Vera Lynn

[NIK]

Although no surprise given her great age, I thought it was ironic Vera has passed away only a few weeks after she was back in the spotlight.

Another link with the wartime generation gone. Not many left now. At least not many who weren’t children then.

[Matrix]

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[David1970]

She is a sad loss, my uncle served in a Burma during the war and said she was the only entertainer who bothered going there, and went right up to the front line to chat with the troops. He said she was a great for moral in the Forgotten 14th Army.

[winkywanky]

Very sad loss. One of our great icons.

[King Nuts]

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The Guardian weighs in. Only 24 hours since she's gone, too.

[NIK]

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The Guardian weighs in. Only 24 hours since she's gone, too.

Do you have to be an arsehole to write for that rag or does it just help?   

[sparkus]

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The Guardian weighs in. Only 24 hours since she's gone, too.

I wouldn't mind a quick shufty behind the officer's mess with the D-Day Darlings shown in that article though.

Did 'Forces Sweetheart' mean the troops wanked off over her picture during the war?

[winkywanky]

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The Guardian weighs in. Only 24 hours since she's gone, too.

To be fair it doesn't criticise her as such, it focuses mainly on politicians trying to engender a sense of 'national unity' by channeling the Dunkirk Spirit.

But there is a somewhat sneering tone in the piece, saying its use is 'jingoistic'. Jingoism is: extreme patriotism, especially in the form of aggressive or warlike foreign policy.

While using wartime imagery to try to pull together a fractured nation during a pandemic (and we've recently seen just how fractured we've become) is a little cheesy, jingoistic it ain't.

I found that to be a nasty piece which doesn't do anyone any favours  .

[sparkus]

To be fair it doesn't criticise her as such, it focuses mainly on politicians trying to engender a sense of 'national unity' by channeling the Dunkirk Spirit.

But there is a somewhat sneering tone in the piece, saying its use is 'jingoistic'. Jingoism is: extreme patriotism, especially in the form of aggressive or warlike foreign policy.

While using wartime imagery to try to pull together a fractured nation during a pandemic (and we've recently seen just how fractured we've become) is a little cheesy, jingoistic it ain't.

I found that to be a nasty piece which doesn't do anyone any favours  .

It's not 'The Guardian' weighing in though (as in an editorial or staff columnist), it's a comment piece by a hosted journo.

Turns out he's editor of some poxy website and author of a memoir about "sexuality and nature": External Link/Members Only

[NIK]

I am also sick of seeing them on the earhole for financial support at the bottom of the page. They have been doing that for years.
Serve them right if they went under if they can't stand on their own feet. Shows their libtard views aren't widely shared, otherwise they'd sell more papers.

You don't get the excellent Mail on the cadge like that! 

[Corus Boy]

What a strange country we are?

Currently some parts of the country or some people may be more accurate, are ripping some of the country's history, albeit, shady in the light of today's standards.

Another group seem to be unhappy with the icons that were cornerstones of one of the darker periods of our recent history.

I can't understand why people can't be a little more relaxed about life and try to get along.

[winkywanky]

It's not 'The Guardian' weighing in though (as in an editorial or staff columnist), it's a comment piece by a hosted journo.

Turns out he's editor of some poxy website and author of a memoir about "sexuality and nature": External Link/Members Only

That's irrelevant in a way, the Editor has chosen the guy because he knows what type of piece he'll write, and then it's got past his own desk before printing.

Does the Guardian ever hire someone who doesn't necessarily toe the Guardian editorial line? If they did that occasionally then that would be worthy of note.

[winkywanky]

What a strange country we are?

Currently some parts of the country or some people may be more accurate, are ripping some of the country's history, albeit, shady in the light of today's standards.

Another group seem to be unhappy with the icons that were cornerstones of one of the darker periods of our recent history.

I can't understand why people can't be a little more relaxed about life and try to get along.

There should be marches based on stuff like this 

[lostandfound]

Personally I welcome the strident opinions voiced in the Guardian, which are often different from mine, and clearly marked as opinion. Certainly provides a piquant counterpoint to the suffocating false nostalgia for a time of Empire etc which is not in the living memory of almost everyone.

I don't object to their asking for donations, IMO far preferable to the paywalls put up by the likes of the Times and the Telegraph.

[David1970]

To be fair it doesn't criticise her as such, it focuses mainly on politicians trying to engender a sense of 'national unity' by channeling the Dunkirk Spirit.

But there is a somewhat sneering tone in the piece, saying its use is 'jingoistic'. Jingoism is: extreme patriotism, especially in the form of aggressive or warlike foreign policy.

While using wartime imagery to try to pull together a fractured nation during a pandemic (and we've recently seen just how fractured we've become) is a little cheesy, jingoistic it ain't.

I found that to be a nasty piece which doesn't do anyone any favours  .

I agree it’s not really having a go at her, more they way she was used, during the war against fascism the government were correct to use her popularity. She was in later years used by jingoistic people and she seems to be uneasy about that, reference the Morecambe and Wise show story in the piece. She was off her time and did a great job in boosting  moral during WW2.
On a side note I do find it strange how certain people in the UK are so fixated by WW2.
 

[King Nuts]

Personally I welcome the strident opinions voiced in the Guardian, which are often different from mine, and clearly marked as opinion. Certainly provides a piquant counterpoint to the suffocating false nostalgia for a time of Empire etc which is not in the living memory of almost everyone.

I don't object to their asking for donations, IMO far preferable to the paywalls put up by the likes of the Times and the Telegraph.

Suffocating false nostalgia for a time of Empire? Eh?

Where? Who?

Seems it's only the Left that has an obsession with other people having an obsession about the Empire. Most normal people who actually managed to study history at school know that the Empire was over pretty much by the end of WW2.

No-one I know looks back and misses it. No-one.

Major Whatisname from Fawlty Towers was probably the last one.

[lostandfound]

Suffocating false nostalgia for a time of Empire? Eh?

Where? Who?

Seems it's only the Left that has an obsession with other people having an obsession about the Empire. Most normal people who actually managed to study history at school know that the Empire was over pretty much by the end of WW2.

No-one I know looks back and misses it. No-one.

Major Whatisname from Fawlty Towers was probably the last one.

IIRC a certain "transport consultant" formerly of this parish regularly used to hark back to such times, and you would defend his pov.

[King Nuts]

To be fair it doesn't criticise her as such, it focuses mainly on politicians trying to engender a sense of 'national unity' by channeling the Dunkirk Spirit.

True enough. I mean, how dare politicians try and engender a sense of national unity, especially when BLM plus assorted Marxists and Ecofascists are all working so hard to destroy the last vestiges of nationhood.

[King Nuts]

IIRC a certain "transport consultant" formerly of this parish regularly used to hark back to such times, and you would defend his pov.

What does JRC have to do with this?

Actually, no. Don't bother answering. Tell me where all this 'false nostalgia' is.

[lostandfound]

What does JRC have to do with this?

Actually, no. Don't bother answering. Tell me where all this 'false nostalgia' is.

You voiced sympathy for him harking back to days of empire as a time when things were much better.

You know very well what I am referring to. As the rhetoric on both sides becomes increasingly polarised we are a spit away from a "Make England Great Again" mentality on the part of some.

[King Nuts]

You voiced sympathy for him harking back to days of empire as a time when things were much better.

You know very well what I am referring to. As the rhetoric on both sides becomes increasingly polarised we are a spit away from a "Make England Great Again" mentality on the part of some.

I don't recall ever voicing sympathy for that view. And that would be because I have never shared it.

I asked you where this 'suffocating nostalgia' can be found. I don't see it. And as you have failed to answer the question, I suspect you can't see it either.

[lostandfound]

I don't recall ever voicing sympathy for that view. And that would be because I have never shared it.

I asked you where this 'suffocating nostalgia' can be found. I don't see it. And as you have failed to answer the question, I suspect you can't see it either.

You did just what you are doing now. I pointed out the obvious and you challenged that. By your own admission you often adopt bizarre points of view for the sake of argument.

[NIK]

I am always amazed how full of hatred so called liberals actually are. The 'hate not hope' slogan, apart from being woolly meaningless nonsense (apart from apparently 'bring on every refugee') is actually a total misnomer. 

[David1970]

I am always amazed how full of hatred so called liberals actually are. The 'hate not hope' slogan, apart from being woolly meaningless nonsense (apart from apparently 'bring on every refugee') is actually a total misnomer. 

No wonder you don’t like them Nik

Description
Hope not Hate is an advocacy group based in the United Kingdom. It campaigns against racism and fascism, and asserts that it seeks to "combine first class research with community organising and grassroots actions to defeat hate groups at elections and to build community resilience against extremism".

[Jonestown]

From Popbitch yesterday:-

RIP Dame Vera Lynn: who outlived the classic line-ups of The Ramones, Motorhead and the Jimi Hendrix Experience.

[NIK]

You did just what you are doing now. I pointed out the obvious and you challenged that. By your own admission you often adopt bizarre points of view for the sake of argument.

Rather than 'bizarre' I would contest that KN's opinions are generally mainstream and would pretty much be shared by the voiceless millions.
We have actually got to a situation in this country where the thousands of 'activists' who squawk the loudest have drowned out the millions who can't be arsed, and thereby made it seem as if theirs is the mainstream opinion.
You only have to look at the 'refugee' question. You have a referendum on whether we should take more refugees and it is a dead cert the result would be no. However all we to tend to hear are the voices of the active 'extremists' who make it look as if public opinion is behind them.

Mind you, if there was such a referendum, having lost it they would label the winners 'thick racists' and demand a re-vote. 

[NIK]

No wonder you don’t like them Nik

Description
Hope not Hate is an advocacy group based in the United Kingdom. It campaigns against racism and fascism, and asserts that it seeks to "combine first class research with community organising and grassroots actions to defeat hate groups at elections and to build community resilience against extremism".

Yes it is rather like 'Stop the War', who rather than being peaceniks, are actually Marxist extremists.
It is easy to quote from their advertising blurb. They aren't gonna tell the truth are they? Instead, like BLM and Antifa they use slogans and titles no 'right thinking person' could object to.
The lefty Trots and anarchists are nothing if not clever. But ultimately they are totalitarians who would repress opposing views.

[winkywanky]

I agree it’s not really having a go at her, more they way she was used, during the war against fascism the government were correct to use her popularity. She was in later years used by jingoistic people and she seems to be uneasy about that, reference the Morecambe and Wise show story in the piece. She was off her time and did a great job in boosting  moral during WW2.
On a side note I do find it strange how certain people in the UK are so fixated by WW2.

That has a lot to do with age. Even if you were just a kid during WW2 you'd be aged anywhere from 80 upwards now. Lots of them left. They would have been directly affected by the war, and they would be likely to tell stories to their kids and grandkids about it.

WW2 was a big thing, it'd easy to forget about it and it shouldn't be forgotten. And we should be proud of our role in beating the Nazis. If we'd fallen what would have happened? I guess no-one really knows but certainly all of Europe would have fallen, all the parts of the British Empire would have been taken, and perhaps the whole of Africa too. I feel pretty sure the old 'Boer spirit' in SA would have fallen in with Hitler. The US...who knows? I can't remember the timings but if Europe had totally fallen to Germany early on, what would have happened re: the US and Japan? Would the US have signed a non-aggression pact with the Axis powers, and just let them get on with it?

We should never forget WW2 and what might have been, and while people who were there are still alive, big moments in WW2 will be commemorated. It'll all become a bit less as they all die off but even then it's worth remembering the sacrifice of all the millions killed, and why Nazism had to be fought with everything we had.

Worth noting too, that although it wasn't specifically why we fought Germany, with all the above I should imagine the whole of Africa would have become pretty much a Slave Continent had the Nazis been victorious. I can't really think of any other logical outcome, certainly along with many other racial groups, Hitler saw Africans as subhuman.

THAT is exactly the kind of thing WW2 was about.

[winkywanky]

From Popbitch yesterday:-

RIP Dame Vera Lynn: who outlived the classic line-ups of The Ramones, Motorhead and the Jimi Hendrix Experience.

That's a fair point, well made  .

Rock & Roll is rather destructive, it has to be said 

[David1970]

Rather than 'bizarre' I would contest that KN's opinions are generally mainstream and would pretty much be shared by the voiceless millions.
We have actually got to a situation in this country where the thousands of 'activists' who squawk the loudest have drowned out the millions who can't be arsed, and thereby made it seem as if theirs is the mainstream opinion.
You only have to look at the 'refugee' question. You have a referendum on whether we should take more refugees and it is a dead cert the result would be no. However all we to tend to hear are the voices of the active 'extremists' who make it look as if public opinion is behind them.

Mind you, if there was such a referendum, having lost it they would label the winners 'thick racists' and demand a re-vote. 

Well done Nik you managed to turn a thread on Vera Lynn into an attack on refugees in 25 replies, on the way you attached ant-fascists ( bad people for being against fascists), up to your usual standard

[Ozy84]

 

Rather than 'bizarre' I would contest that KN's opinions are generally mainstream and would pretty much be shared by the voiceless millions.
We have actually got to a situation in this country where the thousands of 'activists' who squawk the loudest have drowned out the millions who can't be arsed, and thereby made it seem as if theirs is the mainstream opinion.
You only have to look at the 'refugee' question. You have a referendum on whether we should take more refugees and it is a dead cert the result would be no. However all we to tend to hear are the voices of the active 'extremists' who make it look as if public opinion is behind them.

Mind you, if there was such a referendum, having lost it they would label the winners 'thick racists' and demand a re-vote. 

Wtf!! 

Really NIK??

Vera lynn to extremists, refugees and referendums??

You really are one sad and bitter old man 

[NIK]

Well done Nik you managed to turn a thread on Vera Lynn into an attack on refugees in 25 replies, on the way you attached ant-fascists ( bad people for being against fascists), up to your usual standard

But how many more times they are NOT anti fascists, but far left wing ‘fascists’.   

[NIK]

Blame the Guardian for politicising Vera!

[David1970]

But how many more times they are NOT anti fascists, but far left wing ‘fascists’.   

You would say that about anti-fascists, wouldn’t you.

[David1970]

Blame the Guardian for politicising Vera!

I didn’t see them bring up anti-facists, refugees and referendums, it was you Nik, up to your usual standard and all in 25 replies.

[NIK]

You would say that about anti-fascists, wouldn’t you.

Yes I would because it’s true.
Sad to see you defending violent, anti democratic extremists.

[sparkus]

I see Off Topic going well again...

[King Nuts]

You did just what you are doing now. I pointed out the obvious and you challenged that. By your own admission you often adopt bizarre points of view for the sake of argument.

You haven't pointed out anything. I asked you where this 'false nostalgia' is and you still haven't answered.

[lostandfound]

You haven't pointed out anything. I asked you where this 'false nostalgia' is and you still haven't answered.

Asked and answered. JRC's post harking back to days of Empire which you supported, is typical of a recurring theme.

To refresh your memory on that occasion you challenged me to prove things back then weren't better than now. I cited medical advancements, to which you replied "is that the best you can come up with?" - and I replied that yes, actually staying alive was better than being dead, and that was about as fundamental as you can get.

Subsequent to that I recall you posting that things were better now than they were in times past because of improvements in medicine.

You tie yourself in knots when you get into arguments, adopting bizarre points of view for the sake of it.

[David1970]

Yes I would because it’s true.
Sad to see you defending violent, anti democratic extremists.

I think at your age you are getting mixed up Hope not Hate are anti-fascist, you remember facist the violent anti democratic ones, I will give an example if it helps..... Nazis

[Ozy84]

I see Off Topic going well again...

Its the usual suspects im afraid from the Sad Old Miserable (can’t repair the broken record) Club.

I actually opened this thread and thought ok, a genuine “off topic” from NIK, worth a read and then a few posts in and the agenda comes out   

Not even ol Vera has been spared 

[NIK]

Asked and answered. JRC's post harking back to days of Empire which you supported, is typical of a recurring theme.

To refresh your memory on that occasion you challenged me to prove things back then weren't better than now. I cited medical advancements, to which you replied "is that the best you can come up with?" - and I replied that yes, actually staying alive was better than being dead, and that was about as fundamental as you can get.

Subsequent to that I recall you posting that things were better now than they were in times past because of improvements in medicine.

You tie yourself in knots when you get into arguments, adopting bizarre points of view for the sake of it.

I genuinely wonder what would have happened had we not had an Empire.
One hopes we wouldn’t be suffering from all this angst or ‘reverse colonialism’.
One thing is certain the modern indigenous working class population are certainly paying for the ‘sins’ of the ancestors and the Empire has not benefited us one jot. Maybe without the Empire most people would stay where they were born.
Strange isn’t it that The UK is such a horribly ‘systemic institutionally racist’  society, yet the world, his wife and many children are still prepared to risk their necks to come here.
Haven’t they been listening to the ‘activists‘ ?   

[NIK]

Its the usual suspects im afraid from the Sad Old Miserable (can’t repair the broken record) Club.

I actually opened this thread and thought ok, a genuine “off topic” from NIK, worth a read and then a few posts in and the agenda comes out   

Not even ol Vera has been spared 

I never had a any agenda until I saw the Guardian’s.
They started it. 

[sparkus]

Its the usual suspects im afraid from the Sad Old Miserable (can’t repair the broken record) Club.

I actually opened this thread and thought ok, a genuine “off topic” from NIK, worth a read and then a few posts in and the agenda comes out   

Not even ol Vera has been spared 

Or when the Silent Majority is simply a very vocal trio.

[Ozy84]

I never had a any agenda until I saw the Guardian’s.
They started it. 

Go and treat yourself and have a wank 

[King Nuts]

Asked and answered. JRC's post harking back to days of Empire which you supported, is typical of a recurring theme.

To refresh your memory on that occasion you challenged me to prove things back then weren't better than now. I cited medical advancements, to which you replied "is that the best you can come up with?" - and I replied that yes, actually staying alive was better than being dead, and that was about as fundamental as you can get.

Subsequent to that I recall you posting that things were better now than they were in times past because of improvements in medicine.

You tie yourself in knots when you get into arguments, adopting bizarre points of view for the sake of it.

Again, you have not answered the question, so there's no point in me asking again.

You seem to have a vague memory of some dialogue that may well have taken place on this forum some years ago, but then again, maybe it didn't. Besides which, it wouldn't be relevant to this thread.

The 'knots' seem to me to be of your making. I asked a simple question and got some rambling answer about something JRC may or may not have said some years ago.

[Beamer]

Or when the Silent Majority is simply a very vocal trio.

This thread creates another typical situation where in a few postings the initial "intentions" are lost.
Some of us have voted on the future of Off-Topic. Not sure the available options will change this.

[David1970]

I never had a any agenda until I saw the Guardian’s.
They started it. 

Hidden Image/Members Only

 

[lostandfound]

Again, you have not answered the question, so there's no point in me asking again.

You seem to have a vague memory of some dialogue that may well have taken place on this forum some years ago, but then again, maybe it didn't. Besides which, it wouldn't be relevant to this thread.

The 'knots' seem to me to be of your making. I asked a simple question and got some rambling answer about something JRC may or may not have said some years ago.

Of course it is relevant to this thread. Not my fault that you have a poor memory. It is of course convenient that you claim not to be able your past illogical posts, even though people remind you of them!

And it is typical of your mischief making to have politicised this thread. Your motive in referencing the Guardian opinion piece was clearly to turn a thread bemoaning the demise of a beloved singer into yet another political argument of the kind you love to stir up.

[King Nuts]

yet another political argument of the kind you love to stir up.

You did not answer the question, and it is you who has stirred things up.

Threads would not get derailed if people like you could argue and debate cogently and coherently, stick to the point, and not make everything personal.

So, is there any point in me asking if you have a point to make that is relevant and isn't some sort of snide attack on me?