Trump sticks it to the WHO and China

[AnthG]

Apologies, so this isn't about the free movement of people and providing them with opportunity for peaceful existence away from areas of conflict this is about the incompetent (or conspiratorially machinated) managing of their integration into the hosting peaceful nation.  Which is not just down to one leader, albeit she's accountable, it's about a cohort of influencers, public and private, elected or not, that have compromised the welcome and settling of these peoples.

A good example of what I am saying is, a good many of the stabbings in London are carried out by Somalian gangs. The press don't state that fact as its deemed to be "racist".

However, one curious point is how they are actually in the UK to commit the stabbings. We offered asylum to Syrians. Europe offered asylum to Syrians. However people from all over the middle east and Africa who are not in need of Asylum came on the boats and not a single country stopped it and allowed everyone to say.

And a direct consequence of this is stabbings in London has gone up to record levels. More people were stabbed in London than any other city in the world at one point.

And nobody is allowed to even say who is doing it as it will show a serious failing with the system.

And seriously before anyone goes "that's disgusting him claiming that" look it up, it is largely Somalian gangs who are carrying out the vast number (though not all) of the stabbings.

[Hobbit]

What authority does WHO have?  They are a recommending body in these matters.  There's no massive army of medical staff solely at their command that supra-nationally intervenes in the well-being of any other society.
I don't see WHO tents across the towns of our nation.  I don't see their branded medical supplies in media coverage of our hospitals and care homes.

They echo, delayed or otherwise, the local findings of any on the ground, immediate responders.

So why were they being paid shit loads of money? For advising? I could advise China for half of what WHO were being paid and do a better job. 

[LLPunting]

I can tell you with 100% accuracy that the first thing they are 'taught' to say is...

I'm aged 15.....  triggering an age assessment; as long as they are not visibly over 21. Even then, the likelihood is age assessment interview(s).... referral to CS and allocation of a solicitor/and later, in Court, a barrister...

Quite right too. Everyone should have access to appropriate legal representation. My point being; they are all coached to say they are of child age....

It appears you are in RL someone wholly deserving of respect for the service that you provide.  So you are confirming that these unfortunate people are forced by circumstance to lie about themselves in order to secure the humanely proper representation whilst being subjected to the "over-zealous" rigours or necessary and prudent "processing"?
What could be done to make better of this mess?

[LLPunting]

A good example of what I am saying is, a good many of the stabbings in London are carried out by Somalian gangs. The press don't state that fact as its deemed to be "racist".

However, one curious point is how they are actually in the UK to commit the stabbings. We offered asylum to Syrians. Europe offered asylum to Syrians. However people from all over the middle east and Africa who are not in need of Asylum came on the boats and not a single country stopped it and allowed everyone to say.

And a direct consequence of this is stabbings in London has gone up to record levels. More people were stabbed in London than any other city in the world at one point.

And nobody is allowed to even say who is doing it as it will show a serious failing with the system.

And seriously before anyone goes "that's disgusting him claiming that" look it up, it is largely Somalian gangs who are carrying out the vast number (though not all) of the stabbings.

So these Somalis had every intent from their arrival to rampage and stab?  Were they offered any assistance to find gainful education or employment?  Was their any mandate on their integration?

I'm happy to believe that Somali criminals got in but kindly link to your source for your conclusion.

In the areas I've lived in around London this past decade I recall zero reporting of local stabbings by Somalis, not to say they didn't happen.  But just as there's gang trouble around other ghettoised areas of the country was this activity pervasive throughout the country?

Moreso than the blight of "County Lines", moped-mounted theft, ram raiding, burglary by South American criminal tourists, etc?

[AnthG]

So you are confirming that these unfortunate people are forced by circumstance to lie about themselves in order to secure the humanely proper representation whilst being subjected to the "over-zealous" rigours or necessary and prudent "processing"?
What could be done to make better of this mess?

They are lying to get something they don't deserve. This is generally called Fraud.

The system exists so people deserving can get help they need. If people are not deserving, they should not just lie.

In the UK it has been made practically impossible to get legal aid for any case now. One of the very small few still entitled to legal aid, is immigration legal help. A single case can go up to hundreds of thousands of legal costs. And if people are lying to get support they don't deserve, we are going to run up to many millions, on legal costs that cannot in the long term be funded.

[AnthG]

So these Somalis had every intent from their arrival to rampage and stab?  Were they offered any assistance to find gainful education or employment?  Was their any mandate on their integration?

But if too many people arrive, then it's impossible to integrate. And all that happens is ghettos develop and people stick with their own and thus things like this happen.

Every government has promised to bring immigration down to 10,000 per year as that is the level where integration can seemingly happen. And not the current numbers we have.

I am not able to offer any other response than that, as I honestly don't know.

[LLPunting]

They are lying to get something they don't deserve. This is generally called Fraud.

The system exists so people deserving can get help they need. If people are not deserving, they should not just lie.



In the UK it has been made practically impossible to get legal aid for any case now. One of the very small few still entitled to legal aid, is immigration legal help. A single case can go up to hundreds of thousands of legal costs. And if people are lying to get support they don't deserve, we are going to run up to many millions, on legal costs that cannot in the long term be funded.

So these few thousands of genuinely distressed, dispossessed and desperate people have done wrong by a system.

And how about the many more nationals who fiddle their tax returns or benefits claims or take a sickie for their own luxury?
There's a matter of proportionality to the direction and amount of one's disgust.

The expense of justice is our fault, we choose to endorse or condone the remuneration of the legal professionals and all the associated bureaucracy just as we endorse, advance or tolerate footballers earnings or tube drivers pay deals or celebrity sponsorship or how much you pay the plumber at the same time as not supporting the remuneration of nurses or teachers.  The inflation of the cost of our living is not the reason you can condemn people trying to afford themselves the solace and protections of our expensive system.

[AnthG]

And how about the many more nationals who fiddle their tax returns or benefits claims or take a sickie for their own luxury?

They are committing fraud too. But would you say, they have to do it as the system is forcing them too?

Why is one group ok to commit fraud, and the other not.

There may be extenuating factors I haven't thought of though. I will admit, I am just a bit raw still from seeing Nigel Farage's video of the French Navy last week, during a virus lockdown pandemic, quite literally touring Migrants from the ports across the channel to be handed over to the UK Coast Guard to be booked and processed. Who when asked by Farage if they need any help just say "England" over and over again to him.

They are the ones who leave a bad taste towards the real people needing help

[LLPunting]

But if too many people arrive, then it's impossible to integrate. And all that happens is ghettos develop and people stick with their own and thus things like this happen.

Every government has promised to bring immigration down to 10,000 per year as that is the level where integration can seemingly happen. And not the current numbers we have.

I am not able to offer any other response than that, as I honestly don't know.

So you're denying compassion to the needy because we're incompetent and negligent in addressing our wholly rectifiable deficiencies in housing and services?
All our "don't haves" are a result of nimbyism (driven by whatever irrational or contemptible underlying prejudice) and capitalism.  You could create whole new communities built with the assistance of the very people they will come to shelter and serve.  That would skill them, educate them, integrate them and inspire them to endeavour for common good beyond just who they arrived with.

[LLPunting]

They are committing fraud too. But would you say, they have to do it as the system is forcing them too?

Why is one group ok to commit fraud, and the other not.

There may be extenuating factors I haven't thought of though. I will admit, I am just a bit raw still from seeing Nigel Farage's video of the French Navy last week, during a virus lockdown pandemic, quite literally touring Migrants from the ports across the channel to be handed over to the UK Coast Guard to be booked and processed. Who when asked by Farage if they need any help just say "England" over and over again to him.

They are the ones who leave a bad taste towards the real people needing help

I am not particularly condoning their actions.

Who would you condemn more, those who steal because they are in peril for their lives or those who steal because they don't fancy paying for something they don't need because they can't be bothered to earn the money to do so?

Who of those two types would actually be worthy of some consideration and compassion?

[David1970]

That might be what this thread is about; but the statement by AnthG was...

The most dangerous leader of the western world is Angela Merkel.
And you asked why he said this; neither you or he specifically linked it to Covid/WHO etc

The thread is about Trump and WHO and China, look at the title.

[AnthG]

The thread is about Trump and WHO and China, look at the title.

The original comment was made in response to this statement

Look at it this way - We have two clowns (Boris and Trump) in charge of two of the biggest countries in the world. Should I be worried...Fuck Yeah! 

The most dangerous leader of the western world is Angela Merkel.

You then asked why that was, knowing it likely would result in a response about something totally different to the WHO and China.

[David1970]

The original comment was made in response to this statement

You then asked why that was, knowing it likely would result in a response about something totally different to the WHO and China.

Hobbit post was a reply to my comment about how Trump had made a complete mess out of the pandemic in the USA. Hobbit pointed out it was not just Trump but also Boris who had made a mess of the pandemic in their countries.
You then posted say Merkel was worst, I as you to clarify your post without online and the Daily Mail conspiracy theories  I expected your answer to be about the subject being discussed, Trump, WHO and China.

[Marmalade]

They are the ones who leave a bad taste towards the real people needing help

I agree. A government's first responsibility is towards its own people, including people like nurses that aren't always fed and house properly. If a country has enough spare resources and teh will then it is good to help those in other nations. But if it is struggling to govern and support its own citizens...

[Thephoenix]

I thought this post was about The WHO and China.

Well I though The WHO were great and I've seen them live a couple of times.

Regarding China....Chinese scientists working on Coved19 vaccine have told Sky news they are'99%' sure it will be effective according to Luo Baishan a researcher at Sinovac, a biotec company in Beijing.
 They are currently in stage 2 trials with more than 1000 volunteers, and are now looking to start stage 3 trials possibly in UK, or wherever they can get enough volunteers, as there are now so few cases in China.

Don't know how reliable a source Mr Baishan is, but if China, (where the virus started and as yet still some doubt on it's origins), were to become the first country to produce a successful vaccine, how will that add to the conspiracy theories?

At least a good plot for the next  Austin Powers film.

[winkywanky]

Chinese scientists working on Coved19 vaccine have told Sky news they are'99%' sure it will be effective according to Luo Baishan a researcher at Sinovac, a biotec company in Beijing.
 
They are currently in stage 2 trials with more than 1000 volunteers, and are now looking to start stage 3 trials possibly in UK, or wherever they can get enough volunteers, as there are now so few cases in China.

Don't know how reliable a source Mr Baishan is, but if China, (where the virus started and as yet still some doubt on it's origins), were to become the first country to produce a successful vaccine, how will that add to the conspiracy theories?

Well if they supply the West and then we all start dropping like flies in a year's time, it might all come into sharp focus actually 

[Thephoenix]

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About time someone had the balls to do this. I don't see any other world leader doing it.

As regards the moaning about what he said about the looting (when the looting starts, the shooting starts) he was quite right. I've never understood why, when one of their own gets shot or something, certain groups have to go around torching and looting their own neighbourhood.

Of course, the piece ends with some grizzling about him 'leaving the podiium' without answering any of the media's no doubt inane questions. Like they matter more than the guy getting on with being President.

It's things like this that will cause him to get re-elected, and Trump Derangement Syndrome in the media to continue unabated.

Not sure where to put this post,  however despite it being taken over a bit by a game of tennis, the original title seemed to be about WHO and China.

My question:-.....Is Sir Richard Dearlove  (ex boss of MI6 ) an eccentric and ignorant conspiracy theorist when he says
that he believes the coronavirus pandemic 'started as an accident' when the virus escaped from a laboratory in China?

In an interview with The Telegraph he said he had seen an important new scientific report suggesting the virus did not emerge naturally, but was man made by Chinese scientists.

Full article in today's Telegraph where it poses some interesting questions on some new research in support of that theory.

Reading about Sir Richard's background, his comments may command some respect, even though they go against the majority of current scientific views on the origins.

I think we just need to keep an open mind with anything to do with China........ Don't you?

[Doc Holliday]

I think we just need to keep an open mind with anything to do with China........ Don't you?

Yes we do... but we are possibly never going to know the answer to this one. Currently the natural mutation is still favoured by the scientific majority, but the Chinese destroyed any possible forensic evidence at the wet markets as well as covering up activity within the laboratories generally. If the virus was genetically modified in a lab then it will almost certainly be an accidental leak (they do have history) but not part of any bio warfare. The case for the lab origin has unfortunately been undermined by the conspiracy theorists.

I searched for the document he is basing his comments on, only to then read that it is not available, as it has not yet been published? It has not been peer reviewed. It seems there is some controversy over it, as it has been rewritten several times and one of the original authors has asked for his name to be removed from it?

From what I have read, I gather all previous research which claims to prove the virus was from a lab, has not been conclusive when analysed. That does not mean it is incorrect just that it cannot be proved. This Norweigan/British paper claims it can prove it? Until it is published and reviewed we won’t know.

It is interesting that the authors have said that as a result of their findings, current vaccines being developed will not work, so they are working on their own version?

Why Dearlove wants to get into the headlines again just now I have no idea? He does like to stick his nose in though. He is also no fan of the Chinese and was very vocal about Huawei and 5G.

Is Sir Richard Dearlove  (ex boss of MI6 ) an eccentric and ignorant conspiracy theorist ...

There would be a certain irony given he was accused of being responsible for assassinating Princess Di. 

[cotton]

To the lay man it does seem quite a coincidence that the virus originated in Wuhan the location of the Wuhan Institute of Virology. Presumably the chinese have these bat markets all over the place but curiously the virus developed in Wuhan