A Covid-19 vaccine at last!

[Waterhouse]

Not at all, if the vaccine can arrive by truck then it could arrive by plane, it’s only coming from Belgium not Australia.

LONDON — The first doses of the newly approved coronavirus vaccine made by Pfizer arrived in Britain on Thursday night, the shipment packed in dry ice and traveling by truck from the company's manufacturing plant in Belgium through the Eurotunnel to England.

I think I was imagining a Chinook with a tank hanging underneath it.  If it’s packed dry ice in crates, and not a powered sub-zero container, then yes - no reason why not in theory.  Possibly after Brexit the EU air-space authorities may have something to say about it though.

[winkywanky]

On the one hand I think you may be right, however on the other hand I’m not so sure and I don’t agree with the idea either.  Take pubs for instance, in order to return to some sense of profitability as quickly as possible after a year of pain, are they likely to rely purely on geriatrics to keep their businesses afloat for the next 6 months or more? 

Maybe when the entire program has been rolled out to everyone, including all of the younger members of the population have been offered the/a vaccine, then it could be considered, but given the current offering is a two dose vaccine I suspect the rollout would take around two years at best, and that would be for the countries that have good access to the vaccines.

And what about people who for genuine reasons can’t have the vaccine (pregnant women for example), would they be refused entry to a bar or restaurant, or not allowed to board a flight?  How would you prove to a jobs-worth doorman or security guard that you were a genuine case?

I suspect around 80-90% of people will want to be vaccinated, so I think your assessment of geriatrics propping up pubs is somewhat wide of the mark.

If you choose not to be vaccinated you'll be in the minority.

And I'm not saying I agree with it either, just giving an opinion on how things may play out.

[winkywanky]

Maybe when the entire program has been rolled out to everyone, including all of the younger members of the population have been offered the/a vaccine, then it could be considered, but given the current offering is a two dose vaccine I suspect the rollout would take around two years at best, and that would be for the countries that have good access to the vaccines.

And what about people who for genuine reasons can’t have the vaccine (pregnant women for example), would they be refused entry to a bar or restaurant, or not allowed to board a flight?  How would you prove to a jobs-worth doorman or security guard that you were a genuine case?

At least TWO years for the vaccine to be offered to everyone? I suspect it'll be by late Summer or Autumn 2021, unless you have evidence to the contrary?

Of course those with genuine health-related reasons won't be coerced, like I say, I think it highly unlikely that the govt will impose vaccination on eligible people in any case. And as for businesses wanting to exclude those who choose not to take it, they would obviously come up with a policy to allow the exceptions not to be penalised, to do otherwise would be commercial suicide.

[Blackpool Rock]

I suspect around 80-90% of people will want to be vaccinated, so I think your assessment of geriatrics propping up pubs is somewhat wide of the mark.

If you choose not to be vaccinated you'll be in the minority.

And I'm not saying I agree with it either, just giving an opinion on how things may play out.

Yeah I can't see business's such as pubs giving a fuck whether someone has had the jab or not, they'll just want the cash.

Another way of looking at the whole CV19 / get a jab / anti vax brigade is that once it's been made available to 100% of the population then it's free choice whether an individual has it or not (aside from those who can't have it for medical reasons).

On that basis if someone doesn't have the jab and falls ill then tough shit they had the opportunity like everyone else

[Jimmyredcab]

I think I was imagining a Chinook with a tank hanging underneath it.  If it’s packed dry ice in crates, and not a powered sub-zero container, then yes - no reason why not in theory.  Possibly after Brexit the EU air-space authorities may have something to say about it though.

Look up the Airbus A400M Atlas, it’s so big it can carry troops, vehicles plus a chinook helicopter, regarding being refused permission to fly in EU airspace, that sounds more like project fear, we have not declared war on Europe.

[winkywanky]

Pressure can come in a number of ways. How will those who refuse a jab be viewed by those who've had it?

If the divide caused by Brexit is anything to go by, probably even more harshly than that   

[winkywanky]

Yeah I can't see business's such as pubs giving a fuck whether someone has had the jab or not, they'll just want the cash.

Another way of looking at the whole CV19 / get a jab / anti vax brigade is that once it's been made available to 100% of the population then it's free choice whether an individual has it or not (aside from those who can't have it for medical reasons).

On that basis if someone doesn't have the jab and falls ill then tough shit they had the opportunity like everyone else

What might happen is that the vast majority, who have had the vaccine, may choose not to go to a pub and be in the presence of the anti-vaxxers.

Similar happened with smoking in pubs (and elsewhere), more and more people were giving up smoking, and became resentful of being breathed on with smoke all night, and going home smelling like a disgusting ashtray.

[winkywanky]

Not at all, if the vaccine can arrive by truck then it could arrive by plane, it’s only coming from Belgium not Australia.

LONDON — The first doses of the newly approved coronavirus vaccine made by Pfizer arrived in Britain on Thursday night, the shipment packed in dry ice and traveling by truck from the company's manufacturing plant in Belgium through the Eurotunnel to England.

Part of me worries that much in the same way that I fuck up my dinnertime by forgetting to allow enough time for something to defrost in the fridge, I wonder if someone has done proper calculations about defrosting the vaccine from -70C up to 4C in a provably controlled way?

My dinner doesn't matter to anyone but me, but the vaccine?

After some of the fiascos we've already endured over the last few months, I'm not exactly filled with confidence  .

[Waterhouse]

I suspect around 80-90% of people will want to be vaccinated, so I think your assessment of geriatrics propping up pubs is somewhat wide of the mark.

Not if you consider that it’s over 80s, care-homes, getting it first, then over 70s, 60s etc.  It will take some time to get to the younger groups who are the main footfall for pubs and bars.

[winkywanky]

Not if you consider that it’s over 80s, care-homes, getting it first, then over 70s, 60s etc.  It will take some time to get to the younger groups who are the main footfall for pubs and bars.

Yes, but after that initial elderly cohort there'll be a much longer period when those between 18 and 65 are being done. That will be in the order of months, and probably going across the summer when pubs are hoping to fill up.

It may be during that time when frictions over vaccination start to surface. Don't forget, between now and then, and despite the vaccine rolling out, there will be further outbreaks and further Lockdowns of varying degrees. It's only when a critical mass of vaccinated people start to stamp out the virus, at least from being a big problem.

[Marmalade]

In Scotland, First Minister Sturgeon has warned under 50s to be ‘patient’ as they are not likely to have the vaccine until the summer.

On the practical questions facing us until then, with the uncertainties of lockdowns, two are probably uppermost in many people’s minds.

The first is beer and the ill- thought out ‘tiers’.

• Beer
• Beer with food.
• No beer.

The second is o/s travel.

• When you’re vaccine-eligible (or not).
• Entry country restrictions.
• How lucky you feel in airports, lavs, and unpredictable in-flight regulations.
• When to book

The rest, gentlemen, is largely beyond the control of you and I.

[Jimmyredcab]

The second is o/s travel.

• When you’re vaccine-eligible (or not).
• Entry country restrictions.
• How lucky you feel in airports, lavs, and unpredictable in-flight regulations.
• When to book

There is no way that I will be flying long haul in the foreseeable future and as long as face nappies are mandatory, it’s bad enough wearing one for ten minutes in Tesco’s.

[chrishornx]

There is no way that I will be flying long haul in the foreseeable future and as long as face nappies are mandatory, it’s bad enough wearing one for ten minutes in Tesco’s.

totally agree not pleasant at all

[GingerNuts]

More like 90% effective when given a half dose followed by a full dose. 

External Link/Members Only

The vaccine is having to undergo a new global clinical trial as the half dose/full dose combination was given to less than 3,000 people in the UK and no one over 55.

There is no way that I will be flying long haul in the foreseeable future and as long as face nappies are mandatory, it’s bad enough wearing one for ten minutes in Tesco’s.

Do you have a medical condition causing this?

[winkywanky]

40yrs driving a Cab means there's lots of hot air to escape 

[Apols Jimmy  ]

[Jimmyredcab]

Do you have a medical condition causing this?

Masks have failed to solve the problem, they were made mandatory on 14th July and infections have continued to spiral.

Hidden Image/Members Only

[GingerNuts]

Masks have failed to solve the problem, they were made mandatory on 14th July and infections have continued to spiral.

Hidden Image/Members Only

Masks aren't intended to solve the problem. They're one of a number of measures.

Why can't you wear a mask for more than 10 minutes? I was on a long haul flight earlier this year and wore a mask for perhaps 18 hours, from leaving the place I was staying to exiting the airport in the UK.

[RogerBoner]

I wouldn't trust the Pfizer vaccine, or rather the obese NHS staff who would cover up the inevitable lapses of temperature control. I would choose the Oxford version or any without the faff. If there's an abundance of successful vaccines they will ditch Pfizer although I like the way the name looks.

Extinction Rebellion should be up in arms about transportation of the device and the energy required to keep it cold.
Terrorists who forgot to blow up Covid wards may have been waiting to blow up the vaccines en route. The freezer software has already been targeted.
External Link/Members Only

[Jimmyredcab]

 I was on a long haul flight earlier this year and wore a mask for perhaps 18 hours, from leaving the place I was staying to exiting the airport in the UK.

If you enjoy wearing a muzzle for 18 hours then maybe you were an Alsatian in a previous life ??? 

[Jimmyredcab]

I wouldn't trust the Pfizer vaccine, or rather the obese NHS staff who would cover up the inevitable lapses of temperature control. I would choose the Oxford version or any without the faff. If there's an abundance of successful vaccines they will ditch Pfizer although I like the way the name looks.

Do we get to choose which vaccine we are given. ???
Maybe private clinics will be set up to jump the queue, if you can jump the queue for a hip replacement then surely you could do it with a vaccination, time will tell. 

[GingerNuts]

If you enjoy wearing a muzzle for 18 hours then maybe you were an Alsatian in a previous life ???

I didn't say I enjoyed it but it was no great hardship. I don't believe in reincarnation, I'm just not a wimp who can't wear a mask for more than 10 minutes.

[winkywanky]

Masks have failed to solve the problem, they were made mandatory on 14th July and infections have continued to spiral.

Hidden Image/Members Only

Nothing alone will 'solve' the problem, and you have no idea how much worse things might have been without masks.

[GingerNuts]

Do we get to choose which vaccine we are given. ???
Maybe private clinics will be set up to jump the queue, if you can jump the queue for a hip replacement then surely you could do it with a vaccination, time will tell. 

External Link/Members Only

External Link/Members Only

External Link/Members Only

[winkywanky]

I wouldn't trust the Pfizer vaccine, or rather the obese NHS staff who would cover up the inevitable lapses of temperature control. I would choose the Oxford version or any without the faff. If there's an abundance of successful vaccines they will ditch Pfizer although I like the way the name looks.

Extinction Rebellion should be up in arms about transportation of the device and the energy required to keep it cold.
Terrorists who forgot to blow up Covid wards may have been waiting to blow up the vaccines en route. The freezer software has already been targeted.

I wouldn't worry, you're so far down the list we'll be on the Sputnik vaccine by that point   

And certainly the whereabouts of the first shipment has been kept secret so those usesless reactionary cunts Exstinkshun Bollocks can't get at it.

[Doc Holliday]

I suspect the regulator may insist on more trials though, as it was only a relatively small sample size that received the half dose.

The vaccine is having to undergo a new global clinical trial as the half dose/full dose combination was given to less than 3,000 people in the UK and no one over 55.

Thanks for confirming 

[Jimmyredcab]

Nothing alone will 'solve' the problem, and you have no idea how much worse things might have been without masks.

Yes, but nothing has solved the problem so far, lockdowns have only slowed infections down, when they are lifted the numbers increase again.
Thailand have the best idea, they have pretty much closed their borders, if you do manage to get one of their special visas you are forced to quarantine for 14 days in specially selected hotels, you are basically under house arrest until you are declared Covid free.

[Jimmyredcab]

External Link/Members Only

External Link/Members Only

External Link/Members Only

Interesting links, I wonder if other countries will have such strong principles, we shall see. 

[Doc Holliday]

I didn't say I enjoyed it but it was no great hardship.  I'm just not a wimp who can't wear a mask for more than 10 minutes.

Like all these things you just need to persevere and get used to it as they have in many Asian countries.

I wore masks for large chunks of my working day, weekly, monthly, year after year. I would still have preferred not to, but I needed to and it just becomes the norm. Having stopped in retirement I found it odd and uncomfortable starting again back in March, but just for a short while until accustomed again. They are especially uncomfortable when it is hot, but in winter I find them quite useful for keeping my face warm

[scutty brown]

Masks have failed to solve the problem, they were made mandatory on 14th July and infections have continued to spiral.

Masks and lockdown together have reduced seasonal 'flu to around 10% of normal cases at this time of year in the NW. Hospital admissions for influenza are currently negligible.
Just that alone has created a lot of free beds for covid cases, and is a massive justification for mask wearing

[winkywanky]

Yes, but nothing has solved the problem so far, lockdowns have only slowed infections down, when they are lifted the numbers increase again.
Thailand have the best idea, they have pretty much closed their borders, if you do manage to get one of their special visas you are forced to quarantine for 14 days in specially selected hotels, you are basically under house arrest until you are declared Covid free.

The fact is that by and large we keep reinfecting ourselves, it's not to do with people brnging it into the country from outside. Once it was in the country that was it.

What happens in this country is a matter of what guidelines the govt set, and whether enough people adhere to them.

[scutty brown]

I wouldn't trust the Pfizer vaccine, or rather the obese NHS staff who would cover up the inevitable lapses of temperature control. .......................

I occasionally work with a hospital meds management team, and from what I know of them your comments are untrue, insulting and mendacious. They're damned hard working and conscientious, there's no way they world cover up temperature irregularities. At the moment they babysit a -30 freezer containing half a million pounds worth of vaccines, and at the slightest irregularity they'd  condemn the lot, irrespective of management influence.
And none of them are obese

As for not trusting Pfizer, they're the guys who brought you that little blue pill you enjoy so much. Not trustable?

[scutty brown]

There is no way that I will be flying long haul in the foreseeable future and as long as face nappies are mandatory, it’s bad enough wearing one for ten minutes in Tesco’s.

Just remember that if you were still working that attitude would put you out of your beloved taxi job.
Masks are pretty much mandatory for any public contact role.

[Jimmyredcab]

What happens in this country is a matter of what guidelines the govt set, and whether enough people adhere to them.

Maybe people don’t comply because some of  the guidelines make little sense, if I see my neighbour on the bus I can sit next to him, if I see him later in Wetherspoons I can’t. 

[RogerBoner]

As for not trusting Pfizer, they're the guys who brought you that little blue pill you enjoy so much. Not trustable?

Sorry Scutty just a superficial observation that in the Nottingham hospitals staff are a bit too chubby.
I don't take erectile pills. I have experimented with a fave that I was nervous to see but she gave me poppers and I started to hallucinate. In Thailand I had half a Kamagra gel sachet and it seemed to be going hard for most of the week. So now no drugs, alcohol before sex.

[Jimmyredcab]

Masks and lockdown together have reduced seasonal 'flu to around 10% of normal cases at this time of year in the NW. Hospital admissions for influenza are currently negligible.

According to Bupa the flu season is just starting and goes on until March. Let’s hope they don’t record flu deaths as Covid deaths.

Hidden Image/Members Only

[winkywanky]

Maybe people don’t comply because some of  the guidelines make little sense, if I see my neighbour on the bus I can sit next to him, if I see him later in Wetherspoons I can’t. 

I do have a little sympathy for the govt. They're being shouted at from all sides, businesses want to be able to open, every business has its own unique risks, and then there are those who who shut everything right down. Add into the mix financial compensations costing £Billions, and what the fuck do we do with schoolkids and students. It's very, very tough to make the 'right' calls, and whatever they do lots of people still won't be happy  .

Yes, there are some rules which seem to conflict with others, but do you need to get to work on the bus (yes), and do you need to go to Wetherspoons (not really)? Stop being one of the whingers Jimmy 

[winkywanky]

According to Bupa the flu season is just starting and goes on until March. Let’s hope they don’t record flu deaths as Covid deaths.

Hidden Image/Members Only

Flu deaths will go right down because of the precautions most are taking.

But then the conspiracy theory wankers will simply say Covid doesn't exist and everyone who dies has actually had the flu.

Again, the govt can't win  .

[scutty brown]

........................ and do you need to go to Wetherspoons (not really)? Stop being one of the whingers Jimmy 
 

He needs to go to 'spoons to see NIK

[Strawberry]

Flu deaths will go right down because of the precautions most are taking.

But then the conspiracy theory wankers will simply say Covid doesn't exist and everyone who dies has actually had the flu.

Again, the govt can't win  .

I've seen and heard the 'isn't it odd that flu deaths have dropped?', yes it's most likely because people are staying away from each other. Transmission of coughs, colds, flu will be much reduced.

[Blackpool Rock]

Maybe people don’t comply because some of  the guidelines make little sense, if I see my neighbour on the bus I can sit next to him, if I see him later in Wetherspoons I can’t. 

Whatever guidelines / rules they put in place would have always had examples which didn't make sense though, the only way round that is to either have no rules or to crack down like a police state and don't let anyone do anything.

As for why many people gave up complying with the rules i've got my own thoughts on that which I can't mention as it would be deemed to be straying into politics

[winkywanky]

He needs to go to 'spoons to see NIK

OK, I'll let him off in the interests of UKP nostalgia 

[Marmalade]

Whatever guidelines / rules they put in place would have always had examples which didn't make sense though, the only way round that is to either have no rules or to crack down like a police state and don't let anyone do anything.

Some of the rules just haven't been vetted by people qualified to see loopholes. Having a beer only while you're having your meal is an example (they leave something on the side of the plate so they can sit there all day). So much simpler would have been a (maximum) two hour booking slot for meals, with or without alcohol. Easier to enforce, less subject to silly abuse, safer, and more efficient.

[Strawberry]

Some of the rules just haven't been vetted by people qualified to see loopholes. Having a beer only while you're having your meal is an example (they leave something on the side of the plate so they can sit there all day). So much simpler would have been a (maximum) two hour booking slot for meals, with or without alcohol. Easier to enforce, less subject to silly abuse, safer, and more efficient.

I had heard some pubs are placing a time limit on table bookings, which also makes a business model allowing greater capacity whilst numbers in the premises are limited due to distancing.

[j_181]

Masks have failed to solve the problem, they were made mandatory on 14th July and infections have continued to spiral.

Hidden Image/Members Only

Saying "masks don't work" because there is still covid circulating is like saying that seatbelts don't work becuase there are still car accidents.

You seem to have invented this bizarre idea in your head that masks are supposed to be a magical cure-all, and now you're upset that the thing that you made up isn't true.

[Doc Holliday]

Masks and lockdown together have reduced seasonal 'flu to around 10% of normal cases at this time of year in the NW. Hospital admissions for influenza are currently negligible.
Just that alone has created a lot of free beds for covid cases, and is a massive justification for mask wearing

Indeed Australia, there were slightly more than 21,000 cases of laboratory confirmed influenza this year, as of August 23. Last year in the same time period there were more than 247,000. The uptake of the Flu vaccine was also at record levels as well as social distancing measures

New Zealand have had almost none.

External Link/Members Only

Whilst the exceptionally low figures have been achieved by lockdowns, this does raise the issue, though of why we have not controlled Flu better in the past with relatively simple cross infection control measures (including masks)  to protect the vulnerable in care homes and hospitals etc. The answer as ever is cost. Had this been the case, then we would have been better equipped to deal with Covid instead of scrambling to catch up with PPE.

I would suggest, Covid aside. our protocols for dealing with respiratory viruses may change forever? If there are considerably less hospital admissions and deaths from Flu and assuming Covid is controlled, it is going to be very difficult to revert to how we were from a medico legal standpoint alone.

[Blackpool Rock]

Saying "masks don't work" because there is still covid circulating is like saying that seatbelts don't work becuase there are still car accidents.

You seem to have invented this bizarre idea in your head that masks are supposed to be a magical cure-all, and now you're upset that the thing that you made up isn't true.

Yeah well there are a lot of strange things going on in Jimmy's head 
No surprise though that while the rest of us wear face masks he admitted to his being a "Face Nappy", why on earth could that be     

[Blackpool Rock]

Indeed Australia, there were slightly more than 21,000 cases of laboratory confirmed influenza this year, as of August 23. Last year in the same time period there were more than 247,000. The uptake of the Flu vaccine was also at record levels as well as social distancing measures

New Zealand have had almost none.

External Link/Members Only

Whilst the exceptionally low figures have been achieved by lockdowns, this does raise the issue, though of why we have not controlled Flu better in the past with relatively simple cross infection control measures (including masks)  to protect the vulnerable in care homes and hospitals etc. The answer as ever is cost. Had this been the case, then we would have been better equipped to deal with Covid instead of scrambling to catch up with PPE.

I would suggest, Covid aside. our protocols for dealing with respiratory viruses may change forever? If there are considerably less hospital admissions and deaths from Flu and assuming Covid is controlled, it is going to be very difficult to revert to how we were from a medico legal standpoint alone.

Interesting points Doc, I know to begin with the UK Govt didn't adopt face masks saying there was no evidence of them being effective but then did a U-Turn which is previously unheard of 
I believe the rationale they then adopted was that they didn't protect the wearer from contracting CV19 but they did protect other people from the wearer.
Not sure how that logic stacks up and i'm still not convinced of how effective the masks actually are but perhaps it's more important as a conscious reminder of the need to wash hands; distance etc etc and to maintain peoples focus 

In terms of cost and I mean overall cost the wearing of PPE is an initial cost but then if there are less hospital cases from CV19; Flu et al then on the face of it it should be a cost saving.
However when you then factor in that people who didn't die of CV19 and flu may well then need all sorts of treatment in the extra years they live along with drawing pensions etc then wearing masks then becomes double expensive.

I'm not saying we should just let people contract illnesses and die however the harsh but true reality is that mankind is trying to find a way to cheat nature here and while we can extend the game a little ultimately nature always wins, basically the bitch has fixed it 

[Jimmyredcab]

Indeed Australia, there were slightly more than 21,000 cases of laboratory confirmed influenza this year, as of August 23. Last year in the same time period there were more than 247,000. The uptake of the Flu vaccine was also at record levels as well as social distancing measures

New Zealand have had almost none.

The population of New Zealand is 5 million, the population of the UK is 68 million and 9 million of those live in London. 

[Blackpool Rock]

The population of New Zealand is 5 million, the population of the UK is 68 million and 9 million of those live in London. 

Surely more relevant is the fact that Oz and NZ dealt with things in a very much different way to the UK, as so often the case your "point" if you actually have one is useless 

If you want to compare apples with apples then a fairer comparison will be Scotland with a population of 5.4 Million though we will need to wait until spring when the flu season is coming to an end

The other point is that while many countries may have relatively small populations those people tend to be concentrated into a number of small areas rather than being spread out evenly, perhaps not the same population density as London but more likely similar to other large towns and cities

[Doc Holliday]

The population of New Zealand is 5 million, the population of the UK is 68 million and 9 million of those live in London. 

That is completely irrelevant. The comparison is between flu figures for New Zealand in 2020 compared to previous years in NZ.

External Link/Members Only