The Guardian is next

[cotton]

Immigrant communities choose not to integrate, and the host nation allows or encourages that? That is doomed to failure. You simply cannot have what would almost be a separate country within a country. What would be the logical conclusion of all that? Well schools would teach only what the locals wanted to teach. That wouldn't include an appreciation of the host country, certainly not a full idea. What about policing? If a community kept to itself and was in effect insular, why would they put up with police from 'outside' telling them what to do? Separate police force. What about laws? Perhaps Sharia law? Or at least a version of, with bits tacked on to suit the locals. The natural corollary of that is your own laws. And what if there were problems within that community? Poverty, infighting, any kind of unrest. Would the host nation simply say 'well that's what you wanted, sort yourself out'? The list goes on. The divide would naturally get bigger and bigger. It would end in disaster. I'm amazed you think it would be a good idea.

Of course the indigenous, majority White community has a responsibility to consider things of a historical sensitivity to minority communities. What that doesn't mean though is that individual communities are always 'right' and always get what they want. Having large immigrant communities with their own histories, their own histories with the host nation, their own religions, their own 'ways' makes things complicated. They all want slightly different things from the govt, both local and national, or they'll in some way want 'special treatment' or a course of action specific to them (I don't mean that's necessarily motivated by selfishness).

Not everyone can have their way, some of it will be selfish bollocks, it's natural for every community to want what it sees as the best for its own, and that includes the indigenous population. What there does need to be of course is some mechanism for communities to be able to make their feelings known. I can't believe that doesn't exist today already. But what doesn't seem to exist is some way of dealing with everything openly, and to properly hear both sides, both at a local and at a national level. There are always two sides. Race is such a sensitive issue, it lives at the very root of who we are. There'll often be deeply held hurt which can straightforwardly be dealt with and it's no big deal. But equally, sometimes you just need to get over yourself because what's done is done and you need to just bloody well get on with it, because in reality, no-one can sort it out but yourself.

If we really were able to speak openly about this stuff and have a proper dialogue, some things would change, some things wouldn't. But at the moment all we hear is one voice, the voice of the 'dissenter', those that feel downtrodden. And what that means is that the feeling of hurt or 'hard done by' is never properly looked at or challenged. It also gives the impression that the dissenter is always right and they feel vindicated all the time, and that perpetuates the sense of being downtrodden.

Yes obviously an embedded immigrant community will be subject to the same laws and subject to the same government.  With the proviso that realistically an immigrant community can to some extent mould how it is governed and policed by democratically taking power and realistically how the police enforce the law will reflect the attitudes of both the people in power and to a lesser extent the people in the community. So effectively you will get a culturally sensitive attitude to policing as is fortunately the case in many areas.  By the same token i dont see the problem with community specific differences to school curriculums , like wheres the harm in teaching community specific foreign languages.
Long term , while you predict this would lead to a greater divide , i dont think so , i think it would lead to a stable and confident local minority community forming a beneficial part of british society as is the case in present day britain. 

[King Nuts]

I'd take issue with one thing in that piece.

The extreme Right Wing scum are of course always waiting in the wings for an opportunity to pop up. It wasn't the death of Floyd, it'll be the ugly and wordlwide furore which came out of it which has rattled their cage.

But sadly I think the backlash will be more widespread than that. There'll be a whole lot more outside of organised RW organisations who will be pissed off because of the overreaction to Floyd's death, and having it rammed down their throats every day, seeing tens of thousands of people breaking the Lockdown they've been personally careful to observe, for example. There'll be a backlash of attitudes unfortunately, more polarisation.

Yes, many people will be sympathetic to the BLM cause, but I think many more than that will be hardened. It'll be on Twitter, it'll be on the street, it won't always be violent nutters.

The fault for this lays on both sides, we are scared to talk openly about the elephant in the room. This stuff should have been dealt with 40yrs ago. Of course it will never be 'dealt with' in the sense that there'll always be people who are unhappy with things, but there's a very big groundswell which I think could have been averted by having a proper national debate, all the way up to govt level, and seen to include everyone's voice. Everything from the Golliwog on the marmalade jar, right up to whether there should be reparations, and everything inbetween.

Your argument assumes that weight of opinion, volume of support, and electoral significance is broadly equal in Right and Left. It isn't.

The so-called Right wing is no more than a rump of hooligans. BNP/EDL etc have no electoral presence whatsoever, and apart from a spate of local council seats in east London in the 1990s, never have had.

Meanwhile, the Left has been slowly turning the centre ground into its own territory. Correctness, banning of certain TV programmes, and a million things I could list.

In the middle, we've got Mr and Mrs Joe Public. They don't want a 'debate'. They don't have an 'agenda'. They work. They have kids to bring up, jobs to do, businesses to run, old folks to look after. They're not interested in BLM. They probably haven't heard of Antifa. Maybe they think it's something you rub on your knee for rheumatism. Or to reduce flatulence.

They may have voted Remain or they may have voted Leave. They like the nice Ghanaian family next door, and their kids play together. They don't understand why we've got bogged down in wars in the Middle East. They don't care who the US president is. They truly don't understand why the death of a career criminal 4,000 miles away, horrible though his murder was, means that statues are being torn down and they can't watch Fawlty Towers any more.

No, the fault does not lay on both sides. The Left, backed up by the BBC and a good chunk of the MSM has slowly been alienating the centre. 'You're with us or you're against us. And if you're not with us, you're scum. You're fascists and racists' etc. This has been the message.

I don't care what anyone says, but this country is probably the easiest and safest in the world to live in if you're black, Asian, gay, LGBT, got one leg or whatever.

The issue is this. How far can you push the centre before the Joe Publics of the country bite back. I suspect quite a long way. These people don't want any trouble, and they're too busy getting on with their lives.

But if they keep being pissed off, we will ultimately see some true disorder.

[Doc Holliday]

Your argument assumes that weight of opinion, volume of support, and electoral significance is broadly equal in Right and Left. It isn't.

The so-called Right wing is no more than a rump of hooligans. BNP/EDL etc have no electoral presence whatsoever, and apart from a spate of local council seats in east London in the 1990s, never have had.

Meanwhile, the Left has been slowly turning the centre ground into its own territory. Correctness, banning of certain TV programmes, and a million things I could list.

In the middle, we've got Mr and Mrs Joe Public. They don't want a 'debate'. They don't have an 'agenda'. They work. They have kids to bring up, jobs to do, businesses to run, old folks to look after. They're not interested in BLM. They probably haven't heard of Antifa. Maybe they think it's something you rub on your knee for rheumatism.

They may have voted Remain or they may have voted Leave. They like the nice Ghanaian family next door, and their kids play together. They don't understand why we've got bogged down in wars in the Middle East. They don't care who the US president is. They truly don't understand why the death of a career criminal 4,000 miles away, horrible though his murder was, means that statues are being torn down and they can't watch Fawlty Towers any more.

No, the fault does not lay on both sides. The Left, backed up by the BBC and a good chunk of the MSM has slowly been alienating the centre. 'You're with us or you're against us. And if you're not with us, you're scum. You're fascists and racists' etc. This has been the message.

I don't care what anyone says, but this country is probably the easiest and safest in the world to live in if you're black, Asian, gay, LGBT, got one leg or whatever.

The issue is this. How far can you push the centre before the Joe Publics of the country bite back. I suspect quite a long way. These people don't want any trouble, and they're too busy getting on with their lives.

But if they keep being pissed off, we will ultimately see some true disorder.

This ^

[winkywanky]

Yes, although I condemn violence & vandalism on all sides, the extreme left, supported by the broadcast media, claim to speak for us all & occasionally need to be reminded they do not at all. The numbers on Twitter who do not subscribe to what they seem to claim are mainstream views are phenomenal.
Meanwhile, why don’t BLM ever seem to protest about the extremely prevalent black on black violence?
I wouldn’t like to be in central London this weekend.

Because that's largely something which they could help sort out themselves by contributing rather than simply complaining, but don't seem to want to. There's many grassroots initiatives set up by the Black community to help here, often staffed and run by previous offenders (and that's great) but they're snowed under and from what I can make out, and little recognition of change from within needing to occur.

The whole subculture which these kids are growing up around is pernicious, it's ingrained in the music they listen to, the videos they watch on their phones, the gangs outside their front doors, waiting to force them into signing up, the drugs culture, the whole crock of shit. For many, they seem to see it as their culture, and to a large degree it's all imported from the US with their talf of Fedz and da 'hood. It's bollocks.

I don't know about any of the political background of BLM, but they seem to be agitators for change without putting forward any possible solutions. Cutting down a load of statues won't do that.

[NIK]

Your argument assumes that weight of opinion, volume of support, and electoral significance is broadly equal in Right and Left. It isn't.

The so-called Right wing is no more than a rump of hooligans. BNP/EDL etc have no electoral presence whatsoever, and apart from a spate of local council seats in east London in the 1990s, never have had.

Meanwhile, the Left has been slowly turning the centre ground into its own territory. Correctness, banning of certain TV programmes, and a million things I could list.

In the middle, we've got Mr and Mrs Joe Public. They don't want a 'debate'. They don't have an 'agenda'. They work. They have kids to bring up, jobs to do, businesses to run, old folks to look after. They're not interested in BLM. They probably haven't heard of Antifa. Maybe they think it's something you rub on your knee for rheumatism. Or to reduce flatulence.

They may have voted Remain or they may have voted Leave. They like the nice Ghanaian family next door, and their kids play together. They don't understand why we've got bogged down in wars in the Middle East. They don't care who the US president is. They truly don't understand why the death of a career criminal 4,000 miles away, horrible though his murder was, means that statues are being torn down and they can't watch Fawlty Towers any more.

No, the fault does not lay on both sides. The Left, backed up by the BBC and a good chunk of the MSM has slowly been alienating the centre. 'You're with us or you're against us. And if you're not with us, you're scum. You're fascists and racists' etc. This has been the message.

I don't care what anyone says, but this country is probably the easiest and safest in the world to live in if you're black, Asian, gay, LGBT, got one leg or whatever.

The issue is this. How far can you push the centre before the Joe Publics of the country bite back. I suspect quite a long way. These people don't want any trouble, and they're too busy getting on with their lives.

But if they keep being pissed off, we will ultimately see some true disorder.

Absolutely spot on! 

The ‘liberal’ extreme left claim to want harmony but they are thoroughly divisive. Can’t believe they are too thick to see this (although some probably are) so the brighter ones must have an agenda, which one assumes is class/race war (not really class, because so many of those they despise are working class) & their hoped for Communist revolution.

[NIK]

Yes, once upon a time I didn’t know what BLM was -  naughty me - Thought it was some variation on BLT. 
I have only just I think worked out what MSM means.
Then again, there was a time when I didn’t know what MILF meant.
And I still think it’s a stupid term.

[winkywanky]

Your argument assumes that weight of opinion, volume of support, and electoral significance is broadly equal in Right and Left. It isn't.

The so-called Right wing is no more than a rump of hooligans. BNP/EDL etc have no electoral presence whatsoever, and apart from a spate of local council seats in east London in the 1990s, never have had.

Meanwhile, the Left has been slowly turning the centre ground into its own territory. Correctness, banning of certain TV programmes, and a million things I could list.

In the middle, we've got Mr and Mrs Joe Public. They don't want a 'debate'. They don't have an 'agenda'. They work. They have kids to bring up, jobs to do, businesses to run, old folks to look after. They're not interested in BLM. They probably haven't heard of Antifa. Maybe they think it's something you rub on your knee for rheumatism. Or to reduce flatulence.

They may have voted Remain or they may have voted Leave. They like the nice Ghanaian family next door, and their kids play together. They don't understand why we've got bogged down in wars in the Middle East. They don't care who the US president is. They truly don't understand why the death of a career criminal 4,000 miles away, horrible though his murder was, means that statues are being torn down and they can't watch Fawlty Towers any more.

No, the fault does not lay on both sides. The Left, backed up by the BBC and a good chunk of the MSM has slowly been alienating the centre. 'You're with us or you're against us. And if you're not with us, you're scum. You're fascists and racists' etc. This has been the message.

I don't care what anyone says, but this country is probably the easiest and safest in the world to live in if you're black, Asian, gay, LGBT, got one leg or whatever.

The issue is this. How far can you push the centre before the Joe Publics of the country bite back. I suspect quite a long way. These people don't want any trouble, and they're too busy getting on with their lives.

But if they keep being pissed off, we will ultimately see some true disorder.

I didn't assume that because I have no idea.

And my comments: "But sadly I think the backlash will be more widespread than that. There'll be a whole lot more outside of organised RW organisations who will be pissed off because of the overreaction to Floyd's death, and having it rammed down their throats every day, seeing tens of thousands of people breaking the Lockdown they've been personally careful to observe, for example. There'll be a backlash of attitudes unfortunately, more polarisation" were to do with 'ordinary people'.

Lots of ordinary people will be pissed off. How many of them will be going on their own demos or gettting into 'disorder', who knows? Some will be drawn into that, a small percentage I guess.

But the bigger damage IMO will be a wider loss of general cohesiveness if we're not careful.

[David1970]

The fastest growing terrorist threat to this country is the far-right, they are polluting the internet, and some sad people recycle their lies. Their tactics are to claim your should be afraid of people who are different from you and telling you that you are under threat.
I don’t agree with violence from left or right, extremist are always a problem wherever they come from, they want to use simple minded people and turn them into their supporters.

[Matrix]

I wonder when the "apolitical" Royal family will be dragged into this? 😂

[King Nuts]

The fastest growing terrorist threat to this country is the far-right, they are polluting the internet, and some sad people recycle their lies.

Really? Got any examples?

[David1970]

I wonder when the "apolitical" Royal family will be dragged into this? 😂

I think the will try to keep out of this, but Philip has some classic comments from his past that will be dragged up soon.

[David1970]

Really? Got any examples?

Reply #97

[NIK]

I didn't assume that because I have no idea.

And my comments: "But sadly I think the backlash will be more widespread than that. There'll be a whole lot more outside of organised RW organisations who will be pissed off because of the overreaction to Floyd's death, and having it rammed down their throats every day, seeing tens of thousands of people breaking the Lockdown they've been personally careful to observe, for example. There'll be a backlash of attitudes unfortunately, more polarisation" were to do with 'ordinary people'.

Lots of ordinary people will be pissed off. How many of them will be going on their own demos or gettting into 'disorder', who knows? Some will be drawn into that, a small percentage I guess.

But the bigger damage IMO will be a wider loss of general cohesiveness if we're not careful.

Well, as I have said I initially had sympathy for Floyd, as I think most human beings would. However because of the hysterical overreaction, the violence and the fact that these lefty academics, agitators and commentators  - not forgetting virtue signalling celebs (all types of people I cannot stand and who wouldn’t know a proper day’s work) have inevitably jumped on the bandwagon, what initial sympathy I had has been overtaken by revulsion.
This is a pity and ironically they have done exactly the opposite of what they were trying to do. I guess one needs to retain sympathy for the original victim and revulsion about what happened to him, whilst trying to separate it from feelings about those who have exploited it.

I think there must be thousands who feel the same way.

[winkywanky]

Like I said, there needs to be proper debate in this country now.

We can all do without his shit happening during Covid (and of course that is part of the reason this has come about anyway, lots of people are on the edge) but all sides need to engage, not just one side reacting somewhat reluctantly to the other's 'demands'.

[winkywanky]

I think the will try to keep out of this, but Philip has some classic comments from his past that will be dragged up soon.

FFS you're so right   

[NIK]

The fastest growing terrorist threat to this country is the far-right, they are polluting the internet, and some sad people recycle their lies. Their tactics are to claim your should be afraid of people who are different from you and telling you that you are under threat.
I don’t agree with violence from left or right, extremist are always a problem wherever they come from, they want to use simple minded people and turn them into their supporters.

More threatening than Islamic extremism?
Perhaps a crass thing to do but it might be worthwhile tallying the numbers of respective victims. Off the top of my head I can think of 2 or 3 far right attacks all involving single victims. How does this compare with Manchester, London Bridge, Westminster, 7/7, Lee Rigby, etc, etc?

[King Nuts]

But the bigger damage IMO will be a wider loss of general cohesiveness if we're not careful.

Quite. Order is kept, not through laws and policing, but by a form of social compact. We mostly behave well to each other, and we don't need regulations to enforce that. We behave because we each want a piece of freedom for ourselves, and we know that the price is not to piss other people off any more than is absoutely necessary.

The Left, of course, has always hated that. People need to be controlled, ordered, organised. For their own good.

And now, BLM/Antifa and assorted Marxist loonies have come along and punched a massive hole in this compact. They have forced a division where none previously existed.

Starmer backs them up. So do all the luvvies, half the MSM, and when I see the fuzz on bended knee and the Cenotaph boarded up, I truly despair. KhanDick is onside too. It really is lamentable.

Well, they can all fuck off. I'm not repenting for anything and I'm not getting sucked into their BS.

[Matrix]

I'm not interested in his comments. I'm more interested in standards.

If there's one family who have and still do benefit from all that torture in days past, it's the Windsors.

Let's also not forget marx who was seriously unfriendly towards other ethnicites and absolutely pro slavery.

When are his statues coming down?

[winkywanky]

Quite. Order is kept, not through laws and policing, but by a form of social compact. We mostly behave well to each other, and we don't need regulations to enforce that. We behave because we each want a piece of freedom for ourselves, and we know that the price is not to piss other people off any more than is absoutely necessary.

Policing is by consent.

When that general consent and consensus is gone, we're fucked.

[King Nuts]

Reply #97

A few thousand nutters in bedrooms. Have not seen them yet engaged in blowing things up, radicalising others in jail, and so on.

Statistically insignificant. Channel Four spin.

[Matrix]

You are correct there is a backlash and it is nasty

External Link/Members Only

Strange how they only see one side of the venom that's being spouted by both "sides".

[NIK]

A few thousand nutters in bedrooms. Have not seen them yet engaged in blowing things up, radicalising others in jail, and so on.

Statistically insignificant. Channel Four spin.

He really is a ‘silly sausage‘.
However what is concerning is that lots of others make similar, statistically nonsensical, statements.

[Corus Boy]

Has "It Ain't Alf Hot" been exposed yet? 

[NIK]

Strange how they only see one side of the venom that's being spouted by both "sides".

Don’t think it’s strange, merely typical.

[winkywanky]

Has "It Ain't Alf Hot" been exposed yet? 

Only a matter of time.

[King Nuts]

Policing is by consent.

When that general consent and consensus is gone, we're fucked.

That's the point. It's not 'consent' any more.

I saw those two coppers being attacked in Hackney. People standing around, filming it. It is inconceivable that something like that would've happened 30 or 40 years ago. Where I live, it's inconceivable that it would happen now.

The fuzz have to regain trust. It's not meeting us halfway. They have to do the work. Stop dressing like paramilitaries. Get off your knees and stop painting your cars in rainbows.

Get on the beat. Get to know your neighbourhood. Get out of those £50,000 BMWs from time to time. That's how trust can be rebuilt.

[NIK]

Has "It Ain't Alf Hot" been exposed yet? 

It Ain’t Half Hot’ got the chop years ago.
Think I will binge on my box set this weekend! 

[NIK]

That's the point. It's not 'consent' any more.

 It is inconceivable that something like that would've happened 30 or 40 years ago.

But our woke warriors keep telling us we have to embrace change, move with the times and don’t stay rooted in the past, don’t you know. 

[winkywanky]

That's the point. It's not 'consent' any more.

I saw those two coppers being attacked in Hackney. People standing around, filming it. It is inconceivable that something like that would've happened 30 or 40 years ago. Where I live, it's inconceivable that it would happen now.

The fuzz have to regain trust. It's not meeting us halfway. They have to do the work. Stop dressing like paramilitaries. Get off your knees and stop painting your cars in rainbows.

Get on the beat. Get to know your neighbourhood. Get out of those £50,000 BMWs from time to time. That's how trust can be rebuilt.

That made my blood boil.

And I don't see a fully round condemnation of that, which is fucking despicable.

Yes the police need to do work too, but they are too few in number now unfortunately. That's on its way apparently, but a long way off nevertheless.

But as for dropping the paramilitary stuff...a lot of that bulk is anti-stab vests, bodycams, Taser holster etc. Sadly those are all necessary in inner city areas unfortunately.

On a lighter note, apparently those pieces of shit who were attacking the coppers have been apprehended.

[King Nuts]

Like I said, there needs to be proper debate in this country now.

There's not going to be a debate. My aforementioned Mr and Mrs Joe Public aren't going to take part. They're not interested.

'Debate' on TV at least, usually consists of four socialists and/or academics ganging up on one lone normal person.

The current Govt has to step up and deal with this torrent of feculence. They'll get massive support if they do.

[winkywanky]

There's not going to be a debate. My aforementioned Mr and Mrs Joe Public aren't going to take part. They're not interested.

'Debate' on TV at least, usually consists of four socialists and/or academics ganging up on one lone normal person.

The current Govt has to step up and deal with this torrent of feculence. They'll get massive support if they do.

I don't mean on telly, I mean with all groups, community leaders, 'movement' leaders, local govt, national govt.

Too much on the plate at the moment with Covid and Brexit, but a commitment now to deal with it, and coming up with a means to do it which can later be put into effect.

There are genuine grievances to be heard, but what we've seen recently is no way to deal with them, ie the baying mob and the politically-interested.

Equally, you can't just sweep it under the carpet.

At the moment the general perception for too many is that 'the Establishment' needs to put this all 'right'. That's wrong, it needs to be challenged, it needs to be spoken to.

[King Nuts]

I don't mean on telly, I mean with all groups, community leaders, 'movement' leaders, local govt, national govt.

Too much on the plate at the moment with Covid and Brexit, but a commitment now to deal with it, and coming up with a means to do it which can later be put into effect.

There are genuine grievances to be heard, but what we've seen recently is no way to deal with them, ie the baying mob and the politically-interested.

Equally, you can't just sweep it under the carpet.

At the moment the general perception for too many is that 'the Establishment' needs to put this all 'right'. That's wrong, it needs to be challenged, it needs to be spoken to.

You're right, but I can't see it happening. People just aren't THAT interested. Or they weren't, until Fawlty Towers was taken away from them. I dunno, maybe they will be now.

The Establishment won't fix itself, as we all know. Civil disobedience goes against the grain with nearly everyone. Ditto rioting and going on demos.

[Colston36]

How many more times do you need to be told, this endless cultural battering we wicked white people are getting is actually having the opposite effect on many of us. For example, what sympathy I initially had for Floyd has dissolved. And, as I say I am sure I am not the only one. One old feller on the local phone in has said virtually as much. An ex miner who voted Labour all his life, says he is made to feel guilty for voting Conservative and reading the Mail.

Now here's expecting you to reply with some pathetic, snide personal comment against me as that is your usual style.

"For example, what sympathy I initially had for Floyd has dissolved". The poor man was murdered in the most painful way. Clearly your sympathy is a rare commodity, not worth a bucket of warm spit as LBJ put it.

[David1970]

A few thousand nutters in bedrooms. Have not seen them yet engaged in blowing things up, radicalising others in jail, and so on.

Statistically insignificant. Channel Four spin.

You dismiss it as Channel Four spin
The report was done by the Community Security Trust, hardly a liberal or radical origination. Their intelligence gathering is first class as are their links to various law enforcement and security organisation. They are to the right on any political spectrum.

[King Nuts]

You dismiss it as Channel Four spin
The report was done by the Community Security Trust, hardly a liberal or radical origination. Their intelligence gathering is first class as are their links to various law enforcement and security organisation. They are to the right on any political spectrum.

Never heard of them. Not saying it's untrue or that they made it up. I am saying that the co-called Far Right is statistically insignificant.

[David1970]

Never heard of them. Not saying it's untrue or that they made it up. I am saying that the co-called Far Right is statistically insignificant.

I wouldn’t expect you to have heard of them.
Small numbers can indoctrinate more usefully fools to be radicalised on line, which leads to direct action, on the right or left.
The big growth area as the report shows is in the far-right

[Global_Punter]

You quoted NIK's "how to stop racism" post and then responded to it. NIK posted that before the rules were clarified so at the time was OK, any response since the clarification was not, regardless of how many others had posted replies.

Seems the rules was edited on June 07, 2020 then clarified, NIK posted this yesterday - since then there's been lots of post, most recent post from NIK come across very far left and race related. He hasn't even tried to water it done.

Constant and persistent attack on blacks, with little opposite, let not forget there's coloured folks on this forum that may find it offensive. I understand this guy previously owned the site but he doesn't now.

This also after a highlighted @Auth post before yesterday, could I possibly leave it as I've read a lot of vitriol that's not likely to be opposed. Some of which honestly makes me sick in the stomach.

More threatening than Islamic extremism?
Perhaps a crass thing to do but it might be worthwhile tallying the numbers of respective victims. Off the top of my head I can think of 2 or 3 far right attacks all involving single victims. How does this compare with Manchester, London Bridge, Westminster, 7/7, Lee Rigby, etc, etc?

Yes, although I condemn violence & vandalism on all sides, the extreme left, supported by the broadcast media, claim to speak for us all & occasionally need to be reminded they do not at all. The numbers on Twitter who do not subscribe to what they seem to claim are mainstream views are phenomenal.
Meanwhile, why don’t BLM ever seem to protest about the extremely prevalent black on black violence?
I wouldn’t like to be in central London this weekend.

How many more times do you need to be told, this endless cultural battering we wicked white people are getting is actually having the opposite effect on many of us. For example, what sympathy I initially had for Floyd has dissolved. And, as I say I am sure I am not the only one. One old feller on the local phone in has said virtually as much. An ex miner who voted Labour all his life, says he is made to feel guilty for voting Conservative and reading the Mail.

Now here's expecting you to reply with some pathetic, snide personal comment against me as that is your usual style.

[NIK]

"For example, what sympathy I initially had for Floyd has dissolved". The poor man was murdered in the most painful way. Clearly your sympathy is a rare commodity, not worth a bucket of warm spit as LBJ put it.

As was Lee Rigby.
Where is the left bleating about him?
Or was he an ‘imperialist’ soldier so doesn’t matter?
The hypocrisy of the left is sickening.

[daviemac]

Seems the rules was edited on June 07, 2020 then clarified, NIK posted this yesterday - since then there's been lots of post, most recent post from NIK come across very far left and race related. He hasn't even tried to water it done.

Constant and persistent attack on blacks, with little opposite, let not forget there's coloured folks on this forum that may find it offensive. I understand this guy previously owned the site but he doesn't now.

This also after a highlighted @Auth post before yesterday, could I possibly leave it as I've read a lot of vitriol that's not likely to be opposed. Some of which honestly makes me sick in the stomach.

I think the only way to resolve this is to ban you which would be a shame but you just can't take a hint. We'll see if a 3 day ban makes any difference, if not it will be permanent.

[David1970]

As was Lee Rigby.
Where is the left bleating about him?
Or was he an ‘imperialist’ soldier so doesn’t matter?
The hypocrisy of the left is sickening.

I think the murder of Lee Rigby was unjustifiable and horrendous same as the murder of George Floyd.
Both murders need to be condemned as they are by most moderate people, unfortunately those on the extreme ends of society only condemned one, to justify their warped views.

[NIK]

I think the only way to resolve this is to ban you which would be a shame but you just can't take a hint. We'll see if a 3 day ban makes any difference, if not it will be permanent.

Yes. I do not believe there is anything in my posts he highlighted which could be constituted as ‘racist’, rather they could be statistically proven. The problem with the term is it is often based on someone else’s perception.

I am also aware we have many black members who of course have always been very welcome. Indeed two of our most sensible posters I know to be black.

[Yankee21]

As was Lee Rigby.
Where is the left bleating about him?
Or was he an ‘imperialist’ soldier so doesn’t matter?
The hypocrisy of the left is sickening.

As ex-mil, I find that quite a weird comment to make Nik.

I think the condemnation of Michael Adebolajo and Michael Adebowale from both 'left and right' was fairly definite and unilateral.
No-one was 'bleating' and certainly not chatting any nonsense about imperialism.

[daviemac]

Yes. I do not believe there is anything in my posts he highlighted which could be constituted as ‘racist’, rather they could be statistically proven. The problem with the term is it is often based on someone else’s perception.

I am also aware we have many black members who of course have always been very welcome. Indeed two of our most sensible posters I know to be black.

I did not say your post was racist, I said it was on the subject of race and the topic of race is not allowed, whether it has racist connotations or not. I pointed out Head1's post which clearly states no race issues at all. I tried telling him, twice, that it is no longer allowed but he wouldn't have it.

No race issues at all. Some people have posted some well written and thought out pieces on race issues that were not racist but there is a fine line and a lot of the replies are contrived and could be thought of as racist.
It's getting a headache so.........

There's even this header at the top of the off topic page, I just can't understand the logic in trying to push boundaries.

For general chat not related to punting - Forum Rules Apply. No Religion, Racism or Race Issues At All!!!

This, as you know, is predominately a punting forum, off topic was brought back (after OldAdmin deleted it) because of the CV situation, there aren't many rules is it really that difficult to adhere to them. 

[NIK]

I did not say your post was racist, I said it was on the subject of race and the topic of race is not allowed, whether it has racist connotations or not. I pointed out Head1's post which clearly states no race issues at all. I tried telling him, twice, that it is no longer allowed but he wouldn't have it. There's even this header at the top of the off topic page, I just can't understand the logic in trying to push boundaries.
This, as you know, is predominately a punting forum, off topic was brought back (after OldAdmin deleted it) because of the CV situation, there aren't many rules is it really that difficult to adhere to them.

Fair enough, but he said it was racist.
Perhaps politics needs to be added to the above then as all these areas overlap?
The problem is it is also current affairs, and in an off topic section people will naturally want to post about issues currently in the news.
Maybe we should just stick to music, films and tv?

Not forgetting punting. 

[The Film Director]

I did not say your post was racist, I said it was on the subject of race and the topic of race is not allowed, whether it has racist connotations or not. I pointed out Head1's post which clearly states no race issues at all. I tried telling him, twice, that it is no longer allowed but he wouldn't have it. There's even this header at the top of the off topic page, I just can't understand the logic in trying to push boundaries.
This, as you know, is predominately a punting forum, off topic was brought back (after OldAdmin deleted it) because of the CV situation, there aren't many rules is it really that difficult to adhere to them.

Not trying to be funny DM, but virtually all of this thread is on the subject of 'race' and how it divides society.

[mh]

Apparently the League of Gentlemen has gone the way of Little Britain

Little Britain's blackface stuff deserved it, not funny, not clever, just dire and insulting. "Come Fly With Me" was even worse.

But League of Gentlemen's Papa Lazarou? That was taking the piss out of blacking up, perhaps, but not "blackface". No way in a zillion years was that meant to be impersonating a black person. FFS.

[daviemac]

Fair enough, but he said it was racist.
Perhaps politics needs to be added to the above then as all these areas overlap?
The problem is it is also current affairs, and in an off topic section people will naturally want to post about issues currently in the news.
Maybe we should just stick to music, films and tv?

Not forgetting punting. 

He got the temporary ban.   

Perhaps you're right about politics, though I don't make the rules. I'm sure news stories could be discussed without bringing the issue of race in general into it.

[winkywanky]

Little Britain's blackface stuff deserved it, not funny, not clever, just dire and insulting. "Come Fly With Me" was even worse.

But League of Gentlemen's Papa Lazarou? That was taking the piss out of blacking up, perhaps, but not "blackface". No way in a zillion years was that meant to be impersonating a black person. FFS.

Agreed, and sadly the same as a lot of other stuff which is getting dragged into all this, the hysteria we're now seeing means that things which shouldn't be apologised for, are being apologised for.

There is a rush to be seen as politically sympathetic to BLM and a lot of unnecessary hand-wringing.

The handwringing and unnecessary apologies only serve to embolden and encourage the activists, professional snowflakes and obsessively downtrodden 'victims'. If it carries on like this there will be a whole sea of shit to wade through, and it will be never-ending. It will polarise moderates and do a lot of damage to race relations in the UK for years to come.

[Matrix]

As ex-mil, I find that quite a weird comment to make Nik.

I think the condemnation of Michael Adebolajo and Michael Adebowale from both 'left and right' was fairly definite and unilateral.
No-one was 'bleating' and certainly not chatting any nonsense about imperialism.

Not at Parkhead, it's wasn't.

[David1970]

Not at Parkhead, it's wasn't.

Very few below south of the border will get that, but yes sadly you are correct, the Green Brigade can hardly be called rational or moderate