Dentists and covid

[wombat42]

I had a filling fall out of a tooth. No pain apart from a few twinges. Anyway I phoned up my dentist. They are only willing to treat emergencies which this isnt. I think that amounts to just pulling a tooth out if there is extreme pain. There looks to be little sign that my dentist will see non-urgent appointments any time soon, maybe not for around 6 months or when there is a covid vaccine. If and when that does happen, I would have thought there would be a massive backlog of patients needing treatment for around a year afterwards. I would expect private dentists, who already charge a small fortune, to double their prices so you might need to remortgage to see them.

[Waterhouse]

It's ridiculous. 

The chimps in Westminster have allowed them to re-open, but told them they cannot use anything which creates an “aerosol” i.e. no ultrasonics, drilling, filing, cleaning etc. because the tools spray a fine mist of water on the area being worked on to stop it overheating/burning.

Went for a hygienist appt. a month or so ago, didn’t know about it and received just a manual descale with no finery or polishing.  They still charged the same price.  Felt well short-changed.

Also tried to book a checkup at dentist (been well over two years now) and told emergency only.  Well if this continues, they are going to be overrun with “emergencies” not long from now.

[wombat42]

Went for a hygienist appt. a month or so ago, didn’t know about it and received just a manual descale with no finery or polishing.  They still charged the same price.  Felt well short-changed.

How did you manage that ? Even that might be better than nothing.

[Waterhouse]

How did you manage that ? Even that might be better than nothing.

They contacted me to say they were reopening (been a client/patient for number of years there).  My dentist is a completely different practice though.

[king tarzan]

had a very sexy dentist who wore a hijab, and had nice big tits.. pity she left..

[wombat42]

I am also thinking that some dentists, being self employed, will go out of business as they just cant afford this period of time with little income (just pulling teeth now and again). Also all dentists are likely to get rusty after such a long period out of practice. Look out for dental blunders whenever we get back to normal. 

[Xtro]

.....
Went for a hygienist appt. a month or so ago, didn’t know about it and received just a manual descale with no finery or polishing.  They still charged the same price.  Felt well short-changed.
......

Well done for looking after your teeth in the first place.   

I'd guess the manual work you had done isn't as good as the usual treatment but it must still be beneficial.  I've recently started using one of the Oral-B electric brushes and I've noticed a big reduction in staining in just over a months use. I'm probably one of the last in the queue for going electric, but I'd totally recommend.

[king tarzan]

I am also thinking that some dentists, being self employed, will go out of business as they just cant afford this period of time with little income (just pulling teeth now and again). Also all dentists are likely to get rusty after such a long period out of practice. Look out for dental blunders whenever we get back to normal.

I agree with USA Republicans a certain country should be billed for all this worldwide catastrophic damage... but obviously would never happen..

[Waterhouse]

I agree with USA Republicans a certain country should be billed for all this worldwide catastrophic damage... but obviously would never happen..

👍👍👍

[Waterhouse]

Well done for looking after your teeth in the first place.   

I'd guess the manual work you had done isn't as good as the usual treatment but it must still be beneficial.  I've recently started using one of the Oral-B electric brushes and I've noticed a big reduction in staining in just over a months use. I'm probably one of the last in the queue for going electric, but I'd totally recommend.

I still use a manual brush, have never managed to get on with (or bother with) an electric toothbrush - I brush for extended periods at least twice a day with a Curaprox 1560 Swiss made. They are great and use filaments as opposed to bristles, so much better for the gums and enamel.

[wombat42]

BTW I am reminded of an anecdote the actor who played the original Taggart role on TV. He said when he was in Australia is had bad dental pain and needed to have a tooth taken out. The "dentist" though took the wrong tooth out. When that fact was pointed out to him he just said OK he would do the right one now but he would just charge for the one.

[Strawberry]

Had a tooth removed last week, my routine check up had been moved by the practice from June to November. I made contact when soreness made another appearance, full description on phone, not in agony but didn't want it to turn into anything worse. Was offered an appointment, strict rules, dentist and nurse wore the plastic beak masks. I had to have mask on until last minute, no waiting room. Decided it was too far back and too fiddly to fill, so "I'll just knock it out now"  . Never had a tooth extraction before so I was a little surprised. All done and dusted very quickly.

I have heard other dental practices are carrying out check ups, some without the beak masks. the one I attend simply put check ups back to prioritise emergencies and symptomatic (in dental terms) patients.

[A Decent Fist]

I had a checkup a few weeks ago and have an appointment booked in early September for the start of major work: two big molars out followed by implant insertion later. Lots of drilling and close-up work.

Frighteningly expensive (enough for about 25 hours with expensive London escorts) and entirely private.

Do the Covid regs only apply to NHS work? There was no mention of these restrictions during discussion about my treatment. They did take my temperature before the checkup.

[wombat42]

I had a checkup a few weeks ago and have an appointment booked in early September for the start of major work: two big molars out followed by implant insertion later. Lots of drilling and close-up work.

Frighteningly expensive (enough for about 25 hours with expensive London escorts) and entirely private.

Do the Covid regs only apply to NHS work? There was no mention of these restrictions during discussion about my treatment. They did take my temperature before the checkup.

My dentist is nominally NHS but just about all dentists I think are willing to do some private work. But no mention of my dentist saying he would could see me privately for routine work. I just checked a private "dental tourism" clinic in Malta and it looks like they are only pulling teeth.

[Strawberry]

I had a checkup a few weeks ago and have an appointment booked in early September for the start of major work: two big molars out followed by implant insertion later. Lots of drilling and close-up work.

Frighteningly expensive (enough for about 25 hours with expensive London escorts) and entirely private.

Do the Covid regs only apply to NHS work? There was no mention of these restrictions during discussion about my treatment. They did take my temperature before the checkup.

The one I use is NHS, I suspect the ones I have heard about carrying out check ups are private. I vaguely remember having my temperature checked when they let me in.

[Matrix]

I agree with USA Republicans a certain country should be billed for all this worldwide catastrophic damage... but obviously would never happen..

More likely there's a war coming.

[Waterhouse]

More likely there's a war coming.

That’s my thought as well.  Once a vaccine is available I can see them seeking reparations, and when that doesn’t come it will kick off, maybe cold war to start, then possibly something more stringent.

[LLPunting]

Have several dentist friends the situation is a fucking mess.

They can perform procedures that generate aerosols like drilling and cleaning BUT they have to leave the surgery fallow for 1 hour before they can clean it after the appointment which takes up to 30 mins.  So for a 15-30 filling they have a room out of action for up to 2 hours.  To perform the procedure they have to use their full PPE on so full disposable gown, FFP2 mask, faceshield, (double) gloved.  Understandably not allowed to use recycling air A/C so many surgeries pretty unbearable in this heat when fully kitted up.  They can't leave surgery during procedure so if they have a hr+ surgical they are stuck in their PPE for the duration.
They can't have patients hanging about in reception and all surfaces have to be wiped down after use, including reception areas.

Costs all borne by practice. 

NHS dentists are only required to perform 20% of their contracted targets to maintain funding during this time, not that they get paid much for those contracts, so there's not much pressure or incentive to catch up on their backlog and ongoing preventative check-ups.

They also have to change out of their outdoor clothes in a separate area so in some cases they have to set aside a room for changing.  So a single seat surgery is pretty much fucked.

[willie loman]

There isnt at the end of the day much difference in cost , going private or staying with the nhs, private dental schemes are a bit like joining the rac or aa etc, you pay a fee each month, and get certain services for that, the main reason for avoiding the nhs, is that they are paid for doing work, hence they find work to do, fillings etc, tooth extraction, once in a while the worst offenders are caught and struck off, pour encourager les autres, no sensible man, uses the nhs for his dental needs. incidentally gargling with warm salty water each morning, reduces staining, and gets rid of mucous at the back of your throat.

[Xtro]

More likely there's a war coming.

Funny you should say that....
The Coming War on China (2016) | John Pilger | Full Documentary - External Link/Members Only

...... incidentally gargling with warm salty water each morning, reduces staining, and gets rid of mucous at the back of your throat.

.... And can help prevent a cold too - External Link/Members Only

[wombat42]

There isnt at the end of the day much difference in cost , going private or staying with the nhs, private dental schemes are a bit like joining the rac or aa etc, you pay a fee each month, and get certain services for that, the main reason for avoiding the nhs, is that they are paid for doing work, hence they find work to do, fillings etc, tooth extraction, once in a while the worst offenders are caught and struck off, pour encourager les autres, no sensible man, uses the nhs for his dental needs. incidentally gargling with warm salty water each morning, reduces staining, and gets rid of mucous at the back of your throat.

Dentists assess what band of private dental insurance is appropriate to you and are not certain to give you dental insurance. If you are likely to need expensive treatment you wd be expected to pay a high subscription. On an individual basis, private fees can be massive such as £150 for a single white filling, £650 for a crown. Also private dentists IME are incentivised to invent work, use you as a cash register. It is a myth to think private dentists are any better than NHS dentists, they do not have to pass any extra exams. Generally dental practices do not publicise their fees for individual treatments such as a crown or bridge on websites etc, they just hit you with a fee in the dental surgery.

[willie loman]

Dentists assess what band of private dental insurance is appropriate to you and are not certain to give you dental insurance. If you are likely to need expensive treatment you wd be expected to pay a high subscription. On an individual basis, private fees can be massive such as £150 for a single white filling, £650 for a crown. Also private dentists IME are incentivised to invent work, use you as a cash register. It is a myth to think private dentists are any better than NHS dentists, they do not have to pass any extra exams. Generally dental practices do not publicise their fees for individual treatments such as a crown or bridge on websites etc, they just hit you with a fee in the dental surgery.

You have got it the wrong way round, as private dentists receive income from you every month, they only do  work that is appropriate, though of course they will attempt to upsell, but an nhs dentist will only make serious money from his patient if he carries out work, , that is why kids of a certain age in scotland have a mouth full of fillings, 3 members of the celtic team who won the european cup, all under the age of 30 had false teeth,how could that have been possible? we celebrate the nhs as some glorious achievement, but as far as dentistry goes its been a thieves charter, not unlike legal aid. you are correct in saying that there is no real skill difference between private and nhs

[A Decent Fist]

Going private doesn't always involve dental insurance. I just pay the bill for work done. I had three implants done by the same specialist practice three years ago and they have been problem-free.

However, as the country where I am mainly living has just gone back on the quarantine list it looks like I'll have to cancel my early September appointment. No intention of staying in the UK for as long as 14 days, never mind self-isolating.

[PepeMAGA]

I dont really get with dentists that they only worry about aerosols when it comes to covid. the rest of the time you can see them swirling round the room while you're having a filling or hygiene work.

[wombat42]

You have got it the wrong way round, as private dentists receive income from you every month, they only do  work that is appropriate, though of course they will attempt to upsell, but an nhs dentist will only make serious money from his patient if he carries out work, , that is why kids of a certain age in scotland have a mouth full of fillings, 3 members of the celtic team who won the european cup, all under the age of 30 had false teeth,how could that have been possible? we celebrate the nhs as some glorious achievement, but as far as dentistry goes its been a thieves charter, not unlike legal aid. you are correct in saying that there is no real skill difference between private and nhs

That is not my experience and I have heard of other ppl taken for a ride by private dentists. I think private dentists just tend to be greedier dentists who want more money than the NHS pays. I have been put in an insurance scheme by a private dentist and for sure he or she does an initial assessment to decide what band to put you in. He is not obliged to offer an insurance scheme and I think many private dentists do not offer one. The insurance scheme is voluntary all round. And even if it is offered you are not obliged to accept it and you can pay as you go. Also private dentists are subject to less regulation than NHS dentists. They have more freedom.

[myothernameis]

I'm in the same position two teeth that need t be extracted,and will need new bottom dentures

Have phone local dentist, to be told sorry cant take you, if you have toothache, go to the dental hospital

[RogerBoner]

External Link/Members Only
This is how we did it in dorm at school up to the age of 18 

[willie loman]

Since going private 20 years ago, i havent "needed" a filling, or had a tooth out, it costs 25£  a month for my dental plan, a reasonable no of benefits are included in this price, and if as sometimes happens, they will see you at short notice, try getting an nhs dentist to squeeze you in.Basically the nhs operates on a system that they are paid by work done, its all too easy to be tempted to do bogus work, from time to time the worst offenders will be caught out,and struck off, same as legal aid, and pharmacies, a cash cow paid for by the taxpayer. its human nature to fiddle.

[LLPunting]

You have got it the wrong way round, as private dentists receive income from you every month, they only do  work that is appropriate, though of course they will attempt to upsell, but an nhs dentist will only make serious money from his patient if he carries out work, , that is why kids of a certain age in scotland have a mouth full of fillings, 3 members of the celtic team who won the european cup, all under the age of 30 had false teeth,how could that have been possible? we celebrate the nhs as some glorious achievement, but as far as dentistry goes its been a thieves charter, not unlike legal aid. you are correct in saying that there is no real skill difference between private and nhs

Fucking clueless about the current contract.   Quel surprise.

[LLPunting]

That is not my experience and I have heard of other ppl taken for a ride by private dentists. I think private dentists just tend to be greedier dentists who want more money than the NHS pays. I have been put in an insurance scheme by a private dentist and for sure he or she does an initial assessment to decide what band to put you in. He is not obliged to offer an insurance scheme and I think many private dentists do not offer one. The insurance scheme is voluntary all round. And even if it is offered you are not obliged to accept it and you can pay as you go. Also private dentists are subject to less regulation than NHS dentists. They have more freedom.

There are crooks in every business just as there are honest practitioners.  Similarly there are the clueless and those who keep themselves informed.
All practicing dentists are subject to the GDC which can strike them off.

Anyone deciding on commissioning their healthcare privately is primarily to blame for how well that turns out.  You choose who you contract with subject to your own diligence.

[wombat42]

There are crooks in every business just as there are honest practitioners.  Similarly there are the clueless and those who keep themselves informed.
All practicing dentists are subject to the GDC which can strike them off.

Anyone deciding on commissioning their healthcare privately is primarily to blame for how well that turns out.  You choose who you contract with subject to your own diligence.

If you do the research regulatory bodies like the GDC and GMC have very low figures in striking ppl off. For example the GMC let Shipman off with a slapped wrist at an early stage and failed to strike off Jane Barton who was strongly implicated in illegally hastening the death of about 100 elderly with opiods in a similar way to Shipman. I did watch an investigation years ago which showd that some practicing dentists have criminal records.

[Bustydusty]

Funny you should say that....
The Coming War on China (2016) | John Pilger | Full Documentary - External Link/Members Only


.... And can help prevent a cold too - External Link/Members Only

I started watching that but the obvious anti American bias of pilger made it pointless

[Doc Holliday]

Have several dentist friends the situation is a fucking mess.

They can perform procedures that generate aerosols like drilling and cleaning BUT they have to leave the surgery fallow for 1 hour before they can clean it after the appointment which takes up to 30 mins.  So for a 15-30 filling they have a room out of action for up to 2 hours.  To perform the procedure they have to use their full PPE on so full disposable gown, FFP2 mask, faceshield, (double) gloved.  Understandably not allowed to use recycling air A/C so many surgeries pretty unbearable in this heat when fully kitted up.  They can't leave surgery during procedure so if they have a hr+ surgical they are stuck in their PPE for the duration.
They can't have patients hanging about in reception and all surfaces have to be wiped down after use, including reception areas.

Costs all borne by practice. 

NHS dentists are only required to perform 20% of their contracted targets to maintain funding during this time, not that they get paid much for those contracts, so there's not much pressure or incentive to catch up on their backlog and ongoing preventative check-ups.

They also have to change out of their outdoor clothes in a separate area so in some cases they have to set aside a room for changing.  So a single seat surgery is pretty much fucked.

This ^

[Doc Holliday]

Fucking clueless about the current contract.   Quel surprise.

To be fair to Willie (and I usually am not  ) he is in Scotland. In 2006 south of the border the fee per item contract was replaced with a different UDA system which, as you quite rightly say, means NHS dentists can no longer increase their income by doing more work. Quite the opposite in fact. In Scotland they persisted with the old hybrid capitation/fee per item contract that the new English one replaced, so there can still be an element of abuse by some in Scotland.

[willie loman]

To be fair to Willie (and I usually am not  ) he is in Scotland. In 2006 south of the border the fee per item contract was replaced with a different UDA system which, as you quite rightly say, means NHS dentists can no longer increase their income by doing more work. Quite the opposite in fact. In Scotland they persisted with the old hybrid capitation/fee per item contract that the new English one replaced, so there can still be an element of abuse by some in Scotland.

Thanks for that and plenty of evidence of historic abuse, particularly in working class areas, where deference to professionals is traditionally high.

[Squire Haggard]

My last visit was last year. The young female dentist talked me into getting some work done which I initially agreed to, without asking the cost. When I found out that it was £600+, I cancelled. Do they train the dentists at Kwik Fit these days? 

Having a gob these days is a bigger liability than a car.

[Xtro]

If you do the research regulatory bodies like the GDC and GMC have very low figures in striking ppl off. For example the GMC let Shipman off with a slapped wrist at an early stage and failed to strike off Jane Barton who was strongly implicated in illegally hastening the death of about 100 elderly with opiods in a similar way to Shipman. I did watch an investigation years ago which showd that some practicing dentists have criminal records.

They close ranks like most professional bodies, IMO.

I started watching that but the obvious anti American bias of pilger made it pointless

Well done for trying though. I'm not anti-American, but more anti-global corporations myself. Think Haliburton, CACI, KBR, etc.

Try this instead if you like - Iraq For Sale: The War Profiteers (2006) - External Link/Members Only

[LLPunting]

Thanks for that and plenty of evidence of historic abuse, particularly in working class areas, where deference to professionals is traditionally high.

Apols, devolution not so green on yer side of the wall.  Perhaps all the crooked English dentists moved North for your shoddy contract. 

[willie loman]

Apols, devolution not so green on yer side of the wall.  Perhaps all the crooked English dentists moved North for your shoddy contract. 

quite happy with my contract with private dentist, when i met her, she was with the nhs , she gave me a filling, when she went private, i never got a filling, its only human, if you ask most people  to fill in their pay slip, they will invent work.

[Squire Haggard]

quite happy with my contract with private dentist, when i met her, she was with the nhs , she gave me a filling, when she went private, i never got a filling, its only human, if you ask most people  to fill in their pay slip, they will invent work.

I'm north of Hadrian's Wall. Its certainly making me think that I should investigate another dentist nearby that is only pay per month.

[winkywanky]

They close ranks like most professional bodies, IMO.


Well done for trying though. I'm not anti-American, but more anti-global corporations myself. Think Haliburton, CACI, KBR, etc.

Try this instead if you like - Iraq For Sale: The War Profiteers (2006) - External Link/Members Only

I can't help noticing they're all American companies. And yes, it was a well-known fact at the time that US companies would clean up over Iraq. Spoils of War and all that sort of thing. They put the most Bucks into the Iraq War(s) and they sure as hell made sure they got the most out of them.

First Iraq War justified (they invaded Kuwait), second Iraq War, a trumped-up crock of American shit with us hanging on to their coat-tails.

[willie loman]

I can't help noticing they're all American companies. And yes, it was a well-known fact at the time that US companies would clean up over Iraq. Spoils of War and all that sort of thing. They put the most Bucks into the Iraq War(s) and they sure as hell made sure they got the most out of them.

First Iraq War justified (they invaded Kuwait), second Iraq War, a trumped-up crock of American shit with us hanging on to their coat-tails.

Taking out saddam was agreed on by parliament, the actual principle of knocking out a complete nutcase is not unsound,eg the second world war,  incidentally the invasion of kuwait was not that unreasonable, kuwait to iraq, is what cornwall is to england, or the isle of mull to scotland, that is iraq viewed kuwait as part of iraq, with some reason. i have read one book on the subject but in my experience thats an awful lot more than most people who sound off about iraq.

[king tarzan]

Taking out saddam was agreed on by parliament, the actual principle of knocking out a complete nutcase is not unsound,eg the second world war,  incidentally the invasion of kuwait was not that unreasonable, kuwait to iraq, is what cornwall is to england, or the isle of mull to scotland, that is iraq viewed kuwait as part of iraq, with some reason. i have read one book on the subject but in my experience thats an awful lot more than most people who sound off about iraq.

You need that so called "nutcase" to keep that sort of mentality and culture in line... they took out the so called "nutcase" and well the fucked up loonies of Isis is a perfect example suddenly filled the vacuum with there fucken nonsense..
If Saddam was still around there would be no fucken Isis.. that simple..

[willie loman]

You need that so called "nutcase" to keep that sort of mentality and culture in line... they took out the so called "nutcase" and well the fucked up loonies of Isis is a perfect example suddenly filled the vacuum with there fucken nonsense..
If Saddam was still around there would be no fucken Isis.. that simple..

But at the time, taking out the nutcase enjoyed significant support in britain, and was voted on by all parties, blaming the americans for our own mistakes is just wrong.

[king tarzan]

But at the time, taking out the nutcase enjoyed significant support in britain, and was voted on by all parties, blaming the americans for our own mistakes is just wrong.

And now look what has happened globally.. these Isis bastards and there nonsense...

There sort Muslim Radicals are obsessed with this going to heaven and that shit, and Saddam duly obliged there kind with a 1 way ticket.. you want to go and i will send you there to heaven was his attitude.. what was wrong with that? he gave them what they wanted..
They should of let Saddam continue to deal with these pieces of shit in his correct way..

[willie loman]

And now look what has happened globally.. these Isis bastards and there nonsense...

There sort Muslim Radicals are obsessed with this going to heaven and that shit, and Saddam duly obliged there kind with a 1 way ticket.. you want to go and i will send you there to heaven was his attitude.. what was wrong with that? he gave them what they wanted..
They should of let Saddam continue to deal with these pieces of shit in his correct way..

i have no opinion on that, i am merely saying , we were willing participants in the war on iraq.as were lots of other countries, wasnt there an expression , the "coalition of the willing".

[king tarzan]

i have no opinion on that, i am merely saying , we were willing participants in the war on iraq.as were lots of other countries, wasnt there an expression , the "coalition of the willing".

All i can say there Mr&Mrs  Do Good Worldwide Policing  attitude released a lot of shitty sewage across the globe which Saddam Hussein had under strict control....

And now some of these European Government do gooders want to bring these pieces of shit back from the camps in Iraq and Syria.. for fucks sake what is this world come to!!!

[winkywanky]

Taking out saddam was agreed on by parliament, the actual principle of knocking out a complete nutcase is not unsound,eg the second world war,  incidentally the invasion of kuwait was not that unreasonable, kuwait to iraq, is what cornwall is to england, or the isle of mull to scotland, that is iraq viewed kuwait as part of iraq, with some reason. i have read one book on the subject but in my experience thats an awful lot more than most people who sound off about iraq.

Kuwait was and is a sovereign nation, recognised by the UN and pretty well every country in the world. Letting Saddam simply march in and take control of all their oil was never going to happen.

[king tarzan]

Kuwait was and is a sovereign nation, recognised by the UN and pretty well every country in the world. Letting Saddam simply march in and take control of all their oil was never going to happen.

Getting rid of him second time round and then unwittingly releasing  shit worldwide.. was not a smart move at all..

it is simple..

If there was still

Saddam Hussein there would be no Isis shit
Gaddafi there would be no migrant crossings


is something i will always firmly believe...

[willie loman]

Kuwait was and is a sovereign nation, recognised by the UN and pretty well every country in the world. Letting Saddam simply march in and take control of all their oil was never going to happen.

no one doubts that, just explaining saddams logic, and why he enjoyed majority support from his own citizens for an act that seemed inexplicable to outsiders.