Author Topic: Siennabxx- WARNING ROBBED AT GUNPOINT AVOID (SE1)  (Read 93554 times)


6 review(s) for courtsxlouise (4 positive, 0 neutral, 2 negative) [Indexed by Dark_Gable]

Offline Dark_Gable

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Forum Helper
  • ****
  • Posts: 721
  • Likes: 7
  •  
  • Reviews: 71
I contacted "her" from another punting sim, they are still operating from the same place and postcode. VERY brazen.

Offline JamesDim

Yes doesn't it just. You got to wonder why are the police dragging their feet. :unknown:

Must be pretty low on their importance scale apparently. If somebody is stabbed or shot, I'm sure they'll suddenly pay attention - yet crime prevention seems to be less of an issue.

I contacted "her" from another punting sim, they are still operating from the same place and postcode. VERY brazen.

Inform the police.

It's not brazen if they haven't been spoken to, or questioned yet - they've been doing this for months, so just another day in the office. It pretty much confirms your investigating officer has not made contact with them, which is unacceptable.

Offline Titti Tatti

This chick just text me saying she availahle tonight, prob coz the mandem are prompting her after i decided to call her yesterday for curiosity! No way would i travel southto get robbed!

Op respect fr this warning! Police are waste!

Has anyone mentioned drugs on this thread yet?

At least I hope you are off your face and that's Not how you normally think and write.

Offline Londonpunter30

I'll give the police the benefit of the doubt. They need evidence that can take time to collect plus if they arrest and charge them they all get released after 24 hours, then it's up to the CPS

Offline Boxerhull

This girl is from hull and her name is Kelly

Offline JackJones

I contacted "her" from another punting sim, they are still operating from the same place and postcode. VERY brazen.

Contacted her as well. Wouldn't come on the phone at first but eventually a female came on the phone. Same postcodes given. Brazen as fuck.

Offline LLPunting

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Forum Helper
  • ****
  • Posts: 17,545
  • Likes: 191
  •  
  • Reviews: 360
Must be pretty low on their importance scale apparently. If somebody is stabbed or shot, I'm sure they'll suddenly pay attention - yet crime prevention seems to be less of an issue.

Inform the police.

It's not brazen if they haven't been spoken to, or questioned yet - they've been doing this for months, so just another day in the office. It pretty much confirms your investigating officer has not made contact with them, which is unacceptable.

Finally!
This I totally agree with.
One of us isn't feeling right.  :drinks:

DylanPerry

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Guest
I'll give the police the benefit of the doubt. They need evidence that can take time to collect plus if they arrest and charge them they all get released after 24 hours, then it's up to the CPS


Indeed. We generally don't have kangaroo courts within this lovely democracy.

However I do find it hard to believe that's they're back on aw 'running job' after being allowed to go home pending court hearing??? That would be brazen. Also given firearm would be more likely that they're kept in custody? I wouldn't particularly know. lol


Also sidenote RE other comments... as for popo making a booking so to speak and having the big SO19 boys on standby...v unlikely course of action for numerous reasons, namely core 5-O principle of minimising damage, with likely showdown happening in a public place.

As for Mr Big 'allowing' his baby mama to whore on genuine terms at this point...boy, there really is no point trying to read the minds of such people. He may allow it, he may not.


MARLO...have you heard anything since your follow up?

RE this case, I think we're just gonna have to wait this one out lads.


This girl is from hull and her name is Kelly
🤨

punther

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Guest
The black guy only covered his hair, so I got a good look at his face, the other guy used a bandana to cover the lower part of his face.

These guys were confident with it, like they had done this a lot of times with no repercussions, this was another day in the office for them and they had no fear.

The other punter on here who was robbed in July, was robbed in the same location, so they have been operating there for at a least 6 weeks. last_days_of_logan was also given the same postcode, I'm not sure how far back that was.

how long did they hold you up for? from time it started till they let you go?

Offline Boxerhull

I think,maybe not a lot of stolen pics these days

punther

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Guest


He's had a kid with her now.. probably found out about her previous work and now is lining up punters to rob. No way is he letting men fuck his baby momma for money any more.


you sure about that

he can have a kid with another girl who isn't a prossie

he will also likely with time have her go back to escorting and collect a portion of the cash she earns

being baby mama don't mean ish

Offline LLPunting

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Forum Helper
  • ****
  • Posts: 17,545
  • Likes: 191
  •  
  • Reviews: 360
Thanks for asking, I spoke to the investigating officer earlier :thumbsup:

...

I offered to forward him the social media account posted earlier in the thread but he refused this at this stage as the Met have various specialist teams for looking through social media etc. He explained that if there is a separate investigation by myself or other parties (e.g. forum members) it could jeopardise things, so it's best that we let that rest. I will be reporting a post or two to admin to get him to remove certain images later.

DG,
Have all the images that you asked to be removed now gone from this site?
What did the police mean by "separate investigation..."?

Offline Dark_Gable

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Forum Helper
  • ****
  • Posts: 721
  • Likes: 7
  •  
  • Reviews: 71
how long did they hold you up for? from time it started till they let you go?
About 15-20 minutes, but it felt like over an hour.

They let me go abruptly, as the guy who was holding me was claiming he wanted to hold me until after midnight until the daily withdrawal limits reset, so they could get even more money. The guy who was coming back from the cashpoint shouted "feds" and the other guy who was holding me ran off.

FYI the guy made 3 trips to the cashpoint. The first card wouldn't let him withdraw money against that card, the bank texted me immediately to see if it was a legit transaction attempt. He gave me that card back.
He then went off with another card, came back claiming he couldn't get any money from it (a lie), took a 3rd card and took money from that as well. These last 2 cards were not returned to me.

Offline CluckinBell

About 15-20 minutes, but it felt like over an hour.

They let me go abruptly, as the guy who was holding me was claiming he wanted to hold me until after midnight until the daily withdrawal limits reset, so they could get even more money. The guy who was coming back from the cashpoint shouted "feds" and the other guy who was holding me ran off.

FYI the guy made 3 trips to the cashpoint. The first card wouldn't let him withdraw money against that card, the bank texted me immediately to see if it was a legit transaction attempt. He gave me that card back.
He then went off with another card, came back claiming he couldn't get any money from it (a lie), took a 3rd card and took money from that as well. These last 2 cards were not returned to me.

So how you feeling mentally now?

Offline Dark_Gable

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Forum Helper
  • ****
  • Posts: 721
  • Likes: 7
  •  
  • Reviews: 71
DG,
Have all the images that you asked to be removed now gone from this site?
What did the police mean by "separate investigation..."?
No, admin must have missed my request (via PM), I will give him another nudge or submit reports.

Separate investigation refers to any third party digging up information, e.g finding her Facebook, Instagram etc. He just said that it would have to be explained at a later point if any of the information is used in the case.

Offline LLPunting

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Forum Helper
  • ****
  • Posts: 17,545
  • Likes: 191
  •  
  • Reviews: 360
About 15-20 minutes, but it felt like over an hour.

They let me go abruptly, as the guy who was holding me was claiming he wanted to hold me until after midnight until the daily withdrawal limits reset, so they could get even more money. The guy who was coming back from the cashpoint shouted "feds" and the other guy who was holding me ran off.

FYI the guy made 3 trips to the cashpoint. The first card wouldn't let him withdraw money against that card, the bank texted me immediately to see if it was a legit transaction attempt. He gave me that card back.
He then went off with another card, came back claiming he couldn't get any money from it (a lie), took a 3rd card and took money from that as well. These last 2 cards were not returned to me.

"feds" not "feebs" or "5-O"?  Fuck sake these twats can't even speak English.   :dash:

So the guys are ripping each other off?  :dash:

No chance he wasn't wearing gloves when he touched your returned card and it's now with the police?

Offline LLPunting

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Forum Helper
  • ****
  • Posts: 17,545
  • Likes: 191
  •  
  • Reviews: 360
No, admin must have missed my request (via PM), I will give him another nudge or submit reports.

Separate investigation refers to any third party digging up information, e.g finding her Facebook, Instagram etc. He just said that it would have to be explained at a later point if any of the information is used in the case.

Best report the posts as well then.

Would everyone please respect this instruction?

It might be best to request this thread locked until the case is closed.  We all want to see the guilty parties convicted.

Offline Dark_Gable

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Forum Helper
  • ****
  • Posts: 721
  • Likes: 7
  •  
  • Reviews: 71
So how you feeling mentally now?
I feel fine for the most part.

After the incident I was in shock for a while and end up getting a bit emotional a bit after they left but before the police arrived. I also felt strange the morning after. Since then I've been feeling alright.

This kind of thing plays on a guy's mind though, looking back on it you come up with a lot of scenarios in your mind along the lines of:

"I should have kicked him in the balls..."
"I should have wrestled the gun from him..."
"I should have chanced it and run.."
"When he dropped the card I should have kicked him in the face..."

That's just a small sample, the incident and various courses of action have played out in my mind hundreds of times :(
« Last Edit: September 18, 2018, 01:11:38 am by Dark_Gable »

Offline Dark_Gable

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Forum Helper
  • ****
  • Posts: 721
  • Likes: 7
  •  
  • Reviews: 71
"feds" not "feebs" or "5-O"?  Fuck sake these twats can't even speak English.   :dash:

So the guys are ripping each other off?  :dash:

No chance he wasn't wearing gloves when he touched your returned card and it's now with the police?
He gave the card a good rub with his jacket and then dropped it to the floor. The police don't think it's worth looking into as he did give it a thorough rub and I handled it afterwards.

punther

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Guest
Minor details...and I feel he's already said it...but when did Punther, punt her?
What I'm wondering here is how she had a sprog this month and no one ever reported that she was hooking while pregnant.

P.S. I'm aware of the theory surrounding that (it's been no punts and set ups while she's been pregnant and now mothering), but nonetheless asking as Punther's review was in June.

the most recent time i saw her was this year when she was working in chatsworth road in croydon

cant remember exactly when

punther

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Guest

They let me go abruptly, as the guy who was holding me was claiming he wanted to hold me until after midnight until the daily withdrawal limits reset, so they could get even more money.

These last 2 cards were not returned to me.

ok this makes sense

TailSeeker

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Guest

Indeed. We generally don't have kangaroo courts within this lovely democracy.

However I do find it hard to believe that's they're back on aw 'running job' after being allowed to go home pending court hearing??? That would be brazen. Also given firearm would be more likely that they're kept in custody? I wouldn't particularly know. lol


Also sidenote RE other comments... as for popo making a booking so to speak and having the big SO19 boys on standby...v unlikely course of action for numerous reasons, namely core 5-O principle of minimising damage, with likely showdown happening in a public place.

As for Mr Big 'allowing' his baby mama to whore on genuine terms at this point...boy, there really is no point trying to read the minds of such people. He may allow it, he may not.


MARLO...have you heard anything since your follow up?

RE this case, I think we're just gonna have to wait this one out lads.

🤨

It can be down to evidence and timing, they're not necessarily going to set up a sting as they don't want to send a plain clothes officer without a gun up against armed individuals, and if they set up around the place, they're going to need to see a gun or have reports of a suspect on site. It's the fucking bitch with robbery. Often it's just "we have to get lucky".

The use of a gun though should hopefully get them moving more.

Usually with theft it seems to be down to trying to sell/pawn items that have been flagged that get people caught. Unfortunately cash is rarely traceable (outside of bank robberies). If they're lucky they've got one of then on cctv using a cash point. It's just a matter of getting a supeona for the footage. Then matching faces.

Although they may have issue if they're not already known to them in the system. ID off social media doesn't mean much. There are bias to consider (enough psychology studies show people fill in gaps). I'm a little shocked DG didn't do a sketch (unless he has already). One of the first things they should do while the memory is fresh. At this point would be dubious for the black guy due to the social media posts.

I'll give you however the police are shite in their response times, the only time I ever got them out fast was when I was in a house being burgled (and as my friend put it, I have "young, small white girl voice" on the phone, so had a faster response), otherwise has been shittily slow in London. Follow up is pretty poor, I've always had to chase.

Who knows though, we might spot them soon on Crimestoppers.

TailSeeker

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Guest
I feel fine for the most part.

After the incident I was in shock for a while and end up getting a bit emotional a bit after they left but before the police arrived. I also felt strange the morning after. Since then I've been feeling alright.

This kind of thing plays on a guy's mind though, looking back on it you come up with a lot of scenarios in your mind along the lines of:

"I should have kicked him in the balls..."
"I should have wrestled the gun from him..."
"I should have chanced it and run.."
"When he dropped the card I should have kicked him in the face..."

That's just a small sample, the incident and various courses of action have played out in my mind hundreds of times :(

Try not to wonder about the what ifs, the most import thing is that you survived.

I know it is hard, but it is ultimately best that you went along and got out of it alive and unharmed. There really is nothing you can do when faced with a gun, you just did what you needed to do to get out of there in one piece. And hats off to you to going to the police afterwards.

Offline Titti Tatti

Try not to wonder about the what ifs, the most import thing is that you survived.

I know it is hard, but it is ultimately best that you went along and got out of it alive and unharmed. There really is nothing you can do when faced with a gun, you just did what you needed to do to get out of there in one piece. And hats off to you to going to the police afterwards.

This +1. Well said.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2018, 02:02:04 am by Titti Tatti »

DylanPerry

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Guest
It can be down to evidence and timing, they're not necessarily going to set up a sting as they don't want to send a plain clothes officer without a gun up against armed individuals, and if they set up around the place, they're going to need to see a gun or have reports of a suspect on site. It's the fucking bitch with robbery. Often it's just "we have to get lucky".

The use of a gun though should hopefully get them moving more.

Usually with theft it seems to be down to trying to sell/pawn items that have been flagged that get people caught. Unfortunately cash is rarely traceable (outside of bank robberies). If they're lucky they've got one of then on cctv using a cash point. It's just a matter of getting a supeona for the footage. Then matching faces.

Although they may have issue if they're not already known to them in the system. ID off social media doesn't mean much. There are bias to consider (enough psychology studies show people fill in gaps). I'm a little shocked DG didn't do a sketch (unless he has already). One of the first things they should do while the memory is fresh. At this point would be dubious for the black guy due to the social media posts.

I'll give you however the police are shite in their response times, the only time I ever got them out fast was when I was in a house being burgled (and as my friend put it, I have "young, small white girl voice" on the phone, so had a faster response), otherwise has been shittily slow in London. Follow up is pretty poor, I've always had to chase.

Who knows though, we might spot them soon on Crimestoppers.

(RE Sting) Yup, one of numerous reasons I didn't name. I understand 100% why this course of action isn't being taken.
As for the rest though...boy.


Spot on RE cash and CCTV (obtaining these always do seem to take their time too, don't they), latter being promising. If not known in system, DG + social media may well be ignored, but an appeal should do the job (I've seen similar cashpoint CCTV appeals in my borough for what was basically from stealing a purse out of an uncovered, empty convertible! I.e. no force in any variety of the word).


One thing I'm somewhat in disbelief over is it seems the robbers are not aware of this thread (they would not still be going about things so brazenly, and various accounts would have been deleted, surely?). I typically find British WGs especially are aware of, and check this site.

DylanPerry

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Guest
Try not to wonder about the what ifs, the most import thing is that you survived.

I know it is hard, but it is ultimately best that you went along and got out of it alive and unharmed. There really is nothing you can do when faced with a gun, you just did what you needed to do to get out of there in one piece. And hats off to you to going to the police afterwards.

+1

Even in regards to not having valuables with you during punts, who knows...if you didn't, they may have been more confrontational, or even thought you were bullshitting them. From there, many possible worse outcomes. Certainly would have got physical from searching you at the very least.

Offline peter purves

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Banned
  • Posts: 14,865
  • Likes: 8
  •  
  • Reviews: 25
He gave the card a good rub with his jacket and then dropped it to the floor. The police don't think it's worth looking into as he did give it a thorough rub and I handled it afterwards.

Strange, was party to this conversation a few days ago. It was suggested that rubbing off was insufficient to remove DNA and/or there is a possibility that DNA traces may be there still . Notwithstanding from the jacket also. In other words, if you do not try you'll never find out  :unknown:.

The more I hear of the police activities the more I am worried about the case. However, keeping my fingers crossed that all of the above is wrong.

Banned reason: Can't / won't take advice.
Banned by: daviemac

TailSeeker

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Guest
(RE Sting) Yup, one of numerous reasons I didn't name. I understand 100% why this course of action isn't being taken.
As for the rest though...boy.


Spot on RE cash and CCTV (obtaining these always do seem to take their time too, don't they), latter being promising. If not known in system, DG + social media may well be ignored, but an appeal should do the job (I've seen similar cashpoint CCTV appeals in my borough for what was basically from stealing a purse out of an uncovered, empty convertible! I.e. no force in any variety of the word).


One thing I'm somewhat in disbelief over is it seems the robbers are not aware of this thread (they would not still be going about things so brazenly, and various accounts would have been deleted, surely?). I typically find British WGs especially are aware of, and check this site.

I'll be honest, I'm not entirely surprised is they don't know. All mentions are banned and deleted on SAAFE, and UKE isn't really known (I only learnt about it through mentions here). But they also might just be over confident arseholes and not care.

By the switch in profile, certainly seems to suggest they have some idea. But still being over confident in never being caught, they will eventually, but it will likely never make the papers, "punters get robbed" isn't exactly a headline any want to run, goes against the "all prossies are victims/forced" mentality so many take.

Offline MrMatrix

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Forum Helper
  • ****
  • Posts: 8,086
  • Likes: 42
  •  
  • Reviews: 124
I'll be honest, I'm not entirely surprised is they don't know. All mentions are banned and deleted on SAAFE, and UKE isn't really known (I only learnt about it through mentions here). But they also might just be over confident arseholes and not care.

By the switch in profile, certainly seems to suggest they have some idea. But still being over confident in never being caught, they will eventually, but it will likely never make the papers, "punters get robbed" isn't exactly a headline any want to run, goes against the "all prossies are victims/forced" mentality so many take.
Might have done had the punter been shot dead...........
And why are all mentions are banned and deleted on SAAFE ? Surely the SPs want this resolved as much as we do on UKP and see these guys apprehended.

Offline last_days_of_logan

you sure about that

he can have a kid with another girl who isn't a prossie

he will also likely with time have her go back to escorting and collect a portion of the cash she earns

being baby mama don't mean ish

very true. it isnt uncommon at all...infact its quite regular that working girls have partners that know what they do or are part of a group that do admin for working girls and take commission

Offline last_days_of_logan

Strange, was party to this conversation a few days ago. It was suggested that rubbing off was insufficient to remove DNA and/or there is a possibility that DNA traces may be there still . Notwithstanding from the jacket also. In other words, if you do not try you'll never find out  :unknown:.

The more I hear of the police activities the more I am worried about the case. However, keeping my fingers crossed that all of the above is wrong.

probably cost money that they dont think is worth spending.

still with a firearm you would think maybe they would, having said that gun crime in london is on the up... quite a few boys carry replicas these days as much as the real deal

Offline last_days_of_logan

I feel fine for the most part.

After the incident I was in shock for a while and end up getting a bit emotional a bit after they left but before the police arrived. I also felt strange the morning after. Since then I've been feeling alright.

This kind of thing plays on a guy's mind though, looking back on it you come up with a lot of scenarios in your mind along the lines of:

"I should have kicked him in the balls..."
"I should have wrestled the gun from him..."
"I should have chanced it and run.."
"When he dropped the card I should have kicked him in the face..."

That's just a small sample, the incident and various courses of action have played out in my mind hundreds of times :(

LOL, dude.... no way. That's the kind of feeling people get when there is a 1 on 1 aggro in the club with someone walking away or shifting eye contact to their feet......not faced with TWO armed guys one of which is carrying a gun. Unless you're about that life you won't try anything or call their bluff

if i am honest...if you did say i tried an MMA move on them and then leaped through the window i personally wouldnt call that brave or smart , in my head i would probably think it was pretty stupid thing to do

ya did it right....the brave part is going to police straight away and also warning us here. like i said from the get go DG

HEROO!!!!

Offline Trenlover

I feel fine for the most part.

After the incident I was in shock for a while and end up getting a bit emotional a bit after they left but before the police arrived. I also felt strange the morning after. Since then I've been feeling alright.

This kind of thing plays on a guy's mind though, looking back on it you come up with a lot of scenarios in your mind along the lines of:

"I should have kicked him in the balls..."
"I should have wrestled the gun from him..."
"I should have chanced it and run.."
"When he dropped the card I should have kicked him in the face..."

That's just a small sample, the incident and various courses of action have played out in my mind hundreds of times :(

Thats normal, these things leave you with a bit of trauma and psychological scarring for a while but typically it subsides after 3 months.  You was caught unprepared by 2 people who were armed,   theres nothing else you could of done.


Stevensmiles

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Guest
Yes I agree with the others who say thanks for sharing.

I know a lot of this type of incident will not get reported so good on you mate.

I suppose we all have to be wary when punting.

Offline MARLO1


MARLO...have you heard anything since your follow up?


Nah not even other than who she is I don’t know anything more than that.

It’s crazy to think she’s still advertising and accepting booking and If the police don’t do anything they won’t stop either. If they’re getting away with it they’ve got no reason to stop. I just hope as much people as possible see this and don’t call her

Offline MARLO1

This girl is from hull and her name is Kelly

Brazilian Martian got anything to say about this?

Offline Brazilian Martian

Brazilian Martian got anything to say about this?

Another post from a member with no review's and a low post count

Offline MARLO1

Another post from a member with no review's and a low post count

Lol well done
:cool: :drinks:

Offline last_days_of_logan


Offline last_days_of_logan


Offline MrMatrix

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Forum Helper
  • ****
  • Posts: 8,086
  • Likes: 42
  •  
  • Reviews: 124
Another post from a member with no review's and a low post count
Yes been here 3 years and two punts reviewed in the last 10 days. About time I'd say. Hopefully we will see more reviews from him now he's started. :hi:

Offline Brazilian Martian

Yes been here 3 years and two punts reviewed in the last 10 days. About time I'd say. Hopefully we will see more reviews from him now he's started. :hi:

Wishful thinking  :sarcastic:

Offline MrMatrix

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Forum Helper
  • ****
  • Posts: 8,086
  • Likes: 42
  •  
  • Reviews: 124
Wishful thinking  :sarcastic:
I know, I'd rather encourage him than kick him, which is so tempting :hi:

Offline last_days_of_logan

Wishful thinking  :sarcastic:

Serious note though BM, why you giving MARLO1 a hard time man. Gave us the first major break through even though he knew he would get stick for it...come through with a couple of veery helpful reviews..., doesnt start nothing , friendly and polite

honestly it feels like you know this guy personally and just dont like him :D

Offline last_days_of_logan

I know, I'd rather encourage him than kick him

have to agree with this

Offline Brazilian Martian

Serious note though BM, why you giving MARLO1 a hard time man. Gave us the first major break through even though he knew he would get stick for it...come through with a couple of veery helpful reviews..., doesnt start nothing , friendly and polite

honestly it feels like you know this guy personally and just dont like him :D

No offense meant by this but you don't really have a history with dealing with internet trolls or other undesirables ive had these cunts sabotage previous review's and even go back inform prossies of reviews ive written which lead to them creating a fake profile on here to shit start,certain members have a eye and nose for sniffing out undesirables. James999,Virtualwaster,Sinz,Smith,Belgerion, i would also include myself in there as well. Hopefully im proven wrong about marlo1 but i dont buy what he's selling.

Offline jon22992

Profile is fake OP I know this because I've seen that name and picture before elsewhere. I recognise talking to her on POF. her comms were bad and it didn't go any further. Sorry for your loss. Contact the bank and claim you was robbed. File a case. Police are involved so just give a police reference number and you'll be promptly refunded.

Offline BrianGriffin2

Got an unsolicited text from her last night about her being available, so they are still obviously out here robbing people

Offline last_days_of_logan

No offense meant by this but you don't really have a history with dealing with internet trolls or other undesirables ive had these cunts sabotage previous review's and even go back inform prossies of reviews ive written which lead to them creating a fake profile on here to shit start,certain members have a eye and nose for sniffing out undesirables. James999,Virtualwaster,Sinz,Smith,Belgerion, i would also include myself in there as well. Hopefully im proven wrong about marlo1 but i dont buy what he's selling.
fair enough BM, we can agree to disagree on this one

Offline Brazilian Martian