Author Topic: First prosecution  (Read 3499 times)

Offline Elvislives

Saw this on tele today

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First prosecution for paying for sex

Has anyone on here had any experiences with the police while going about their business?


Offline mmmmaguire

And just below this article is this--
'Despicable thugs' target 101-year-old man in Tyrone burglary

Pity the PSNI couldnt deal with REAL crime

jon84

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Wk see how he got caught tho?

The only way I can see is that the girl told police about him

Online scutty brown

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just for the record

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Paying for sexual services of a person

15.—(1) The Sexual Offences (Northern Ireland) Order 2008 is amended as follows.

(2) In the heading to Part 5, after “PROSTITUTION” insert “AND PAYING FOR SEXUAL SERVICES OF A PERSON”.

(3) In Article 58 (interpretation of this Part) at the end of paragraph (3) insert “other than in Article 64A”.

(4) Article 59 (loitering or soliciting for purposes of prostitution) is repealed.

(5) For Article 64A (paying for sexual services of a prostitute subjected to force etc.) substitute—
“Paying for sexual services of a person

64A.—(1) A person (A) commits an offence if A obtains sexual services from a person (B)in exchange for payment—

(a)if the payment is made or promised by A; or

(b)if the payment is made or promised by a third party and A knows or believes that the payment is made or promised by a third party.

(2) A person guilty of an offence under this Article is liable—

(a)on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum, or both;

(b)on conviction on indictment to imprisonment for a term not exceeding one year or a fine, or both.

(3) In paragraph (1), “payment” means any financial advantage to B, or any person other than B, including the discharge of an obligation to pay or the provision of goods or services (other than sexual services)gratuitously or at a discount.

(4) No offence is committed under this Article unless the sexual services that are provided or are to be provided by B to A involve—

(a)B being physically in A’s presence,

(b)B touching A or A touching B, and

(c)the touching being sexual; or

(d)B touching B in a sexual manner for the sexual gratification of A, B being physically in A’s presence.

(5) B does not commit an offence by doing anything which (apart from this paragraph) would amount to—

(a)aiding, abetting, counselling or procuring the commission of an offence under this Article by A;

(b)conspiring with A to commit an offence under this Article; or

(c)an offence under Part 2 of the Serious Crime Act 2007 (encouraging or assisting offences) in relation to the commission of an offence under this Article by A.”.


(6) The Department must before the coming into operation of subsection (5) raise public awareness of the change in the law to be effected by that subsection.

(7) The Department must, at the end of the period of 3 years beginning with the coming into operation of subsection (5), review the operation of Article 64A of the Sexual Offences (Northern Ireland) Order 2008 and lay before the Assembly a report on that review; that report must in particular include—

(a)information as to the number of arrests and convictions during that period in respect of offences under Article 64A;

(b)the Department’s assessment of the impact of Article 64A on the safety and well-being of persons providing for payment sexual services of the kind to which that Article applies;

(c)information as to the number of arrests and convictions in the period covered by the report in respect of—

(i)offences under section 2 committed with a view to exploitation that consists of or includes behaviour within section 3(3) (sexual exploitation);

(ii)offences under section 4 committed with the intention of committing an offence mentioned in sub-paragraph (i); and

(d)the Department’s assessment of the extent to which Article 64A has operated to reduce human trafficking for the purposes of sexual exploitation.


« Last Edit: October 29, 2017, 12:26:20 pm by scutty brown »

Offline Belgarion

Saw this on tele today

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First prosecution for paying for sex

Has anyone on here had any experiences with the police while going about their business?

Interesting first post  :rolleyes:

Online scutty brown

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applies to Northern Ireland only
but it makes a punting phone purchased for cash even more essential.
only turn it on when you need it, don't travel with it turned on, and change the SIM card frequently
and only topup with cash vouchers

and make sure no-one, especially the girl, can see your registration number.

All it takes now to get arrested is for an annoyed or mental girl to hand a punters details to the police.

Offline Greg05

just for the record

External Link/Members Only

Paying for sexual services of a person

15.—(1) The Sexual Offences (Northern Ireland) Order 2008 is amended as follows.

(2) In the heading to Part 5, after “PROSTITUTION” insert “AND PAYING FOR SEXUAL SERVICES OF A PERSON”.

(3) In Article 58 (interpretation of this Part) at the end of paragraph (3) insert “other than in Article 64A”.

(4) Article 59 (loitering or soliciting for purposes of prostitution) is repealed.

(5) For Article 64A (paying for sexual services of a prostitute subjected to force etc.) substitute—
“Paying for sexual services of a person

64A.—(1) A person (A) commits an offence if A obtains sexual services from a person (B)in exchange for payment—

(a)if the payment is made or promised by A; or

(b)if the payment is made or promised by a third party and A knows or believes that the payment is made or promised by a third party.

(2) A person guilty of an offence under this Article is liable—

(a)on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum, or both;

(b)on conviction on indictment to imprisonment for a term not exceeding one year or a fine, or both.

(3) In paragraph (1), “payment” means any financial advantage to B, or any person other than B, including the discharge of an obligation to pay or the provision of goods or services (other than sexual services)gratuitously or at a discount.

(4) No offence is committed under this Article unless the sexual services that are provided or are to be provided by B to A involve—

(a)B being physically in A’s presence,

(b)B touching A or A touching B, and

(c)the touching being sexual; or

(d)B touching B in a sexual manner for the sexual gratification of A, B being physically in A’s presence.

(5) B does not commit an offence by doing anything which (apart from this paragraph) would amount to—

(a)aiding, abetting, counselling or procuring the commission of an offence under this Article by A;

(b)conspiring with A to commit an offence under this Article; or

(c)an offence under Part 2 of the Serious Crime Act 2007 (encouraging or assisting offences) in relation to the commission of an offence under this Article by A.”.


(6) The Department must before the coming into operation of subsection (5) raise public awareness of the change in the law to be effected by that subsection.

(7) The Department must, at the end of the period of 3 years beginning with the coming into operation of subsection (5), review the operation of Article 64A of the Sexual Offences (Northern Ireland) Order 2008 and lay before the Assembly a report on that review; that report must in particular include—

(a)information as to the number of arrests and convictions during that period in respect of offences under Article 64A;

(b)the Department’s assessment of the impact of Article 64A on the safety and well-being of persons providing for payment sexual services of the kind to which that Article applies;

(c)information as to the number of arrests and convictions in the period covered by the report in respect of—

(i)offences under section 2 committed with a view to exploitation that consists of or includes behaviour within section 3(3) (sexual exploitation);

(ii)offences under section 4 committed with the intention of committing an offence mentioned in sub-paragraph (i); and

(d)the Department’s assessment of the extent to which Article 64A has operated to reduce human trafficking for the purposes of sexual exploitation.

So sex is a no. Massage with HE a no. What about lap Dances? Presumably if she doesn’t touch herself or A that’s just about ok?

Online scutty brown

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So sex is a no. Massage with HE a no. What about lap Dances? Presumably if she doesn’t touch herself or A that’s just about ok?

that would be my reading of it as well, but I'm no lawyer.
At face value, one touch could send you to jail.

I wonder if any guidelines for prosecution have been issued?
« Last Edit: October 29, 2017, 11:15:51 pm by scutty brown »

Offline Greg05

Pretty hard to prove too unless you have text messages outlining in detail what you want and for how much or a surveillance operation of some sort. Otherwise I’d have thought it was he said she said...

Offline Juilius_Sneezer

that would be my reading of it as well, but I'm no lawyer.
At face value, one touch could send you to jail.

I wonder if any guidelines for prosecution have been issued?
By my reading a lap dance would violate 64A.-(3) potentially in it's entirety depending on how raunchy the lapdance was. At the very least merely being in a strip club and buying the dance could be an offence as it violates 64A.-(3) (a) since you are physically there and have offered the cash. The owners of strip clubs could also be arrested frankly under 64A.-(1) (b).

By my reading the girl is also criminalised in these acts. Mere communications amount to part 64A.-(5) (b) and condemn both parties but with the editing I am not so sure. *edit* So looks to me like it allows her to assist authorities as long as she doesn't take part in anything in part 64.A-(3).

Fuck with the right (or wrong) solicitor this law could really tighten the noose on anybody buying a girl a drink in a bar while he has a twinkle in his eye... :dash:
« Last Edit: October 29, 2017, 11:38:57 pm by Juilius_Sneezer »

Offline IrishBob

Pretty hard to prove too unless you have text messages outlining in detail what you want and for how much or a surveillance operation of some sort. Otherwise I’d have thought it was he said she said...

And how do they prove you've paid specifically for sexual services or even at all?

They would need video/audio of it.

Offline belfastpunter123

Based on the article Human Trafficking might have more to do with the prosecution than targeting all working girls. PSNI get a arrest for the offence PPS get a case.

Way around the purchase WGs put an overpriced item on gumtree or other sites. Punters know what the item is.

Officer i was only looking to buy the tv unit/bookcase etc for £150.  We kust happened to hit it off when I arrived hence being caught with the pants down. Of course doesn't solve the issue of psycho girls chopping you in.

Makes selection of girls based on positive reviews even more essential

Offline Greg05

This seems to be due up in court tomorrow?

Wonder how this law mashes with pornography laws if you were to film your exploits in Northern Ireland?

Offline WomanJesus

Wanted to start punting for years. Local indipendant girls only, but this law just scares me off.  :thumbsdown:

Offline Gordo

Check this video out from Donnie Baker, on the subject of solicitation.

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If you don't want to copy link , go to it through Donnie Baker youtube channel, video dated 26 Nov 2018, titled
Donnie Baker reminds you not to pump and run during police stops.

State Law.

Offline Gordo

Sorry dated Nov 2017, not 2018.

Offline fatbloke

I remember seeing a video a while back on prostitution in the US. The escort they interviewed said that if you pay a certain amount for a sex act then it's illegal. If you pay for a woman's time and you both consent to sex, it's not illegal because you're paying for their time. I don't think the police or legal system would see it that way. Does anyone in NI know if this is true for NI?

Offline ardsman99

Hi,
This is my first contribution to this forum...And to be honest it is more looking advice from more experienced guys. I want to make my first appointment but find it almost impossible to get the paranoia of the law... Any advice on "protecting" yourself would be hugely appreciate. I have tentatively booked an appointment with who looks like a long standing independent girl, but I suppose your imagination runs away with you about police stings etc... Any advice or suggestions would be appreciated.

Offline fatbloke

I'm English so I don't have this problem. I was just curious how things work in NI in case the law changes here too. I reposted this as a topic to get more answers. One poster wrote this below, but of course there's no guarantees.

Quote from: hrm69 on Yesterday at 09:30:14 pm
I seen an interview a while back with one of the chief cops here about the lack of convictions. He had said that they don’t have the manpower to target everyone so have to prioritise the gangs. If memory serves me right he pretty much said they won’t go near the girls who they know are working of their own free will in the safety of their own home.

I’ve not punted in Belfast in a good few years now and even then I tended to look for girls on tour but that’s not as good as it was. Would still do if something really good jumped out at me. Tend to save my cash anytime I’m in England or Scotland with work.


I guess one way of making sure they're genuine is to only search on adultwork and make sure they have reviews on here.Of course nothing is guaranteed 100% and it's up to you of course. Good luck!

Offline IrishBob

Hi,
This is my first contribution to this forum...And to be honest it is more looking advice from more experienced guys. I want to make my first appointment but find it almost impossible to get the paranoia of the law... Any advice on "protecting" yourself would be hugely appreciate. I have tentatively booked an appointment with who looks like a long standing independent girl, but I suppose your imagination runs away with you about police stings etc... Any advice or suggestions would be appreciated.

I stay away from the Eastern Europeans who advertise on backpage. I think if theres a group the police will be looking at for prostitution it will be one of their brothels.

Get a punting phone. A cheap phone from a supermarket or phone shop will do. Even if you are able to punt without any personal issues it's a good idea to separate it from your personal life.

I tend to book or meet well reviewed girls/ladies who have been around for a while and are reviewed here or on other websites.

There's a sticky post somewhere that has other advice too on this forum. Just be calm, friendly and well groomed/clean. That is the most important thing really

Offline Greg05

This case seems really strange... the girl works in a petrol station it seems and the act took place on the forecourt. The mind boggles. It has been held up as the girl claimed to be working... relisted for Valentine’s Day I think. So how did it get to police I wonder?