A Covid-19 vaccine at last!

[Blackpool Rock]

Thank God indeed, but had it affected infants in the same way that eg flu does, might we have seen a vastly different attitude to compliance? We will never know?

I think you can safely assume that people would have acted / reacted vastly differently, in the same way if it had affected cats and dogs 

I did previously muse that it may have been better if kids / teens had been affected more as they as a group (i'm talking about teens / early 20's really) would have actually have taken it seriously.
Imagine if it meant you became sterile or made your dick shrivel up  They'd all be serious about isolating then whether or not they had any symptoms 

[Hobbit]

I think you can safely assume that people would have acted / reacted vastly differently, in the same way if it had affected cats and dogs 

I did previously muse that it may have been better if kids / teens had been affected more as they as a group (i'm talking about teens / early 20's really) would have actually have taken it seriously.
Imagine if it meant you became sterile or made your dick shrivel up  They'd all be serious about isolating then whether or not they had any symptoms 

I hate saying this but I think there's some truth to it but a lot of people just think this virus only affects the elderly and people with underlying health conditions so a lot of them don't really give a fuck! But if it was affecting children and younger people then a lot of people would have a different perspective on this and would be running to have this vaccine.

It's very sad that society disregards the elderly and the disabled and doesn't see them as valuable members because we all have a lot to give regardless of age, gender, race etc.

[Jimmyredcab]

Many people are saying they will not have the vaccine, that’s fair enough as long as they realise they may not be able to fly with some of the major airlines, Qantas have already stated that.

[winkywanky]

Many people are saying they will not have the vaccine, that’s fair enough as long as they realise they may not be able to fly with some of the major airlines, Qantas have already stated that.

Aussie authorities in general have zero-tolerance policy to disruptives and dissenters, I quite like that.

[smiths]

I will be interested in seeing how getting the vaccine will actually work in my area, will Pharmacists be able to give it like they can the flu vaccine for example as that would be the best scenario for me.

[mh]

I will be interested in seeing how getting the vaccine will actually work in my area, will Pharmacists be able to give it like they can the flu vaccine for example as that would be the best scenario for me.

It will take a while for them to put in place the processes to distribute this first one that needs -80deg storage until just before use. It can be stored in a standard medical fridge for a short time but if a pharmacy or GP surgery gets, say, a batch of 250 doses they will need to know they will use all those within a short number of hours or the remainder will be trashed. And they need to know they will have the same again for the second dose a defined time later. Complex.

[Jimmyredcab]

Aussie authorities in general have zero-tolerance policy to disruptives and dissenters, I quite like that.

I would rather not live in a police state, I saw a journalist on You-Tube arrested for being at a demonstration despite have the official permit to be there. He is suing the police for wrongful arrest.

[GingerNuts]

It will take a while for them to put in place the processes to distribute this first one that needs -80deg storage until just before use. It can be stored in a standard medical fridge for a short time but if a pharmacy or GP surgery gets, say, a batch of 250 doses they will need to know they will use all those within a short number of hours or the remainder will be trashed. And they need to know they will have the same again for the second dose a defined time later. Complex.

The Pfizer vaccine can be kept for up to five days in a fridge but there are other issues of transportation which mean it may only be available at mass vaccination centres or hospitals.

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Ms Wightman [Northamptonshire's health chief] said: "It can only be transported four times and once it's been delivered to a local area that is its fourth transportation, so it then can't be sent out to anywhere else."

She said this meant its delivery would have to be straight to mass vaccination centres or hospitals.

[winkywanky]

I would rather not live in a police state, I saw a journalist on You-Tube arrested for being at a demonstration despite have the official permit to be there. He is suing the police for wrongful arrest.

But do you like the fact that Qantas are going to have a Covid certificate for flying, or do you think it's bollocks? Infact, are you going to have the vaccine or are you choosing not to?

[Jimmyredcab]

But do you like the fact that Qantas are going to have a Covid certificate for flying, or do you think it's bollocks? Infact, are you going to have the vaccine or are you choosing not to?

Qantas have a perfect right to set conditions for boarding their planes, they have a duty of care for the cabin crew and other passengers. This won’t be happening any time soon because of the logistics of getting the vaccine rolled out to everyone.
In answer to your question, yes, absolutely I will be wanting the vaccine and being an old git I should not have to wait very long. 

[Waterhouse]

Have any side effects, mild or otherwise, been formally documented yet?  I’ve not checked on this myself.

[winkywanky]

Qantas have a perfect right to set conditions for boarding their planes, they have a duty of care for the cabin crew and other passengers. This won’t be happening any time soon because of the logistics of getting the vaccine rolled out to everyone.
In answer to your question, yes, absolutely I will be wanting the vaccine and being an old git I should not have to wait very long. 

Although none of us like being monitored and told what to do, that duty of care might legitimately be extended to all types of scenarios and locations, where it might be argued that a 'Covid passport' would help ensure everyone's safety.

I personally don't have a problem with all kinds of extra checks and controls to help deal with Covid, just so long as they're rolled back after it's all over.

[winkywanky]

Have any side effects, mild or otherwise, been formally documented yet?  I’ve not checked on this myself.

Yes, when 5G gets turned on your head will explode, unless covert surveillance up to this point has determined you'd be useful to the Big State, in which case the microchips in the vaccine will be activated and you will be compelled to do the bidding of Bill Gates and George Soros. This may involve you being turned into an automaton droid to be forced to do the most mundane and degrading tasks, or perhaps just feeling the compulsion to jump off a cliff, televised for the depraved delight of the World Elite, who have brought the whole thing about for their own nefarious reasons.

[winkywanky]

...either that, or you might get a little headache and be slightly feverish for a day or two, infinitely better than catching Covid, and passing it on to others less able to physically cope than yourself.

[winkywanky]

It'll probably be one of those two.

Hope this helps  .

[Waterhouse]

Yes, when 5G gets turned on your head will explode, unless covert surveillance up to this point has determined you'd be useful to the Big State, in which case the microchips in the vaccine will be activated and you will be compelled to do the bidding of Bill Gates and George Soros. This may involve you being turned into an automaton droid to be forced to do the most mundane and degrading tasks, or perhaps just feeling the compulsion to jump off a cliff, televised for the depraved delight of the World Elite, who have brought the whole thing about for their own nefarious reasons.

I think I may have already had it then.   

As for Billy boy... he’s one of the good guys.  I have a lot of respect for him, despite my having left MS due to differences of opinion.

[Waterhouse]

...either that, or you might get a little headache and be slightly feverish for a day or two, infinitely better than catching Covid, and passing it on to others less able to physically cope than yourself.

Agree. 

[Marmalade]

From available evidence, the logistics of getting effective herd immunity suggest herd immunity will be unlikely. We don’t know enough about the virus, the vaccine, the duration of immunity from the vaccine or from having been infected, or the percentage required for herd immunity (in some diseases requires about 95%).

Even if there were zero cases in there U.K. after mass vaccination, there will be some that have refused or slipped through the grid, and also legal or illegal immigrants and visitors arriving from overseas, including countries poor standards. Then there may be new strains developing not covered by the vaccine or previous exposure.

In many years to come, perhaps, perhaps, it could be one of those diseases that you only need inoculation for if travelling to certain misbegotten countries. Just now we don’t know.

If a definitive cure were to be developed, that might alter the scenario. If detection and treatment became easier and cheaper than multiple vaccines then risk taking would cease to be a big deal, especially if long term as well as short term complications could permanently be treated. But that is also a big “if”. I read that the highest risk group for the current vaccine is pregnant women, being advised not to take it until a little more is known. For anyone else, it seems to me utterly reckless to refuse having it when offered.

At some point, there may even be a choice of vaccines. But not yet. Given that most people will not be offered it immediately, you might well consider yourself fortunate when you do get offered it, not only potentially to save your own life but to allow you to walk around without accidentally killing someone else when you would only know after that happened, if it did,  that you could have avoided doing so.

[winkywanky]

There are no definites in all of this, but I've heard a few scientists say that after a few years of having vaccinations, and of the virus mutating a little (mutations have been small so far, and covered by the coming vaccines as far as can be determined), it will hopefully become something akin to the common cold or the flu, where enough general immunity has been built up in the populace to prevent severe illness in most, and perhaps annual vaccines to mop up new strains.

That's what we have to hope for.

What I do like in all of this is that when the whole global scientific community are galvanised into action, big things can happen. Who knows, perhaps a cure for the common cold might come out of all of this, something that always seemed totally impossible? Of course if that were to happen, perhaps something twice as bad might come in its place, be careful what we wish for.

It seems like we're getting somewhere though at last, and maybe the biggest hurdle now is the naysayers, the conspiracy theorists, and the selfish don't-give-a-shits who think only of themselves, and can't see past the ends of their noses. And the dangerous thing now is, they can all be linked up by the internet and social media.

[Chooser]

Lots of interesting posts but at the end of the day, surely in the interests of the nation as a whole, vaccination should be compulsory. Simple!! Problem solved!!
That does not make us a police state. Conversely, it would make us a caring, proactive state. Ultimately, if we are all vaccinated, then everyone’s lives  would be able to carry on much more trouble and angst free! JFDI!! 

[Jimmyredcab]

Lots of interesting posts but at the end of the day, surely in the interests of the nation as a whole, vaccination should be compulsory. Simple!! Problem solved!!

Are you serious. 

How exactly would this be enforced, maybe the military could drag people from their homes in the middle of the night, this is not China or North Korea. 

[winkywanky]

Are you serious. 

How exactly would this be enforced, maybe the military could drag people from their homes in the middle of the night, this is not China or North Korea. 

Indeed, or India, where they hit you with a big stick.

Making vaccination compulsory wouldn't work in the UK. But I think it might get to the point where not having had the vaccination will start becoming a drag, trying to go places or get into places.

[Chooser]

Indeed, or India, where they hit you with a big stick.

Making vaccination compulsory wouldn't work in the UK. But I think it might get to the point where not having had the vaccination will start becoming a drag, trying to go places or get into places.

Hi WW - yes I am indeed serious whilst appreciating the controversy this may cause! Compulsory vaccination could be made to work if the will is there to do so. As I said initially, problem would be solved and we could all return to living normal lives.
In addition, it would certainly prevent the problems further down the line that you refer to. 

[daviemac]

Hi WW - yes I am indeed serious whilst appreciating the controversy this may cause! Compulsory vaccination could be made to work if the will is there to do so. As I said initially, problem would be solved and we could all return to living normal lives.
In addition, it would certainly prevent the problems further down the line that you refer to. 

They can't force anybody to have any kind of medical intervention in this country, consent has to be given even for life saving treatment. Anybody who thinks it a good idea to force treatment on people is just  . Maybe you should move to North Korea, they haven't got the virus (so they say) mind you will get shot if you break COVID restrictions.

[threechilliman]

Indeed, or India, where they hit you with a big stick.

Making vaccination compulsory wouldn't work in the UK. But I think it might get to the point where not having had the vaccination will start becoming a drag, trying to go places or get into places.

I suspect this is what will happen. The govt will make life 'difficult' for people who don't have the vaccination, effectively forcing people to get the jab. We'll see....

[lostandfound]

Seems to me it could be quite a challenge to check everyone's vaccination status all of the time, and quite a shift in our national attitude towards liberty.

For example, someone getting on a flight is asked if they've been vaccinated. They know if they say they have they'll be allowed on the flight, so they say yes, even if they haven't been vaccinated.

So does everyone need to produce evidence of vaccination that the airline and transit authorities can check and document? And in how many other walks of life would feature those same checks?

[Jimmyredcab]

Making vaccination compulsory wouldn't work in the UK. But I think it might get to the point where not having had the vaccination will start becoming a drag, trying to go places or get into places.

That is the likely scenario, it will start with airlines and could then be enforced in other places, it could even be put into employment contracts. There is a real possibility that we may never return to normal and will have to settle for a "new normal", they have never conquered winter flu and Covid could be the same.

[Jimmyredcab]

So does everyone need to produce evidence of vaccination that the airline and transit authorities can check and document?

Yes, of course, you can't just take people's word that they have been vaccinated. 

[lostandfound]

Yes, of course, you can't just take people's word that they have been vaccinated. 

Exactly - so it would be very controversial IMO.

[lostandfound]

I wonder how soon the UK will start to see much more of the other 98% of the 40 million doses of the Pfizer manufactured vaccine the UK ordered?

At the mo' it is only approved in the UK, but later this month it will probably be approved by the US and the EU as well, and we will be competing with them for supply.

[Jimmyredcab]

I wonder how soon the UK will start to see much more of the other 98% of the 40 million doses of the Pfizer manufactured vaccine the UK ordered?

At the mo' it is only approved in the UK, but later this month it will probably be approved by the US and the EU as well, and we will be competing with them for supply.

The Pfizer vaccine is one of many, the others are awaiting approval, the other options look better because they don’t require the very low storage temperatures.

[Hobbit]

The Pfizer vaccine is one of many, the others are awaiting approval, the other options look better because they don’t require the very low storage temperatures.

But the Oxford vaccine is only 70% effective so why go with that? Yes, it's much cheaper but surely life is more important than money.

[lostandfound]

The Pfizer vaccine is one of many, the others are awaiting approval, the other options look better because they don’t require the very low storage temperatures.

Well, yes, gov has orders in for 357 million doses from 7 different suppliers, but are we still in for a long cold miserable winter? Will those most in need be vaccinated in any significant numbers during winter?

Will the Astrazeneca vaccine have to wait for its new study to be completed, assessing the affects of the half dose / full dose regime in older people, or will the UK press ahead and approve the 62% effective two equal doses regime, or some other permutation?

The coronavirus vaccine will have only a marginal impact on hospital admissions over the next three months with the festive season likely to put additional pressure on health services, the UK’s chief medical officers have warned

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Edit: Looks like the authorities think long hard winter is the the truth of it. Oh well - looking forward to spring!

[Doc Holliday]

I suspect this is what will happen. The govt will make life 'difficult' for people who don't have the vaccination, effectively forcing people to get the jab. We'll see....

I wish that were so, but they appear to have already ruled this out? Partly ideological, partly logistical.

As JRC says Airlines could impose this as it involves international travel, but I doubt within the UK companies will attempt it without Government backing?

[threechilliman]

I wish that were so, but they appear to have already ruled this out? Partly ideological, partly logistical.

As JRC says Airlines could impose this as it involves international travel, but I doubt within the UK companies will attempt it without Government backing?

As I said, we'll see. They have indicated it won't be the case but that doesn't mean it won't happen.

[Jimmyredcab]

But the Oxford vaccine is only 70% effective so why go with that? Yes, it's much cheaper but surely life is more important than money.

More like 90% effective when given a half dose followed by a full dose. 

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[Doc Holliday]

As I said, we'll see. They have indicated it won't be the case but that doesn't mean it won't happen.

The government aren't known for U turns though 

[Doc Holliday]

More like 90% effective when given a half dose followed by a full dose. 

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Indeed. I suspect the regulator may insist on more trials though, as it was only a relatively small sample size that received the half dose. A 90% figure would be great if this is confirmed, because the vaccine is cheap as chips and only requires refrigeration. Globally this will be very significant over the next 12 months and if it does become a seasonal vaccine the Oxford one will score highly again. Subject to mutations of course?

[Blackpool Rock]

Well, yes, gov has orders in for 357 million doses from 7 different suppliers, but are we still in for a long cold miserable winter? Will those most in need be vaccinated in any significant numbers during winter?

Will the Astrazeneca vaccine have to wait for its new study to be completed, assessing the affects of the half dose / full dose regime in older people, or will the UK press ahead and approve the 62% effective two equal doses regime, or some other permutation?



External Link/Members Only

Edit: Looks like the authorities think long hard winter is the the truth of it. Oh well - looking forward to spring!

Anyone know if any of these are being manufactured in the UK, just thinking it would be awful if vaccines didn't get through due to huge problems importing everything in the new year though you would hope medicines would have clear passage both ways

[lostandfound]

Anyone know if any of these are being manufactured in the UK, just thinking it would be awful if vaccines didn't get through due to huge problems importing everything in the new year though you would hope medicines would have clear passage both ways

External Link/Members Only

Production capacity of 10s of millions of doses per year I think, focussed on Astrazeneca Vaccine. Also a facility in Wrexham owned by an Indian company.

GSK also has manuf sites in the UK -

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[winkywanky]

I suspect this is what will happen. The govt will make life 'difficult' for people who don't have the vaccination, effectively forcing people to get the jab. We'll see....

I don't even think it's the govt, all kinds of businesses, shops and institutions will unilaterally say it's unfair on their other customers/participants/stakeholders/[insert modern term here] will likely make it a condition of entry onto premises, on the basis of the health and wellbeing of others who have been vaccinated.

It could potentially cause a lot of upset, like the divide on Brexit or those that currently choose to ignore restrictions swimming against the tide of those that follow them.

[daviemac]

According to Newcastle Airport many places require a negative COVID test before arrival, that I can understand, it's only a test. I can't see how any company can force medical treatment on anybody. The obvious answer would be either proof of vaccine or negative test result within a certain time frame.

COVID-19 Testing:
Many destinations now require passengers to provide a negative COVID-19 test on arrival. The type of test required varies depending on the destination, however usually it is necessary to take the test at least 48-72 hours before arrival at your destination.

Newcastle Airport is working in collaboration with two local COVID-19 testing companies to provide convenient, efficient and cost-effective pre-departure COVID-19 tests for passengers who require them.

[Waterhouse]

I don't even think it's the govt, all kinds of businesses, shops and institutions will unilaterally say it's unfair on their other customers/participants/stakeholders/[insert modern term here] will likely make it a condition of entry onto premises, on the basis of the health and wellbeing of others who have been vaccinated.

It could potentially cause a lot of upset, like the divide on Brexit or those that currently choose to ignore restrictions swimming against the tide of those that follow them.

On the one hand I think you may be right, however on the other hand I’m not so sure and I don’t agree with the idea either.  Take pubs for instance, in order to return to some sense of profitability as quickly as possible after a year of pain, are they likely to rely purely on geriatrics to keep their businesses afloat for the next 6 months or more? 

Maybe when the entire program has been rolled out to everyone, including all of the younger members of the population have been offered the/a vaccine, then it could be considered, but given the current offering is a two dose vaccine I suspect the rollout would take around two years at best, and that would be for the countries that have good access to the vaccines.

And what about people who for genuine reasons can’t have the vaccine (pregnant women for example), would they be refused entry to a bar or restaurant, or not allowed to board a flight?  How would you prove to a jobs-worth doorman or security guard that you were a genuine case?
 

[Jimmyredcab]

Anyone know if any of these are being manufactured in the UK, just thinking it would be awful if vaccines didn't get through due to huge problems importing everything in the new year though you would hope medicines would have clear passage both ways

In the highly unlikely event that there are problems importing the vaccine we could use RAF planes and bases, if they can fly tanks around the world then medicines should not be a problem. 

[Waterhouse]

In the highly unlikely event that there are problems importing the vaccine we could use RAF planes and bases, if they can fly tanks around the world then medicines should not be a problem. 

I think the refrigeration requirements could scupper that plan.

[Blackpool Rock]

In the highly unlikely event that there are problems importing the vaccine we could use RAF planes and bases, if they can fly tanks around the world then medicines should not be a problem. 

Well if you watch the news nobody has any idea what the state of play will be come the 1st Jan both in terms of paperwork to import / export or the state of the traffic jams / delays caused by nobody knowing what the fuck is what until the 11th hour, not sure how that is "highly unlikely", seems more like "highly probably" but hopefully whatever happens they can treat medicines as a special case 

[threechilliman]

I don't even think it's the govt, all kinds of businesses, shops and institutions will unilaterally say it's unfair on their other customers/participants/stakeholders/[insert modern term here] will likely make it a condition of entry onto premises, on the basis of the health and wellbeing of others who have been vaccinated.

It could potentially cause a lot of upset, like the divide on Brexit or those that currently choose to ignore restrictions swimming against the tide of those that follow them.

Pressure can come in a number of ways. How will those who refuse a jab be viewed by those who've had it?

[Jimmyredcab]

I think the refrigeration requirements could scupper that plan.

Not at all, if the vaccine can arrive by truck then it could arrive by plane, it’s only coming from Belgium not Australia.

LONDON — The first doses of the newly approved coronavirus vaccine made by Pfizer arrived in Britain on Thursday night, the shipment packed in dry ice and traveling by truck from the company's manufacturing plant in Belgium through the Eurotunnel to England.

[Blackpool Rock]

Pressure can come in a number of ways. How will those who refuse a jab be viewed by those who've had it?

I've wondered that myself but logically if i've had the jab and my family have had the jab then even if someone else is infected it shouldn't affect me or my family.
I guess for some countries who don't manage to roll out a vaccination program fully or as quickly as others they may see the need to screen people entering their country and when travelling i'm fully expecting to either produce proof of vaccination or a negative test within x days of entry.

[Blackpool Rock]

Not at all, if the vaccine can arrive by truck then it could arrive by plane, it’s only coming from Belgium not Australia.

LONDON — The first doses of the newly approved coronavirus vaccine made by Pfizer arrived in Britain on Thursday night, the shipment packed in dry ice and traveling by truck from the company's manufacturing plant in Belgium through the Eurotunnel to England.

Conveniently forgetting red tape and paperwork then, exactly what will the requirements be