Author Topic: Human Trafficking  (Read 12359 times)

Offline papak

So bit of a dark subject and I appreciate if it's not something anyone wants to discuss/it's not appropriate for the site. But one thing that worries me and makes me second guess doing any punting is the thought that these girls have been trafficked here. A lot of the Romanian/Polish girls that get reviewed as being "not interested"/"didn't make any effort" here, it really sounds like they don't want to escort. Which begs the question, why are they doing it? And is this 100% their choice?

Aside from going to well reviewed British women, are there any other ways to make sure you're not helping out the seedy underworld of the escorting industry?

I ask because a lot of the EE girls really fit into my interests, but I don't want to fund the slave trade.

Offline NervousJ

Best thing to do is walk away !!!

Or just go to the tried and tested girls that are positively reviewed on here.

Obviously it goes on, I guess it just needs reporting if it’s 100% obvious. Must admit, can’t say I’ve ever been in that situation and if I was, I’d walk away and report it !!!

Offline winkywanky

There is always an increased risk of that with the foreign girls of course.

There are (few, admittedly) Roms and others who are independent, doing it of their own free will and good SPs. They tend not to move around like the pimped or trafficked girls do and they have good feedback on here as well as on AW (the latter being very unreliable). 

All you can really do is look for the signs and do your due diligence.

Offline STEVO 69

I think of the Chinese Massage places, where if you look in the adds in Gumtree and Viva Street, sometimes 20+ shops are advertised all over the country by one owner. All the girls moved after two weeks at one place to another.

Offline papak

Cheers for the response guys! Sounds like it's likely the EE girls with low AW feedback that appear in Notts then in Leicester a week later and then in other parts of the country are likely part of the trafficking system. Sad to see, I'll make sure to avoid them as enticing as their profiles, pics and prices may be.

Offline houseboot

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I think of the Chinese Massage places, where if you look in the adds in Gumtree and Viva Street, sometimes 20+ shops are advertised all over the country by one owner. All the girls moved after two weeks at one place to another.

Wrong.

They are not one owner.

The name(s) you see on the adverts is just a computer savvy person who posts adverts on behalf of a multitude of owners who may own 1 - 5 shops each.

They each have their own girls who may rotate around the shops owned by that person.

If you do your research properly you'll soon work out which shops are in fact "linked".
« Last Edit: July 05, 2019, 10:43:27 pm by houseboot »

Offline scutty brown

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Wrong.

They are not one owner.

The name(s) you see on the adverts is just a computer savvy person who posts adverts on behalf of a multitude of owners who may own 1 - 5 shops each.

They each have their own girls who may rotate around the shops owned by that person.

If you do your research properly you'll soon work out which shops are in fact "linked".

But its fair to say the massive expansion in Chinese massage parlours in the last two years have been largely financed by organised crime gangs

Offline scutty brown

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papak

read these websites
then ask again if you need clarification

External Link/Members Only
External Link/Members Only

you may find different indicators on USA sites, but they tend to be more worried about underage girls than foreign girls: different priorities

Offline NickyBobby

Good links, I was going to mention if she has limited clothing or personal affects in the flat then that can be an indicator

Offline papak

papak

read these websites
then ask again if you need clarification

External Link/Members Only
External Link/Members Only

you may find different indicators on USA sites, but they tend to be more worried about underage girls than foreign girls: different priorities

Thanks for that Scutty! Escorting/prostitution really needs to be legalised/regulated so that it can be safer for those that work. Just like drugs, it doesn't matter how many laws you make to "stop it", people will always want what they want. Best to make sure these things are done in a safe way.

Offline scutty brown

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Thanks for that Scutty! Escorting/prostitution really needs to be legalised/regulated so that it can be safer for those that work. Just like drugs, it doesn't matter how many laws you make to "stop it", people will always want what they want. Best to make sure these things are done in a safe way.

regulation won't make the slightest difference.
What is required is better application of existing laws, better border controls, better training in recognition skills for police and other authorities, and most importantly for punters to learn to recognise sexual exploitation and act when seen.

Offline Picti

So bit of a dark subject and I appreciate if it's not something anyone wants to discuss/it's not appropriate for the site. But one thing that worries me and makes me second guess doing any punting is the thought that these girls have been trafficked here. A lot of the Romanian/Polish girls that get reviewed as being "not interested"/"didn't make any effort" here, it really sounds like they don't want to escort. Which begs the question, why are they doing it? And is this 100% their choice?

Aside from going to well reviewed British women, are there any other ways to make sure you're not helping out the seedy underworld of the escorting industry?

I ask because a lot of the EE girls really fit into my interests, but I don't want to fund the slave trade.

It's a subject that we should all be interested in and willing to discuss. The idea of receiving sexual services from someone trafficked and coerced is horrific, and of course illegal and subject to criminal prosecution.

It's not infallible, but as buyers of sexual services we can (individually and collectively) exercise consideration and caution through all stages of the process from initial research, to contact / communication, to initial presentation and interaction at the meeting if it gets that far. If there's any significant doubt or concern then I wouldn't proceed, and if there's significant cause for concern I'd report it to the Police.

Your post also suggests a few other issues that you may want to consider and resolve.

For example, I'd differentiate volition (action based on personal determination) from choice (taking the preferred option from a range of alternatives). Furthermore, sex work is unregulated and beyond trafficking there can be dubious characters around. You can only try to punt as "ethically" as possible.

Offline scutty brown

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It's a subject that we should all be interested in and willing to discuss. The idea of receiving sexual services from someone trafficked and coerced is horrific, and of course illegal and subject to criminal prosecution.

It's not infallible, but as buyers of sexual services we can (individually and collectively) exercise consideration and caution through all stages of the process from initial research, to contact / communication, to initial presentation and interaction at the meeting if it gets that far. If there's any significant doubt or concern then I wouldn't proceed, and if there's significant cause for concern I'd report it to the Police.

Your post also suggests a few other issues that you may want to consider and resolve.

For example, I'd differentiate volition (action based on personal determination) from choice (taking the preferred option from a range of alternatives). Furthermore, sex work is unregulated and beyond trafficking there can be dubious characters around. You can only try to punt as "ethically" as possible.

I'd say if there's ANY cause for concern call the police: if you're wrong theres no harm done, if you're right you've changed someones life.

Offline Picti

I'd say if there's ANY cause for concern call the police: if you're wrong theres no harm done, if you're right you've changed someones life.

I respect that as your view but I'd have a threshold in mind, because if you're wrong then the Police would've visited her place of work with potential effect on her income.

Within that threshold I'd contact the Police if I had any concerns.

Offline l1mpd1ck

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You can only try to punt as "ethically" as possible.
...perhaps we need bio-degradable condoms as well

Offline Picti

...perhaps we need bio-degradable condoms as well

Yeah all that single use "plastic"  :D Anyway, back to the serious issue.

Offline Formicahunt

The place under Pete's Pizza and the one next to the betting shop on London Rd I  Leicester always seemed suspect but they're gone now. The sad reality of trafficked girls in the UK are that they don't always  tend to advertise openly on websites but are part of a closed group where a pimp will have regulars and new guys find out through word of mouth, the girls are moved around and swapped or sold by other pimps to keep the girls from becoming familiar with a guy and getting help. I was told a story a few years back by a police friend that they shut down 5 cannabis factories in Northampton and the women running them had all been brought over as WG's but we're sold off when they got too old.

It's dark and something we need to be aware of but chances are if you're using VS or AW you're unlikely to see a trafficked girl in the traditional sense.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2019, 01:56:17 pm by Formicahunt »

Offline scutty brown

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................It's dark and something we need to be aware of but chances are if you're using VS or AW you're unlikely to see a trafficked girl in the traditional sense.

Sadly thats not true
A high proportion of the foreign girls on both have been trafficked / forced / exploited in some way. VS now seems to be worse than AW since the verification changes a year or so ago, but both still are a problem.
To put it in context, this morning VS listed 208 escort profiles for Lancashire. If the pattern follows past checks, that will equate to around 50-60 trafficked or otherwise controlled women. It doesn't include the girls listed under "massage" or "adult contacts" which could easily add another 20. You could probably add another 20 from AW as well...........so you have 90-100 before you start listing the hidden girls you describe

niftyfiftydave

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I respect that as your view but I'd have a threshold in mind, because if you're wrong then the Police would've visited her place of work with potential effect on her income.

Within that threshold I'd contact the Police if I had any concerns.

I don,t understand the threshold reasoning, it is suspected or not, applying made up thresholds is only for the punter to make excuses not to act.

What are you going to do, write things down and score them? Absolute bollox.

 A visit from plod might put the one punter who happened to be booked that hour off his stride, no one else will ever know, UNLESS THE CALL WAS A CORRECT CALL.

Offline smiths

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In punting what a punter has is his best judgement, its punting with virtual or complete strangers whose personal life you aren't privy to in many cases. I could well of unknowingly punted with a trafficked and/or coerced/forced woman but I haven't knowingly.

If I thought a woman was in that terrible scenario I would call Crimestoppers anonymously and might also ring the police from a phone box again anonymously.

niftyfiftydave

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It's dark and something we need to be aware of but chances are if you're using VS or AW you're unlikely to see a trafficked girl in the traditional sense.

Sorry don,t know how to quote just 1 line. but this line has been quoted before.

And this line is absolute bollox. Been in this game a long long time, Thought i knew how to pick out the Indies,always thought i had succeeded, but a rare 2nd visit to one i absolutely thought was indie through a big spanner in the works.

You really don,t want to know the full story, but if you do it,s all here somewhere, well not all the gruesome details but enough to make you think twice.

Still struggling to get my head round punting.

Offline scutty brown

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I don,t understand the threshold reasoning, it is suspected or not, applying made up thresholds is only for the punter to make excuses not to act.

What are you going to do, write things down and score them? Absolute bollox.

 A visit from plod might put the one punter who happened to be booked that hour off his stride, no one else will ever know, UNLESS THE CALL WAS A CORRECT CALL.

Dave's right
There is no downside to making the call, but you may change a life if you're right.
There is either suspicion, or there is not. If there is then make the call.

Offline Global_Punter


Thanks for that Scutty! Escorting/prostitution really needs to be legalised/regulated so that it can be safer for those that work. Just like drugs, it doesn't matter how many laws you make to "stop it", people will always want what they want. Best to make sure these things are done in a safe way.


@papak YES & NO regulation help's create a safer working environment for the girls but countries like the Netherlands and Germany have still showed that regulation alone cant stop trafficking - it only creates a safer working environment for the girls that really want to be independent.

     

Offline Picti

I don,t understand the threshold reasoning, it is suspected or not, applying made up thresholds is only for the punter to make excuses not to act.

What are you going to do, write things down and score them? Absolute bollox.

 A visit from plod might put the one punter who happened to be booked that hour off his stride, no one else will ever know, UNLESS THE CALL WAS A CORRECT CALL.

Maybe I'm not expressing it sufficiently well, but if I had concerns based on a woman's presentation I'd think about the possible reasons (trafficking isn't the sole possibility). If I concluded that it was more likely to be trafficking or any form of coercion then I'd report.

No-one else would know unless he reviewed. No-one else would know unless her neighbours noticed the Police visit... Fancy visiting where the Police have been or where the neighbours are now curious?

It's a serious issue and I take it seriously, in both directions.

niftyfiftydave

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Maybe I'm not expressing it sufficiently well, but if I had concerns based on a woman's presentation I'd think about the possible reasons (trafficking isn't the sole possibility). If I concluded that it was more likely to be trafficking or any form of coercion then I'd report.

No-one else would know unless he reviewed. No-one else would know unless her neighbours noticed the Police visit... Fancy visiting where the Police have been or where the neighbours are now curious?

It's a serious issue and I take it seriously, in both directions.

And you think if the neighbours see a plain clothes Police officer, they do turn up that way so as not to freak the girl or warn the pimps, they would not notice a different man turning up on the hour every hour for 12 plus hours a day lol.

Your reasoning is very simplistic, you really think neighbours don,t know why you are there lol, some probably film you arriving and leaving.

Offline scutty brown

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Something else to remember: the police can only act on the intelligence they are given and there are only two groups who can do that.
Nosy neighbours can give a heads-up, but only us punters can actually tell the police whats going on in a house. We're the only ones who see the girls, see their living conditions, talk to them.
If when you see a problem you don't act, remember - no-one else can or will. You're the only chance to get her out, the next punter may  be too late

Offline Picti

And you think if the neighbours see a plain clothes Police officer, they do turn up that way so as not to freak the girl or warn the pimps, they would not notice a different man turning up on the hour every hour for 12 plus hours a day lol.

Your reasoning is very simplistic, you really think neighbours don,t know why you are there lol, some probably film you arriving and leaving.

What specific factors or signs would trigger you to contact the Police and report suspected trafficking?

Offline scutty brown

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What specific factors or signs would trigger you to contact the Police and report suspected trafficking?

have you read the links I posted in #7?

Offline cunningman

have you read the links I posted in #7?

I have but its unclear how to make the call.

 - Be moved between brothels, sometimes from city to city

OK well that would apply to a lot of Roms and Chinese - but we we going to think all tourers are in this position?  I've spoken to a couple of Thai and Chinese MILFs and they seemed to be using a service rather than being scheduled - quite happy to chat about where they'd been and were looking to go.

 - Sleeping on work premises

I'd rather assumed that the majority where there's a couple of girls working a reasonable flat for a few months actually do sleep there, there's usual a fair amount of personal stuff. The Brazilians near Barbican certainly did. OTOH I know Camilla works in East London and commutes from West to 'her office' - its quite spartan.

 - Display a limited amount of clothing, of which a large proportion is sexual

Even when I've visited a MILF in her own home, I've not generally seen anything other than sexy stuff that comes off.

 - Have money for their services provided collected by another person

Well, quite often there is clearly someone else in a flat and they stash the money in the kitchen with the others.  The only time I've heard raised voices though was a Polish lass cussing a bloke she then described as a useless boyfriend.  And I think a couple of Hungarian MILFs have clearly had a house-husband in tow.

I would be hard pressed to make the call unless they were really signalling it or Sergei was pushing the lass into the room.

I don't use outcall, so the drop off is hard to understand.  But a MILF was describing how the business work with a dedicated driver and security arrangements, and it would be hard to tell the difference unless its clear the girls wants to do a runner.

Its a worry.  The trouble is that some of the things that look like signs are also things the girls sign up to for security or administrative convenience.

Offline WASA38

Perhaps there is a case for the punter carrying a card with an appropriate question, in Romanian* asking the girl if she is doing sex work voluntarily and inviting her to tick a box if not The printed message also explaining that a 'no' tick would lead to a police alert and her release from her situation. Not sure whom one would ask to compose/translate such a message !

Just a fantasy on my part I guess. It also leads me to wonder whether pimps ever set up CCTV or a microphone to monitor their victim's behaviour .

* or Polish, Hungarian, Mandarin etc as appropriate.

Offline scutty brown

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I have but its unclear how to make the call.

 - Be moved between brothels, sometimes from city to city

OK well that would apply to a lot of Roms and Chinese - but we we going to think all tourers are in this position?  I've spoken to a couple of Thai and Chinese MILFs and they seemed to be using a service rather than being scheduled - quite happy to chat about where they'd been and were looking to go.

 - Sleeping on work premises

I'd rather assumed that the majority where there's a couple of girls working a reasonable flat for a few months actually do sleep there, there's usual a fair amount of personal stuff. The Brazilians near Barbican certainly did. OTOH I know Camilla works in East London and commutes from West to 'her office' - its quite spartan.

 - Display a limited amount of clothing, of which a large proportion is sexual

Even when I've visited a MILF in her own home, I've not generally seen anything other than sexy stuff that comes off.

 - Have money for their services provided collected by another person

Well, quite often there is clearly someone else in a flat and they stash the money in the kitchen with the others.  The only time I've heard raised voices though was a Polish lass cussing a bloke she then described as a useless boyfriend.  And I think a couple of Hungarian MILFs have clearly had a house-husband in tow.

I would be hard pressed to make the call unless they were really signalling it or Sergei was pushing the lass into the room.

I don't use outcall, so the drop off is hard to understand.  But a MILF was describing how the business work with a dedicated driver and security arrangements, and it would be hard to tell the difference unless its clear the girls wants to do a runner.

Its a worry.  The trouble is that some of the things that look like signs are also things the girls sign up to for security or administrative convenience.

OK I'll try to put some flesh on the bones

Travel
With EE girls what you are looking for are girls with no obvious means of transport, who are moving location frequently. Usually a courier comes to pick them up with no prior notice and takes them to the next location. The girls usually won't know where they've been or when or where they're going. Frequently can mean anything between a couple of days to a couple of weeks. But don't assume static girls are OK, some teams will stay until the utility bills arrive and then jump ship every three or four months.
Chinese girls are less obvious, they're often sent out  by train from London on 1-2 week shifts, sometimes unsupervised during the journey. They're held in check by the lack of language, threats to themselves and family, and debt bondage. And often they don't realise they're being exploited. Age comes into it as well -the ones at risk are mainly in the 18-28 age range.

Sleeping
This ones hard to pick up on.............often there is a separate house acting as the pimps residence which the girls use for sleeping, sometimes complete with a training / breaking in room where the girls are raped and indoctrinated into the trade. You're most likely to find this where EE girls work from long-established houses, where the house remains in use but the girls change. Also where EE girls are hired out to parlours for the day: they get dropped off in the morning, collected next morning and the pimp pockets the price for renting her out.
However a lot of EE girls are handled differently: those in short-term accomodation in hotels or serviced apartments will eat sleep and fuck in the same room.

Limited clothing
Most obvious in hotels or short term lets where the girl is living from a suitcase and may well have only the knickers she greets you in..........often what little clothing she has is totally impractical and is often thin £2 leggings and such like from the market. You can see whats strewn on the floor or in open suitcases
Sometimes clothes are removed from a girls reach to prevent her escaping.......I've seen this with chinese girls where the only clothes in the flat were lace bodysuits

Money collection
Sometimes theres a second person who grabs the money off you before the working girl has a chance to touch it.......indicates she's not trusted.

There are other signs as well
does the girl look healthy, well fed?
whats the decor of the building? Is it a shithole, does the bath and toilet work?
are there any toiletries in the bathroom? how many razors? how many men's razors?
whats the state of the kitchen, is there any food in the house or is she living on pot noodles supplied by the pimp?
does she know what town she's in, or what the last town was, or the next one?
whats  her hygeine like?
how does she appear mentally? depressed? sad? brainwashed?
does she seem scared?

none of these things on their own can conclusively prove anything, but as a mental checklist they help to give a feeling as to whether a girl is at risk.
But remember - if you have the slightest suspicion, make the call

Offline Tricky Dickie

I'd say if there's ANY cause for concern call the police: if you're wrong theres no harm done, if you're right you've changed someones life.

But here’s the thing. Sure you’ve made the call and you’re perhaps doing the girl a favour. But in the meantime you’ve fucked a girl who’s potentially trafficked, potentially against her will. Your ethical position isn’t great. The best you're saying is “maybe I’ll be the last guy she has to fuck against her will.”

Surely, ethically, the message is walk away and then make the call.

Offline scutty brown

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Perhaps there is a case for the punter carrying a card with an appropriate question, in Romanian* asking the girl if she is doing sex work voluntarily and inviting her to tick a box if not The printed message also explaining that a 'no' tick would lead to a police alert and her release from her situation. Not sure whom one would ask to compose/translate such a message !

Just a fantasy on my part I guess. It also leads me to wonder whether pimps ever set up CCTV or a microphone to monitor their victim's behaviour .

* or Polish, Hungarian, Mandarin etc as appropriate.

The cards a nice idea, but puts you in a bad position if things go wrong and the pimp catches you with them, you could get a kicking or worse.

As for the microphones, I believe Dave has experienced that, and I've found cameras in a brothel in Plymouth

niftyfiftydave

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Perhaps there is a case for the punter carrying a card with an appropriate question, in Romanian* asking the girl if she is doing sex work voluntarily and inviting her to tick a box if not The printed message also explaining that a 'no' tick would lead to a police alert and her release from her situation. Not sure whom one would ask to compose/translate such a message !

Just a fantasy on my part I guess. It also leads me to wonder whether pimps ever set up CCTV or a microphone to monitor their victim's behaviour .

* or Polish, Hungarian, Mandarin etc as appropriate.

The Answer to your cctv question is yes they do, how i was fooled, luckily for her no microphone,or that is what she thought, though i am not so sure and was very careful talking to her, . And the reason i can,t get my head around going for a punt, i have once since but only with a very well reviewed girl but i was still on edge and looking for things that were probably not there.

A bit more flesh on the bone, She was not trafficked, Left a good job in the Uk because her long relationship broke up and they worked same place, she was his line manager, got promoted over him, made things difficult.
Came to London, used websites for people from her country to look for work, was promised work and handed documents over thinking they were required for the job.
That was her downfall, and being very naive did not help.
There was no trafficking involved, she had been here years, but fell into the wrong hands in her own people who she trusted most. That is how easy it is if you put money before people and are able to rape, beat and feed drugs to own one of your own.

Earlier it was stated that someone may have punted a pimped girl but not knowingly, if i got caught with 42 years at the game, Dating, going on holiday,living with, and paying far more WG,s than i care to remember you can be sure you have too.
I got caught out since joining ukp, it did not help me avoid it though the amount of this type of stuff that has come up here recently was not so evident when i joined. It has without doubt becoming far more evident and one can only assume a bigger problem in the last year or so.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2019, 07:11:15 pm by niftyfiftydave »

Offline scutty brown

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But here’s the thing. Sure you’ve made the call and you’re perhaps doing the girl a favour. But in the meantime you’ve fucked a girl who’s potentially trafficked, potentially against her will. Your ethical position isn’t great. The best you're saying is “maybe I’ll be the last guy she has to fuck against her will.”

Surely, ethically, the message is walk away and then make the call.

Correct
Legally once you have the suspicion you must walk away. But that suspicion may not arise until its too late, in which case you have to get the record of what happened straight in your head. You CANNOT suspect and then carry on, to do so puts yourself at risk

niftyfiftydave

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But here’s the thing. Sure you’ve made the call and you’re perhaps doing the girl a favour. But in the meantime you’ve fucked a girl who’s potentially trafficked, potentially against her will. Your ethical position isn’t great. The best you're saying is “maybe I’ll be the last guy she has to fuck against her will.”

Surely, ethically, the message is walk away and then make the call.

There is no perhaps about it, if she is in strife you have done her more than a favor, I was told i saved her life as she could only see one way out.

With regards to fucking a girl against her will, shit happens, i already had on a previous visit, went through the motions again even though i wanted to walk. Since she has told me if i walked she was going to get fucked anyway and you can work that out in your own head.

So i am guilty of doing just that but she does not hold it against me and she trusted me to try and get her out of a hole. I didn,t plod did, and i did it directly with plod, because it was a big leap of faith to trust them, had my run ins with them over the years and lets just say come across a few wrong uns., i was not going to trust them through a charity or crime stoppers,

Offline Global_Punter

Interesting thread don't forget we have lover boy pimps, more common among Romanians they start off by being the girls boyfriend then trick them into the trade - some become long term boyfriends or end up marrying the SP.

Some get sold on & their families or little babies threatened with harm, there's lots of tricks.

Most Romanian girls are happy to be trafficked than live on less than € 400 a month - once they taste the champagne lifestyle, tattoos and designers cloths..     

 

 
« Last Edit: July 07, 2019, 07:45:29 pm by Global_Punter »

Offline scutty brown

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......Most Romanian girls are happy to be trafficked than live on less than € 400 a month - once they taste the champagne lifestyle, tattoos and designers cloths..     

 

Thats the kind of fake belief that leaves so many of these girls trapped
Yes some are in it willingly, but they're a minority. Most are forced, one way or the other

Online Strawberry

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Correct
Legally once you have the suspicion you must walk away. But that suspicion may not arise until its too late, in which case you have to get the record of what happened straight in your head. You CANNOT suspect and then carry on, to do so puts yourself at risk

Am I correct in thinking it's a strict liability offence, which means it's 'up to you to know'?

Offline scutty brown

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Am I correct in thinking it's a strict liability offence, which means it's 'up to you to know'?

Yes, you are correct, which is why if you think there's something wrong, you need to get out quickly.

Offline mradventures

if she understands english you could whisper in her ear, something like squeeze my arm if you need help

or use some app on phone to comunicate non verbally

Offline Global_Punter


if she understands english you could whisper in her ear, something like squeeze my arm if you need help

or use some app on phone to comunicate non verbally


Haha, I vote for this option  :hi:

Offline scutty brown

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if she understands english you could whisper in her ear, something like squeeze my arm if you need help

or use some app on phone to comunicate non verbally

Its safer for all concerned if the girl never knows who pulled the plug...........the risk if you're identified is too high.
If you suspect, just leave and report

Offline mradventures

Its safer for all concerned if the girl never knows who pulled the plug...........the risk if you're identified is too high.
If you suspect, just leave and report

yeah, didnt think about that :x

Offline smiths

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Am I correct in thinking it's a strict liability offence, which means it's 'up to you to know'?

Indeed it is which is why reporting it anonymously is the wise thing to do in my view.

So a punter reporting suspected trafficking and/or coercion/force if he thinks a woman is subject to that is the best course of action in my book and where his responsibility ends. However, it might not be good for the woman reported in the end. What i mean by that is the woman gets rescued and if not a UK citizen may get deported to her home country straight back in to the arms of her traffickers who are very angry with her and/or her family. She may of been on a bond to come here for example and they want what they see as their money back off her or her family. Hopefully this doesn't happen in most cases but who knows for sure how often it may happen sadly.

None of this means a punter should do nothing in case the above occurs as it may not happen and he can only go on what he thinks he knows at the time he reports the matter, he cant second guess what might happen in the future.

Offline scutty brown

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Indeed it is which is why reporting it anonymously is the wise thing to do in my view.

So a punter reporting suspected trafficking and/or coercion/force if he thinks a woman is subject to that is the best course of action in my book and where his responsibility ends. However, it might not be good for the woman reported in the end. What i mean by that is the woman gets rescued and if not a UK citizen may get deported to her home country straight back in to the arms of her traffickers who are very angry with her and/or her family. She may of been on a bond to come here for example and they want what they see as their money back off her or her family. Hopefully this doesn't happen in most cases but who knows for sure how often it may happen sadly.

None of this means a punter should do nothing in case the above occurs as it may not happen and he can only go on what he thinks he knows at the time he reports the matter, he cant second guess what might happen in the future.

Its those kind of threats which keep the girls under control, especially the Chinese. You must not let such worries cloud your judgement: if you find a girl in trouble, make the call. Once she's out then other problems can be solved, but if she never gets out they can't.

Offline smiths

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Its those kind of threats which keep the girls under control, especially the Chinese. You must not let such worries cloud your judgement: if you find a girl in trouble, make the call. Once she's out then other problems can be solved, but if she never gets out they can't.

I agree with your sentiments, make the call.

Offline Jonestown

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Am I correct in thinking it's a strict liability offence, which means it's 'up to you to know'?

Yes, and you only have to have intent to have sex with the girl, not actually have it, so just making a booking and turning up leaves you liable. That’s why you have to report anonymously.

Offline scutty brown

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Yes, and you only have to have intent to have sex with the girl, not actually have it, so just making a booking and turning up leaves you liable. That’s why you have to report anonymously.

Where did you get that rubbish from? The police aren't a bunch of mind readers.
As for reporting anonymously, if you report in good faith and can demonstrate that you got out as soon as you realised something was wrong then I believe you have little to worry about. The police desperately need help over trafficking and modern slavery issues and they're unlikely to punish those that give information - as long as you do it honestly and in good faith

Offline smiths

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My advice is report to Crimestoppers and/or the police anonymously, giving your real name COULD drag you into a heap of shit dependent on the police involved.

The risk of giving my real name is far too high for my liking. They are used to anonymous tip-offs so its hardly unusual.