Author Topic: Glasgow Live reporting MSP’s investigation in Pimping websites in Scotland  (Read 10617 times)

Offline Rossco100

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Talking about a certain website i presume its AW

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Offline fedor

"Organised crime groups are luring vulnerable women to Scotland, often with promises of a better life, only to ruthlessly subject them to rape and sexual assault by the small minority of men in this country who pay for sex"

What a crock of utter shit. Do they realise that not only do many, if not most, "men who pay for sex" go out their way to ensure that they avoid working girls who could be trafficked, but said men are actually in the one of the best positions to highlight such situations to the authorities.

Furthermore, the vast majority of women who sell sex do so of their on accord. I mean shit like this... "Those who advertise prostitution are actively encouraging violence against women", meanwhile in reality... External Link/Members Only

Offline 1980Tam

Come on authorities , Legalise the trade , safer for everybody , tax on earnings and let HMRC ruthlessly hunt down the tax evaders.

Offline Lilywhite

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Come on authorities , Legalise the trade , safer for everybody , tax on earnings and let HMRC ruthlessly hunt down the tax evaders.

It is legal?

Offline Lilywhite

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"Organised crime groups are luring vulnerable women to Scotland, often with promises of a better life, only to ruthlessly subject them to rape and sexual assault by the small minority of men in this country who pay for sex"

What a crock of utter shit. Do they realise that not only do many, if not most, "men who pay for sex" go out their way to ensure that they avoid working girls who could be trafficked, but said men are actually in the one of the best positions to highlight such situations to the authorities.

Furthermore, the vast majority of women who sell sex do so of their on accord. I mean shit like this... "Those who advertise prostitution are actively encouraging violence against women", meanwhile in reality... External Link/Members Only

Can't even tell you how angry it makes me. The thing is, that to be an 'out' activist is difficult and the other side relies on a lot of us staying silent and not fighting for rights because we value privacy. It's tough. There are so many intelligent workers and clients who could really be the ones to change the dialogue but let's be honest, who wants to put their head above water?  :(

Offline 1980Tam

It is legal?

Sorry Lily , Wrong choice of word , I should have said License the trade , surely if it was regulated it would be safer all round .

Offline Lilywhite

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Sorry Lily , Wrong choice of word , I should have said License the trade , surely if it was regulated it would be safer all round .

Totally agree!

Offline fedor

Can't even tell you how angry it makes me. The thing is, that to be an 'out' activist is difficult and the other side relies on a lot of us staying silent and not fighting for rights because we value privacy. It's tough. There are so many intelligent workers and clients who could really be the ones to change the dialogue but let's be honest, who wants to put their head above water?  :(

Totally agree. While I am single, and tbh my friends and family know how I live, I would not like the work to find out. Maybe once I retire lol, though that wont be for a few decades. Tbh in in the last year or so, before the whole lockdown I only would meet with one person and she knows exactly who I am IRL and I know the same of her, in fact i've met her a good few times nothing to do with sex work. Now of course I would never dream of in any way compromising her privacy, but the that is the truth of the situation and its a far cry from me being some sort of violent rapist. 
« Last Edit: October 11, 2020, 07:52:46 pm by fedor »

Offline Lilywhite

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Totally agree. While I am single, and tbh my friends and family know how I live, I would not like the work to find out. Maybe once I retire lol, though that wont be for a few decades. Tbh in in the last year or so, before the whole lockdown I only would meet with one person and she knows exactly who I am IRL and I know the same of her, in fact i've met her a good few times nothing to do with sex work. Now of course I would never dream of in any way compromising her privacy, but the that is the truth of the situation and its a far cry from me being some sort of violent rapist.

I am very much like you. I probably have people on this forum who have had a friendly pint with me, maybe many pints... but at the end of the day, even being exposed nationally like I was- having to tell everyone/ having to tell someone who is not old enough to know/ having random people who ask me... I can't come out and say it as an activist. Because they jump on you and tear you apart, and none of us (providers and clients) want that, and they know it.

Offline fedor

I am very much like you. I probably have people on this forum who have had a friendly pint with me, maybe many pints... but at the end of the day, even being exposed nationally like I was- having to tell everyone/ having to tell someone who is not old enough to know/ having random people who ask me... I can't come out and say it as an activist. Because they jump on you and tear you apart, and none of us (providers and clients) want that, and they know it.

Yep, I guess if this is the route they want to take Scotland down I will just relocate to more enlightened part of the world. I would actually love to have an open debate with the other side, as it's kind of what I do for a living. Their arguments are full of non sequiturs and logical fallacies. However, as stated it's just not realistic.

Offline myothernameis

If the Cross-Party Group some how managed to get such sites as AW to be banned.  I dont think it would be the end of AW, and the ban would be useless

All that would be required for the escorts, to remove any offer of sexual services, and offer just company, and any thing that happen between the meets is consensual

Offline ruggedscot

its all talk - banning this is somethign that would never happen, as long as there is a market out there then someone will satisfy it.

In all the years ive punted ive never felt that the girl was trafficed or doing it against thier will, some might not have liked what they were doing 100%, but who really likes thier work all the time ?

prositution is something that exists, its been with us as long as sex has been with us. so get it legalised and regulated, it may go against the views of some folks but really does it concern them ? naw. if you dont like it then you dont get involved its not your gig. if you feel that strongly against it what is your reason what is your real drive ? you dont like guys ? you dont like exploitation in any way shape or form... ?

No this isnt going to go away and baning a website or the like as a token measure may make you feel good but it doesnt address it or remove it. like the drug culture the many millions spent to get rid of it has bearly scratched it. all that is does is alter the streams and change the routes. the drugs still make it through.

Offline mickey1967


I'm like you, I've never felt in the years I've been doing this that I've ever seen a girl being forced to do what she does. And if I did, I wouldn't see her.

I've always thought that that the popular Roms in Glasgow on AW, most based in the south side, were acting on their own volition, and whilst they may have pimps looking after them, they were never being forced to do what they do. When the raids took place a couple of weeks ago, none of the Roms profiles on AW I've noticed were taken down.

Same for the influx of South Americans in Scotland currently.

Could be completely wrong, don't have any more knowledge on this than the next person.

Offline Squire Haggard

Two quotes from the article.....

'''The websites operate freely in Scotland but group co-convener Ruth Maguire said evidence indicates they are boosting organised crime.

She said: "We have launched this inquiry because behind closed doors there is an epidemic of sexual exploitation and sex trafficking in Scotland.

"Organised crime groups are luring vulnerable women to Scotland, often with promises of a better life, only to ruthlessly subject them to rape and sexual assault by the small minority of men in this country who pay for sex.''


Ruth Macguire is not letting  the facts stand in the way of her anti men campaign. There is no epidemic in Scotland as she describes, and there never has been. The vast majority of sex workers chose the work, and are not raped and sexually assaulted. The police should deal with any problems that a small minority might have.


Next quote...........

"Those who advertise prostitution are actively encouraging violence against women," group co-convener Rhoda Grant said.

"It is time we stood up to them, called them to account and ensured that no woman is for sale in Scotland today."



Really! Anyone involved with prostitution knows that this is total crap.

For many years, Rhoda Grant has had an anti men agenda. Her last sentence reveals that that she wants prostitution stopped in Scotland, because men are enjoying themselves and none of them would ever pay for her.

Offline Matrix

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So their open doors immigration policy is causing women to be exploited, according to them.

Offline myothernameis


For many years, Rhoda Grant has had an anti men agenda. Her last sentence reveals that that she wants prostitution stopped in Scotland, because men are enjoying themselves and none of them would ever pay for her.

She might get business, if she advertised as a dominatrix  :D :D :D, she got the look

Offline ruggedscot

its exactly what is going on - the aggressive chick that doesnt like to see others barter with sex. like its a terrible thing. if it was licenced then there would be absolutely no issue - stop the flats and prevent them from working and let the sauna model work. dont allow it on the street or unregulated. There would be no issues if it was controlled with the right paperwork and appropriate steps in place.

the sex for sale isnt where its at, and there is no woman for sale, a wank blow or a fuck maybe but no woman is selling herself short. you might find abuse within the slaving going on but that aint seen in the sex industry around the saunas.

Offline sub_marine

its exactly what is going on - the aggressive chick that doesnt like to see others barter with sex. like its a terrible thing. if it was licenced then there would be absolutely no issue - stop the flats and prevent them from working and let the sauna model work. dont allow it on the street or unregulated. There would be no issues if it was controlled with the right paperwork and appropriate steps in place.

the sex for sale isnt where its at, and there is no woman for sale, a wank blow or a fuck maybe but no woman is selling herself short. you might find abuse within the slaving going on but that aint seen in the sex industry around the saunas.

See for me the sauna model has no interest, I've never been to one but the thought hanging about in a lounge with other punters then seeing a girl who has been getting pumped all day isnt of interest to me.  Plus the issue of entering and exiting a building with a known address.  I much prefer to visit a touring girl in a random flat, usually try and get the first booking of the day, nice and discreet, in and out without anybody any the wiser other than me and the WG. 

Offline 1980Tam

Does the Scottish government really think all these EE "girls" coming to Scotland want to pick fruit for minimum wage , they want to earn £100 ph for 6 months of the year and go home with years earnings "tax free". Wee nicola and her man hating team need something else to focus  on .

Offline Marmalade

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Operative word, “lured”.

It can mean anything from “given false information and then forced on threat of violence or withholding of passport” to “persuaded” to “persuaded herself”.

Many people are lured into politics. Some people are lured into a job that pays a lot. Others are lured into spending a lot on wine, women and fast cars. I’m sometimes lured into John Lewis when I walk past.

Unless the author was more specific it simply means someone chose to do something he wouldn’t do.

Offline Marmalade

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Let’s rephrase that..

“Organised political groups are luring vulnerable women in Scotland, often with promises of a lucrative career with no real work, only to ruthlessly subject them to indoctrination and fake stories of sexual assault by men in this country who compete for their jobs in the Scottish Parliament."

Let’s face it, when they have fuck all else to do, it’s a way to get attention.  :rolleyes:

Offline S.X. MacHine

Let’s rephrase that..

“Organised political groups are luring vulnerable women in Scotland, often with promises of a lucrative career with no real work, only to ruthlessly subject them to indoctrination and fake stories of sexual assault by men in this country who compete for their jobs in the Scottish Parliament."

Let’s face it, when they have fuck all else to do, it’s a way to get attention.  :rolleyes:

‘...vulnerable women of little talent and no experience, in Scotland...’

Offline Marmalade

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‘...vulnerable women of little talent and no experience, in Scotland...’

I missed that bit. However I've noticed that both politicians and prosttutes have a remarkable talent for utter shite.


Offline Squire Haggard

Let’s rephrase that..

“Organised political groups are luring vulnerable women in Scotland, often with promises of a lucrative career with no real work, only to ruthlessly subject them to indoctrination and fake stories of sexual assault by men in this country who compete for their jobs in the Scottish Parliament."

Let’s face it, when they have fuck all else to do, it’s a way to get attention.  :rolleyes:

Excellent Marm.   :drinks:

Offline Squire Haggard

Just in case you missed it there 's a thread on the main board about this.

There's a Scottish Parliamentary consultation, and they are looking for responses by Dec 10th. There are different ways of responding as can be seen on page one here,

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https://www.ukpunting.com/index.php?topic=287657.0



The Three Witches behind this man hatefest 'consultation' are,

                                                                                 Group co-convener Rhoda Grant MSP
                                   
                                                                                 Group co-convener Ruth Maguire MSP

                                                                                 Ash Denham MSP Minister for Community Safety


The feminazi Ash Denham's anti men campaign continues with the ram packed with buzzword drivel below. No SP or punter will agree with her. 
 
                         ''Commercial sexual exploitation refers to a continuum of violence. Prostitution is just one act on this continuum.'' 

                         '' I see this consultation paper as an opportunity for us to hold that national discussion to inform future policy decisions about how we address this form
                           of gendered violence........''

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Offline Marmalade

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Offline J_H

I am very much like you. I probably have people on this forum who have had a friendly pint with me, maybe many pints... but at the end of the day, even being exposed nationally like I was- having to tell everyone/ having to tell someone who is not old enough to know/ having random people who ask me... I can't come out and say it as an activist. Because they jump on you and tear you apart, and none of us (providers and clients) want that, and they know it.
This is the silver bullet that the anti-prostitution brigade have. None of us wants to come out of the closet and argue the point. The only politician I can recall who ever had anything sensible to say about it was Margo McDonald.

Interestingly your never hear the New Puritans (for that's what they are) mention that WOMEN also visit prostitutes: males, females and trans.

Offline Lilywhite

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This is the silver bullet that the anti-prostitution brigade have. None of us wants to come out of the closet and argue the point. The only politician I can recall who ever had anything sensible to say about it was Margo McDonald.

Interestingly your never hear the New Puritans (for that's what they are) mention that WOMEN also visit prostitutes: males, females and trans.

I sent a reply to the consult, as have many others, but I just wanted to make people aware of this. Look, I know we may have different views, but I'm sure a lot of you know SWers (and some of you) who have kids. This was sent out recently as part of the S5/6 curriculum which will be taught in PSE.

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It just makes me sad that the stigma against SWers and Clients is being taught to teens.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2020, 02:20:33 pm by Lilywhite »

Offline Massagetugga

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I thought the majority of the above learning seems mainly to be about encouraging discussion on the subject. I’ve not watched the two videos that are part of it. It’s fair to say there is a definite side of concern when there’s coercion, drug habits and trafficking etc. Those should be considered by the young folks.

As above it’s those that can make the decisions to change things for the better that are heading in the wrong direction (as usual).

Edit: on looking again, I object to their objectives ok. I just thought it generally seemed to be about encouraging discussions which seemed good.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2020, 04:21:27 pm by Massagetugga »

Offline JRWK

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I thought the majority of the above learning seems mainly to be about encouraging discussion on the subject. I’ve not watched the two videos that are part of it. It’s fair to say there is a definite side of concern when there’s coercion, drug habits and trafficking etc. Those should be considered by the young folks.

As above it’s those that can make the decisions to change things for the better that are heading in the wrong direction (as usual).

Edit: on looking again, I object to their objectives ok. I just thought it generally seemed to be about encouraging discussions which seemed good.

I agree about the wrong direction this seems to be heading,.
Rather than legalising it - all this hiding it away is to drive it underground, which will benefit only the traffickers, no one else

Offline Massagetugga

I agree about the wrong direction this seems to be heading,.
Rather than legalising it - all this hiding it away is to drive it underground, which will benefit only the traffickers, no one else

Exactly.

I fail to understand it. Licensed establishments with good safe working conditions/STI testing etc as per some other European cities. I frankly don’t get Edinburgh still having quite a few saunas and have likes of Chinese massage shops doing HEs but don’t regulate them. It’s like a double standard to make out something is wrong, but have them as ok anyway.

I don’t think it’s right that saunas have stayed open lately. To me this isn’t right when other businesses have had to close. It’s obviously because of the lack of regulation.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2020, 06:44:22 pm by Massagetugga »

Offline Baxter63

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Exactly.

I fail to understand it. Licensed establishments with good safe working conditions/STI testing etc as per some other European cities. I frankly don’t get Edinburgh still having quite a few saunas and have likes of Chinese massage shops doing HEs but don’t regulate them. It’s like a double standard to make out something is wrong, but have them as ok anyway.

I don’t think it’s right that saunas have stayed open lately. To me this isn’t right when other businesses have had to close. It’s obviously because of the lack of regulation.

There is regulation, in Edinburgh, and it should be well known enough to any members here. There is the long-standing agreement, already mentioned in threads, including this one, that allows the places to trade. All for health protection and drawn up in the HIV/AIDS days. Regulation is by the Environmental Health, Police and Fire authorities and regular inspections are made.

Police Scotland did try to close the saunas, after the Regional forces were amalgamated but it was pointed out to them that the agreement was in place and agreed by Lothians Police, at the time. Police Scotland had to drop the prosecutions and attempts at closures.
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Offline myothernameis

Exactly.

I fail to understand it. Licensed establishments with good safe working conditions/STI testing etc as per some other European cities. I frankly don’t get Edinburgh still having quite a few saunas and have likes of Chinese massage shops doing HEs but don’t regulate them. It’s like a double standard to make out something is wrong, but have them as ok anyway.

I don’t think it’s right that saunas have stayed open lately. To me this isn’t right when other businesses have had to close. It’s obviously because of the lack of regulation.

There is regulation, in Edinburgh, and it should be well known enough to any members here. There is the long-standing agreement, already mentioned in threads, including this one, that allows the places to trade. All for health protection and drawn up in the HIV/AIDS days. Regulation is by the Environmental Health, Police and Fire authorities and regular inspections are made.

Police Scotland did try to close the saunas, after the Regional forces were amalgamated but it was pointed out to them that the agreement was in place and agreed by Lothians Police, at the time. Police Scotland had to drop the prosecutions and attempts at closures.


There is also the fact, that the gay sauna's in Glasgow were never closed, and at the time it was reported the chief inspector might have visited such place like these

Offline Massagetugga

There is regulation, in Edinburgh, and it should be well known enough to any members here. There is the long-standing agreement, already mentioned in threads, including this one, that allows the places to trade. All for health protection and drawn up in the HIV/AIDS days. Regulation is by the Environmental Health, Police and Fire authorities and regular inspections are made.

Police Scotland did try to close the saunas, after the Regional forces were amalgamated but it was pointed out to them that the agreement was in place and agreed by Lothians Police, at the time. Police Scotland had to drop the prosecutions and attempts at closures.

All I remember about it was that the council used to licence saunas but then this got withdrawn. I’m not convinced there’s any actual regulation, just unofficial agreement. If there was actual regulation saunas would definitely currently be subject to restrictions (which to be frank would mean they’d be highly unlikely to remain open just now).
« Last Edit: November 26, 2020, 05:41:40 pm by Massagetugga »

Offline Matrix

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It's a straightforward choice then. 

They can keep things as they are or have to deal with folk who won't be happy that Edinburgh, once again, has a red light district.  Either way, I think the saunas will all be gone in a decade or so, unless they seriously up their game.

Offline Baxter63

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It's regulation not a Regulation, MassageTugga. There is the old agreement, never unofficial, and that's still in force - never withdrawn, even after licensing was. That's where Police Scotland got egg on their faces. Hadn't done their homework.   External Link/Members Only

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Anyway, it's been covered already on UKP.

The regulation is what the EHOs, Police, Fire Officers do. Ensuring compliance with the different laws and standards for H&S, Hygiene, Fire Safety, Gas Safety, Electrical Safety and all of the rest of the inspection and regulatory stuff that's required.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2020, 09:49:36 pm by Baxter63 »
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Offline Massagetugga

Thanks for posting the links. My memory was slightly hazy but “Belmonte hit a stone wall when no agencies would confirm a deal” That sums it up for me. It’s the most unofficial official deal ever made!

It’s interesting territory as records should exist from the departments you mention of checks etc. I’ve a feeling records might be difficult to obtain of those and are agencies making the checks? If anything (if the checks by environmental heath for example are getting made) it is about meeting regulations. This isn’t the same as being regulated. The public entertainment licences they used to grant might have been a bit inappropriate but came oh so close to official recognition. In turn would come proper regulation. Obviously this was too close for comfort for some.

You’ve got to laugh about the agreement scuppering Police Scotland, especially as no one would confirm it existed. It sounds lucky Belmonte got his confirmation it existed otherwise saunas would be gone.

I accept this exists but it’s like a written unwritten rule which is totally different to an industry being regulated and above board. I realise that like everything else just now livelihoods might be on the line, and I’m not against the saunas at all but I’m not pleased to see them operate just now amid a global pandemic.

Offline Marmalade

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There were major errors. The biggest one was amalgamating Scottish Police into a single force. It suggests a homogenous situation, which wasn’t the case. Glasgow and Aberdeen had had a long history of SWs and associated crime. For a while it was tolerated with certain times and streets where the p4ps wouldn’t be bothered by the police. Eventually they cracked down. Too much drugs and several murders.

Edinburgh was a far different situation. A tolerance zone that got shifted snd shifted again as housing redevelopment and militant locals objected. But there was also a long-running well-controlled, well-supported and officially tolerated sauna circuit. Police could pop in openly to see things were being done properly, ScotPep was reasonably well funded and provided condoms and health advice.

With the advent of Police Scotland a second mistake occurred. All of Scotland, now being treated as the same, was run by a well-decorated chief who had no knowledge of Scotland, was gay, and thought that a heavy-handed approach could rid Scotland of heterosexual prostitution. In Edinburgh, the police were very unwilling participants in a brutal regime. The saunas, well-run and unobtrusive actually got the backing of neighbours and locals. The council resisted gay cunt with all their might but one or two saunas got closed and one or two able managers put out of a job. Gay cunt got ‘fired’ (under some euphemism) and things went mostly went back to normal, though some capable people had been frightened off and a few miscreants and non-miscreants fined.

The feminazis, mostly weegies, in the Scottish Government could never quite bring themselves to admit that a mistake had been made. Prostitution is still generally treated as a single entity, almost as stupid as treating all pharmaceuticals from aspirin to amphetamines as a single entity. Various virtue-signalling abolitionist programmes come and go without ever recognising the legitimate claims of most prostitutes and cooperatively tackling the real problems, which are mostly associated with a portion of immigrants from two specific countries.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2020, 03:53:52 pm by Marmalade »

Offline Marmalade

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I sent a reply to the consult, as have many others, but I just wanted to make people aware of this. Look, I know we may have different views, but I'm sure a lot of you know SWers (and some of you) who have kids. This was sent out recently as part of the S5/6 curriculum which will be taught in PSE.

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It just makes me sad that the stigma against SWers and Clients is being taught to teens.

You’re right Lily.

Education is being over-run by woke-minority issues and knee-jerk morality. Boris recently criticised Scotland’s once great education system, and it was truly considered leading, yet now it’s not so much falling down as falling down to the the level of English schooling, which Boris failed to mention, although he is adamantly anti-woke on the Despatch Box.

The very document you highlight makes a grave error of formal ethics in that it assumes a moral conclusion without objective analysis.

It was bad enough (though not terrible) when teens were being taught ‘ethics’ by having debates. Debates highlight extremes, ignore middle ground, and are overly dependent on rhetoric for their conclusions: but at least they open minds to the possibility of strongly held opposing opinions. Now we are telling children what to think instead of helping them develop their ability to think. It’s mental abuse really, and a dereliction of the duty to educate.

The origin of the word educate is to draw forth, to bring out a child’s potential greatness. Market forces want education to mean “push in” (as many economically viable bits of knowledge as possible).

Choice is at root a moral function. Becoming increasingly aware of one’s own mental function, how it operates, the influences upon it, and enough grounding in things like respect for autonomy, respect for justice, goodness and avoiding harm, together with an individual desire for excellence are the things that help it to grow. Schooling is the blessed opportunity and privilege to provide such things for growing minds in a safe environment, to give every child the greatest possibility of his or her greatest individual success and fulfilment in life. It shouldn’t be used to fill their heads with poorly thought-out junk.

Offline westl65

I see Rhoda Grant putting her head above the parapet with regards to "Craigslist" in the Record today

Simular rhetoric with what has been said previously

"We need laws that bring these abusers to book"

Stating that Grant believes Scotland must criminalise the men perpetuating the sex trade

Determined to close down anything with the hint of "sex for sale"

Offline Squire Haggard

Yes, the witch Rhoda Grant is still stirring the pot trying to put her curse on men. The strange thing is that her constituency is the Highlands and Islands, where I dont think that there's much prostitution going on. Since she hates men getting enjoyment, this wont matter to her.

Her quote....

“It is long past time for Scotland to criminalise the men who feed this trade and by doing so make our country attractive to traffickers, heaping further misery on the women involved. Prostitution and sexual exploitation is violence against women.”

What she really means is......

''It is long past time for Scotland to criminalise the men who are enjoying life so much more than I do, heaping further misery on me. Prostitution is one thing and sexual exploitation is something very different, but I'm not letting the facts stand in the way of a good rant against men because I've got long and bitter memories of being dumped by several in the past. I hate you all''

There you go Rhoda, fixed that for you.  :)

Offline Marmalade

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Rhoda Grant. Never had a proper job. Fuck all education. Raised in the far-flung fucked-up and inbred community of Stornaway. Discovered an abiding hatred of the male of the species after being forced to watch a Strip the Willow by her great-grandfather, thus experiencing an utter disgust as her suppressed instincts revealed to her in a vision the vile intentions of men behind the name of the reel. Finally paid in a full time job by the laybour party to open her upper hole and vomit bollocks in the manner of 17th c. Outer Hebrides preachers and get her through the menopause. Psychiatric evaluation: should take up crochet.

Online globewindsailor

This has got legs I think. They clearly want to ban it regardless and now have the excuse that its to fight sex trafficking which is a good reason, but not a fair one. The main hurdle will be policing it which will be difficult and they hope the extra stigma+educating the kids will put people off.

Simple fact is they can't police it which is why sex trafficking is such an issue so what they are doing is simply a way of reducing it. It's a better than nothing approach with laurels. What I fear though is not policing which would increase & threaten this site, but more activist/vigliante/press groups drawing attention to punters as they visit workers.

Offline Massagetugga

they hope the extra stigma+educating the kids will put people off.

I certainly think kids and youth are way more savvy on stuff like this nowadays than a lot of us might have been at school years ago. Let’s just say the internet is a bit of a horizon broadener. Take porn for example. Girls know it’s lucrative and if I can trust stuff I’ve seen on tv the Instagram generation know there’s money to be made in promoting yourself if you’re attractive. Seemingly absolutely no shortage of girls happy to get into porn. Not for everyone obviously but the swing on things like this are in a liberal direction.

Offline J_H

I see Rhoda Grant putting her head above the parapet with regards to "Craigslist" in the Record today

Simular rhetoric with what has been said previously

"We need laws that bring these abusers to book"

Stating that Grant believes Scotland must criminalise the men perpetuating the sex trade

Determined to close down anything with the hint of "sex for sale"

Well that is an 'interesting' one.

It won't surprise anyone on here to know that (at least as far as I can see) C/list is purging ALL the ads from women but is still clearly allowing all the ads from (for the want of a better word, and no offence intended) 'rent boys'.

The implication has to be that it's ok to 'traffic' and 'exploit' men but not women.

Online globewindsailor

I certainly think kids and youth are way more savvy on stuff like this nowadays than a lot of us might have been at school years ago. Let’s just say the internet is a bit of a horizon broadener. Take porn for example. Girls know it’s lucrative and if I can trust stuff I’ve seen on tv the Instagram generation know there’s money to be made in promoting yourself if you’re attractive. Seemingly absolutely no shortage of girls happy to get into porn. Not for everyone obviously but the swing on things like this are in a liberal direction.

I agree that is a growing opinion on sex work, but at the same time if you are educating them that something is wrong while enforcing a mechanism that prevents them from exercising their broaded horizons then you're going to get them playing along.

Offline Massagetugga

In the “PC” world we live in today I’m surprised that teaching can even set out to suggest something like this is either right or wrong.

Offline Lilywhite

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Rhoda Grant. Never had a proper job. Fuck all education. Raised in the far-flung fucked-up and inbred community of Stornaway. Discovered an abiding hatred of the male of the species after being forced to watch a Strip the Willow by her great-grandfather, thus experiencing an utter disgust as her suppressed instincts revealed to her in a vision the vile intentions of men behind the name of the reel. Finally paid in a full time job by the laybour party to open her upper hole and vomit bollocks in the manner of 17th c. Outer Hebrides preachers and get her through the menopause. Psychiatric evaluation: should take up crochet.

Fuck me. I had so many word for this thread (thank you for the support above Marm)

but this ENDS me.

Offline Lilywhite

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I agree that is a growing opinion on sex work, but at the same time if you are educating them that something is wrong while enforcing a mechanism that prevents them from exercising their broaded horizons then you're going to get them playing along.

In the class they are literally being told to 'discuss' then this

Learning Intentions
• Young people learn about prostitution in terms of the law, social attitudes and harm to individuals.
• Prostitution is framed as sexual exploitation.

Success Criteria
• I recognise and can discuss the different societal perspectives on prostitution.
• I develop and articulate my own views on prostitution.
• I can explain the vulnerabilities of, and harm done, to people working in prostitution.
• I understand the commodification of sex is an abuse of power.

So how is
• I recognise and can discuss the different societal perspectives on prostitution.
This?
• I understand the commodification of sex is an abuse of power.

Offline rathbone

Take porn for example. Girls know it’s lucrative and if I can trust stuff I’ve seen on tv the Instagram generation know there’s money to be made in promoting yourself if you’re attractive. Seemingly absolutely no shortage of girls happy to get into porn. Not for everyone obviously but the swing on things like this are in a liberal direction.

Agreed, and that maybe emphasises how a vocal minority of moral crusaders is heading in the opposite direction to 99% of the population.  Sexual imagery, and the sale of sex via porn websites, is easier to access than ever before, and I suspect that means most folk in their teens and twenties are more liberated and liberal-minded than their parents were.