HIV in female sex workers less than 1%

[SUMO61]

I'm off for my STI test tomorrow (split condom) so I thought i'd correlate the very low risk advised by the GUM clinic to some facts. Some interesting reading here, that supports the advice I've been given many times by GUM professionals, namely:

HIV in female sex workers is very low and miniscule for non-drug injectors across Europe.

Of the cases, most in the UK are Black/ African origin.

HIV as mainly amongst homosexual males.

External Link/Members Only


External Link/Members Only


Might be worth posting these in the Wiki, as it's always a hot topic on here and there are some interesting facts about other STIs.  In short, it appears if you're having sex with a white, British sex worker, who doesn't inject drugs, you are at a very low risk.

[Donnie69]

I have to agree that Country of origin and drug use does affect the risk of anyone contracting HIV or other STIs.

Women who have lived in certain parts of Asia or Africa where HIV is rampant surely must be more likely to have HIV.  I would be even more cautious with someone considered higher risk.  I have seen a couple of Thai prossies over the years, but never a black prossie.  I do want to try a black women one day, but I would be extra choosy.

Also don't forget shemales are more likely to have HIV if they have sex with gay men.  Heroin addicts are also more likely to have HIV, as far as I know I've never seen anyone who injected drugs.  HIV rates in prossies are quite high in Romania, which along with lack of healthcare makes Romanian prossies high risk too!  Another reason to avoid.

At the moment I only see white British women.

[holland]

These are just statistics. The only way to prevent it is to always use the condom. HIV doesn t look at your passport. There are group in the original country that are more subject to have it but when they reack uk they mix up with the locals. So you cant feel reassured if you fuck just british. The condom is the only reassurance with anybody no matter where thay are from.

[SUMO61]

These are just statistics. The only way to prevent it is to always use the condom. HIV doesn t look at your passport. There are group in the original country that are more subject to have it but when they reack uk they mix up with the locals. So you cant feel reassured if you fuck just british. The condom is the only reassurance with anybody no matter where thay are from.

I agree with you but condoms sometimes break, as happened to me.  Lots of punters have OWO. The statistics show that as a demographic group, prostitutes across Europe form a tiny proportion of HIV cases and in Western Europe, virtually nil (look at the Germany stats, where brothels are regulated and legalised) It's a recent study and may be helpful for some on here to know, given the amount of threads that appear on the topic.

So, in the event of a condom break and probably those who practise OWO, I think we can draw some conclusions from the studies.

[lostandfound]

I read a leaflet in a GUM clinic recently which warned that having sex with people from Russia represents a particular risk.  (I know no more about any Russian issue, or non-issue, than that!).

[Marmalade]

I read a leaflet in a GUM clinic recently which warned that having sex with people from Russia represents a particular risk.  (I know no more about any Russian issue, or non-issue, than that!).

Interesting. Though if I were punting in Russia I think the risk I would worry (rightly or wrongly -- never been there) would more likely be her pimps or hardemen.

There's a short guide to nationalities here:
External Link/Members Only

And a perspective on stds (that seem to get far too many threads IMO) here:
External Link/Members Only

Whether a girl looks after herself is probably the biggest factor. Anyone that might be trafficked and unaware of the free services might be more of a risk. But risks are generally very small anyway. I think common sense and instinct are good guides. If you're sexually active with a wife or partner you want to take more precautions to see you don't pass on gonny or minor things, and everyone wants to take precaution against HIV even though the risk is incredibly small, simply as it is more serious than the other diseases.

These endless questions about stds are mostly paranoia from newbies to punting. Not useless -- everyone has to get into good habits -- but overanalysing can get monotonously counterproductive.

[Steely Dan]

I added this to the Wiki. (under new to punting)

But as a gentle reminder, anyone can add stuff to the Wiki.

[Marmalade]

I added this to the Wiki. (under new to punting)

But as a gentle reminder, anyone can add stuff to the Wiki.

You seem to be the mainstay though Steely. Lots of first class work. I'm forever finding new pages there.

[SUMO61]

I added this to the Wiki. (under new to punting)

But as a gentle reminder, anyone can add stuff to the Wiki.

Much appreciated

[hockogrockle]

I wonder what the risk of Hepatitis B is? I had a routine GUM check-up a couple of months ago, not having had one for ages. 100% clear. However, when I said I had been having sex with prostitutes they started me on a Hep. B course "just in case".  I've had two injections, and will need a third in the summer. I don't mind. It's free, and if it helps to improve my state of sexual health that can't be bad.

[LL]

I'm off for my STI test tomorrow (split condom) so I thought i'd correlate the very low risk advised by the GUM clinic to some facts. Some interesting reading here, that supports the advice I've been given many times by GUM professionals, namely:

HIV in female sex workers is very low and miniscule for non-drug injectors across Europe.

Of the cases, most in the UK are Black/ African origin.

HIV as mainly amongst homosexual males.

External Link/Members Only


External Link/Members Only


Might be worth posting these in the Wiki, as it's always a hot topic on here and there are some interesting facts about other STIs.  In short, it appears if you're having sex with a white, British sex worker, who doesn't inject drugs, you are at a very low risk.

I don't think so.  What if that white British sex worker has a boyfriend who is in one of the two highest-risk groups (men who have sex with men and people in the Black African community)?  And how would you know that she doesn't inject drugs?  Not all heroin addicts look like zombies with bruised arms!  I can understand your need to put your own mind at rest - and I hope you've not caught anything nasty but let's not encourage anybody to be complacent about the risks.  The best advice to post on the wiki is for people to practice safe sex to minimise the risks of STIs and to seek professional advice in person (not on a forum) if they find themselves in a predicament like the one you're in.

[Donnie69]

HIV rates vary by great amounts.  Some countries in Africa have HIV rates of 20-25%.
Clearly if you punt (using condoms) with someone who comes from a country with very high HIV rates, the risk should a condom break is much greater.

 
At the GUM clinic they always ask if you've had sex with someone abroad or from abroad.

   

[pewpewpew]

1 in a million or 1 in a billion doesn't matter. There's still a chance. And if it happens you're not going to say "Well I took my chances". You'll be saying "oh fuck what have I done".

[FootieMadJonny]

I'm off for my STI test tomorrow (split condom) so I thought i'd correlate the very low risk advised by the GUM clinic to some facts. Some interesting reading here, that supports the advice I've been given many times by GUM professionals, namely:

HIV in female sex workers is very low and miniscule for non-drug injectors across Europe.

Of the cases, most in the UK are Black/ African origin.

HIV as mainly amongst homosexual males.

External Link/Members Only


External Link/Members Only


Might be worth posting these in the Wiki, as it's always a hot topic on here and there are some interesting facts about other STIs.  In short, it appears if you're having sex with a white, British sex worker, who doesn't inject drugs, you are at a very low risk.

It doesn't matter how "low risk" it is, barebacking prossies and punters as scum, simple as. They don't care about what they could be spreading, neither do punters who do it. It takes one time to catch HIV for gods sake! Why the fuck would you risk yourself like that just because it "feels better" ?

I don't know why you're even sharing this information. To try and make it seem not as bad? And so others will think "I knew it wasn't that bad" makes no sense...

[RimJobBob]

Interesting stats but as has been mentioned it only takes 1 time. That said, I have heard that HIV is actually pretty hard to catch.
For the record, I do go for OWO but wouldn't dream of BB or seeing a girl that offers this service. I have however had a few condoms split etc. The feeling of 'what if' is not nice.

[holland]

From my understanding hiv it's difficult to catch even bareback pussies because of this (do your own reading)
1- our penis has a limited permeable area (the foreskin) for the virus to go through and infect us.
2- even the foreskin has layers of defence against viruses to prevent the virus enter the blood flow.
From my understanding the risk of catching hiv through liking a pussy it's practically just theoretic and same for owo.
Conclusion: it is difficult but it's possible so using the condom is the only way.

[Arley Hall]

I imagine the risk is not that much different if you have unprotected sex with a random non-WG - but folks tend to be less worried about that for some reason. Or are they? I don't really know TBH because I'm too old to be doing it with civvies!

I remember years ago ringing up a GUM clinic because I was worried. The response from the guy on the other end of the line was (a) by all means come in and get tested, but (b) you're probably OK though because she was a prostitute!

[maxxblue]

From my understanding hiv it's difficult to catch even bareback pussies because of this (do your own reading)
1- our penis has a limited permeable area (the foreskin) for the virus to go through and infect us.
2- even the foreskin has layers of defence against viruses to prevent the virus enter the blood flow.
From my understanding the risk of catching hiv through liking a pussy it's practically just theoretic and same for owo.
Conclusion: it is difficult but it's possible so using the condom is the only way.

What about people without a foreskin, such as Jews and Muslims and 90% of Americans?

HIV is still transmitted to these populations, so not sure that your argument holds. 

[holland]

My opinion is that they put the sex worker in the 'at risk category' (so the punters) because  have sex with far different persons than the regulars. So statistically there is an increase of risk. At the same time most of the punters and the workers don't do bareback while the regulars baraback  most of the time. So I think barabacking its risky anyway.

[holland]

What about people without a foreskin, such as Jews and Muslims and 90% of Americans?

HIV is still transmitted to these populations, so not sure that your argument holds. 

HI..I think the circumcision just reduce the foreskin area. It doesn t remove it completely. They found out, in fact, the circumcision reduce the chances of catching hiv..
from the web
External Link/Members Only

[Marmalade]

My opinion is that they put the sex worker in the 'at risk category' (so the punters) because  have sex with far different persons than the regulars. So statistically there is an increase of risk. At the same time most of the punters and the workers don't do bareback while the regulars baraback  most of the time. So I think barabacking its risky anyway.

The health service as a whole comes into contact with more street prossies and drug addicts as they are the ones getting treated for unprotected sex, hiv, and getting battered by their pimps. Hence skewed statistics. Reading and verifying statistics is a specialist area.

All that can sensibly said on the subject has been said many times over on many threads. It is almost invariably a newbie of some sort wanting to discuss it rather that just wanting to look at evidence, decide on a personal level of risk/safety, and get on and punt.

I'd really like to see these threads locked after a few posts. They do fuck all except preach, scaremonger, and associate stds with prostitution in the eyes of non-punters who are trawling the forum.

[Diehard]

Who gives a fuck about statistics. It only takes one time to catch hiv if you are unlucky so even a one in a million chance is one chance too many.

Rubber up when fucking strangers, be it hooker or civvie regardless of colour or ethnicity.

I now won't even have owo anymore and rarely give oral. STDs are getting more prevalent and drug resistant so we have to protect ourselves as best we can. Besides the real feel Durex condoms are excellent anyway.

Split condom is a risk, minimise it by putting it on yourself rather than let hooker do it as too many don't know how to do it properly or have longer fingernails that increases chance of a tear as they apply it.

[Diehard]

1 in a million or 1 in a billion doesn't matter. There's still a chance. And if it happens you're not going to say "Well I took my chances". You'll be saying "oh fuck what have I done".

Plus 1000

[webpunter]

I agree with you but condoms sometimes break, as happened to me

So, in the event of a condom break and probably those who practise OWO, I think we can draw some conclusions from the studies.

Speaking with my private doc then a condom break - as long as you notice pretty sharpish - doesn't present much risk [for HIV].  I wouldn't recommend banging on regardless on the basis that there has been skin-on-skin contact, so you might as well.  Wrong.  Its all about the virus getting into your body.  Two routes:

1/ down your japper     2/ through small [invisible] cuts in the knob skin - can be brought about in vigorous / extended sex

Loads of other factors like:  other STIs / when the other person has got infected [viral load is higher if recent]

As i'm already sliding down the OWO slope [well at the bottom in reality] then have checked on the inter-web.  You'll have to be the unluckiest MF to get HIV from OWO.  Unless she's got mouth cuts / ulcers & bites your bell-end.  Or its red raw through you bashing it before visiting

Avoid skanky drug riddled hookers & especially those from Africa / high risk countries is a good start.  Other infections can be picked up much more easily with a bust nodder

[Nagilum]

I'm pretty sure HP would be delighted to read this 

[Nagilum]

As i'm already sliding down the OWO slope [well at the bottom in reality] then have checked on the inter-web.  You'll have to be the unluckiest MF to get HIV from OWO.  Unless she's got mouth cuts / ulcers & bites your bell-end.  Or its red raw through you bashing it before visiting

There haven't been any instances of HIV infection among female receptive partners during unprotected oral sex. And there hasn’t been a single documented case of HIV transmission to an insertive partner (the person being "sucked") during unprotected oral sex, either among MSM or heterosexuals.

That is the essence of low risk activity. The negligible nature is acknowledge but the reality is different.

More info here.

External Link/Members Only

[smiths]

I'm off for my STI test tomorrow (split condom) so I thought i'd correlate the very low risk advised by the GUM clinic to some facts. Some interesting reading here, that supports the advice I've been given many times by GUM professionals, namely:

HIV in female sex workers is very low and miniscule for non-drug injectors across Europe.

Of the cases, most in the UK are Black/ African origin.

HIV as mainly amongst homosexual males.

External Link/Members Only


External Link/Members Only


Might be worth posting these in the Wiki, as it's always a hot topic on here and there are some interesting facts about other STIs.  In short, it appears if you're having sex with a white, British sex worker, who doesn't inject drugs, you are at a very low risk.

Sadly low risk isn't no risk so so called stats and figures only give an overall account, they don't obviously tell me what my risk is with a specific WG, and HIV is only one of many nasties that can be caught anyway of course.

[Horizontal pleasures]

I'm pretty sure HP would be delighted to read this 

read what? We are already into page 2 of this thread.....

[Nagilum]

read what? We are already into page 2 of this thread.....

The Opening post

[SUMO61]

There haven't been any instances of HIV infection among female receptive partners during unprotected oral sex. And there hasn’t been a single documented case of HIV transmission to an insertive partner (the person being "sucked") during unprotected oral sex, either among MSM or heterosexuals.

That is the essence of low risk activity. The negligible nature is acknowledge but the reality is different.

More info here.

External Link/Members Only

I like a man who reads things carefully and gets the point, unlike others, thank you Nagilum.

Which is, to say slowly for those who don't get it... according to experts, who produced these reports (not me and not you) there appears to is fuck all to minimum chance of getting HIV from sex workers in Western Europe, because only a tiny percentage of sex workers appear to have HIV e.g less than 1%. That was news to me until a couple of days ago and I've not read this data anywhere on this forum before.

I didn't write the reports, I didn't advocate not wearing condoms, or bareback sex at any point in my post. I just thought the facts about the tiny numbers of WGs might help cut through some of the myths.  Why the fuck would I post about a split condom if I was advocating bareback sex?

However, there appears to be many that believe WGs are rife with disease, when the truth appears somewhat different, so believe what you what want to believe

[Nagilum]

I like a man who reads things carefully and gets the point, unlike others, thank you Nagilum.

Which is, to say slowly for those who don't get it... according to experts, who produced these reports (not me and not you) there appears to is fuck all to minimum chance of getting HIV from sex workers in Western Europe, because only a tiny percentage of sex workers appear to have HIV e.g less than 1%. That was news to me until a couple of days ago and I've not read this data anywhere on this forum before.

I didn't write the reports, I didn't advocate not wearing condoms, or bareback sex at any point in my post. I just thought the facts about the tiny numbers of WGs might help cut through some of the myths.  Why the fuck would I post about a split condom if I was advocating bareback sex?

However, there appears to be many that believe WGs are rife with disease, when the truth appears somewhat different, so believe what you what want to believe

Indeed and breaking myths about infection is important.  This is why I love and advocate the POZ forum as essential reading on these topics. They deal with facts and nothing else. It is the go to place for information.

It's also important to post this information here, because maybe not now, but years down the line somebody will search for a similar topic and come across this thread.

[FootieMadJonny]

I'm pretty sure HP would be delighted to read this 

My thoughts exactly 

[Nagilum]

My thoughts exactly 

  oh no not this again!

[Marmalade]

HP is well aware of such materials, and has given his explanation elsewhere.

[FootieMadJonny]

HP is well aware of such materials, and has given his explanation elsewhere.

No, there was no explanation or him addressing the issues of HIV etc. Just that he liked it and wasn't going to stop

[Marmalade]

No, there was no explanation or him addressing the issues of HIV etc. Just that he liked it and wasn't going to stop

Yes there was and I read it. Probably before you joined. Everyone has the right to disapprove of bareback here. That is different to preaching one's ideas about safe sex to someone else. HP doesn't do that and in my opinion neither should you. If soneone's going to tell me what I can or can't do they can shove it up their arse.
 

[Nagilum]

Yes there was and I read it. Probably before you joined. Everyone has the right to disapprove of bareback here. That is different to preaching one's ideas about safe sex to someone else. HP doesn't do that and in my opinion neither should you. If soneone's going to tell me what I can or can't do they can shove it up their arse.
 

Agreed

To each his own. HP has made a decision to engage in that activity. He has weighed up the risks and being an adult he can do as he pleases. Provided no laws are being broken, it should be nobodies concern.

[Nagilum]

No, there was no explanation or him addressing the issues of HIV etc. Just that he liked it and wasn't going to stop

On a serious note, let this drop. It's bordering on bullying and harassment. Yes it's a forum, but I'm sure Admin won't take kindly to it.

Just let it go 

[FootieMadJonny]

On a serious note, let this drop. It's bordering on bullying and harassment. Yes it's a forum, but I'm sure Admin won't take kindly to it.

Just let it go 

The last thing I am is a bully and I've never harassed anyone! I have let it drop thank you sir 

[Marmalade]

The last thing I am is a bully and I've never harassed anyone! I have let it drop thank you sir 

Well thank fuck for that. There was never any danger of HP feeling bullied. Just of you being a bit of a cunt. 

[Horizontal pleasures]

Yes there was and I read it. Probably before you joined. Everyone has the right to disapprove of bareback here. That is different to preaching one's ideas about safe sex to someone else. HP doesn't do that and in my opinion neither should you. If soneone's going to tell me what I can or can't do they can shove it up their arse.
 

thank you Marmalade.
Mister footie, go back to the playing field or stadium where you will be happier.

[Horizontal pleasures]

Well thank fuck for that. There was never any danger of HP feeling bullied. Just of you being a bit of a cunt. 

actually I did feel bullied.

[FootieMadJonny]

thank you Marmalade.
Mister footie, go back to the playing field or stadium where you will be happier.

Oh for gods sake, you're a grown man HP! Please grow up and stop getting other members to fight your battles. Just leave it geezz

[FootieMadJonny]

actually I did feel bullied.

[Horizontal pleasures]

Oh for gods sake, you're a grown man HP! Please grow up and stop getting other members to fight your battles. Just leave it geezz

no, YOU leave it, stop trying to follow me and have the last word mister footie, a bully like all chanting footie hooligans.

[FootieMadJonny]

no, YOU leave it, stop trying to follow me and have the last word mister footie, a bully like all chanting footie hooligans.

For gods sake HP! You're now choosing to insult me? I'm not a "football hooligan" at all! And what's this about following you? It's a forum! Grow up and stop wining like a old baby 

[Horizontal pleasures]

The last thing I am is a bully and I've never harassed anyone! I have let it drop thank you sir 

Never harassed anyone? You have started sending me harassing private messages. Leave me alone please. I am not interested in football. You are not interested in bareback. A no score draw. The end.

[FootieMadJonny]

Never harassed anyone? You have started sending me harassing private messages. Leave me alone please. I am not interested in football. You are not interested in bareback. A no score draw. The end.

Admin please read my private messages. Once again accusing me of harassing him when I have tried to end this amicably with HP but he is not having any of it

[EnglishRebecca121]

guys stop airing you laundry in public, as much as i disagree with bareback comments like  from a member are just sad, hp is know for partaking in bb always has and always will and thats his choice so just bloody stop it !

[FootieMadJonny]

guys stop airing you laundry in public, as much as i disagree with bareback comments like  from a member are just sad, hp is know for partaking in bb always has and always will and thats his choice so just bloody stop it !

Exactly what I tried to do by sending a pm boo boo.