti-vax conspiracy theorists, Polio still hasn't yet been eradicated globally.

[kuck]

I fear that PumpDump may well be right.

COVID-19 vaccines were developed and approved rapidly in response to the urgency created by the pandemic. No specific regulations existed at the time they were marketed. The regulatory agencies therefore adapted them as a matter of urgency. Now that the pandemic emergency has passed, it is time to consider the safety issues associated with this rapid approval. The mode of action of COVID-19 mRNA vaccines should classify them as gene therapy products (GTPs), but they have been excluded by regulatory agencies.

External Link/Members Only

Just because a paper is posted on the nih website doesn't make it reliable.

As an example, here is bunch of religious nutjobs claiming that camel urine is the ultimate panacea 
External Link/Members Only

[PumpDump]

I note that MRNA is referred to mRNA therapy here:

External Link/Members Only

Why is it called a "vaccination" when treating Covid, but a "therapy" when treating other conditions?

[kuck]

I note that MRNA is referred to mRNA therapy here:

External Link/Members Only

Why is it called a "vaccination" when treating Covid, but a "therapy" when treating other conditions?

I could at least attempt to explain this, but I'm not sure what the point would be. You're opposed to both, aren't you?

[PumpDump]

I could at least attempt to explain this, but I'm not sure what the point would be. You're opposed to both, aren't you?

I am not opposed to any medical treatment which has undergone thorough testing and both benefits and risks are know, and explained to the patient. I don't like to be a guinea pig.

[kuck]

I am not opposed to any medical treatment which has undergone thorough testing and both benefits and risks are know, and explained to the patient. I don't like to be a guinea pig.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the Covid-19 context of this thread, you think the term mRNA vaccine is used as a euphemism for gene therapy.

I'm probably being an idiot in trying to explain this, but

Vaccines work by teaching our immune systems to fight pathogens, or specifically proteins in pathogens.
mRNA in vaccines produce proteins in our cells that our immune system fights, and learns how to attack similar proteins in the pathogen.

In the link you shared, mRNA Therapy for Cystic Fibrosis, mRNA is used to produce a protein that's absent (or incorrect) in sufferers. In this case they don't call it a vaccine because the immune system is not being schooled.

[puntingking]

Very depressing and exasperating.
Really lost for words.

£100 to attend.
There's obviously money to be made in conspiracy theories. 

to be fair that price seems fair as it was a festival and it be hard to find a festival where you camp at cheaper than that.

Glastonbury festival is like £400, sacred arts festival was like £240.

I get it that you think there is alot for the organisers to gain but they do have to pay for any special guests that they had, any licencing that they may of needed, other employers that they needed there. By looking at the sky news footage it don't seem like there were more than 100+ people there. 

[puntingking]

I found this a somewhat depressing watch External Link/Members Only

I found the footage quite intrigueing and interesting. It actially makes me want to speak to these people to get their persepective on things.

How can it be depressing if someone just thinks differently than you and I may do. Let live and let live is my outlook. Sky news did quite well in just reporting what they were saying or experiencing rather than pointing fun at them. Quite good reporting if you ask me.

Note - ignore the spelling mistakes. 

[PilotMan]

The speaker Mark Steele is proper off the scale ready for the nut house.

It was telling that he claimed that Rishi Sunak comes from a third world country, the reporter had to point out to him he was British and born in Southampton.

I'll just bear in mind on my next drive through London that Rishi Sunak is going to kill me with a death ray from the ULEZ cameras and the 5G network.

Does anyone know where I can buy a tin hat 

[Blackpool Rock]

Or perhaps it was just another joke? 

You are missing Colston's point. Throughout history vaccines have always been opposed by a section of people. All those vaccines were new technology at the time. The AZ covid vaccine was based on more traditional vaccines and in more recent times the anti vaccination movement, gained momentum with the, MMR vaccination (also traditional, though combined)

The level of opposition now though is on a scale never before seen and courtesy of the internet. This has huge implications when the next pandemic arrives.

Yeah the anti MMR campaign is having a direct effect and children are now dying as a result, that twat Andrew Wakefield was a big player in that and ended up being struck off as a result
What the anti vax brigade who just jump on the bandwagon probably don't realise is that Wakefield had a vested interest in the MMR vaccine failing as he actually had a something to do with a rival vaccine for one of these illnesses 

[Doc Holliday]

How can it be depressing if someone just thinks differently than you and I may do.

You think I find things depressing if people don't share my views?

If that was the case I would have spent most of my life addicted to Prozac 

Yes I thought it was a well put together piece by Sky 

[Squire Haggard]

I found this a somewhat depressing watch External Link/Members Only

It is depressing. They have found ''evidence that 9/11 was an inside job.'' 

Maybe they have found the identity of the person that planted explosives in each floor of the twin towers.
The ''proof'' is that they collapsed in a ''strange way''. 

[puntingking]

The speaker Mark Steele is proper off the scale ready for the nut house.

It was telling that he claimed that Rishi Sunak comes from a third world country, the reporter had to point out to him he was British and born in Southampton.

I'll just bear in mind on my next drive through London that Rishi Sunak is going to kill me with a death ray from the ULEZ cameras and the 5G network.

Does anyone know where I can buy a tin hat 

I do think these views should be expressed more on the mainstream so there can be a proper debate on conspiracy theories issues. On the mild side it is abit of fun but  on the extreme end will cause panic and maniac depression  to someone who would believe all of them. A healthy discussion is always best. 

[puntingking]

It is depressing. They have found ''evidence that 9/11 was an inside job.'' 

Maybe they have found the identity of the person that planted explosives in each floor of the twin towers.
The ''proof'' is that they collapsed in a ''strange way''. 

to be fair you would properly find a big chunk of society who believes in this.

[PilotMan]

to be fair you would properly find a big chunk of society who believes in this.

They're also the ones that believe the moon landings were staged, and that the world is controlled by reptiles living in human form.

[advent2016]

They're also the ones that believe the moon landings were staged, and that the world is controlled by reptiles living in human form.

A disproportionate number of my ex-colleagues from different branches of the armed services share these and many even more outlandish conspiracy theories.  It used to worry me that I walked among people with weapons that could kill dozens of people and systems that could kill thousands in seconds. Thankfully the chain of command is so strong soldiers rarely do anything without an express order from above.

[PilotMan]

A disproportionate number of my ex-colleagues from different branches of the armed services share these and many even more outlandish conspiracy theories.  It used to worry me that I walked among people with weapons that could kill dozens of people and systems that could kill thousands in seconds. Thankfully the chain of command is so strong soldiers rarely do anything without an express order from above.

I think these types are the "dangerous" ones, they actually do walk among us in human form and don't have distinguishing features such as a lizard tongue 

But they would blame their actions on the chemtrails 

[myothernameis]

It looks like there a very nasty covid variant going around, and so far in my work, 3 staff have phoned in sick, after testing positive for covid.  They have had nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea, fever, and in general they have never felt so sick, and its floored them

When they took ill, the vomiting just came out of no where, no real warning

[RandomGuy99]

It looks like there a very nasty covid variant going around, and so far in my work, 3 staff have phoned in sick, after testing positive for covid.  They have had nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea, fever, and in general they have never felt so sick, and its floored them

When they took ill, the vomiting just came out of no where, no real warning

Hopefully the very hot weather will kill it off

[Blackpool Rock]

It looks like there a very nasty covid variant going around, and so far in my work, 3 staff have phoned in sick, after testing positive for covid.  They have had nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea, fever, and in general they have never felt so sick, and its floored them

When they took ill, the vomiting just came out of no where, no real warning

Is covid testing still a "Thing", I had those home test kits 4 or 5 years ago through my employer but the NHS / Govt / whoever stopped sending them out (I believe you could still get them if you paid)

Those symptoms sound more like Norovirus than covid, could it be that they have Norovirus but also covid at the same time 

Covid will always be with us but as it mutated it appeared to get less serious certainly unless individuals had underlying health conditions 

[Strawberry]

Is covid testing still a "Thing", I had those home test kits 4 or 5 years ago through my employer but the NHS / Govt / whoever stopped sending them out (I believe you could still get them if you paid)

Those symptoms sound more like Norovirus than covid, could it be that they have Norovirus but also covid at the same time 

Covid will always be with us but as it mutated it appeared to get less serious certainly unless individuals had underlying health conditions 

A new, recent variant does indeed have sickness, nausea, diarrhea as symptoms.

External Link/Members Only

Test kits can be bought from many shops - they have them near the till in the local Tesco, Coop, Boots. I buy them online in boxes of 25 either from Boots or direct from Flow Flex. I test twice a week sometimes more often if I am feeling peaky, or am about to see someone I know is extra vulnerable. Ineligible for vaccine boosters I have bought these and am totally up to date with those. I did catch covid for the second time every beginning of  [this] June  first case was almost exactly 3 years ago in 2022. My symptoms were feeling of a cold coming on, I didn't cough, ached from head to toe for several days, and definitely below par. The one person who did catch it from me coughed and 'streamed' a lot. Before I caught covid for the first time I was always a 'cougher' so it's a revelation that I do not cough when I have covid. Instead seems to affect sinus and this time ears.  I do know of other people who have had covid in the last month, including someone who really suffers as a result of medication related lowered immune system.

I also believe many do not realise they have it because they do not test, and assume they simply have a cold.

[PumpDump]

Maybe a stupid question, but what is the point in testing for Covid? You test positive, so what. How is it any different than having the flu? Common sense would dictate you should avoid contact with others, especially vulnerable people if it is covid, flu or common cold. Am I missing something?

[Squire Haggard]

It looks like there a very nasty covid variant going around, and so far in my work, 3 staff have phoned in sick, after testing positive for covid.  They have had nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea, fever, and in general they have never felt so sick, and its floored them

When they took ill, the vomiting just came out of no where, no real warning

I've not kept up with the latest news about Covid. It sounds like its worse than I had thought. Its not good news if its still around during the summer months as well. 

[qarma]

Maybe a stupid question, but what is the point in testing for Covid?

I agree, it seems a stupid thing to do. However, some employers still have a "stay-at-home" policy if you test positive for covid and they will pay you to stay at home, whereas if you call in sick with a bad back they may pay you nothing (in accordance with their sick pay policy).

So, some people when they get a runny nose they reach for a covid test.....

[PumpDump]

I agree, it seems a stupid thing to do. However, some employers still have a "stay-at-home" policy if you test positive for covid and they will pay you to stay at home, whereas if you call in sick with a bad back they may pay you nothing (in accordance with their sick pay policy).

So, some people when they get a runny nose they reach for a covid test.....

Haha makes sense. Now that you mention it, although it doesn't happen anymore, the people in my workplace who most commonly "tested  positive for covid" also happened to be the ones most workshy.

[RedKettle]

Maybe a stupid question, but what is the point in testing for Covid? You test positive, so what. How is it any different than having the flu? Common sense would dictate you should avoid contact with others, especially vulnerable people if it is covid, flu or common cold. Am I missing something?

Whilst for a younger fit person it makes little difference if a cold or Covid the difference can be life or death for an older vulnerable person. So I am guessing that people test if they work with or are visiting someone who is vulnerable. It is often not a simple choice to stay away if you have cold symptoms as the absence of your visit could have a detrimental impact on that person.  People are just doing their best to manage conflicting risks.

[Doc Holliday]

Maybe a stupid question, but what is the point in testing for Covid? You test positive, so what. How is it any different than having the flu? Common sense would dictate you should avoid contact with others, especially vulnerable people if it is covid, flu or common cold. Am I missing something?

You are correct there is IMO no point in testing for the vast majority of situations.

Exceptions include immunocompromised patients or those who for whatever reason are especially vulnerable and where it can be beneficial to know what you are dealing with to allow appropriate treatment.

[hamchang]

I've not kept up with the latest news about Covid. It sounds like its worse than I had thought. Its not good news if its still around during the summer months as well. 

So if you had not decided to catch up on the "news" about it you would be completely unaware? Funny that heh.

[scutty brown]

Maybe a stupid question, but what is the point in testing for Covid? You test positive, so what. How is it any different than having the flu? Common sense would dictate you should avoid contact with others, especially vulnerable people if it is covid, flu or common cold. Am I missing something?

Depends on your job. If I was still working as a contractor in the NHS I'd probably still be testing twice a week due to the risk to others.
But I'm not so what's the point?

[Lou2019]

Haha makes sense. Now that you mention it, although it doesn't happen anymore, the people in my workplace who most commonly "tested  positive for covid" also happened to be the ones most workshy.

I’m surprised your employer doesn't ask for a photo of the positive test (I sent them to my employer out of courtesy)

[Doc Holliday]

Depends on your job. If I was still working as a contractor in the NHS I'd probably still be testing twice a week due to the risk to others.

No routine NHS staff testing stopped sometime in 2023 

[PumpDump]

I’m surprised your employer doesn't ask for a photo of the positive test (I sent them to my employer out of courtesy)

That doesn't prove anything. It could be a photo of anybody's test. So many people gamed Covid.

[Squire Haggard]

So if you had not decided to catch up on the "news" about it you would be completely unaware? Funny that heh.

Yup, its a funny old world. I did not know how bad the new variant could be until I read on here about those that had caught it.

[Lou2019]

That doesn't prove anything. It could be a photo of anybody's test. So many people gamed Covid.

“gamed COVID” what does that even mean?