The Guardian is next

[Doc Holliday]

Finally, things have moved too far the other way. In the 1980s Roger Hood conducted a survey of sentencing at magistrates’ courts. After allowing for variables around age, charge etc he found that black defendants received longer prison sentences than their white counterparts. I hope that we’d agree that isn’t acceptable. When David Lammy conducted his review of the justice system at the request of Teresa May a couple of years ago he found that little had changed – people from BAME were still receiving longer sentences when other factors were accounted for. Hardly doing better!

Yes this has made the news again given recent events. There is no justification.

[David1970]

dont forget many fathers and grandfarthers were conscripted in to service in 2 ww which is a sort of slavery

Are you being serious, slavery and defending your country against Fascist are sort of the same thing?

[NIK]

No such thing as positive discrimination, all discrimination is negative.

For once I agree with you.

[GreyDave]

Are you being serious, slavery and defending your country against Fascist are sort of the same thing?

YES if you read my post in full  the 1st world war was caused by freedom fighters in the Balkans wanting to split from the Hapsbugh Empire this in turn lead to the treatys pulling the european states to war the MESS after the Great War lead to the rise of Fascism and Comunism ....Being drafted / conscripted (ask a Black GI in Veitnam if he felt he was defending his country) By govenment and told what to do is Slavery and here is the extra rub in the first WW it was a numbers gave your life did not matter 

Conscription is Being told what to do with no option under pain or death if disobeyd (or value of your life)  ..... Slavery is same and on a note both times WE Declared war no defence war/battle has happened since Stamford Bridge

[winkywanky]

YES if you read my post in full  the 1st world war was caused by freedom fighters in the Balkans wanting to split from the Hapsbugh Empire this in turn lead to the treatys pulling the european states to war the MESS after the Great War lead to the rise of Fascism and Comunism ....Being drafted / conscripted (ask a Black GI in Veitnam if he felt he was defending his country) By govenment and told what to do is Slavery and here is the extra rub in the first WW it was a numbers gave your life did not matter 

Conscription is Being told what to do with no option under pain or death if disobeyd (or value of your life)  ..... Slavery is same and on a note both times WE Declared war no defence war/battle has happened since Stamford Bridge

Not sure about the US, but in the UK you could be a conscientious objector.

[winkywanky]

That said, I wouldn't really put Conscription on a par with Slavery in any case. It's everyone in your country expected to do it, rather than effectively stealing someone from another country.

[GreyDave]

Not sure about the US, but in the UK you could be a conscientious objector.

Hmm  you could if the court allowed it strangly if you were a Quaker you might be allowed to be in the Red Cross services but to "Just Become a Conshey"  got you banged up"

In states many fled to Canada to avoid (if you wernt rich like trump or Bush`s Mum and Dad)

[GreyDave]

That said, I wouldn't really put Conscription on a par with Slavery in any case. It's everyone in your country expected to do it, rather than effectively stealing someone from another country.

We did with common wealth and empire conscripted from all around world 

And we paid Chinese indentured labour to do work in supply chain too

Slavery is no choice ok a chance in hell of choice if conscripted.

[winkywanky]

We did with common wealth and empire conscripted from all around world 

And we paid Chinese indentured labour to do work in supply chain too

Slavery is no choice ok a chance in hell of choice if conscripted.

The Commonwealth/Empire is potentially a different case of course. Although one might say those countries also received benefits from being members, and therefore their peoples.

Imperialism is so complicated!

[David1970]

YES if you read my post in full  the 1st world war was caused by freedom fighters in the Balkans wanting to split from the Hapsbugh Empire this in turn lead to the treatys pulling the european states to war the MESS after the Great War lead to the rise of Fascism and Comunism ....Being drafted / conscripted (ask a Black GI in Veitnam if he felt he was defending his country) By govenment and told what to do is Slavery and here is the extra rub in the first WW it was a numbers gave your life did not matter 

Conscription is Being told what to do with no option under pain or death if disobeyd (or value of your life)  ..... Slavery is same and on a note both times WE Declared war no defence war/battle has happened since Stamford Bridge

Your original post said WW2 no other war, now you have not mentioning it?
The democratises during the 2WW did not treat their armed forces as slaves as they fought Facist's.
To equate a person kidnapped in Africa, sold into slavery, beaten, raped, mutated and murdered at their owners whim, treated like a farm animals to the way hero’s who defended this country against Facist's were treated is unbelievable. 

[David1970]

Not sure about the US, but in the UK you could be a conscientious objector.

All democracies had conscientious objectors, in the USA some worked as fireman for example.

[David1970]

We did with common wealth and empire conscripted from all around world 

And we paid Chinese indentured labour to do work in supply chain too

Slavery is no choice ok a chance in hell of choice if conscripted.

The biggest army in WW2 was the 14th Army, predominantly made up of men from the Indian subcontinent, also East and West African units, all were volunteers.

We paid the Chinese, you don’t pay slaves.

[GreyDave]

The biggest army in WW2 was the 14th Army, predominantly made up of men from the Indian subcontinent, also East and West African units, all were volunteers.

We paid the Chinese, you don’t pay slaves.

Voluntered by their superiors and it was Chinese Companies we paid who indentured and trapped the men in to working in a war zone.
As WW said Imperialisam is a difficult subject.....

Some folks are born made to wave the flag
Ooh, they're red, white and blue
And when the band plays "Hail to the chief"
Ooh, they point the cannon at you, Lord
It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no senator's son

[David1970]

Voluntered by their superiors and it was Chinese Companies we paid who indentured and trapped the men in to working in a war zone.
As WW said Imperialisam is a difficult subject.....

Some folks are born made to wave the flag
Ooh, they're red, white and blue
And when the band plays "Hail to the chief"
Ooh, they point the cannon at you, Lord
It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no senator's son

Still don’t get how you equate slavery to defending your democratic country against Fascist in WW2 as per your post on this subject?

[GreyDave]

  your told to do it or else... 

[David1970]

your told to do it or else... 

To do what?
Or else what?

[GreyDave]

To do what?
Or else what?

External Link/Members Only

External Link/Members Only

First World war those who refuse tried to appeal to courts BUT were enlisted and then Court Marshelled as enlisted they were threatened with being shoot for cowardice.
2nd WW many were jailed

The Troubles of Ireland which had been brewing for 100`s of years exploded when the British London govenment conscripted Irish men this lead the the uprising which in turn the independece in 1922 .... Many of these events helped  lead to the rise of extreme right and left politics in the 30`s .

External Link/Members Only

Conscription of a peolpe to do a bidding of govenment is slavery ..

On a more relavant note we on here should and I am sure are worried about girls who are traficked and controlled it is a nasty bit of this hobby which does appear sadly every now and again Sergis - Madames- Gangmasters they still exist 

[Global_Punter]

I think the only way to resolve this is to ban you which would be a shame but you just can't take a hint. We'll see if a 3 day ban makes any difference, if not it will be permanent.

Thanks for letting me know, normally I'd not comment on this topics / threads for the simple reason that they get locked or folks tend to want to have the last word.

I have a Tourette Syndrome when it comes to speaking up or blowing the whistle on prejudice, injustice and unfairness. I saw what seemed like certain posters breaking the rules - being reported and it being over looked.

In addition to this forum I use others like ISG which helps me a lot for my German FKK ventures, currently I'm not punting and only log in to respond to emails as folks ask me questions from time to time.

Finally upon closer examination the thread has gone back to a civil debate which is welcomed as it seems under control.

[winkywanky]

Good to see you back GP  .

I wouldn't consider myself to be the perfect poster, and that's not for me to judge in any case.

But I'd say one thing, if you feel other posters are going beyond the rules or being unpleasant for the sake of it, the thing that would rile them and get you the moral high ground in any debate, would be for you to remain calm and logical. Gets 'em every time, and trust me, there'll be support for that.

It doesn't always mean you'll be agreed with (no-one can ever attain that status, nor should they wish for it), but if you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs and blaming it on you, you'll be the one smelling of roses.

[David1970]

External Link/Members Only

External Link/Members Only

First World war those who refuse tried to appeal to courts BUT were enlisted and then Court Marshelled as enlisted they were threatened with being shoot for cowardice.
2nd WW many were jailed

The Troubles of Ireland which had been brewing for 100`s of years exploded when the British London govenment conscripted Irish men this lead the the uprising which in turn the independece in 1922 .... Many of these events helped  lead to the rise of extreme right and left politics in the 30`s .

External Link/Members Only

Conscription of a peolpe to do a bidding of govenment is slavery ..

On a more relavant note we on here should and I am sure are worried about girls who are traficked and controlled it is a nasty bit of this hobby which does appear sadly every now and again Sergis - Madames- Gangmasters they still exist 

You quoted WW2 in your original post equating slavery to defending a democracy against fascism

[GreyDave]

You quoted WW2 in your original post equating slavery to defending a democracy against fascism

What I posted: 

Many Average white blokes have felt put on and left out for years and branded when ever they make a noise. dont forget many fathers and grandfarthers were conscripted in to service in 2 ww which is a sort of slavery no matter what the rights and wrongs of it thats what it was.

This happenen to German French Spanish Italian and many other naionality Granddad`s Conscription was on both sides and was a sort of slavery it did not matter what side you were on if you were conscripted that was it.

Equating it to the Ghanna Ashanti trade which carried on for a lot longer I did not It is a sort of slavery death is a risk the masters control

[GreyDave]

What I posted: 

Many Average white blokes have felt put on and left out for years and branded when ever they make a noise. dont forget many fathers and grandfarthers were conscripted in to service in 2 ww which is a sort of slavery no matter what the rights and wrongs of it thats what it was.

to be clear;

This happenen to German French Spanish Italian and many other naionality Granddad`s Conscription was on both sides and was a sort of slavery it did not matter what side you were on if you were conscripted that was it.

Equating it to the Ghanna Ashanti trade which carried on for a lot longer I did not It is a sort of slavery death is a risk the masters control

[scutty brown]

Wartime conscription was a matter of maximising effort to ensure national survival - and those involved got paid.
Nothing like slavery, which is all about maximising profit for the owner - and not getting paid

[Matrix]

Wartime conscription was a matter of maximising effort to ensure national survival - and those involved got paid.
Nothing like slavery, which is all about maximising profit for the owner - and not getting paid

In some cases, not in others.  The Nazi's consripted several folk, not in the name of national survival, and lots of foreigners were given a choice. Join or die with your family.  Same with the Soviets.  2 extreme examples, of course.

[scutty brown]

In some cases, not in others.  The Nazi's consripted several folk, not in the name of national survival, and lots of foreigners were given a choice. Join or die with your family.  Same with the Soviets.  2 extreme examples, of course.

Greydave appeared to be specifically referring to UK conscription, and thats what I was referring to

[Matrix]

Greydave appeared to be specifically referring to UK conscription, and thats what I was referring to

Aye, fair enough.