Author Topic: Do u think any of the Soho walk up's that got shut down could ever re open again  (Read 4307 times)

LondonCity

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Guest
If Westminster council had a new mayor for example

Offline Mr Farkyhars

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Banned
  • Posts: 1,337
  • Likes: 1
  •  
  • Reviews: 4
If Westminster council had a new mayor for example

Don't the flats get re-purposed pretty quickly? I certainly would arrange that, if I were in the City of Westminster's position.
Banned reason: Nothing in. 7 years
Banned by: Iloveoral

Offline Brazilian Martian

Not sure I remember the Blore courts walk ups when they used to be around they had a Portuguese woman from Manchester called Johanna. My god she had a proper nothern dialect filthy as well amazing body. Soho 2007 never a better time for soho IMHO

LondonCity

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Guest
Not sure I remember the Blore courts walk ups when they used to be around they had a Portuguese woman from Manchester called Johanna. My god she had a proper nothern dialect filthy as well amazing body. Soho 2007 never a better time for soho IMHO


I agree with this that was the year i first began punting there

LondonCity

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Guest
Don't the flats get re-purposed pretty quickly? I certainly would arrange that, if I were in the City of Westminster's position.

I'm not sure but there are deffo previous walk up flats that are just used for residential purpose basically the same as before just nobody working there for sex purpose. i'm not a 100% sure but possibly most are

Offline Mr Farkyhars

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Banned
  • Posts: 1,337
  • Likes: 1
  •  
  • Reviews: 4
there are deffo previous walk up flats that are just used for residential purpose basically the same as before just nobody working there for sex purpose

That's what I meant - though some might be re-purposed as offices. Either way, the people who had been in control of them are no longer in control :D
« Last Edit: July 27, 2016, 03:45:41 pm by Mr Farkyhars »
Banned reason: Nothing in. 7 years
Banned by: Iloveoral

LondonCity

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Guest
That's what I meant - though some might be re-purposed as offices. Either way, the people who had been in control of them are no longer in control :D


That is why the possibility is always there 

Offline Mr Farkyhars

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Banned
  • Posts: 1,337
  • Likes: 1
  •  
  • Reviews: 4

That is why the possibility is always there

I suppose in due course one or two of them might be occupied by women engaged in prostitution. But in order to become walk-ups, they'd need to be sub-let to gangsters :D
Banned reason: Nothing in. 7 years
Banned by: Iloveoral

LondonCity

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Guest
I don't know about those technicalities to be honest. But unless i am mistaken didn't the Albanians only control the walk up's from 2001 prior to that year there was no Gangsters controlling the trade there

Offline Mr Farkyhars

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Banned
  • Posts: 1,337
  • Likes: 1
  •  
  • Reviews: 4
Prior to that it was simply other gangsters who controlled the walk-ups; in the 50s and 60s it was the Maltese. Every so often they would be taken over by a new gang.
Banned reason: Nothing in. 7 years
Banned by: Iloveoral

Offline Vorteghan

I think there is more chance of an Indy setting up there. The walkups are under pressure.
The place is becoming more residential and even some of the restaurants are being squeezed upwards on their rents.

LondonCity

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Guest
Prior to that it was simply other gangsters who controlled the walk-ups; in the 50s and 60s it was the Maltese. Every so often they would be taken over by a new gang.


So basically it was extortion. There has never ever been a period in Soho's history where the WG and the flat owner are the only 1's making the money without any extortion?

Offline Mr Farkyhars

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Banned
  • Posts: 1,337
  • Likes: 1
  •  
  • Reviews: 4

So basically it was extortion. There has never ever been a period in Soho's history where the WG and the flat owner are the only 1's making the money without any extortion?

Not in living memory, I'm certain. But Soho was once a flourishing place for artisans and food-related trades, often with people living above the shop. In those days I reckon there wouldn't have been the spare space to devote to apartments for prostitution; so the Soho 'story' probably began in the late 19th/early 20th century.
Banned reason: Nothing in. 7 years
Banned by: Iloveoral

LondonCity

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Guest
Not in living memory, I'm certain. But Soho was once a flourishing place for artisans and food-related trades, often with people living above the shop. In those days I reckon there wouldn't have been the spare space to devote to apartments for prostitution; so the Soho 'story' probably began in the late 19th/early 20th century.

That's crazy. U gotta feel for the WG's

Offline Slartysmith

Not in living memory, I'm certain. But Soho was once a flourishing place for artisans and food-related trades, often with people living above the shop. In those days I reckon there wouldn't have been the spare space to devote to apartments for prostitution; so the Soho 'story' probably began in the late 19th/early 20th century.

Harris's List of 1788 includes, for example, ladies at 18 Old Compton St and several in Lisle St.  So it's not a modern invention.

LondonCity

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Guest
I have never been to Amsterdam but i just can't imagine them ever shutting down any of the walk up's there and if they did certainly not half of them

LondonCity

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Guest
2 very different situations but Westminster council demanded this happen.


Demolished Maida Vale Carlton Tavern must be rebuilt 'brick by brick', inquiry rules

Developers who knocked down a 1920s west London pub shortly before it was to be given listed status must rebuild it, an inquiry has ruled.
Westminster City Council told developer CTLX, which owns Carlton Tavern, it must rebuild the pub "brick by brick", after it was unexpectedly demolished.
CTLX had refused to do this and appealed the council's decision.
But a five-day inquiry by the Planning Inspectorate found in favour of the council.
'Ride roughshod'

Westminster councillor Robert Davis said he was looking forward to the Carlton Tavern being turned back into a "thriving community pub".
"This sends a clear message to developers across the country that they cannot ride roughshod over the views of local communities," he said.
The Carlton Tavern was demolished in April 2015, in breach of planning laws and in spite of the fact it was being considered for Grade II listing.

The council was given no prior warning of the demolition, which was not approved, and was done without proper health and safety procedures in place.
The Planning Inspector agreed that it was "highly likely that it would have been listed had it not been demolished", calling it a "rare public house", with "considerable importance for the community".
Historic England said they "intended to recommend the site for listing" because it was "remarkably well-preserved" from its interwar days.
Westminster council had rejected an application for redevelopment on the site in January of the same year, which was also upheld by the inspector.

External Link/Members Only




Offline Mr Farkyhars

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Banned
  • Posts: 1,337
  • Likes: 1
  •  
  • Reviews: 4
Harris's List of 1788 includes, for example, ladies at 18 Old Compton St and several in Lisle St.  So it's not a modern invention.

Fair enough :) I remember reading that milliners' shops were sometimes fronts for prostitution, so maybe those are examples..
Banned reason: Nothing in. 7 years
Banned by: Iloveoral

LondonCity

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Guest
Since we are kinda getting into the history were there any walk up's on Shaftesbury Avenue in the 90's and early 2000's?

Offline geordie44

I have never been to Amsterdam but i just can't imagine them ever shutting down any of the walk up's there and if they did certainly not half of them
Actually over the last 5 years the Amsterdam City Council HAVE been cleaning up a lot of the red light district. Dozens of the windows have been closed down and re purposed. This has been mianly in the narrow alleyways off the main canal streets (which was the best area in my opinion) The main tourist streets are still open, but there has been a big decrease in the windows. You can find mor einfo on Amsterdams RLD on External Link/Members Only if you want to research further.

Offline ralhar

there won't be any more walk ups opening anywhere... i'm not sure of the situation but i believe they need some weird entertainment or massage license... why they used to get it but not anymore i don't know but the political climate changed drastically during the 00's as well as various other local aspects...

there was during that time a very aggressive attempt by the council to close down sheperd market... the ones that survived did so because of a loop hole that related to the use of a property and if it had changed in the last decade... there are some documents available online if you google... also used to be some articles that explained what happened... i also remember talking to some of the maids and hookers about it...

i don't think they are all run under threat of violence but the maltese traditionally ran protection in soho... i have seen things going on in sex shops and in the 90's you easily spot all kinds of heavy weight villains up to no good in the area... i don't think they are around anymore...

notice how the chinese are allowed to run what are basically clip joints... its political.

in the 80's and 90's the west end was a very exiting place to visit even in the day time... only new york could beat it i reckon... i remember going down there with my mates just for kicks when i was about 14...

later on i used to head down to soho to buy records - in those days if you wanted some new music you had leave your house and go to a shop (unless you were happy to tape the radio with a coat hanger for an antenna that you would have to move around to get a good signal) - there were loads of famous record shops and on a saturday it would be heaving down there...

then in 1997 i attempted my first punt... and got clipped for £40 in tisbury court... i then somehow found myself in a really dodgy walk up all the way over on pollen street the other side of regent street... had a rush rush service off a black brazilian girl... probably the most dismal fuck of my life...

but i reckoned it was the most fun i had ever had on a saturday afternoon and repeated the experience over and over for many years to come... except for the clip - once bitten etc but i used to see those girls around soho up until quite recently... no point in being angry or trying to get your money back... i needed to learn that lesson... ive seen guys getting robbed for hundreds back in those days... i wonder what those clippers do for money now... a couple of sundays ago i saw a dude they used to call "captain" he always used to wear a trench coat even in the summer... and shades at night... he was cool in the 90's but hes a fucked up old crack head now... scrounging for change and picking up dog ends from the floor...

i remember pimps used to stand around down by the mcdonalds on grt windmill street... they used to pick out tourists and offer them a girl then take them up to tisbury court and brewer st...

ive seen junkies smoking crack and smack in broad daylight... i remember rent boys and perverts hanging round picadilly circus... homeless kids from centrepoint used to clip old guys looking for young guys...

i remember seeing to local crackheads walking through the back streets with a huge wide screen tv in broad daylight and nobody even blinked... everybody minding there own business

i dont think there were any walk ups on shaftsbury avenue but there used to be loads around moor st... there always be fights there because the crackheads ripping people off for drugs... selling them fake weed or fake coke or whatever... or just running off with the money or "back in a minute mate" some out of towner would think he's buying something off one guy on his own then when he tries to get his money back there is like 5 or 6 of them...

but peter st and berwick st was the centre of it all...

it was just like you see in the films...

LondonCity

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Guest
To be fair though the best weed i ever smoked in my life was from Soho

LondonCity

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Guest
They should have kept at least 2 walk up's on each street 2 on Old Compton Street, 2 on Brewer Street, 2 on Berwick Street, 2 on Blore court, 2 on D'arblay Street for some of these streets to not even have 1 walk up remaining  is very sad. If they had did this it would have been reasonable like Old Compton Street had 8 or whatever the council/police could have looked at it like u don't need 8 in one street or even 3 since we plan gentrification on Soho but we will let 2 remain there and on each street

LondonCity

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Guest
@ ralhar u said there is a law that was put in place where a walk up needs a special sex license to open now. But i came across this tweet, during the raids the Tisbury Court walk up was shut down but then it was allowed to re open then suddenly was shut down again around 2015. How come the license thing didn't affect this walk up re opening again and the few others that were allowed to re open after getting shut down in the raid


External Link/Members Only

Offline JamesKW

@ ralhar u said there is a law that was put in place where a walk up needs a special sex license to open now. But i came across this tweet, during the raids the Tisbury Court walk up was shut down but then it was allowed to re open then suddenly was shut down again around 2015. How come the license thing didn't affect this walk up re opening again and the few others that were allowed to re open after getting shut down in the raid


External Link/Members Only

In the longterm property developers will price all the existing clubs,walkups etc out of SOHO,I am hoping that Brexit will make London less favourable to foreign investors and put the property speculators out of business.Then hopefully we can get back to the fun again.
If this is not the case the arty farty types,walkups,clubs will end up having to move out to Dagenham like everyone else has been forced out by investors and middle class hipsters.

In the States I was reading that property speculators were purchasing land and then encouraging arty farty types to move into those areas be offering minimal or no rents knowing that by attracting these people will lead to middle class hipsters following later and then they will be able to coin it,(a bit like Notting Hill,Islington,Dalston etc)then they chuck out the arty fartys.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2016, 02:11:46 pm by JamesKW »

Offline ralhar

its a complex subject and there are multiple things that have contributed... the walk ups have gone, soho as a RLD has gone and the west end in general has been cleaned up to the point that it has lost all its spark and character... all the street life has gone... no tolerance no integration... even the queers have been squeezed out really if you look at gay town now its mainly cake shops and mixed cafes... not really hardcore queer like it used to be around old compton st then mixed on the edges... its just mixed or hardly even queer

it started with CCTV around '99 or 2000... then zero tolerance approach by the police towards the street life... no surprise really you could get any substance you wanted if you knew how... open drug dealing open drug taking... phones and bags getting snatched all over the place... clipping...

then loads of bad press about trafficking and pimping... some of it true some of it not...

so in the 00's it got political with certain female politicians going on the warpath and doing a very good job of promoting themselves at the same time as oppressing the very women they were claiming to be trying to protect... strange way of protecting victims of crime by taking their money and taking pictures of them if you ask me... saying they've been trafficked then deporting them back into the hands of traffickers...

this is when the council got involved and started doing what they could to get the properties out of the hands of the sex trade...

but its all right for starbucks to employ foreigners and not pay tax apparently...

then the raymond family decided they wanted to clean up their money and the police agreed to help them which is when you had the raids...

add to all that the changing face of retail (punters shopping for sex online)... then the less talent you have working the walk ups the less punters go down there and vice versa... downward spiral...

I dont know what the rules are about posting links but the license thing i think i first read about on a site called betedenuit.blogspot.

you will have to dig but there is a message in there somewhere from a walk up hooker who gives a brief explanation of how the walk ups are managed...

google 50a shepherd market to see the planning document I talked about before

tisbury court was a landgrab but i think they used anti social laws to get them out...

Offline ralhar

just reread your post london...

its not a law that they put in place...

to get permission to use a property for what ever you need it to have the relevant planning permission... the soho walk ups have permission to be used for certain activities... if the council can block it or revoke it then it can't be used for shagging and if it is the police can raid...

thats probably over simplified or maybe incorrect somehow but its the basic understanding that I have from what I have read online and talked about with various characters in the walk ups...

LondonCity

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Guest
just reread your post london...

its not a law that they put in place...

to get permission to use a property for what ever you need it to have the relevant planning permission... the soho walk ups have permission to be used for certain activities... if the council can block it or revoke it then it can't be used for shagging and if it is the police can raid...

thats probably over simplified or maybe incorrect somehow but its the basic understanding that I have from what I have read online and talked about with various characters in the walk ups...


I hear that

LondonCity

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Guest
Ralhar what is your view on the latest raids of the Chinese massage parlours?

Offline Mr lovepants

Are there still any walk ups?
If so where are they?

Offline Mr Farkyhars

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Banned
  • Posts: 1,337
  • Likes: 1
  •  
  • Reviews: 4
Banned reason: Nothing in. 7 years
Banned by: Iloveoral

Offline ralhar

Ralhar what is your view on the latest raids of the Chinese massage parlours?

didn't follow too closely and don't use them myself but things had got a bit too open probably... slutty milf chinese dressed like an explosion at an Anne Summers shop walking around all over the place openly asking men if they are looking for a massage...

having said that you have to wonder if this just a continuation of what started with the walk up closures...

I doubt very much that protecting vulnerable women was the priority...

they are probably paving the way to reducing china towns footprint drastically... just leave a few expensive restaurants and some street furniture for tourists...

its starts with misinformation by negative press and some supposedly urgent and unavoidable action then little by little bit by bit they get away with more and more... after a couple of headlines it gets less and less interest...

nobody really cares or pays attention they are too busy watching x factor and blaming immigrants for everything...

punters can't say anything about any of this stuff because it will just get made to look like making excuses for having sex with trafficked women or whatever...

i see that chinese indoor market has been closed down now... there used to be a load of council flats above... not sure if they are still there... lets see what happens... no prizes for guessing luxury apartments that only millionaires can afford... ironically most of those millionaires will be foreigners as well I bet.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2016, 08:14:04 pm by ralhar »

LondonCity

  • Age Check : 18+
  • Guest
I believe a lot of the WG's working today have helped kill the fun vibe of Soho. We can talk about the gentrification causing the closure of so many of the walk up's and it as a red light district in general. But WG's with a shitty attitude play's a role to. if a WG has a shitty attitude do they believe a customer is going to return to see her, do they believe he is going to recommend her to a mate? do they believe if she ever decides to go independent they will decide to book her?