Which albums are overated / underrated?

[NIK]

I am still ploughing away at getting my music back on the computer and then back onto the phone, having inadvertently removed it as I explained in an earlier thread. Now back up to over 15,000 so am past half way. 

I was thinking which albums do we own because we think we should rather than because we enjoy them?

I suggested earlier than I don't like Brian Johnson's voice. Bon Scott's can also be irritating if I'm not in the mood, but as I read somewhere, Johnson makes Scott sound like Caruso.
The only Johnson AC/DC album I had was naturally Black in Black, which is still the seventh best selling album of all time. I got rid of the cd ages ago but kept in in itunes. I have just played it again, and for the life of me I can't hear why it has sold so many. The best bit is the bells at the beginning.   Apart from Johnson's voice, which sounds like fingernails scraping a blackboard, the songs aren't even as good as earlier AC/DC material. I am not the world's greatest AC/DC fan anyway, but in my opinion Let There Be Rock is a far better album. Consequently Back in Black has now gone altogether. 

Similarly, I have the complete box set of Paul Simon's albums, but I can't be arsed to upload his most celebrated album Graceland, as I have never particularly enjoyed it and am now sick of it. I much prefer Songs From The Capeman, which I think is excellent, yet that got a critical drubbing whilst Graceland is the critics darling. 

And back to the good old Who again. I think it's now generally accepted that Quadrophenia is better than Tommy - I always thought so anyway - but that wasn't always the case.

As for Zeppelin, I have always preferred the first album to the more celebrated second one and think Houses of the Holy is at least the equal of its far more revered predecessor fourth album. Then again, HOTH was one the first Zep and one of the first albums I ever bought not long after it was originally released.

And as for New Order, I prefer the more straight rock music of their 21c albums to the clattering dance/electro of their earlier period which made their name. Admittedly, had they not embraced that style in the 80s they probably wouldn't have made it. Yes I know they were Joy Division, but had they recorded the type of music of their 21c albums in the 80s they would have become a mere footnote in rock history.

As for Queen, although I hate their later material, I still have their earlier albums, including the one with Bohemian Rhapsody, as every home should have  but there are still 10,000+ songs I need to upload before that!

[FLYING BLUE]

I always felt 'The Wall' by Pink Floyd to be very average - until I saw the film, and then it all became very clear indeed - excellent

Perhaps controversial but, I find pretty much everything by Oasis to be overrated.

[bhudda]

Perhaps controversial but, I find pretty much everything by Oasis to be overrated.

Not in the least controversial in my opinion.

[smiths]

2 underrated albums for me are;

Days Of Speed-Paul Weller, an acoustic album of songs from The Jam to his solo work, Noel Gallagher played guitar on a couple tracks but apart from that its just Weller with his acoustic guitar and voice. Most certainly his best live album in my view, and for me his best album overall.

Playing To An Audience Of One-David Soul, Soul was massive here during punk, in fact he sold shed loads of singles for a couple of years. What he had was a great smooth voice and some good songwriters in my opinion. His voice then wasn't quite as silky as Glen Campbells but it wasn't far off.

Overrated for me are;

The White Album-The Beatles, for me its all over the place, which is something McCartney says he likes about it.

Let It Be-The Beatles, the original version had the famous wall of sound on it much against McCartneys wishes, the Stripped down version is much better for me.

[bhudda]

I used to think quadrophenia was better than tommy, but listening to tommy again a couple of years ago (and possibly with the advantage of a better stereo now im old) i think theyre both very good.

[A Decent Fist]

Never been able to stand Astral Weeks by Van Morrison. I like most of his early solo stuff but to my ears AW has no good tunes and the lyrics are untypically fey and whimsical.

I agree that The Wall is very over-rated. Never wanted to see the film so don't know if that will make an difference. Animals was a humdrum album with a great cover. Pink Floyd lost nearly all of their magic after Wish You Were Here, IMHO.

[cotton]

Playing To An Audience Of One-David Soul, Soul was massive here during punk, in fact he sold shed loads of singles for a couple of years. What he had was a great smooth voice and some good songwriters in my opinion. His voice then wasn't quite as silky as Glen Campbells but it wasn't far off.

I bought that album cos i liked silver lady 

[The Film Director]

Overrated.

The Strokes 1st album - Is This It? (quite appropriate really  ).  It's a decent album, but I'm sure I saw a poll (in NME?) where it was in the top 5 albums of all time  .

London Calling - The Clash.  I like it but much prefer the 1st album - London Calling broke them in the US => it is a more conventional 'rock' album.

Most things by Radiohead - The Bends is the only album I would likely play today.

[Ali Katt]

I can't comment on classic rock, but I can comment on what I do listen to:

Nirvana - Overrated Nevermind and to an extent In Utero. Underrated - Bleach, all killer no filler without experimental tracks that go nowhere and an obvious nod to bands Cobain likes such as the Vaselines and Butthole Surfers.

Green Day - Overrated - American Idiot, Nimrod, Warning. Underrated -Insomniac, Kerplunk, Smoothed Out Sloppy Hours.

Blink 182 - Overrated - Take off your jacket and pants. Underrated - Neighbourhoods, Dude Ranch.

Therapy? - Overrated - Infernal Love. Underrated - Disquiet.

For Indie Fans:
Overrated (slightly?) - The Kooks Inside In\Out, Strokes - Is This It?
Underrated - Dog Is Dead - Our Favourite Stories, Catfish And The Bottlemen - The Balcony, All Twilight Sad.

Overrated GnR -Use Your Illusion. Underrated - Lies.

Overrated Darkness - Permission to Land. Underrated - One Way Ticket and Hot Leg.

[Ali Katt]

Overrated.

The Strokes 1st album - Is This It? (quite appropriate really  ).  It's a decent album, but I'm sure I saw a poll (in NME?) where it was in the top 5 albums of all time  .

London Calling - The Clash.  I like it but much prefer the 1st album - London Calling broke them in the US => it is a more conventional 'rock' album.

Most things by Radiohead - The Bends is the only album I would likely play today.

That and Pablo Honey, everything else is dreary, art rock for stoned apathetic students.

[tesla]

Perhaps controversial but, I find pretty much everything by Oasis to be overrated.

I have to agree, not just overrated but total crap

[NIK]

Would agree with many of the comments in the thread.

The Wall does have some good music - notably Comfortably Numb, but is hard to like.  (As indeed is Roger Waters!   ) Indeed, although Floyd are a great band who have made some great music, I would argue that they only have 3 great albums - Piper, Dark Side and Wish You Were Here. The rest, although containing some great music, were inconsistent, to say the least.

I have never really bothered with the Strokes, but the bits and pieces I have heard from that album are nothing special at all and to me it seems wildly overrated.

Afraid I certainly prefer London Calling over the Clash's one note debut (apart from Police and Thieves) where all the other songs sound similar.

I think Nirvana and Kurt Cobain are vastly overrated. Then again I think grunge in general is. It just seems like slow metal to me - you may as well listen to Sabbath and have done with it. I had a mate who came to Nirvana and Nevermind late - I had already heard them -  and when he heard them he started having orgasms about them, calling the track On A Plane the greatest song he'd ever heard. I gave it another listen and couldn't understand what the fuck he was on about. I remember seeing the DVD of Nirvana at Reading and Cobain was wearing a white doctor's coat and rolling around screaming - bloody rubbish! Can't stand Dace Grohl either.

Astral Weeks is a very strange case. I can understand why some rave over it, as it is full of original soundscapes, but it's pretty heavy going. And the reason it's strange is that although it is routinely described as Morrison's greatest album, I have a triple definitive compilation and despite it containing over 50 tracks there isn't a single one from Astral Weeks.
VM must be the only artist ever to have a huge compilation that doesn't include a single song from his supposed best album. Personally I prefer the follow up Moondance, which contains my favourite VM song - not the overplayed title track, but the excellent Into The Mystic.

[NIK]

I actually like Oasis.   

As for Radiohead, two great albums The Bends and OK Computer. After that self indulgent shite.
Maybe they are good again though as I lost track.

[The Film Director]

Also overrated - Bruce Springsteen - Born In The USA.  I'm a big fan of the Boss, but mainly his earlier stuff (The Rising is also decent).

[smiths]

I bought that album cos i liked silver lady 

Which wasn't on the original release, it became a big hit and was added to the album.

[Ali Katt]

I actually like Oasis.   

As for Radiohead, two great albums The Bends and OK Computer. After that self indulgent shite.
Maybe they are good again though as I lost track.

IMO the good Oasis tracks are the ones nobody talks about that much: Slide Away, What's the Story, Hindu Times, Bring It on Down, Up In the sky etc.

[smiths]

Would agree with many of the comments in the thread.

The Wall does have some good music - notably Comfortably Numb, but is hard to like.  (As indeed is Roger Waters!   ) Indeed, although Floyd are a great band who have made some great music, I would argue that they only have 3 great albums - Piper, Dark Side and Wish You Were Here. The rest, although containing some great music, were inconsistent, to say the least.

I have never really bothered with the Strokes, but the bits and pieces I have heard from that album are nothing special at all and to me it seems wildly overrated.

Afraid I certainly prefer London Calling over the Clash's one note debut (apart from Police and Thieves) where all the other songs sound similar.

I think Nirvana and Kurt Cobain are vastly overrated. Then again I think grunge in general is. It just seems like slow metal to me - you may as well listen to Sabbath and have done with it. I had a mate who came to Nirvana and Nevermind late - I had already heard them -  and when he heard them he started having orgasms about them, calling the track On A Plane the greatest song he'd ever heard. I gave it another listen and couldn't understand what the fuck he was on about. I remember seeing the DVD of Nirvana at Reading and Cobain was wearing a white doctor's coat and rolling around screaming - bloody rubbish! Can't stand Dace Grohl either.

Astral Weeks is a very strange case. I can understand why some rave over it, as it is full of original soundscapes, but it's pretty heavy going. And the reason it's strange is that although it is routinely described as Morrison's greatest album, I have a triple definitive compilation and despite it containing over 50 tracks there isn't a single one from Astral Weeks.
VM must be the only artist ever to have a huge compilation that doesn't include a single song from his supposed best album. Personally I prefer the follow up Moondance, which contains my favourite VM song - not the overplayed title track, but the excellent Into The Mystic.

I am on a different page to you regarding Floyd, Piper is Barretts self indulgent drivel in the main, nursery rhyme crap to my ears, him taking a trip too far was very sad for him, but great for Waters as he later proved. Meddle is a great album as is Obscured By Clouds in my book. I like The Wall, then they finished off with The Final Cut, all Waters, the best "Floyd album for me, and The Division Bell, mainly all Gilmore, my second fave Floyd album.

Animals is grossly overrated but still better than A Momentary Lapse Of Reason.

I agree about Nirvana though I do like their MTV live set including an excellent version of Bowies The Man Who Sold The World.

Astral Weeks is also grossly overrated as is VM to me, I like some of his hits, apart from that a lot of his stuff is drivel.

[King Nuts]

There's an album that doesn't seem to feature much in people's Top Ten lists, or have tracks played on Desert Island Discs, but that IMHO is one of the finest records ever made. I speak of none other than Donald Fagen's 'The Nightfly'.

First album thought to have been recorded digitally, it's a work of musical and technical perfection. Been listening to it for nigh on 40 years and it never fails to charm.

Sonically enchanting and lyrically wistful, your record collection is not complete without it.

External Link/Members Only

[smiths]

I actually like Oasis.   

As for Radiohead, two great albums The Bends and OK Computer. After that self indulgent shite.
Maybe they are good again though as I lost track.

Once again I agree with you about Radiohead and I have all their albums, a very hard group to get into for me, I didn't like them in the 90s at all but I now love Ok Computer and The Bends, not much else I like though.

Similar with Oasis, I like Definitely Maybe and love Whats The Story but no other original album anywhere near as much as those first 2. Noel got all self indulgent as he became rich and famous.

[smiths]

An underrated album for me is Melanie Chisholms Northern Star made and released in 1999, I don't like the lead single Goin Down but like all the other tracks, a diverse album with different musical genres on it. She could sing unlike most of the other Spice Girls. IMO her big mistake was to move to the US and go all Americana, a motorway became a freeway. She has done some real drivel over the years.

Also underrated in my book is Sinead OConnors Sean-Nos Nua album of Irish songs including a great version of Lord Baker with Christy Moore.

And The Hardline According To Terence Trent Darby which apart from the big hits of the time has a fave song of mine on it, Ill Never Turn My Back On You (Fathers Words). Both these last 2 have changed their names though Darby did so years ago.

[FLYING BLUE]

Underated albums

Killer - Alice Cooper (the group, not the person) - flat our rock with epic songs like Dead Babies, Halo of flies & Desperado

Love it to death - Group as above - Garage rock bordering on prog in some cases (The Ballad of Dwight Frye), the classic "I'm Eighteen" breakthrough single.

Overrated
Anything Alice Cooper (the person, not the band) has done since they split up in 1974/1975 - I guess "welcome to my nightmare" was ok in parts

[NIK]

Also overrated - Bruce Springsteen - Born In The USA.  I'm a big fan of the Boss, but mainly his earlier stuff (The Rising is also decent).

Totally agree. I like Springsteen and The Rising is a great album, but I have always hated the title track of Born in the USA ever since I first heard it. One of those gets on your nerves songs.

[NIK]

Underated albums

Killer - Alice Cooper (the group, not the person) - flat our rock with epic songs like Dead Babies, Halo of flies & Desperado

Love it to death - Group as above - Garage rock bordering on prog in some cases (The Ballad of Dwight Frye), the classic "I'm Eighteen" breakthrough single.

Overrated
Anything Alice Cooper (the person, not the band) has done since they split up in 1974/1975 - I guess "welcome to my nightmare" was ok in parts

Agree. Early Alice was the best. However he has made some excellent albums this century. Much of his 80s and 90s output was crap. And I never like Poison, his biggest post 70s hit.

[smiths]

Making Movies-Dire Straits great album though woefully short, same with Love Over Gold. Before Knopfler went power mad and completely self indulgent they were a great band in my book. He couldn't follow the brilliant Brothers In Arms up which is still an album I blast out quite a bit, and I am not surprised he couldn't though he has done some ok solo albums and a good one with Emmy-Lou Harris.

I cant recall how rated it was on release but for me Dare-The Human League was a great album then and is now, another I play a lot.

Another one I cant recall if it was rated on release is Stings All This Time, a real jazzy feel to it, live and happened on 9/11/2001, I have the dvd version as well and he speaks of the obvious sadness the news caused and what was going to be an upbeat occasion was changed to something much more sombre. Its his best live album for me, and in fact like with Paul Weller his best overall album and one I come back to again and again, it is the jazzy feel to it that appeals so much to me.

Though I like every album they did I think Blue Is The Colour-The Beautiful South is a classic, Heaton was and is a fantastic songwriter. Also his first solo album under the name Crackerman is great, it did very poorly upon release though.

[smiths]

One of thee most underrated singers for me was Black aka Colin Vearncombe who sadly died in 2016 after a car accident I think.

He had a big hit with Wonderful Life but did loads of albums over the years, his 80s albums Wonderful Life, Black and Comedy are all excellent, but I also liked some of his other stuff.

[scutty brown]

Hawklords - 25 Years On

When Hawkwind released this back in 1977 it was universally vilified - probably because it was too musical. Essentially a .Bob Calvert solo project bordering on poetry set to new wave, the regular fans hated it. Its Calvert's warning against Thatcherism - his vision of a world after 25 years of totalitarian rule. Too much for the fans to take on board.
But the more I listen to it, the more convinced I am that its Hawkwinds most musical and best work.
Nowadays Calvert is a side note in Hawkwind history, with Brock sometimes reprising one or two of his tunes in live concert. I often wonder what Captain Calvert would have achieved further if he'd lived.

External Link/Members Only

[NIK]

Hawklords - 25 Years On

When Hawkwind released this back in 1977 it was universally vilified - probably because it was too musical. Essentially a .Bob Calvert solo project bordering on poetry set to new wave, the regular fans hated it. Its Calvert's warning against Thatcherism - his vision of a world after 25 years of totalitariansim rule. Too much for the fans to take on board.
But the more I listen to it, the more convinced I am that its Hawkwinds most musical and best work.
Nowadays Calvert is a side note in Hawkwind history, with Brock sometimes reprising one or two of his tunes in live concert. I often wonder what Captain Calvert would have achieved further if he'd lived.

External Link/Members Only

Calvert was an interesting character. Maybe because he was a loony. The interesting people usually are. 

[stampjones]

I am on a different page to you regarding Floyd, Piper is Barretts self indulgent drivel in the main, nursery rhyme crap to my ears, him taking a trip too far was very sad for him, but great for Waters as he later proved. Meddle is a great album as is Obscured By Clouds in my book. I like The Wall, then they finished off with The Final Cut, all Waters, the best "Floyd album for me, and The Division Bell, mainly all Gilmore, my second fave Floyd album.

Wow - I thought I was the only person ever who thought Final Cut was their best album 

[NIK]

Wow - I thought I was the only person ever who thought Final Cut was their best album 

Roger Waters was a very interesting songwriter & lyricist (better than Gilmour) but he couldn’t sing for shit. He would either speak, whisper or shout.

[stampjones]

Roger Waters was a very interesting songwriter & lyricist (better than Gilmour) but he couldn’t sing for shit. He would either speak, whisper or shout.

Yeah I agree with all that but for some reason it just works on that album

[wombat42]

Calvert was an interesting character. Maybe because he was a loony. The interesting people usually are. 

Bipolar disorder.

[smiths]

Wow - I thought I was the only person ever who thought Final Cut was their best album 

Its been my fave Floyd album for sometime now, of course its really a Waters solo album in all but name, its a very personal to him album about his father who died in WW2. Waters decided to use the Falklands War instead as that was current at the time.

As I have said before Waters is a VERY damaged man who cant get over losing his father and his songs are him lashing out in anger. That anger is what has inspired him to write some great songs over the years. But it was his Floyd years where he was at his best.

Just behind is The Division Bell which is a great album, mainly by Gilmore, then its Dark Side, WYWH, The Wall, Meddle and Obscured By Clouds.

[The Film Director]

Underated albums

Killer - Alice Cooper (the group, not the person) - flat our rock with epic songs like Dead Babies, Halo of flies & Desperado

Love it to death - Group as above - Garage rock bordering on prog in some cases (The Ballad of Dwight Frye), the classic "I'm Eighteen" breakthrough single.

Overrated
Anything Alice Cooper (the person, not the band) has done since they split up in 1974/1975 - I guess "welcome to my nightmare" was ok in parts

Pretty much spot on IMHO.

I would though just add the album School's Out.  I'm not that big a fan of the title song and single, but there is some great, actually sophisticated, songwriting elsewhere (plus Bob Ezrin's 'grand' production) - Luney Tune, Blue Turk, Public Animal, Alma Mater, etc.  Plus the band were one of the 'coolest' and underrated musically around!

External Link/Members Only

This video has to be seen to be believed.

[The Film Director]

Pretty much spot on IMHO.

I would though just add the album School's Out.  I'm not that big a fan of the title song and single, but there is some great, actually sophisticated, songwriting elsewhere (plus Bob Ezrin's 'grand' production) - Luney Tune, Blue Turk, Public Animal, Alma Mater, etc.  Plus the band were one of the 'coolest' and underrated musically around!

External Link/Members Only

This video has to be seen to be believed.

... oh and legend has it that this was the song that Johnny Rotten auditioned for Malcolm McLaren to get the 'job' in the Sex Pistols.

[NIK]

Pretty much spot on IMHO.

I would though just add the album School's Out.  I'm not that big a fan of the title song and single, but there is some great, actually sophisticated, songwriting elsewhere (plus Bob Ezrin's 'grand' production) - Luney Tune, Blue Turk, Public Animal, Alma Mater, etc.  Plus the band were one of the 'coolest' and underrated musically around!

External Link/Members Only

This video has to be seen to be believed.

When I think back the Alice Cooper band were actually my favourite American band from that period 72/3 when I was first getting into music.
My other fave American bands - The Doors, Velvet Underground, Byrds, CCR had all broken up or were in the process of doing so, or in the case of The Beach Boys were lying fallow, consequently I didn’t get into any of them until a little later. At the time apart from AC all my other faves were British.  I hadn’t really noticed that before.

[FLYING BLUE]

Hawklords - 25 Years On

When Hawkwind released this back in 1977 it was universally vilified - probably because it was too musical. Essentially a .Bob Calvert solo project bordering on poetry set to new wave, the regular fans hated it. Its Calvert's warning against Thatcherism - his vision of a world after 25 years of totalitarian rule. Too much for the fans to take on board.
But the more I listen to it, the more convinced I am that its Hawkwinds most musical and best work.
Nowadays Calvert is a side note in Hawkwind history, with Brock sometimes reprising one or two of his tunes in live concert. I often wonder what Captain Calvert would have achieved further if he'd lived.

External Link/Members Only

Lemmy has done well for himself after getting fired from Hawkwind all those years ago......

[FLYING BLUE]

... oh and legend has it that this was the song that Johnny Rotten auditioned for Malcolm McLaren to get the 'job' in the Sex Pistols.

This is a fact, stated many times by Lydon in interviews and included in his autobiography

[FLYING BLUE]

Pretty much spot on IMHO.

  Blue Turk, Public Animal, Alma Mater, etc.  Plus the band were one of the 'coolest' and underrated musically around!

External Link/Members Only

This video has to be seen to be believed.

Blue Turk is amazing, almost freeflow improvised lead guitar, almost jazzy in parts - Buxton said he was "allowed" by Ezrin to "just go with the feel of it" - I hear major scales over minor chords & vice versa - very laid back and cool IMHO

[Ali Katt]

... oh and legend has it that this was the song that Johnny Rotten auditioned for Malcolm McLaren to get the 'job' in the Sex Pistols.

Speaking of which never mind the bollocks is overrated, but it's importance cannot be overstated. Sad that the recordings sound like shit as the masters are said to be lost, I think the "remastered" is taken from the same source as Japanese or USA first release vinyl.

[King Nuts]

When I think back the Alice Cooper band were actually my favourite American band from that period 72/3 when I was first getting into music.
My other fave American bands - The Doors, Velvet Underground, Byrds, CCR had all broken up or were in the process of doing so, or in the case of The Beach Boys were lying fallow, consequently I didn’t get into any of them until a little later. At the time apart from AC all my other faves were British.  I hadn’t really noticed that before.

Tallking of Alice.......  External Link/Members Only

They don't make videos like that any more. Beer drinking, smoking, piles of cash, a chimpanzee lighting everyone's cigarettes.

Fucking great.

[FLYING BLUE]

Tallking of Alice.......  External Link/Members Only

They don't make videos like that any more. Beer drinking, smoking, piles of cash, a chimpanzee lighting everyone's cigarettes.

Fucking great.

Always loved this - note the bit, 23 seconds into the video where Alice smacks Manager, Shep Gordon right in the kisser (by accident)

[RLondon99]

Its been my fave Floyd album for sometime now, of course its really a Waters solo album in all but name, its a very personal to him album about his father who died in WW2. Waters decided to use the Falklands War instead as that was current at the time.

As I have said before Waters is a VERY damaged man who cant get over losing his father and his songs are him lashing out in anger. That anger is what has inspired him to write some great songs over the years. But it was his Floyd years where he was at his best.

Just behind is The Division Bell which is a great album, mainly by Gilmore, then its Dark Side, WYWH, The Wall, Meddle and Obscured By Clouds.

Dark Side was so popular it became the kind of cliche that makes you feel embarrassment even being seen near it. Yet it is a truly magnificent album, Money the only weak song. The quality of the analogue Abbey Road recording is breathtaking, and Gilmour's guitar on Any Colour is magic.

[King Nuts]

Always loved this - note the bit, 23 seconds into the video where Alice smacks Manager, Shep Gordon right in the kisser (by accident)

Didn't notice that before.

There's also a bit at 1' 02" where a woman comes up to him who loooks a bit like a young Hillary Clinton.

[The Film Director]

When I think back the Alice Cooper band were actually my favourite American band from that period 72/3 when I was first getting into music.
My other fave American bands - The Doors, Velvet Underground, Byrds, CCR had all broken up or were in the process of doing so, or in the case of The Beach Boys were lying fallow, consequently I didn’t get into any of them until a little later. At the time apart from AC all my other faves were British.  I hadn’t really noticed that before.

Starting to get a bit worried about the taste we have in common, best to leave politics aside IMHO ( )

These bands are two of my favourites, the Velvets, in particular - just got an 'awesome' (fuck I hate that word) T-shirt with that pic of the original band (except for Maureen Tucker) wearing shades .... T-shirt sits nicely alongside those I have with the Unknown Pleasures cover and The Ramones (still a teenager at heart). 

[The Film Director]

Speaking of which never mind the bollocks is overrated, but it's importance cannot be overstated. Sad that the recordings sound like shit as the masters are said to be lost, I think the "remastered" is taken from the same source as Japanese or USA first release vinyl.

Personally, I wouldn't say it is overrated, it's less adventurous musically than some stuff to come out of punk, but the first three singles (Anarchy, God Save The Queen and Pretty Vacant) are all classic songs from any genre, IMO.

[Ali Katt]

Personally, I wouldn't say it is overrated, it's less adventurous musically than some stuff to come out of punk, but the first three singles (Anarchy, God Save The Queen and Pretty Vacant) are all classic songs from any genre, IMO.

Yes and no. Apart from Holidays in the Sun and Submission it just seems difficult to listen to, perhaps because it's overplayed and become synonymous with punk. You know how when you see a film set in the 60s they always play White Rabbit or Jimi's version of All Along the Watchtower? It's become a bit like that where it is shorthand for rebellion which became packaged and sold, sort of like it became the thing it wasn't supposed to be. I know we can argue they were manufactured by McLaren which I don't think is technically true, I just think he wanted his cut and saw it as easy money, which he was right about. That's from an idealised cultural view. Musically, I just don't think it is that good; a lot of albums from that time sound awful now as well The Slits, Crass, Anti Nowhere League. I think the new wave stuff hold up way better like Wire, Joy Division etc.

[RLondon99]

You know how when you see a film set in the 60s they always play White Rabbit or Jimi's version of All Along the Watchtower?

External Link/Members Only

[King Nuts]

a lot of albums from that time sound awful now as well The Slits, Crass, Anti Nowhere League. I think the new wave stuff hold up way better like Wire, Joy Division etc.

Crass. Now you're talking! External Link/Members Only

Thinking back at that time, there were a lot of really weird acts out there. Throbbing Gristle was one. There was some right borderline stuff on some of their records. Monte Cazazza was another one. Surgical Penis Klinik too.

I'm out of the loop now, but are there any acts out there these days that are as 'challenging' to listen to as the aforementioned?

[The Film Director]

Yes and no. Apart from Holidays in the Sun and Submission it just seems difficult to listen to, perhaps because it's overplayed and become synonymous with punk. You know how when you see a film set in the 60s they always play White Rabbit or Jimi's version of All Along the Watchtower? It's become a bit like that where it is shorthand for rebellion which became packaged and sold, sort of like it became the thing it wasn't supposed to be. I know we can argue they were manufactured by McLaren which I don't think is technically true, I just think he wanted his cut and saw it as easy money, which he was right about. That's from an idealised cultural view. Musically, I just don't think it is that good; a lot of albums from that time sound awful now as well The Slits, Crass, Anti Nowhere League. I think the new wave stuff hold up way better like Wire, Joy Division etc.

YMMV obviously but I don't think songs like Liar, No Feelings and EMI are really that difficult, though as I said I would agree that musically they weren't that adventurous.  Still a great listen for me, though.  The Slits had a problem in that they could never really 'play' their instruments, though of course they weren't alone in that, obviously!  The Raincoats, likewise, but both bands were (so some say  ) quite adventurous musically.

Agree though that both Wire and Joy Division were superior to the majority of the 'straight punk' brigade.  Wire are still going now, of course, and are still decent though not with quite the level of inspiration as their first few albums - Pink Flag is a masterpiece IMO and Chairs Missing is also great.

[The Film Director]

Surgical Penis Klinik too.

Are you sure you're not making that up. 

As for new bands, nothing quite as far out there as the aforementioned ones, though each of Cabbage and Fat White Family can be a bit near the edge.  I only 'keep up' through listening to Marc Riley on 6 Music.