France passes law criminalising punters

[lostandfound]

Hopefully this will remain "off topic" topic for punting in the UK.

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[webpunter]

I bet you that politicians & the french elite who have mistresses and set them up paying for houses / cars / holidays / beauty treatments / shopping / general living, will somehow be exempt.  They're still paying - just not by the hour.  Typical hypocritical froggie cunts

[punk]

Most be good for the German Brothels more customers.

[LanceVance]

I bet you that politicians & the french elite who have mistresses and set them up paying for houses / cars / holidays / beauty treatments / shopping / general living, will somehow be exempt.  They're still paying - just not by the hour.  Typical hypocritical froggie cunts

This. It is considered weird for a French President NOT to have a mistress or see high class WGs. It will be repealed on the quiet, probably when the Socialists next lose power.

[webpunter]

Most be good for the German Brothels more customers.

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[Ben4454]

Well done France. You have endangered the women you are trying to protect.

Again it is a moral crusade rather than one that is backed up by any real evidence.

[Dime]

I assume there are always loopholes similar to the UK, where escorts simply receive money for time and companionship and anything that happens behind closed doors is up to 2 adults.
Having said that, I always felt France was a bad place for punting meets which is surprising giving their population and global status. For example, I never saw any brothels in France unlike the the really good ones like Felina in Spain (Barcelona, Valencia) which clearly state on their website that they have the most up to date late licence for sexual services under Spanish law.

[myothernameis]

I assume there are always loopholes similar to the UK, where escorts simply receive money for time and companionship and anything that happens behind closed doors is up to 2 adults.

This is something I don't quite understand, if I see an escort, I'm paying for her time and  companionship, so how are the police and the courts going to deal with this; I wouldn't be surprised if France go the same way as some state in America

There will be female police officers who will pose as escorts; so originally we book the escort for time and companionship, a few minutes into your booking you ask for sex....your nicked

Now  what does the actual law allow, especially when it comes to entrapment, the police wont catch punters the normal way, they will have to work underhand

[G.Raff]

It's just crazy! 
It's a distorted vision using twisted logic.

What worries me is that many so called commentators point at the Swedish model (which the French cpied) and rate it as success 

[G.Raff]

See bottom of the article

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[ramrodronnie]

Brainless Frogs will create more problems than they think they will solve. If the UK follows suit? All that it'll achieve is to drive prostitution underground. Bloody Crazy.

IMO  It certainly won't do anything to protect the WGs!
 
I really struggle to understand what the stupid Frogs think they'll achieve?

Again IMO the New Zealand model is the best solution, and the best way to control sex working by decriminalising prostitution.

[HappyandLucky]

Like many French initiatives, it will no doubt be all talk no action. It will probably impact street walkers and perhaps parlours if they really apply the law, but most will go underground and advertise sports massage.

[a_test_person]

Hopefully this will remain "off topic" topic for punting in the UK.

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It's already in northern Ireland and Cameron advocating it here means it's only a matter of time imho

It won't receive much political scrutiny as politicians themselves must be so closely watched by the media they world steele to punt as freely as they once did

[Corus Boy]

Maybe we will get a small influx of French girls to usurp some of the EE's.

[vw]

Maybe we will get a small influx of French girls to usurp some of the EE's.

Maybe more likely the EE in France will come here and maybe some more unnecessary Muslims. 

[lostandfound]

It's already in northern Ireland and Cameron advocating it here means it's only a matter of time imho

It won't receive much political scrutiny as politicians themselves must be so closely watched by the media they world steele to punt as freely as they once did

Is he? I wasn't aware of that. It's not listed as a political position of his on Wikipedia.

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[Arley Hall]

It's odd that the French of all people have decided to go down this road. They've always prided themselves that they're free of American puritanism on sexual matters.

[LanceVance]

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Cameron said this after becoming PM

[MrMatrix]

Fortunately we don't always follow what the French do. Very strange that they have gone down this route of all countries.

[Redhead Lover]

Fucking cheese-eating surrender monkeys!

[justfornow]

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Disgruntled street girl saying that she will remove demand by making it illegal.
Demand comes from my dick and making prostitution illegal won't change my dick.

Making prostitution illegal is like making drugs illegal...you're not stopping anyone from doing it.
You're just giving away control to other people that aren't standing next to you on that moral high ground.

I know I'm preaching to the choir here but it's frustrating to see that shit.

[Bluefin]

Does anyone know how many punters have been prosecuted in Ireland since it became illegal?
Very fucking few I'll bet, totally unenforcable law passed just to keep certain cunts happy!

[Still-alive]

It won't last, the French national economy would collapse.

Anyway, isn't this why many escorts advertise that money exchanged is purely for the time spent with them, anything that happens during that time is simply the decisions of two consenting adults and nothing to do with the money changing hands.

Try getting a jury, French or otherwise, to convict anyone anyway!

[Punting Valley]

This topic is done to death , but if the ridiculous nordic model is being introduced here, it will affect street walkers and brothels more than your average AW private meets.

On a side note, the claim that "the money exchanged is for her time and companionship only" won't hold up in court if you were to be prosecuted.

[Fagin Again]

The report in the paper says that, in addition to the fine of up to €1,500, clients will be "ordered to attend classes on the plight of prostitutes".

You couldn't invent it – and, as others have observed, it's particularly depressing that the French (of all people) should be swallowing this tommy-rot.

So it's "Not tonight, Josephine!" ... or Marie-Claire ... or Odette ... or Gabrielle ... or Sylvie ...

[Itsnotshy]

I wonder what they will do if you refuse to pay the fine,jail you?If/when this law comes here I will do all I can to disobey it and not co operate with the lifestyle fascists.As someone who has Aspergers,plus a mild disabilty ,and is by most standards ugly obeying this law would amount to state enforced celibacy.

[Ben4454]

What about the protection of the CLIENTS? Why should WE be criminalised? Are we just thrown into the same catagory as those who commit assault and dangerous driving offences? What about the huge blackmail opportunities?

 ''You pay up now or I go to police that you saw me and I video'd you''

In feminism the clients are always in the wrong. The women are never at fault. This is just another win for Feminism and a government that white knights them and is ultimately controlled by them.

[TheNewSeeker]

In feminism the clients are always in the wrong. The women are never at fault. This is just another win for Feminism and a government that white knights them and is ultimately controlled by them.

That's too binary Ben, there are 'feminists' on both sides of the argument. See External Link/Members Only

[mrfishyfoo]

I am of the opinion that any crap like this simply cannot be enforced and I don't see how this would ever work in France. As for working in this country not a fucking chance  !!

All the hookers I have recently enjoyed  have called themselves escorts and I have paid for their time not to fuck them. Who am I to object when a nice girl drops to her knees  gets my cock out and gives it a good suck  without even taking a penny off me. I mean really !! In 25 years of punting I have never said to a girl "how much to fuck you love ??".

Watch this space as it turns to shit over there.

[Sir Lance-a-lot]

The report in the paper says that, in addition to the fine of up to €1,500, clients will be "ordered to attend classes on the plight of prostitutes".

I wonder how that would work out?  WE know that the abolitionist propaganda is complete and utter bollocks.  If I go to one of these classes, listen to what they have to say, then tell them that they have been misinformed - then what?

[Squire Haggard]

This disease is spreading. I hope that its not us next.

Napoleon had the right idea. France needs another one.

Then they had no way of fighting deadly STDs unlike now, which makes it all the more amazing.

''In 1804 Napoleon ordered the registration and bi-weekly health inspection of all prostitutes. State controlled legal brothels (then known as "maisons de tolérance" or "maisons closes") started to appear in Paris and in other cities and became highly popular throughout the century. By 1810, Paris alone had 180 officially approved brothels.''

''During the German occupation of France, twenty top Paris maisons, including le Chabanais, le Sphinx and le One Two Two, were reserved by the Wehrmacht for German officers and collaborating Frenchmen. The brothels flourished during this time, and Hermann Göring visited Le Chabanais, as is related in the 2009 two-volume book 1940–1945 Années Erotiques by Patrick Buisson.''

After WW2 the campaign against 'horizontal collaboration' won.

''After the war, Marthe Richard, a town councillor in Paris and former street prostitute, successfully campaigned for the closure of all "maisons". On 13 April 1946, the "loi de Marthe Richard" was passed with votes of the Christian-Democratic Party (MRP) and the Communist Party (PCF). The latter considered brothels to be "bourgeois". As a result, the legal brothels were closed. However, prostitution remained a legal activity, with only organization, "exploitation" (pimping) and its visual manifestations forbidden.
This ended a system in existence since 1804, which effectively made prostitutes less visible without suppressing the trade, and thus preservied "public morality". Prostitute registries were supposed to be destroyed, but police kept files till 1960. Roughly 20,000 women were affected by this law, and approximately 1,400 houses were closed. Many former brothel owners soon opened "hôtels de passe" instead, where prostitutes could keep on working, but the visibility of their activities was reduced.''

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Now they have fucked everything up. Lets hope they come over here in droves. 

[Agent W]

On a side note, the claim that "the money exchanged is for her time and companionship only" won't hold up in court if you were to be prosecuted.

In any case most of the damage to your marriage and career is already done by then.

Unfortunately it is inevitably easier for politicians to support this kind of regressive legislation than it is to oppose it, even though you'd think that in the 21st century we'd be beyond passing laws for the sake of moral improvement.

[Squire Haggard]

I wish that these people that want to dictate what millions of others do, and think, would go and boil their own heads in oil. If there's a mentality that needs changing, its their own.

From the article,

''The Socialist MP Maud Olivier, who championed the bill in France, said the aim was to “reduce [prostitution], protect prostitutes who want to leave it and to change mentalities”.

Just come over here in droves, girls. 

[Marmalade]

And Paris used to be such a lovely city for sex and perversions. 

You'd think that as a commie he'd have more of an eye for 'economics' -- certainly not something the French want either. He'd be better putting it in the job centres and solving the 'banilieu' problem. 

[Squire Haggard]

Our own unemployment rate is 5.8%, while in France its 10.2%. I dont think that the latest move is going to help matters.

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Unemployment in France, one of the highest in Europe.

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[S.X. MacHine]

Does anyone know how many punters have been prosecuted in Ireland since it became illegal?
Very fucking few I'll bet, totally unenforcable law passed just to keep certain cunts happy!

Seemingly there has been only one punter charged in Northern Ireland since the law was introduced last year.
The Norwegians are very zealous in enforcement and even have two man squads of 'cunt busters' as they are pleased to call themselves, to entrap punters. Their favoured technique is to have the management evict girls from hotels in the middle of the night, sometimes with temperatures of minus 20 degrees outside. One WG would have died if a previous punter hadn't taken her in.
It's more sinister than that; they tap mobile phones from what I gather.
My feeling is that if the 'Swedishmodel' were introduced here, it wouldn't be rigorously enforced.
The Scottish Police Service is very under resourced and try to concentrate on the worst stuff.
Oh, and the Norwegian cops aren't allowed into bedrooms, having to rely on bullying punters into confessing when they emerge.
Worrying, none the less.

[justfornow]

I wish that these people that want to dictate what millions of others do, and think, would go and boil their own heads in oil. If there's a mentality that needs changing, its their own.

(...)

This whole thing reminds me of fundamentalist Christian side of abortion debate. They want all of the children to be born but don't care what happens to them after.

Anti prostitution people talk about wgs leaving prostitution but they never say where they want them to go.
I actually hope it's hypocrisy. Because if it's genuine stance these people are fucking stupid.

[taplow]

Of course it's going to happen in the UK.  Don't worry about Rotherham, Rochdale and all the other places deemed unimportant, it's consensual sex that's the problem.  Idealistic nonsense, just what I'd expect. 

[Sir Lance-a-lot]

I have actually seen one abolitionist argue that it wasn't consensual because some women had to do it to survive, it wasn't a free choice.

In the next paragraph, she hoped that criminalising punters would drive prostitutes out of business.

She didn't seem to realise what she was actually saying - that she didn't want prostitutes to survive.  Presumably she wanted them to die.

[punk]

Our own unemployment rate is 5.8%, while in France its 10.2%. I dont think that the latest move is going to help matters.

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Unemployment in France, one of the highest in Europe.

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Thats not saying much,the whole of E.U is in the pan not including Germany.

[fastnet]

The Frenchman will ignore any law he's not happy with

[rathbone]

Can't help but think that (provided the Schengen arrangement doesn't collapse) the new law will be ineffective in reducing/ eliminating punting.  If you're only an hour or two from the Netherlands, Belgium or Germany then you'd just nip across the border to a more "liberal" country, rather than risk a criminal record.

[Fagin Again]

This whole thing reminds me of fundamentalist Christian side of abortion debate. They want all of the children to be born but don't care what happens to them after.

Anti prostitution people talk about wgs leaving prostitution but they never say where they want them to go.

Excellently put!  Wise and important points on both issues, and I've never seen them made elsewhere.

[MrMatrix]

Seemingly there has been only one punter charged in Northern Ireland since the law was introduced last year.
The Norwegians are very zealous in enforcement and even have two man squads of 'cunt busters' as they are pleased to call themselves, to entrap punters. Their favoured technique is to have the management evict girls from hotels in the middle of the night, sometimes with temperatures of minus 20 degrees outside. One WG would have died if a previous punter hadn't taken her in.
It's more sinister than that; they tap mobile phones from what I gather.
My feeling is that if the 'Swedishmodel' were introduced here, it wouldn't be rigorously enforced.
The Scottish Police Service is very under resourced and try to concentrate on the worst stuff.
Oh, and the Norwegian cops aren't allowed into bedrooms, having to rely on bullying punters into confessing when they emerge.
Worrying, none the less.

With the current state of the economy and the reduction in budgets driven by the Government they will view enforcement as a low priority and I agree with S.X.M that it wouldn't be rigorously enforced. Police would want to put their resources into real crime, well hopefully they would.
The Norwegians method of entrapment is a worrying alternative if the UK used it. Hopefully we are more enlightened.

[Sir Lance-a-lot]

As I recall, the Northern Ireland punter was caught up in a brothel raid.  I imagine that's the most likely scenario in which punters will get caught.  POCA gives police a cash incentive to raid brothels, and any punter unlucky enough to be in there at the time would get nicked rather than being allowed to leave.

[Itsnotshy]

When this is introduced to uk some punter is going to have to martyr  themselves.Get the support of WG,openly have sex,get arrested,refuse to pay fine,and wait for the fascists to jail them.If imprisoning a previously law abiding citizen for having adult consensual sex does not prick the conscience of the nation then 'say goodnight to the folks Gracie'.As a single retired man,stubborn as hell,who will not kowtow and is naturally self destructive I might be forced to give it a go.

[unclepokey]

The French police have not the resources to deal with this anymore than PC Plod over here has.
And visit any little cornershop hardware store in France and still you can purchase sodium chlorate weedkiller and lead-heavy cardinal floor polish. They happily ignore most EU law as well as their own. It's a total farce.
Uncle Pokey

[Technicolour_trilby]

With the current state of the economy and the reduction in budgets driven by the Government they will view enforcement as a low priority and I agree with S.X.M that it wouldn't be rigorously enforced. Police would want to put their resources into real crime, well hopefully they would.

I'm not so sure about that, when things are stretched, the police will put their resources into what's EASY not what's important. Precisely why the motorist gets it in the neck.

[Arley Hall]

The logical extension of the argument made by the pro-criminalisation lobby is that we should prosecute people who buy jeans, t-shirts, trainers etc. After all, many of those items of clothing are made in sweatshops in the Third World, with pitiful health and safety records etc. But we don't throw the baby out with the bath water in cases like like that. Instead we try to make sure that we buy ethically - put pressure on manufacturers - etc etc etc. The different approach proposed in the case of prostitution shows that the real motivation of the criminalisers is not concern about the welfare of the workers, but rather a puritanical desire to limit the pleasure that men get out of life.

On a slightly different note - should we really be bigging up the notion that a significant minority (or perhaps even a majority) of the girls are pimped? This doesn't really ring true from the experience I've had with girls over the past few years. In any case - true or false - it's something that could be used against us by our opponents.

[Agent W]

Exactly - I read a horrific article about trafficking in the fishing industry (poor guy from the Philippines signs up for a job on a Belfast-registered trawler, arrives to have passport taken away, poor conditions, long hours, no safety standards etc). Do they make it illegal to pay for fish and threaten to make offenders attend a training course on the plight of the fisherman?

It's a sickening puritanical urge to control other people's sex lives.