A Covid-19 vaccine at last!

[timsussex]

Had my 4th (or was it 5th?) COVID jab today Pfizer one - so that completes my set having had AZ and Moderna previously.

Was given a 4 page a4 leaflet after the jab covered with small print
One full page gives  details of how to store, pack sizes and disposal
half a page with details of marketing and manufacturing companies
half a page listing contents - useful if you are an organic chemist otherwise you will only recognise water - and sucrose
a long paragraph about pregnancy -  I skipped that
A page with details of side effects
very common (more than 1 in 10) included injection pain site, tiredness, headaches, muscle pain, chills, joint pain, diarrhoea
common (1 in 10) includes nausea and vomiting
uncommon ( up to 1 in a 100) includes feeling unwell and sore arm

so you can have headaches, muscle pain, vomiting, diarrhoea (which are common) but not feel unwell (as that's uncommon) ???

[Strawberry]

Had my 4th (or was it 5th?) COVID jab today Pfizer one - so that completes my set having had AZ and Moderna previously.

Was given a 4 page a4 leaflet after the jab covered with small print
One full page gives  details of how to store, pack sizes and disposal
half a page with details of marketing and manufacturing companies
half a page listing contents - useful if you are an organic chemist otherwise you will only recognise water - and sucrose
a long paragraph about pregnancy -  I skipped that
A page with details of side effects
very common (more than 1 in 10) included injection pain site, tiredness, headaches, muscle pain, chills, joint pain, diarrhoea
common (1 in 10) includes nausea and vomiting
uncommon ( up to 1 in a 100) includes feeling unwell and sore arm

so you can have headaches, muscle pain, vomiting, diarrhoea (which are common) but not feel unwell (as that's uncommon) ???

You are correct that doesn't make sense unless it means unwell in some other form, and sore arm as in the limb not the injection site.

[advent2016]

I tested positive today so I'll be staying home, ordering from Ocado etc. obviously no punting
I often drive  quite elderly people about to shopping and medical appointments. I'll probably stay home until no positive line for two days.

I noticed that I can't report a positive test any (on the public site) more but can still order test kits through work.

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[PumpDump]

I tested positive today so I'll be staying home, ordering from Ocado etc. obviously no punting
I often drive  quite elderly people about to shopping and medical appointments. I'll probably stay home until no positive line for two days.

I noticed that I can't report a positive test any (on the public site) more but can still order test kits through work.

External Link/Members Only


Hidden Image/Members Only

Interested in why you would test? You say you have contact with old people. But regardless, if it's covid, traditional flu or a cold, you should stay away from them anyway. Why do you need to know if it's Covid or not?

[puntingking]

I tested positive today so I'll be staying home, ordering from Ocado etc. obviously no punting
I often drive  quite elderly people about to shopping and medical appointments. I'll probably stay home until no positive line for two days.

I noticed that I can't report a positive test any (on the public site) more but can still order test kits through work.

External Link/Members Only


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cause its not needed. If your unwell then the test does not matter. if you are well then the test does not matter. if it is covid or not covid then it does not matter.

[Blackpool Rock]

cause its not needed. If your unwell then the test does not matter. if you are well then the test does not matter. if it is covid or not covid then it does not matter.

I was unwell a few weeks ago. I caught a virus from somewhere. I was not like you and did not inform the whole forum that I had a virus. 

I took his post not as informing the whole forum that he had covid but pointing out that you can't report the results anymore, it actually raises the question of how do they know how many people have covid now and whether rates are high or low 

Perhaps not such an issue now that mutations of the virus appear to have less severe health consequences and vulnerable groups have access to vaccines but anyway

[PepeMAGA]

I took his post not as informing the whole forum that he had covid but pointing out that you can't report the results anymore, it actually raises the question of how do they know how many people have covid now and whether rates are high or low 

Perhaps not such an issue now that mutations of the virus appear to have less severe health consequences and vulnerable groups have access to vaccines but anyway

I guess if you were hospitalized or died as a result they would record that, but not for routine illnesses

[daviemac]

cause its not needed. If your unwell then the test does not matter. if you are well then the test does not matter. if it is covid or not covid then it does not matter.

Strange, I have a hospital appointment coming up in a few weeks but if it doesn't matter why have I got to contact them so they can change my appointment if I have tested positive for Covid, suspect I have Covid or if I have been in contact with a definite case of Covid. Seems the NHS take a different view to you.   

Oh and if I was going in for a procedure I may need to take a Covid test.

[PumpDump]

Strange, I have a hospital appointment coming up in a few weeks but if it doesn't matter why have I got to contact them so they can change my appointment if I have tested positive for Covid, suspect I have Covid or if I have been in contact with a definite case of Covid. Seems the NHS take a different view to you.   

Oh and if I was going in for a procedure I may need to take a Covid test.

Well your NHS must be different to my NHS because they don't ask for a test for consultations or procedures. Even oncology.

[daviemac]

Well your NHS must be different to my NHS because they don't ask for a test for consultations or procedures. Even oncology.

Read my post again because what you are saying is not what I said.

I did not say they ask for a test and I said they MAY ask me to take a Covid test.

That said it has been 13 days since they sent the letter out so perhaps it's changed.   


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[Watts.E.Dunn]

Anyways Davie, hope the appointment goes well and a positive outcome:)

Anyone seen that prog on ITV called "Breathtaking all about a NHS hospital in the early days of Covid?..

[PumpDump]

Read my post again because what you are saying is not what I said.

I did not say they ask for a test and I said they MAY ask me to take a Covid test.

That said it has been 13 days since they sent the letter out so perhaps it's changed.   


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I'm not saying I disbelieve you, I am pointing out that different policies are being followed. Because for relatives of mine who are dealing with NHS, nothing is mentioned about tests, vaccine or masks anymore.

[daviemac]

Anyways Davie, hope the appointment goes well and a positive outcome:)

Anyone seen that prog on ITV called "Breathtaking all about a NHS hospital in the early days of Covid?..

Cheers mate, it's just another check up this time, will need surgery sometime this year to replace the pacemaker, the battery's getting low. 

[PumpDump]

Cheers mate, it's just another check up this time, will need surgery sometime this year to replace the pacemaker, the battery's getting low.

Likewise, hope it all goes well.

[catweazle]

I took his post not as informing the whole forum that he had covid but pointing out that you can't report the results anymore, it actually raises the question of how do they know how many people have covid now and whether rates are high or low 

Perhaps not such an issue now that mutations of the virus appear to have less severe health consequences and vulnerable groups have access to vaccines but anyway

The huge ONS covid infection  survey, which produced the statistics on how many people had covid was scaled back as the pandemic  eased. It moved from hundreds of workers collecting samples (initially  swabs and blood later) to self reporting online  by the selected individuals.
It does  however  continue  albeit at a lower number. 
I'm a part of it and have just ( last week) done my February test.

[advent2016]

There's still plenty of surveys collecting data and testing new drugs related to Covid strains
take for example External Link/Members Only

I occasionally work in a place where they still test using lateral flow/PCR and other methods. A fail means work from home and two consecutive negative home tests before returning. It's one of the few, countable on one hand where as a contractor they will pay me when off sick at home. I still tinker with spreadsheets, AI, reviewing program code, watching cat videos and invigilating online exams etc . I actually like being in an "office" a few days a week where I can further refine my trade for the few remaining years before I'm replaced by an AI robot.

I estimate I've had Covid about 10 times since 2022, approx 6 verified through testing, all with common symptoms like loss of taste. This time it's been like the worst or the worst colds that disappears after a few days and comes back with flu like symptoms, abates then the runny nose, painful chest, limbs, joints, ears etc.

I have some reviews to submit and I'll note they were before I tested positive for Covid if that doesn't break any current rules.

[daviemac]

There's still plenty of surveys collecting data and testing new drugs related to Covid strains
take for example External Link/Members Only

There's also a new 2-year study, which I'm taking part in, that aims to establish if antibody testing can identify who remains at greatest risk of severe COVID-19 infection after vaccinations.

External Link/Members Only

Not that Covid matters any more of course.   

[Colston36]

Had my 4th (or was it 5th?) COVID jab today Pfizer one - so that completes my set having had AZ and Moderna previously.

Was given a 4 page a4 leaflet after the jab covered with small print
One full page gives  details of how to store, pack sizes and disposal
half a page with details of marketing and manufacturing companies
half a page listing contents - useful if you are an organic chemist otherwise you will only recognise water - and sucrose
a long paragraph about pregnancy -  I skipped that
A page with details of side effects
very common (more than 1 in 10) included injection pain site, tiredness, headaches, muscle pain, chills, joint pain, diarrhoea
common (1 in 10) includes nausea and vomiting
uncommon ( up to 1 in a 100) includes feeling unwell and sore arm

so you can have headaches, muscle pain, vomiting, diarrhoea (which are common) but not feel unwell (as that's uncommon) ???

Their order seems the opposite of logical to me.

[myothernameis]

Well your NHS must be different to my NHS because they don't ask for a test for consultations or procedures. Even oncology.

I have had a few appointments, to see cardiologists, and a number of tests, and with regards covid test.  In my appointment letter, this is where is was explained, so if I came in contact with someone with covid, I should test myself.  If I was unwell in any way, i should rearrange my appointment for another time

Dec I had a angiogram done, in local hospital, and wasnt even asked to take a covid test, but the letter had already covered this

[Doc Holliday]

The latest protocol in relation to testing (April 2023) in healthcare settings is here External Link/Members Only.

There is also a summary here for Social Care External Link/Members Only

The emphasis has changed in that Covid is grouped with all the other Acute Respiratory Illnesses (ARIs) and it is about identifying and protecting those who are vulnerable and ensuring they have access to treatment options which the majority of the population no longer need.

IMO this is at long last good practice, as prior to Covid those vulnerable to ARIs were not really protected much at all.

Covid is still potentially more of a risk for some of those vulnerable so it is fortunate that we have a reasonably reliable rapid test to identify this. Covid is still much more transmissable in comparison to other ARIs There is no comparable rapid test for example flu and which requires a laboratory analysis and so is not carried out routinely.

[daviemac]

The latest protocol in relation to testing (April 2023) in healthcare settings is here External Link/Members Only.

There is also a summary here for Social Care External Link/Members Only

The emphasis has changed in that Covid is grouped with all the other Acute Respiratory Illnesses (ARIs) and it is about identifying and protecting those who are vulnerable and ensuring they have access to treatment options which the majority of the population no longer need.

IMO this is at long last good practice, as prior to Covid those vulnerable to ARIs were not really protected much at all.

Covid is still potentially more of a risk for some of those vulnerable so it is fortunate that we have a reasonably reliable rapid test to identify this. Covid is still much more transmissable in comparison to other ARIs There is no comparable rapid test for example flu and which requires a laboratory analysis and so is not carried out routinely.

The letter I screenshotted above is designed to protect the vulnerable from Covid and as my appointment is in the Cardiothoracic Centre it's reasonable to assume patients would be classed as in the vulnerable category.

As an aside my antibody result is 3106 U/ml which is quite a way below normal. Though I haven't had a vaccination for 3 years.

[Doc Holliday]

The letter I screenshotted above is designed to protect the vulnerable from Covid and as my appointment is in the Cardiothoracic Centre it's reasonable to assume patients would be classed as in the vulnerable category.

As an aside my antibody result is 3106 U/ml which is quite a way below normal. Though I haven't had a vaccination for 3 years.

Yes I would expect some of them to be classed as vulnerable.

In relation to your antibody level, vaccination aside, it is extremely unlikely you haven't built up immunity from repeated exposure to the virus. To be honest I am no longer following up on any details about antibody levels and their long term significance. It is clear now that immunity from whatever means, is always going to be of fairly short duration in terms of repeated infection, but that thankfully, for the vast majority, will no longer progress to a serious life threatening situation requiring hospitalisation. It may nontheless be a fairly unpleasant experience and some symptoms may persist for much longer periods than other ARIs.

[daviemac]

Yes I would expect some of them to be classed as vulnerable.

In relation to your antibody level, vaccination aside, it is extremely unlikely you haven't built up immunity from repeated exposure to the virus. To be honest I am no longer following up on any details about antibody levels and their long term significance. It is clear now that immunity from whatever means, is always going to be of fairly short duration in terms of repeated infection, but that thankfully, for the vast majority, will no longer progress to a serious life threatening situation requiring hospitalisation. It may nontheless be a fairly unpleasant experience and some symptoms may persist for much longer periods than other ARIs.

According to those doing the trials anywhere from 5,000 to 78,000 U/ml is regarded as normal as 90% of healthy individuals fell within this range so I'm doing quite well with the few I have. 

[Doc Holliday]

According to those doing the trials anywhere from 5,000 to 78,000 U/ml is regarded as normal as 90% of healthy individuals fell within this range so I'm doing quite well with the few I have.

Interesting. I don't wish to tempt fate, but you do appear to be a bit of a 'survivor' Davie 

[daviemac]

Interesting. I don't wish to tempt fate, but you do appear to be a bit of a 'survivor' Davie 

Aye only been dead once, 

[puntingking]

Plandemic - the musical

The film will be released in 11 or 12 days time. It tells the covid story but I would guess from a david icke perspective 

Not saying that I be watching but credit where it due it looks well made according to the trailer that I have just seen.

[daviemac]

Cheers mate, it's just another check up this time, will need surgery sometime this year to replace the pacemaker, the battery's getting low.

Just an update on this, I've been in for the surgery and at the assessment appointment they swabbed 3 areas of my body, 1 swab did both nostrils, another did my mouth and a third did my groin, they also took blood samples. Oh and they also gave me a bottle of decontamination Antimicrobial body wash to use prior to coming in.

Seems a bit odd that the NHS hospital I attended went to all the trouble of doing those tests when others don't bother.   

[RandomGuy99]

Just an update on this, I've been in for the surgery and at the assessment appointment they swabbed 3 areas of my body, 1 swab did both nostrils, another did my mouth and a third did my groin, they also took blood samples. Oh and they also gave me a bottle of decontamination Antimicrobial body wash to use prior to coming in.

Seems a bit odd that the NHS hospital I attended went to all the trouble of doing those tests when others don't bother.   

MRSA test?

If you have MRSA then it can get into wounds, so they test you before any ops to kake sure you don't have it. If you do, then you get the antibacterial wash and you can also get antibiotics to knock it out.

[daviemac]

MRSA test?

If you have MRSA then it can get into wounds, so they test you before any ops to kake sure you don't have it. If you do, then you get the antibacterial wash and you can also get antibiotics to knock it out.

MRSA was one of them, not sure what the others were for and if I had MRSA they would have cancelled the OP. I was given the antibacterial wash to use as a matter of course, she had a cupboard full of it.

For the OP I had you get antibiotics on a drip while they're doing it regardless. That is unless it's an emergency then they do it without any antibiotics.

[RandomGuy99]

MRSA was one of them, not sure what the others were for and if I had MRSA they would have cancelled the OP. I was given the antibacterial wash to use as a matter of course, she had a cupboard full of it.

For the OP I had you get antibiotics on a drip while they're doing it regardless. That is unless it's an emergency then they do it without any antibiotics.

I had the same for my prostate biopsy when under investigation for prostate cancer. Fortunately it was negative.

[daviemac]

I had the same for my prostate biopsy when under investigation for prostate cancer. Fortunately it was negative.

Good to hear. 

[RandomGuy99]

Good to hear. 

This is the wash I had to use.

External Link/Members Only

[daviemac]

This is the wash I had to use.

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Aye that's what they gave me.

[PumpDump]

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What's the difference between conspiracy theory and accepted fact?

About 18 months

 

[badsin]

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What's the difference between conspiracy theory and accepted fact?

About 18 months

 

And Pfizer are pulling their vaccines from the market.

[Doc Holliday]

External Link/Members Only

What's the difference between conspiracy theory and accepted fact?

Accepted fact? Did you read the full article? Here without paywall External Link/Members Only

"Speaking about the potential for vaccine harm, Mr Wishart added: “The authors are correct to point out that many vaccine-related serious adverse events may have been unreported, and point to the fact that the simultaneous onset of excess mortality and Covid vaccination in Germany is worthy of further investigation on its own.

“The paper provides more questions than answers but, it is hard to disagree with their conclusion that further analysis is required to understand the underlying causes of excess mortality to better prepare for the future management of pandemic crises”


Also here is the BMJ paper it relates to External Link/Members Only

IMO it is likely that vaccine side effects contributed to the huge numbers of excess deaths, but this is (a) not proved and (b) impossible to quantify. It does require further investigation but as the BMJ paper points out that is very complex and problematic. 

[Doc Holliday]

And Pfizer are pulling their vaccines from the market.

Are they? I think they probably should but I wasn't aware they had said so?

[PumpDump]

Accepted fact? Did you read the full article? Here without paywall External Link/Members Only

"Speaking about the potential for vaccine harm, Mr Wishart added: “The authors are correct to point out that many vaccine-related serious adverse events may have been unreported, and point to the fact that the simultaneous onset of excess mortality and Covid vaccination in Germany is worthy of further investigation on its own.

“The paper provides more questions than answers but, it is hard to disagree with their conclusion that further analysis is required to understand the underlying causes of excess mortality to better prepare for the future management of pandemic crises”


Also here is the BMJ paper it relates to External Link/Members Only

IMO it is likely that vaccine side effects contributed to the huge numbers of excess deaths, but this is (a) not proved and (b) impossible to quantify. It does require further investigation but as the BMJ paper points out that is very complex and problematic. 

It's a joke doc, chill out!

[PumpDump]

Are they? I think they probably should but I wasn't aware they had said so?

I don't think they are. Not yet at least.

[PilotMan]

What's the difference between conspiracy theory and accepted fact?

The difference is that conspiracy theories are something that resemble a fact or can be twisted to look like a fact, and are designed to fool the unenlightened by those that are committed to propagating their narrative.

Whereas facts are supported with tested evidence from multiple sources acting without a prescribed agenda, that can stand up to scrutiny.

Rather than the "theories" themselves, what really fascinates me is what type of people are drawn to conspiracy theories?

Here's three primary drivers that Karen Douglas, PhD and professor of social psychology at the University of Kent has observed in her research on the subject;

"people with lower levels of education tend to be drawn to conspiracy theories........

Research has shown that people who do feel powerless and disillusioned do tend to gravitate more towards conspiracy theories.....

And having that kind of belief, I guess, feeling that you're in possession of information that other people don't have, can give you a feeling of superiority over others."

[badsin]

And Pfizer are pulling their vaccines from the market.

Apologies, it's astrazenica that has withdrawn their vaccine from the market "
External Link/Members Only

Worldwide excess deaths are high, when they really should be lower now.

[badsin]

Btw. I've had the vaccine, and wish I could have it removed.

[PepeMAGA]

Accepted fact? Did you read the full article? Here without paywall External Link/Members Only

"Speaking about the potential for vaccine harm, Mr Wishart added: “The authors are correct to point out that many vaccine-related serious adverse events may have been unreported, and point to the fact that the simultaneous onset of excess mortality and Covid vaccination in Germany is worthy of further investigation on its own.

“The paper provides more questions than answers but, it is hard to disagree with their conclusion that further analysis is required to understand the underlying causes of excess mortality to better prepare for the future management of pandemic crises”


Also here is the BMJ paper it relates to External Link/Members Only

IMO it is likely that vaccine side effects contributed to the huge numbers of excess deaths, but this is (a) not proved and (b) impossible to quantify. It does require further investigation but as the BMJ paper points out that is very complex and problematic. 

There's also a lot of other factors linked to the pandemic that may have caused them..COVID itself, including long term health issues, lockdown fitness, diet, mental health etc....diseases going undiagnosed as a really of not being able to see the GP etc etc

[petermisc]

There's also a lot of other factors linked to the pandemic that may have caused them..COVID itself, including long term health issues, lockdown fitness, diet, mental health etc....diseases going undiagnosed as a really of not being able to see the GP etc etc

Agreed, the critical word is "contributed".  Even one person getting run over on their way back from being vaccinated would contribute to the excess deaths. Significantly, the article does not say that the vaccine significantly contributed to the excess deaths.  We know that people did die from side effects, but that has to be balanced against all those who didn't die of COVID because of having a vaccine.

I am due my next booster in a month or so time, which I shall be having in the same way as I will be having my regular flu jab in the autumn.  The whooping cough did the rounds here, and I was badly affected, still not fully recovered, so the last thing I need right now is a bought of COVID.

[Blackpool Rock]

Apologies, it's astrazenica that has withdrawn their vaccine from the market "
External Link/Members Only

Worldwide excess deaths are high, when they really should be lower now.

I'm not having a go at you Badsin as i'm sure it was a mistake and you then corrected it but doesn't this just show how incorrect information gets posted on the internet and then becomes an accepted "Fact" 

Imagine that was posted on Arsebook or Twatter XYZ and read by people who already believed the conspiracy theories, how many times would that have been reposted and how many thick fucks would get sucked in and then refuse to accept Pfizer hadn't actually pulled their vaccines from the market etc 

[badsin]

Tend to agree, mistakes can easily be made. It's how you correct them once identified.
Not covering evidence up, and further denying mistakes. Doing down this second route is likely to create alternative opinion's

[petermisc]

The problem is how do you counter the massive anti vax conspiracy market.  And it is a market - there are people making big bucks from promoting these conspiracy theories.  If you are honest and say that there will be side effects but they will be negligible compared to the benefits, all that will happen is that the next minute people will be splashing "government admits side effects".  Because that is what happened.

Agreed that one of the vaccines is being withdrawn, but that is because we now have better vaccines.  That does not mean that the one being withdrawn was bad.  Without those early vaccines, the excess deaths would have been significantly higher.  I am glad that I had my jabs, because when I did catch COVID I was sufficiently immune to shrug it off fairly quickly (and a lot faster than my recent bought of whooping cough).

[Doc Holliday]

It's a joke doc, chill out!

Millions of excess deaths is a joke? Nah it was just another attempt to provoke, to be controversial. It's what you do and you wonder why Davie is on your back?

[Doc Holliday]

There's also a lot of other factors linked to the pandemic that may have caused them..COVID itself, including long term health issues, lockdown fitness, diet, mental health etc....diseases going undiagnosed as a really of not being able to see the GP etc etc

Precisely so.

GB news also had a similar headline in reporting this BMJ paper describing it as damning. External Link/Members Only

However for anyone actually reading the whole article it does, to be fair, offer some balance. But it's all about the headlines not the detail.

[Blackpool Rock]

The problem is how do you counter the massive anti vax conspiracy market.  And it is a market - there are people making big bucks from promoting these conspiracy theories.  If you are honest and say that there will be side effects but they will be negligible compared to the benefits, all that will happen is that the next minute people will be splashing "government admits side effects".  Because that is what happened.

Agreed that one of the vaccines is being withdrawn, but that is because we now have better vaccines.  That does not mean that the one being withdrawn was bad.  Without those early vaccines, the excess deaths would have been significantly higher.  I am glad that I had my jabs, because when I did catch COVID I was sufficiently immune to shrug it off fairly quickly (and a lot faster than my recent bought of whooping cough).

Herein lies the problem, i'll accept that some of the vaccines did for instance give a slight increase in the risk of getting a blood clot and there were a handful of deaths attributed to this however people jumped on the bandwagon and got wound up about a few deaths while ignoring 1000's of deaths every day due to covid itself 
And that's before you then take into consideration the fact that there was an increased risk of getting a blood clot from covid itself which was a higher risk than from the vaccine 

I try to take a step back so you can see the full picture and get a balanced viewpoint, the problem is that far too many people don't seem capable of actually weighing up all the information or when presented with just one side thinking and asking "what information am I missing here or is this source steering me in a certain direction and why"