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Author Topic: Discussion programme about should paying for sex be made illegal?  (Read 6217 times)

Offline NIK

Did anyone see the discussion programme this morning on should paying for sex be made illegal?
I inadvertently caught it as I was looking for the Football League Show on catch up.
I only saw about ten minutes of it as I had to go out and the discussion had already started and I missed the end. Apart from Peter Hitchens I didn't know any of the other participants, but there was an ex prossy, some woman with a dog collar and another one who was wanting to criminalise it. There was also a bald bloke who I think was a punter. However the best speaker was a blonde woman wearing red who spoke a lot of common sense about how such a law would actually make things worse for sex workers.
As we all know!   :cool:
« Last Edit: March 11, 2014, 07:05:09 am by NIK »

Offline CatBBW

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I saw it. The ex sex worker ("Ruth") said that being a prostitute is "traumatic" (she made that point more than once). Some young-ish bloke said that making it illegal to pay for sex would mean that "agencies who care for their employees would become illegal" - too many inaccuracies for me to pay much attention to him. Was rather glad that most of the audience and guests were in agreement that making it illegal to pay for sex would endanger the women.

Many "statistics" were wheeled out, and I'm glad the one about "most WGs are trafficked" was debunked by the lady in red (none of the police raids on brothels found any illegall or trafficked workers, which is totally the opposite to what the government will tell us).

« Last Edit: February 23, 2014, 05:20:13 pm by CatBBW »

Offline smiths

I saw it. The ex sex worker ("Ruth") said that being a prostitute is "traumatic" (she made that point more than once). Some young-ish bloke said that making it illegal to pay for sex would mean that "agencies who care for their employees would become illegal" - too many inaccuracies for me to pay much attention to him. Was rather glad that most of the audience and guests were in agreement that making it illegal to pay for sex would endanger the women.

Many "statistics" were wheeled out, and I'm glad the one about "most WGs are trafficked" was debunked by the lady in red (none of the police raids on brothels found any illegall or trafficked workers, which is totally the opposite to what the government will tell us).

Indeed and what some police will say of course, plus obviously the antis and some of the media.

Prove by convicting evil scum that trafficking for sex against a womans free will is a widespread practice is my request. If its so widespread it cant be hard to prove it if the police then CPS have the evidence.

In reality its all about individual cases, there are sadly some trafficked and forced/coerced women but its never yet been proved its a widespread problem including when the police did Operations Pentameters 1 and 2 specifically looking for such woman.

Stats can and have been twisted by the antis like Harridan in the past, in her case she used guesswork as fact to help get her coercion law through in 2009 using a figure of 4000 trafficked for sex women, a figure never proved by arrests let alone convictions.

SirFrank

  • Guest
Didn't see it but as per above, making it illegal will simply send it underground. Far from protecting girls such action, however well intentioned, would be counter productive. These debates are generally ill informed. Like debates on lap dancing and glamour (topless) modelling, they are paternalistic and rarely incorporate balanced views from the 'boots on the ground'.

Forcing people in the sex trade is abhorrent but I'm sure any such moves would simply serve to further exploit such women

Falstaff

  • Guest

Many "statistics" were wheeled out, and I'm glad the one about "most WGs are trafficked" was debunked by the lady in red (none of the police raids on brothels found any illegall or trafficked workers, which is totally the opposite to what the government will tell us).

The lady is red is Dr Belinda Brooks-Gordon a respected academic who has been fighting the cause for years.

Offline 8a8ylon

What channel / time was it on?

vorian

  • Guest
The lady is red is Dr Belinda Brooks-Gordon a respected academic who has been fighting the cause for years.

Had a quick google of her and seems she does talk a lot of sense, here is a quick link to some points she raised about the Nordic model.

External Link/Members Only

LL

  • Guest
The lady is red is Dr Belinda Brooks-Gordon a respected academic who has been fighting the cause for years.
You know your stuff.  What was the show please and what channel was it on?  Maybe I can watch it on catch-up.  Cheers.

Rochdull lad

  • Guest
What channel / time was it on?

You know your stuff.  What was the show please and what channel was it on?  Maybe I can watch it on catch-up.  Cheers.

Come on, NIK; there's at least three of us waiting for your answer!!


Rochdull lad

  • Guest
Grateful for that, pacifist; thanks. 

LL

  • Guest
Thanks! Now I know I can easily watch it on iPlayer.
Shame I have to watch Nicky fucking Campbell though!  :D

Offline Bond

I hope that some posters on here realise that by passing certain comments on these public forums they are simply giving the prostitution haters more ammunition to use against us when the next criminalization attempt is made.

Offline NIK

I hope that some posters on here realise that by passing certain comments on these public forums they are simply giving the prostitution haters more ammunition to use against us when the next criminalization attempt is made.

Not really. They can pass all the legislation they like, they will NEVER stop it. It has been around since the dawn of civilisation.
Making drugs illegal has really stopped people using them, and making it illegal to use a hand held mobile whilst driving has really stopped that. Similarly no one will ever light up if they have kids in the car after it's made illegal.  :rolleyes:

When will the twats ever learn that there is no point on passing laws that are almost impossible to enforce?

vorian

  • Guest
I hope that some posters on here realise that by passing certain comments on these public forums they are simply giving the prostitution haters more ammunition to use against us when the next criminalization attempt is made.

If they read prossynet first, the legislation will include sections which require punters to wear full hasmat suits and the wgs will be on a minimum wage of £1000 per hour. Personally I would rather anyone read the truth and on the whole that is on UKP no matter how rough and ready it can be.

Offline Bond

Not really. They can pass all the legislation they like, they will NEVER stop it. It has been around since the dawn of civilisation.
Making drugs illegal has really stopped people using them, and making it illegal to use a hand held mobile whilst driving has really stopped that. Similarly no one will ever light up if they have kids in the car after it's made illegal.  :rolleyes:

When will the twats ever learn that there is no point on passing laws that are almost impossible to enforce?

Making punting illegal will not stop all punters, but will certainly stop a significant minority. Moreover, I think that it will be quite difficult for this site to go on as it is today.

To go back to my original argument, with just one simple example . . . by referring to WGs as "prossies" and "whores" and to agency/parlour owners as "pimps", some posters on here are simply giving the criminalisation supporters more quotes to use against us.

Sometimes I think that they are actually abolitionists in disguise  . . .



Offline NIK

Making punting illegal will not stop all punters, but will certainly stop a significant minority. Moreover, I think that it will be quite difficult for this site to go on as it is today.

To go back to my original argument, with just one simple example . . . by referring to WGs as "prossies" and "whores" and to agency/parlour owners as "pimps", some posters on here are simply giving the criminalisation supporters more quotes to use against us.

Sometimes I think that they are actually abolitionists in disguise  . . .

Maybe so, but it will not stop people paying for sex.
I go to see my indie regular. I hand over the cash. We are the only two people who know about that. What are the police going to do hide under the bed?

vorian

  • Guest
Why will this site be affected,  I believe that Adam lives outside of the UK and is not a citizen.  I can find a hundred websites within seconds which promote illegal things.

a10

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External Link/Members Only

The Economist has a good article on why making it illegal to punt would be a bad idea.

Offline spellbackwards

also discussed on ' this week'   bbc. Rupert Everett and Portillo arguing against criminalisation. Abbott saying it would be a brilliant idea. Unfortunately if we get a Labour government in 2015 I can see this legislation coming in very quickly... it is the way the EU is moving at the moment.

I


LL

  • Guest
also discussed on ' this week'   bbc. Rupert Everett and Portillo arguing against criminalisation. Abbott saying it would be a brilliant idea. Unfortunately if we get a Labour government in 2015 I can see this legislation coming in very quickly... it is the way the EU is moving at the moment.

I

I'd better get working thru my hotlist before that date then as I don't think I'll be punting if it becomes illegal.
I'm already risking enough as it is - friends, family, job.  I'm not prepared to add my own liberty to that risk-list too.

Sienna_Bronze

  • Guest
I'd better get working thru my hotlist before that date then as I don't think I'll be punting if it becomes illegal.
I'm already risking enough as it is - friends, family, job.  I'm not prepared to add my own liberty to that risk-list too.

This is what the anti's don't think about. When all the good punters are scared off it leaves us with the more riskier, possibly nastier ones. It's an ill thought out law at best and dangerous at worst!

LL

  • Guest
This is what the anti's don't think about. When all the good punters are scared off it leaves us with the more riskier, possibly nastier ones. It's an ill thought out law at best and dangerous at worst!
And the punters that carry on may well stop going to GUM clinics to get tested regularly.  Right now we can be very open about what we're getting up to, when talking to staff at these clinics.  What happens when the staff are obliged to report people who admit to seeing prostitutes to the police!?

vorian

  • Guest
And the punters that carry on may well stop going to GUM clinics to get tested regularly.  Right now we can be very open about what we're getting up to, when talking to staff at these clinics.  What happens when the staff are obliged to report people who admit to seeing prostitutes to the police!?

For goodness sake, please I respect your opinion and of course if you do or do not punt that is up to you.  However GUM clinics are not going to start reporting punters who use them to the police. It will not happen.

Offline Olivia

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Making punting illegal will not stop all punters, but will certainly stop a significant minority. Moreover, I think that it will be quite difficult for this site to go on as it is today.

To go back to my original argument, with just one simple example . . . by referring to WGs as "prossies" and "whores" and to agency/parlour owners as "pimps", some posters on here are simply giving the criminalisation supporters more quotes to use against us.

Sometimes I think that they are actually abolitionists in disguise  . . .

You fail to actually qualify any of your declarations.  May I ask: what the fuck are you talking about?  I fail to appreciate the validity of your assertion that in using terms such as 'prossie', contributors to this (or any other) site are in fact cultivating material to be used 'against us'.  Why would this be so?  Upon whos authority did you see fit to determine what are acceptable or  detrimental nouns by which to refer to us sex workers?  Regurgitating this politically correct, self conscious, 'guilty conscience' tripe is what serves to fuel the detractors not the use of, in reality, utterly meaningless (until attributed) items of vocabulary, generally employed by punter and prossie alike, equally secure/unburdened in their chosen role/hobby as to be genuinely relaxed in both attitude and language. 

zatoichi

  • Guest
And the punters that carry on may well stop going to GUM clinics to get tested regularly.  Right now we can be very open about what we're getting up to, when talking to staff at these clinics.  What happens when the staff are obliged to report people who admit to seeing prostitutes to the police!?
Why would prostitution being illegal stop you from going to the gum clinic?Do you think that everybody that goes for testing says test for everything as ive been shagging hookers.

LL

  • Guest
For goodness sake, please I respect your opinion and of course if you do or do not punt that is up to you.  However GUM clinics are not going to start reporting punters who use them to the police. It will not happen.
Well it happens in Scandinavia and the Nordic model is what we're talking about right?
But OK it was wild speculation on my part, an unlikely scenario.  But for goodness sake no need to get your knickers in a twist, it's only a debate.  :hi:

Why would prostitution being illegal stop you from going to the gum clinic?Do you think that everybody that goes for testing says test for everything as ive been shagging hookers.
It wouldn't stop me from going (if I carried on punting in the event it became illegal) but some people on here have to be encouraged to go and are reluctant to get over the barrier to go that first time, out of nervousness / fear of the unknown or whatever.  Now regardless of whether people can still talk freely about punting at GUM clinics if punting did become illegal (and Vorian is probably right here), this type of punter is going to find it even more difficult to go if he knows he has to bring up the subject of punting if it had become illegal.  And we DO have to be honest with the staff in order to get the full set of tests by the way - I don't agree with your comment that we do not.  If the clinic staff are told that you've been with a civvie girl for a one-night-stand they're not necessarily going to offer all the tests.  Also remember that Hepatitis B vaccinations are only offered to people in high risk groups - for example sex workers and people who visit sex workers (to use the GUM clinics' term).

Offline Jimmyredcab



To go back to my original argument, with just one simple example . . . by referring to WGs as "prossies" and "whores" and to agency/parlour owners as "pimps", some posters on here are simply giving the criminalisation supporters more quotes to use against us.

Sometimes I think that they are actually abolitionists in disguise  . . .

You have made 12 posts since January 4th, not a good idea to lecture us about our choice of language, pro$$ie is acceptable on here even if it is banned on %%%.  :hi:


Offline mattylondon

You have made 12 posts since January 4th, not a good idea to lecture us about our choice of language, pro$$ie is acceptable on here even if it is banned on %%%.  :hi:
He can always fuck off to %%% if he doesn't like it? He'll be a hero on there.  :hi:

It's all bollocks anyway. I have been to Sweden and I have been to Norway, where it's criminalized. It is still pretty easy to punt prostitutes and there is still a street scene, at least in Oslo. It exists in Iran. It exists in Saudi Arabia. Countries which are far more repressive. It cannot be stopped as long as there's a demand by men for sex and that will never change.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2014, 11:18:05 pm by mattylondon »

Offline mattylondon

There's some kind of momentum going on, at least amongst a few politicians as they appear to think it's a popular move. It hasn't stopped the purchase of it in any of the countries I have mentioned. It may deter some. It certainly won't deter others. If you want to look at the street scene in the UK, which is illegal, it has deterred many but by no means all. And that is an act far more risky. Brothels are illegal in the UK and yet they thrive in many areas. The police could close them down right now. I suspect that they have bigger fish to fry.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2014, 11:23:54 pm by mattylondon »

Offline mattylondon

From Melon Farmers . . .

External Link/Members Only
So? Who the fuck has ever heard of 'melon farmers' and let's be honest, who gives a shit?

%%% had far more negative publicity, due to attention from Harriet Harman, when she was actually a Minister in the Labour government and yet it still exists, does it not? If they wish to copy the 'Swedish Model', they will try anyway.

I think you live in another world if you really believe that by calling a prostitute a 'WG', rather than prossie or the existence of sites like UK Punting or %%%, regardless of the opinions expressed on them, will make a blind bit of difference to their decision. The reality is that the vast majority of punters do not use punting forums, even if the power of this one is growing.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2014, 11:33:41 pm by mattylondon »

SteveNova

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How would this be enforced?   The whole idea is totally impractical and will be about as effective as the hunting ban.  Hopefully common sense will prevail, but it may be that sometime in the future we will be faced with criminalisation - it won't be the first time that a piece of ridiculous legislation is passed.  Germany and New Zealand have the right idea so why can't we follow their lead!  Hopefully politicians' views will be divided enough for this not to make law.  It all depends on how much sway Harman has in the next parliament I guess.  If Labour don't have a strong majority this possible legislation will take a back seat in my view. 

Offline smiths

How would this be enforced?   The whole idea is totally impractical and will be about as effective as the hunting ban.  Hopefully common sense will prevail, but it may be that sometime in the future we will be faced with criminalisation - it won't be the first time that a piece of ridiculous legislation is passed.  Germany and New Zealand have the right idea so why can't we follow their lead!  Hopefully politicians' views will be divided enough for this not to make law.  It all depends on how much sway Harman has in the next parliament I guess.  If Labour don't have a strong majority this possible legislation will take a back seat in my view.

It would be down to top cops, possibly police commissioners in all areas to decide whether to enforce it just like with brothels and red lights districts now. As we know in many areas they allow both to operate. Harridans coercion law hasnt led to many prosecutions, i have yet to read of one since it came in.

But just having a law criminalising punters would no doubt put off some punters who wouldnt wish to take the risk however small it might be in reality. Plus it would be on the statute book to be wheeled out at any time.

It would of course be enormously expensive to try to catch punters punting with Indies off-street and take vast police resources. I very much doubt extra money will be given to police forces. In addition the police prostitution lead, a Det Armitt recently said he saw no problem with what consenting adults get up to off-street, obviously he could be replaced for someone like Kevin Hyland, a very committed anti-prostitution copper. It would be very easy indeed to raid and close brothels obviously and catch punters while they are at it. So if such a law is passed if Harridan can muster the support i can see brothels being targeted more as that will be less police work so cheaper plus they can try to seize the owners assets under POCA.

Whatever happens prostitution will continue, it cant be stopped, just driven further underground making it less safe for all involved.

Offline NIK

It would be down to top cops, possibly police commissioners in all areas to decide whether to enforce it just like with brothels and red lights districts now. As we know in many areas they allow both to operate. Harridans coercion law hasnt led to many prosecutions, i have yet to read of one since it came in.

But just having a law criminalising punters would no doubt put off some punters who wouldnt wish to take the risk however small it might be in reality. Plus it would be on the statute book to be wheeled out at any time.

It would of course be enormously expensive to try to catch punters punting with Indies off-street and take vast police resources. I very much doubt extra money will be given to police forces. In addition the police prostitution lead, a Det Armitt recently said he saw no problem with what consenting adults get up to off-street, obviously he could be replaced for someone like Kevin Hyland, a very committed anti-prostitution copper. It would be very easy indeed to raid and close brothels obviously and catch punters while they are at it. So if such a law is passed if Harridan can muster the support i can see brothels being targeted more as that will be less police work so cheaper plus they can try to seize the owners assets under POCA.

Whatever happens prostitution will continue, it cant be stopped, just driven further underground making it less safe for all involved.

Any fucker with half a brain knows this. Unfortunately many politicians don't possess half a brain.

vt

  • Guest
Making punting illegal will not stop all punters, but will certainly stop a significant minority. Moreover, I think that it will be quite difficult for this site to go on as it is today.

To go back to my original argument, with just one simple example . . . by referring to WGs as "prossies" and "whores" and to agency/parlour owners as "pimps", some posters on here are simply giving the criminalisation supporters more quotes to use against us.

Sometimes I think that they are actually abolitionists in disguise  . . .

This appears to be the line that TPTB/prossies on Pnet are using to denigrate UKP at the moment, I've heard it several times now...that the direct language used here could be used ammunition for the antis. Then, presumably they will have a scapegoat in UKP if the antis get Nordic model legislation passed in the UK.

kenw1

  • Guest
Did anyone see the discussion programme this morning on should paying for sex be made illegal?

I missed it, I check BBC iplayer but that episode  is not available, it is not on catch-up either, does anyone know where I can get it?

Online jackdaw

Moving to criminalise punting would make some of practical aspects more difficult.

Could we use this site as it is now, for example? If not how could we get reliable recs? Similarly probably adultwork would be blocked, agency websites would be closed down, etc.

I'm already semi retired as a punter, and for me change of regs would certainly result in me never punting again. Mainly because, I already find organising a punt a faff, but also because I prefer to obey even those laws I disagree with…. if I can do that with a clear conscience.

But… yes… I suspect that when I was much younger and randier, I would have carried on punting.

Curious6705

  • Guest
also discussed on ' this week'   bbc. Rupert Everett and Portillo arguing against criminalisation. Abbott saying it would be a brilliant idea. Unfortunately if we get a Labour government in 2015 I can see this legislation coming in very quickly... it is the way the EU is moving at the moment.

I'm not sure that it is. AIUI the European Parliament can be a bit of a talking shop and votes there may not lead to action. We've seen from various reports that the sex industry is big business in Germany where prostitution is legal. Outside Germany the FemiNazis and ChristianNazis may be able to get legislation on to the books because there are not enough voices of common sense prepared to speak out against it, and that seems to be the worry here.

Dr_V_Werdegast

  • Guest
For goodness sake, please I respect your opinion and of course if you do or do not punt that is up to you.  However GUM clinics are not going to start reporting punters who use them to the police. It will not happen.

The police might go on fishing trips to the GUM clinic, though. It happens in A+ E, the police often go in looking for people who've been in fights, etc. I once went for an interview for an A+E job and one of the questions was "if the police come in looking for someone, should we help them?" I said "well we can't refuse treatment." The interviewer said, "well we're not really refusing treatment, are we?" Obviously , an interview is a stressful situation, otherwise I could have said "we are de facto refusing treatment if we don't respect patient confidentiality, since if the patient knows we don't, they probably won't come in." So I wouldn't necessarily trust anyone in the medical (or nursing) professions, personally.

jcdmj12

  • Guest
Moving to criminalise punting would make some of practical aspects more difficult.

Could we use this site as it is now, for example? If not how could we get reliable recs? Similarly probably adultwork would be blocked, agency websites would be closed down, etc.

I'm already semi retired as a punter, and for me change of regs would certainly result in me never punting again. Mainly because, I already find organising a punt a faff, but also because I prefer to obey even those laws I disagree with…. if I can do that with a clear conscience.

But… yes… I suspect that when I was much younger and randier, I would have carried on punting.

I've looked into this a bit more, and I can't see how it's workable apart from picking up blokes in brothels and kerb crawlers.  The Swedish law is worded:

"a person obtains a casual sexual relation in return for payment, shall be sentenced for purchase of a sexual service to a fine or imprisonment for at most six months."

A good defence lawyer would have a field day with that over an escort booking.  After all you're paying for time, especially if you do it in an outcall hotel, and make it clear in your initial discussion to the girl.  If you look at the convictions in Sweden, 80% of them are people who confessed when they were picked up. That's because most of the people who buy sex are otherwise law-abiding citizens who panic when sat in front of a copper.

As for the police doing fishing expeditions?  Seriously they have better things to do with their time.  Yes, they do go fishing for people hospitalised as a result of gang activity, but that's because gangs are involved in serious violent crime.    Violent crime is a high priority for them, because they can get to put dangerous people in prison for multi-year GBH sentences.  Spending a day mooching round a GUM clinic to give a couple of middle-aged blokes a caution is unlikely to be seen as a good use of time.

Just don't give your real information to the GUM clinic, and tell them you're a swinger.  They have pretty similar STI risk profiles to sex workers.

I can see it making finding reliable SPs a bit cheaper, but if people can find illicit substances online (where the penalties are far harsher), I'm sure it can be done easily with sex.

Unless you're caught bang to rights curb crawling or something equally stupid, I can't see how they'll get an easy conviction. Getting a decent lawyer on speed dial is probably a good idea though.   Of course, there is still explaining your 24-48 hour disappearance whilst they hold you, if you're unlucky enough to get grabbed...

« Last Edit: March 10, 2014, 10:46:43 pm by jcdmj12 »

Aspen

  • Guest

As for the police doing fishing expeditions?  Seriously they have better things to do with their time.

I wonder sometimes. Apparently in the States they carry out some quite intensive stings. Okay I know it's not here, but it's bound to happen when some bright spark asks why they haven't caught anyone in the last month or whatever. I've seen some furious activity against kerb crawlers in one town which must have cost a fortune and used up a lot of police time, but they still did it. Also it's quite a easy nick against people who are largely passive and non violent. That's quite attractive for getting the solved crime figures up.

I don't really care what they do legislation wise. I can't change what they are going to do, and whatever happens you just work around it. Coke and dope users seem to manage okay.

Offline simonbelly

« Last Edit: March 11, 2014, 07:56:05 am by simonbelly »

SteveNova

  • Guest
I wonder sometimes. Apparently in the States they carry out some quite intensive stings. Okay I know it's not here, but it's bound to happen when some bright spark asks why they haven't caught anyone in the last month or whatever. I've seen some furious activity against kerb crawlers in one town which must have cost a fortune and used up a lot of police time, but they still did it. Also it's quite a easy nick against people who are largely passive and non violent. That's quite attractive for getting the solved crime figures up.

I don't really care what they do legislation wise. I can't change what they are going to do, and whatever happens you just work around it. Coke and dope users seem to manage okay.

There was an item on BBC Points West about police action against curb crawlers and the help provided to the girls.  The punters were calling the street girls on their mobiles and meeting them in a quiet location, but it was the guys who were arrested for soliciting, rather than the girls.  The point is that even with the current law in place, that activity hasn't been curtailed - and its an easy one to enforce, though heavy on police time.  Also any new law, such as the one talked about, is going to be a priority in some areas and not others.  Maybe it'll all blow over - the legislation criminalising punters didn't happen in Scotland despite a private members bill, as there was little government support from what I read.

Aspen

  • Guest
There was an item on BBC Points West about police action against curb crawlers and the help provided to the girls.  The punters were calling the street girls on their mobiles and meeting them in a quiet location, but it was the guys who were arrested for soliciting, rather than the girls.

So effectively the police were using the girls as decoys to catch punters. Agent provocateurs. Interesting. And the girls were helping them were they?

You can see where it's going to go if they bring criminalisation in.

vorian

  • Guest
You can see where it's going to go if they bring criminalisation in.

Yes I can, imho nowhere. Street Prossies and kerb crawlers have been targeted successfully for years. Parlours may or may not be targeted.  However I would like to hear a realistic scenario where an incall to an indie in her own apartment could lead to arrest.

jcdmj12

  • Guest
I wonder sometimes. Apparently in the States they carry out some quite intensive stings. Okay I know it's not here, but it's bound to happen when some bright spark asks why they haven't caught anyone in the last month or whatever. I've seen some furious activity against kerb crawlers in one town which must have cost a fortune and used up a lot of police time, but they still did it. Also it's quite a easy nick against people who are largely passive and non violent. That's quite attractive for getting the solved crime figures up.

I don't really care what they do legislation wise. I can't change what they are going to do, and whatever happens you just work around it. Coke and dope users seem to manage okay.

I've thought about how to handle a potential sting situation.  Agree a small amount up front in return for a kiss, and nothing else. That's not enough to count as sex, but no policewoman is going to be happy to snog a random punter.  :D

Although you then have the problem that most coppers will fucking lie through their teeth if they can get away with it. That's why you need a good lawyer to pin 'em down.   

It will put a number of the more timid folk off though, NIK is right.




Offline Dani

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It will put a number of the more timid folk off though, NIK is right.

I don't know that it will.  We see many very nervous clients who are nervous mainly because they are under the impression it is illegal now.  It is only really informed people who know it is not illegal and the vast majority of punters don't use forums so have no idea.  they see the disclaimer about consenting adults paying for time so assume it is illegal to pay for sex yet still they do it.

How the hell they would manage it though is beyond me.  Client comes to my property and gives me cash and we have sex. How will the police know he has given me cash.  even if they could prove it how could they prove it was for sex. It could be money he owes me or a gift.  The sex part could be as I fancied them and was horny or we are swingers. 
Even with texts I never mention the cost for sex and always make people ring me if they ask that so there would eb no evidence at all that a man paid for sex with an Indie especially as people would be more careful what they trails they left.

They just could not enforce such a law as people would resort to texts or emails saying Hi so and so I have that £100 I owe you. Can I pop round later at 3pm to give it to you. I will be able to stay for an hour if that's ok with you plus if you fancy it we can have some fun and games again

There is no way they could prove it was not just people who met on a swinging site or out clubbing or are just fuck buddies

jcdmj12

  • Guest
I don't know that it will.  We see many very nervous clients who are nervous mainly because they are under the impression it is illegal now.  It is only really informed people who know it is not illegal and the vast majority of punters don't use forums so have no idea.  they see the disclaimer about consenting adults paying for time so assume it is illegal to pay for sex yet still they do it.

How the hell they would manage it though is beyond me.  Client comes to my property and gives me cash and we have sex. How will the police know he has given me cash.  even if they could prove it how could they prove it was for sex. It could be money he owes me or a gift.  The sex part could be as I fancied them and was horny or we are swingers. 
Even with texts I never mention the cost for sex and always make people ring me if they ask that so there would eb no evidence at all that a man paid for sex with an Indie especially as people would be more careful what they trails they left.

They just could not enforce such a law as people would resort to texts or emails saying Hi so and so I have that £100 I owe you. Can I pop round later at 3pm to give it to you. I will be able to stay for an hour if that's ok with you plus if you fancy it we can have some fun and games again

There is no way they could prove it was not just people who met on a swinging site or out clubbing or are just fuck buddies

Fair enough. 

Even in Sweden, which is as close to an authoritarian socialist radfem dystopia as exists on this planet, the conviction rates are unimpressive. Around 100 per year out of a population of 10 million people. This is against around 25,000 drug convictions per year.


Offline smiths

I don't know that it will.  We see many very nervous clients who are nervous mainly because they are under the impression it is illegal now.  It is only really informed people who know it is not illegal and the vast majority of punters don't use forums so have no idea.  they see the disclaimer about consenting adults paying for time so assume it is illegal to pay for sex yet still they do it.

How the hell they would manage it though is beyond me.  Client comes to my property and gives me cash and we have sex. How will the police know he has given me cash.  even if they could prove it how could they prove it was for sex. It could be money he owes me or a gift.  The sex part could be as I fancied them and was horny or we are swingers. 
Even with texts I never mention the cost for sex and always make people ring me if they ask that so there would eb no evidence at all that a man paid for sex with an Indie especially as people would be more careful what they trails they left.

They just could not enforce such a law as people would resort to texts or emails saying Hi so and so I have that £100 I owe you. Can I pop round later at 3pm to give it to you. I will be able to stay for an hour if that's ok with you plus if you fancy it we can have some fun and games again

There is no way they could prove it was not just people who met on a swinging site or out clubbing or are just fuck buddies

IMO criminalsation would certainly put some punters off as the risk wouldnt be worth the reward to them anymore, not a provable thing though of course.

As to proving the punter was committing a crime, with an Indie this would be difficult and unlikely to be something the police would look to enforce as i posted above. It would be costly and time consuming, circumstantial evidence would be the best they could realistically hope for i would imagine. A guy is seen going into the premises of a known WG and comes out looking shagged out, that kind of thing, then leave it for the jury to decide. The police and CPS would know they were on shaky ground getting a conviction so in my view they would rarely bother trying. Maybe purges from time to time. Brothels on the other hand could well be targeted of course for easy nicks and thus make it look like the law was being enforced.