Author Topic: The Guardian is next  (Read 11228 times)

Offline RogerBoner

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Fawlty Towers 'Don't mention the war' episode removed from UKTV
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Beyond belief, but on the bright side..virtue snivelling like this ensures the left (in it's current incarnation with its current obsessions) won't ever get into power   :yahoo:
I hope they don't ban Blazing Saddles. It's hilarious, one of my favourites along with The Producers. It uses some extreme language to lampoon bigots. It has a clear but unsubtle anti racism message.

Online Matrix

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Wha?  :(

I thought it had remained very civilised, with some good points made? That's a shame. But ours is not to reason why, ours is just to post and die.

Actually, looking back at the thread, you were guilty as well. SHAME:lol: :blush:

Offline winkywanky

Actually, looking back at the thread, you were guilty as well. SHAME:lol: :blush:


Evidence?

Online Matrix

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Evidence?

Go and read the blm thread and see what we were all discussing. As you well know, quoting is forbidden.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2020, 10:43:28 pm by Matrix »

Offline winkywanky

Go and read the blm thread and see what we were all discussing. As you well know, quoting is forbidden.


Debate on there was robust, some went too far IMO. I hadn't considered any of my posts had, but there you go, we all have our opinions.

Just so long as the opinion in this case isn't influenced by whether you agreed with the sentiment of those posts, because of course that can have an influence.

Online Matrix

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Debate on there was robust, some went too far IMO. I hadn't considered any of my posts had, but there you go, we all have our opinions.

Just so long as the opinion in this case isn't influenced by whether you agreed with the sentiment of those posts, because of course that can have an influence.

Pm'd you.

Wasn't having a go, simply pointed out that 4 of us, not 3 violated the rules and I'm as guilty as any, regardless of intent.

Offline Beamer


Debate on there was robust, some went too far IMO. I hadn't considered any of my posts had, but there you go, we all have our opinions.

Just so long as the opinion in this case isn't influenced by whether you agreed with the sentiment of those posts, because of course that can have an influence.

Were you related to Sir Humphrey?  (From Yes Minister)
« Last Edit: June 12, 2020, 10:49:09 pm by Beamer »

Offline winkywanky

Were you related to Sir Humphrey?  (From Yes Minister)


I may have been in some way  ;)

Online Matrix

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The statue attacks continue.

On second thought, perhaps posting that link to the Scotsman article regarding the statue of Robert the Bruce and the Falkirk wheel, may also be a violation.

Anyone interested in balance should google it.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2020, 10:53:12 pm by Matrix »

Offline AnthG

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Fawlty Towers 'Don't mention the war' episode removed from UKTV
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This episode I remember won both channel 4s and channel 5s top 100 funniest tv episode in history. Beating both Morecambe and Wise Christmas and Only fools and horses, dell falling though the bar to second and third places.

And now it's been wiped from existence. The voted funniest television episode ever created.
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Offline winkywanky

Pm'd you.

Wasn't having a go, simply pointed out that 4 of us, not 3 violated the rules and I'm as guilty as any, regardless of intent.


Sorry I see what you mean, not being rude but actually talking about stuff that had been banned.

Hands-up   :blush:

Online Matrix

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Sorry I see what you mean, not being rude but actually talking about stuff that had been banned.

Hands-up   :blush:

Same. Not having a go.

I also took the bait.

I've always found you very reasonable apart from your love of the "BBC".  :lol:
« Last Edit: June 12, 2020, 10:54:48 pm by Matrix »

Offline winkywanky

Same. Not having a go.

I also took the bait.

I've always found you very reasonable apart from your love of the "BBC".  :lol:

 :D

I don't love it per se, and it pisses me off mightily sometimes (the latest thing being the removal of an episode of Flowery Twats) but I'll defend what it stands for and the function it's intended to perform (which I think it succeeds in 90% of the time).

Online Matrix

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:D

I don't love it per se, and it pisses me off mightily sometimes (the latest thing being the removal of an episode of Flowery Twats) but I'll defend what it stands for and the function it's intended to perform (which I think it succeeds in 90% of the time).

I'll wager they don't stop fawning over the royal family despite recent developments!  :yahoo:

Offline winkywanky

I hardly think they fawn over Royalty (the Andrew interview for starters) but of course that would be because I think neither the BBC nor the Royal Family can do any wrong whatsoever  :rolleyes:  ;).

Online Matrix

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Offline King Nuts

This episode I remember won both channel 4s and channel 5s top 100 funniest tv episode in history. Beating both Morecambe and Wise Christmas and Only fools and horses, dell falling though the bar to second and third places.

And now it's been wiped from existence. The voted funniest television episode ever created.

You can still get it on Netflix. I watched it last night to remind myself what the fuss is about. The Major is chatting with Basil about cricket and uses two words which I will not repeat here, to describe the Indian and the West Indian teams. Even Basil thinks the Major's lost it, and clearly the piss is being taken out of the Major's antediluvian attitudes. We laugh at him and those attitudes too. No mistaking that.

I also watched an episode of 'Life on Mars' yesterday. For anyone who's not seen it, it was a two-series run about a present day detective who's in a traffic accident, slips into a coma and then wakes up in 1973. He's still the same guy, and still a detective. The two series were made around 2006 and 2007.

In this particular episode, a young black detective enters the squad room. The other detectives there, all of whom are white and have the totally unreconstructed sexist and racist attitudes that were typical of the time, of course, all start having a pop at the new guy, again using terms I will not repeat. The new guy takes it well enough, and then, in order to get himself onside with them, joins in with some racial self-parody and raises some laughs as a result.

It'd be easy to argue that both scenes are objectionable. But the Life on Mars episode isn't being pulled. At least, not yet. Maybe it's because it was made in the modern era and has a 'knowing' attitude to past prejudices. Maybe Fawlty Towers has been removed because it was simply a reflection of when it was made (1975.)

If one's to be banned and not the other, it displays, at best, confused thinking. And at worst, hypocrisy. But then again, and coming from the modern commentariat, that would hardly be a surprise.

 



Offline NIK

You can still get it on Netflix. I watched it last night to remind myself what the fuss is about. The Major is chatting with Basil about cricket and uses two words which I will not repeat here, to describe the Indian and the West Indian teams. Even Basil thinks the Major's lost it, and clearly the piss is being taken out of the Major's antediluvian attitudes. We laugh at him and those attitudes too. No mistaking that.

I also watched an episode of 'Life on Mars' yesterday. For anyone who's not seen it, it was a two-series run about a present day detective who's in a traffic accident, slips into a coma and then wakes up in 1973. He's still the same guy, and still a detective. The two series were made around 2006 and 2007.

In this particular episode, a young black detective enters the squad room. The other detectives there, all of whom are white and have the totally unreconstructed sexist and racist attitudes that were typical of the time, of course, all start having a pop at the new guy, again using terms I will not repeat. The new guy takes it well enough, and then, in order to get himself onside with them, joins in with some racial self-parody and raises some laughs as a result.

It'd be easy to argue that both scenes are objectionable. But the Life on Mars episode isn't being pulled. At least, not yet. Maybe it's because it was made in the modern era and has a 'knowing' attitude to past prejudices. Maybe Fawlty Towers has been removed because it was simply a reflection of when it was made (1975.)

If one's to be banned and not the other, it displays, at best, confused thinking. And at worst, hypocrisy. But then again, and coming from the modern commentariat, that would hardly be a surprise.

 

As I have said it has now got to the stage of where is the line drawn?
I would suggest the answer to this is impossible as one person’s harmless banter will be regarded by another as objectionable racism. We have seen that on here.
As I have also suggested racism is often in the perception of the accuser, and too often used as an all purpose insult, thereby devaluing its real meaning.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2020, 07:23:50 am by NIK »

Offline tom269u001

This episode I remember won both channel 4s and channel 5s top 100 funniest tv episode in history. Beating both Morecambe and Wise Christmas and Only fools and horses, dell falling though the bar to second and third places.

And now it's been wiped from existence. The voted funniest television episode ever created.
It will be back if not so already

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A pre-show warning is sensible. Removing a classic isn't.

Offline Payyourwaymate

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So this was the thread that GP temp banned..... First PP now GP. I think i'm going to stay away from off topic from now on.

Offline winkywanky

That would be a shame, it's good to hear different voices  :hi:.

Offline Payyourwaymate

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That would be a shame, it's good to hear different voices  :hi:.

I'm not risking reading an inflammatory comment, getting pissed off and then saying something that would get me banned  :lol:.  I'll rather bow out now than be sorry. 

Online Matrix

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I'm not risking reading an inflammatory comment, getting pissed off and then saying something that would get me banned  :lol:.  I'll rather bow out now than be sorry.

Well, like him you'd likely be given fair warning and a chance to follow the rules. Personal responsibilty and all that.

Offline winkywanky

I'm not risking reading an inflammatory comment, getting pissed off and then saying something that would get me banned  :lol:.  I'll rather bow out now than be sorry.


Shoot them down in flames, I often do. Just keep your head.

This is all a very complex issue and many like to be in one 'camp' or the other. It isn't that simple. It's good to equally explore both sides IMO, because there are always two sides.

I don't want to personalise this but I'm pretty sure I'm right in thinking you're Black? One thing which is coming to light is that a lot of the Black community shy away from talking about race issues. I have a pretty good idea why but I think that's a shame. This discussion would simply become like so many other areas, where we frequently hear 'I didn't want to put myself forward or I didn't want to speak up because there's no-one there that looks like me'. It's self-evident that a minority might feel that way, but it's damaging.

It's a loss to all sides when the only voices we hear are from Black activists, or from pissed off people on demos after a guy gets killed by police in the USA.

Offline AnthG

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It will be back if not so already

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A pre-show warning is sensible. Removing a classic isn't.

Amazon are now talking about "banning" Dukes of Hazzard now too. For no reason whatsoever. All because it had the confederate flag on the top of general lee.

Most teenagers don't even knows what that is. So when they watch this they just think its a cool design and nothing more. The theme tune for the show actually calls them modern-day robin hoods. As they save orphanages from bankruptcy and all sorts. But because of a flag on the top of a car. Lets ban it from existence.

« Last Edit: June 14, 2020, 06:09:57 pm by AnthG »
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Offline scutty brown

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Amazon are now talking about "banning" Dukes of Hazzard now too. For no reason whatsoever. All because it had the confederate flag on the top of general lee.

Most teenagers don't even knows what that is. So when they watch this they just think its a cool design and nothing more. The theme tune for the show actually calls them modern-day robin hoods. As they save orphanages from bankruptcy and all sorts. But because of a flag on the top of a car. Lets ban it from existence.

You have to be American to understand that one. Until around 15 years ago the confederate flag was still being flown on top of the Capitol Building in Columbia, South Carolina and it caused real friction. As long as that flag was flown, a large part of the state population were of the opinion that they had no rights, no status, no equality, and no political representation.
Amazon is an American company, and withdrawing the films would  have more significance there. Remember, films about a couple of rednecks kids driving a fake muscle car would have no relevance to most American youth now - the films have outlived their time, there won't be many sales lost

Offline David1970

Most teenagers don't even knows what that is. So when they watch this they just think its a cool design and nothing more.

I am not having a personal go at you AnthG, I would just like to stand up for young people ( which I know won’t be popular on this site) before lock down I had a lot of contact with them through coaching youth teams. Young people today are more informed than my generation ever was, they question and understand more than older generations. They have on their phones more sources of information than I ever did at their age.
Can I ask what was the last time you had a conversation with young people and listen to their views?

Offline Payyourwaymate

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Shoot them down in flames, I often do. Just keep your head.

This is all a very complex issue and many like to be in one 'camp' or the other. It isn't that simple. It's good to equally explore both sides IMO, because there are always two sides.

I don't want to personalise this but I'm pretty sure I'm right in thinking you're Black? One thing which is coming to light is that a lot of the Black community shy away from talking about race issues. I have a pretty good idea why but I think that's a shame. This discussion would simply become like so many other areas, where we frequently hear 'I didn't want to put myself forward or I didn't want to speak up because there's no-one there that looks like me'. It's self-evident that a minority might feel that way, but it's damaging.

It's a loss to all sides when the only voices we hear are from Black activists, or from pissed off people on demos after a guy gets killed by police in the USA.

Yes, I'm black and you are right in your comments that it is damaging to an extent. I am not going fight battles in off topic threads though, that is not going to change much of the complex happenings in society outside of this forum. I would much rather exchange pleasantries with members than debate or argue on sensitive topics...that does not mean that I would run away from the issue if someone asked me a question or called me out on something though, I just prefer to be at peace browsing online really. The last place I want to be pissed off is on my chair browsing a website online at home. 

 :hi:.

Offline NIK

I am not having a personal go at you AnthG, I would just like to stand up for young people ( which I know won’t be popular on this site) before lock down I had a lot of contact with them through coaching youth teams. Young people today are more informed than my generation ever was, they question and understand more than older generations. They have on their phones more sources of information than I ever did at their age.
Can I ask what was the last time you had a conversation with young people and listen to their views?

They are also impressionable and easily manipulated (Hitler youth). And idealistic. Nothing wrong with that you may say, however it also means they can be naive and impractical.
They will discover at some point that life isn't fair and equal and it is unlikely it ever will be. And yes, I have had lots of dealings with young people in my life, and believe it or not I was once on the left of politics (not all that long ago actually), believing that all would be well if we just took from the rich and gave to the poor.

I think never was the indoctrination of the young worse than we saw over Brexit. Several told me they would vote remain if they had been allowed to vote, when asked why they suggested it would be better for them and their futures, but beyond that could offer little concrete detail apart from what they had been spoon fed by the biased media and education system.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2020, 07:07:39 pm by NIK »

Offline AnthG

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Young people today are more informed than my generation ever was, they question and understand more than older generations

I guarantee you, the only things anyone will ever want to do after watching an episode of Dukes of Hazzard is

1. Make moonshine
2. Get into your car through climbing through an open window and not open the door
And
3. Scream YeeHah when driving fast.

They will not, ever, no matter if they watched this show 24/7 every day for 10 years, ever want to own themselves a slave. Which is what the controversy about the flag is - unless I have misunderstood.

Banning Dukes of Hazzard for this would be like banning the A-Team because every episode they used to secretly drug-up Mr-T to get him onto an aeroplane to take them to wherever village needed saving from a Mexican bandit. Every episode they did two things. Burst Murdock out of the mental hospital (even though he was voluntarily a patient there, not mandated), and then drugged up Mr T. When he said he had no problem getting there by any other means than flying.
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Offline MilleMiglia

I believe that toys of the "General Lee" now have a plain roof.

Offline David1970

They are also impressionable and easily manipulated (Hitler youth).
I think that Hitler youth were near to your generation than today’s generation
They question everything and want answers, yes they have fun like all generations, but because of the information sources they have at their finger tips they are better informed and more questioning than any generation before. People my not like the answers they get, but every generation thinks their generations knew the best, it’s a sign of old age.

Offline B4bcock

I guarantee you, the only things anyone will ever want to do after watching an episode of Dukes of Hazzard is

1. Make moonshine
2. Get into your car through climbing through an open window and not open the door
And
3. Scream YeeHah when driving fast.
4. Crack a quick one off whilst the vision of Daisy Duke in her tight denim shorts is still fresh in their mind. . . . . . . or was that just me?   :unknown:    :D

Offline AnthG

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I have a sudden urge to watch Dukes of Hazzard again now after all of this.
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Offline winkywanky

Yes, I'm black and you are right in your comments that it is damaging to an extent. I am not going fight battles in off topic threads though, that is not going to change much of the complex happenings in society outside of this forum. I would much rather exchange pleasantries with members than debate or argue on sensitive topics...that does not mean that I would run away from the issue if someone asked me a question or called me out on something though, I just prefer to be at peace browsing online really. The last place I want to be pissed off is on my chair browsing a website online at home. 

 :hi:.


Fair enough  :hi:

You say: I am not going fight battles in off topic threads though, that is not going to change much of the complex happenings in society outside of this forum. I would disagree with that statement because the more places it gets debated the better, and that's where the real change can happen. That's my point, it needs more than some activists or extremists on a national platform to be talking about it, it needs the rank and file such as us lot here.

Your call though, and it's to be respected.

Online Doc Holliday

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I've tried to keep out of this discussion but I just read this and thought WTF? External Link/Members Only

Offline winkywanky

I'm hoping there might be a completely innocent and coincidental reason for that but I suspect not.

It's a bit like saying having a whiteboard instead of a blackboard in a classroom will help combat racism in schools

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Offline Corus Boy

I'm hoping there might be a completely innocent and coincidental reason for that but I suspect not.

It's a bit like saying having a whiteboard instead of a blackboard in a classroom will help combat racism in schools

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That would be a 'Chalkboard' and a 'markerboard.'

Offline AnthG

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I've tried to keep out of this discussion but I just read this and thought WTF? External Link/Members Only

It reminds me of the story where people spray-painted "Paedo" on the walls of a respected female paediatricians house during the News of the World naming scandal.

People are stupid and this is why this whole thing now should not be allowed to propagate at all, just like the peado thing.
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Offline winkywanky

That would be a 'Chalkboard' and a 'markerboard.'

Why rename them when they already had names?

Offline AnthG

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It's a bit like saying having a whiteboard instead of a blackboard in a classroom will help combat racism in schools

I am waiting for the time someone says Snooker is racist and the black ball should be the dominant ball, not the white, and you win the game by finally downing the white ball, not the black, for 7 points.

It's going to happen someday, you just know it.
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Offline Corus Boy

I am waiting for the time someone says Snooker is racist and the black ball should be the dominant ball, not the white, and you win the game by finally downing the white ball, not the black, for 7 points.

It's going to happen someday, you just know it.

But the black ball is the most valuable.

But the white ball does most of the work! ;)

Offline Corus Boy

Why rename them when they already had names?

But not considered good names is some quarters.

I always thought I was working with a good team, the White chalk and the Black board.

Online Matrix

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Why rename them when they already had names?

We were informed of this shite in my first year of high school, Waaaaay back in 89.

Offline winkywanky

But not considered good names is some quarters.

I always thought I was working with a good team, the White chalk and the Black board.


Why?  :unknown:

For hundreds of years blackboards were called blackboards, because they were written on with chalk (white) and understandably, black in colour.

Then from what I remember, marker boards came in, perhaps in the 70s? They were written on with various coloured marker pens and the boards were white.

The somewhat inevitable naming of them was as whiteboards, again completely logically. I simply cannot see any 'racist' overtones in any of that. So why would anyone feel the need to change them?

I get your comment about black and white working in a team, and that's great. We need to  :thumbsup:.

Offline lostandfound

I suppose if such a literal approach were taken then black people should be called something else, as they're not actually black ...  :crazy:

Offline Corus Boy

I suppose if such a literal approach were taken then black people should be called something else, as they're not actually black ...  :crazy:

Isn't People of Colour the correct label?

Offline lostandfound

Isn't People of Colour the correct label?

Hmm - I guess People of Colour Lives Matter somehow isn't quite as snappy. Is "Coloured" used on its own considered racist? I think it might be.

Offline Corus Boy

Hmm - I guess People of Colour Lives Matter somehow isn't quite as snappy. Is "Coloured" used on its own considered racist? I think it might be.

Perhaps everybody should be given;

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Offline winkywanky