If the law changes, will you still punt?

[mikexxlong]

Even if they passed a law, that allowed roaming plod death squads to bust into anywhere suspected dealing in prostitution,
And all punters caught balls deep in a prossie, would be shot on sight,
Those with their Y fronts around their ankles about to punt get a public flogging & a life sentence of hard labour
And anyone found in the premises or in the immediate area gets a good shoeing of mister plod & outed via national media plus a huge fuck off fine that you couldn’t hope to pay off in your life time

Punters would still punt the desire or need is just to strong

To answer the Ops question, yes I would still punt but I would be a LOT more sneakier & careful

[Nagilum]

Cue NIK, not this old chestnut again.  The punter is not breaking the law in this situation, its the prossies but you would be advised not to lie to the police about your name if they raid the premises mid-punt.

Correct +1

[smiths]

Every time you punt in a parlour, or in a flat with more than one lady you (we) are breaking the law already.

No that's not correct. Only if the WG in a brothel was proved to have been underage and/or coerced/forced would the punter be breaking the law, and only if the WGs help run the brothel would they be breaking the law, its the pimp and any of his or her staff that ARE breaking the law. If there isn't a pimp and the WGs are simply sharing the premises because they freely choose to they COULD get done dependent on how the police view it, it still IS a brothel but they could just choose to tell the WGs to leave and not return to the premises, and to work alone in future.

Also, a brothel DOESNT have to have 2 or more WGs working out of it to be a brothel. It can still be a brothel if only 1 WG works out of it BUT at another time another WG works out of it, so the same premises where different WGs work each day is a brothel.

[WelshClipper]

Fascinating thread. My view is it is very unlikely for tory MPs to allow it to pass.

But as always, hope for the best, prepare for the worst 

Would be an interesting fallout where 17000 AW wgs suddenly faced with no customers who can legally see them. 

[benstokes]

does bonnie Scotland cum into this nonsense that probabily is unworkable ? the polis in Strathclyde are totally hopeless or should I state the polis in Scotland are totally pants.

[jcdmj12]

I'm sure the law will be 100% effective. I mean, drugs are illegal, and nobody takes those, do they? 

[jcdmj12]

Even if they passed a law, that allowed roaming plod death squads to bust into anywhere suspected dealing in prostitution,
And all punters caught balls deep in a prossie, would be shot on sight,
Those with their Y fronts around their ankles about to punt get a public flogging & a life sentence of hard labour
And anyone found in the premises or in the immediate area gets a good shoeing of mister plod & outed via national media plus a huge fuck off fine that you couldn’t hope to pay off in your life time

Punters would still punt the desire or need is just to strong

To answer the Ops question, yes I would still punt but I would be a LOT more sneakier & careful

Was going to say I'm not sure there is much punting in Saudi Arabia, but then you are allowed to marry 4 women and hit them with a stick if they don't shag you there, so probably not much call for it.

[robbie54321]

Unfortunately the MP who has instigated the enquiry is a Tory!

External Link/Members Only

A devout Christian apparently.

Why do some law makers look to make laws based on morality? It can't be up to the state to decide that someone willingly selling sex to someone who wants to buy it is classed as voilence against woman and is therefore a sex crime. Are laws there to protect the sensitivities of the law makers or to protect the people?
What shows the hypocrisy of a law like this is that the Porn industry will be unaffected. We can still watch people being paid to have sex on a screen and gratify ourselves legally but we can't do it ourselves unless we are making a film? People who watch porn but don't punt are as quilty as any punter. I assume Mr Burrows and his family and friends have never indulged in watching porn?
If so they are as guilty as anyone else of sex crimes
A pedophle is still guilty wether he makes a film of his activities or only watches the recordings of someone else doing it whilst gratifying himself. He may never actually do the deed himself but he is still guilty by watching and therefore encouraging other people to commit a crime.

Hopefully Mr Burrows will see how ludicrous this law would be

[smiths]

Unfortunately the MP who has instigated the enquiry is a Tory!

External Link/Members Only

A devout Christian apparently.

Why do some law makers look to make laws based on morality? It can't be up to the state to decide that someone willingly selling sex to someone who wants to buy it is classed as voilence against woman and is therefore a sex crime. Are laws there to protect the sensitivities of the law makers or to protect the people?
What shows the hypocrisy of a law like this is that the Porn industry will be unaffected. We can still watch people being paid to have sex on a screen and gratify ourselves legally but we can't do it ourselves unless we are making a film? People who watch porn but don't punt are as quilty as any punter. I assume Mr Burrows and his family and friends have never indulged in watching porn?
If so they are as guilty as anyone else of sex crimes
A pedophle is still guilty wether he makes a film of his activities or only watches the recordings of someone else doing it whilst gratifying himself. He may never actually do the deed himself but he is still guilty by watching and therefore encouraging other people to commit a crime.

Hopefully Mr Burrows will see how ludicrous this law would be

The why is to impose THEIR views on those of us that don't agree with them of course, people like this prick and the femi-nazis are on a crusade and hold the view that ALL WGs are victims whether they think they are or not, and ALL punters are abusers whether they think they are or not. Bollocks of course in reality.

[Jimmyredcab]

Every time you punt in a parlour, or in a flat with more than one lady you (we) are breaking the law already.

More absolute bollocks.

The punter is doing nothing illegal ----- unless it can be proven that the girls are working against their will or they are underage, I don't know of any examples of that happening.

[bensonhedges20]

I would stick to regulars only.

[bensonhedges20]

More absolute bollocks.

The punter is doing nothing illegal ----- unless it can be proven that the girls are working against their will or they are underage, I don't know of any examples of that happening.

There can be two or more girls in the flat. Only one may work at a single time. Thats my understanding

Exceptions for threesomes ofc

[LanceVance]

Unfortunately the MP who has instigated the enquiry is a Tory!

External Link/Members Only

A devout Christian apparently.

Why do some law makers look to make laws based on morality? It can't be up to the state to decide that someone willingly selling sex to someone who wants to buy it is classed as voilence against woman and is therefore a sex crime. Are laws there to protect the sensitivities of the law makers or to protect the people?
What shows the hypocrisy of a law like this is that the Porn industry will be unaffected. We can still watch people being paid to have sex on a screen and gratify ourselves legally but we can't do it ourselves unless we are making a film? People who watch porn but don't punt are as quilty as any punter. I assume Mr Burrows and his family and friends have never indulged in watching porn?
If so they are as guilty as anyone else of sex crimes
A pedophle is still guilty wether he makes a film of his activities or only watches the recordings of someone else doing it whilst gratifying himself. He may never actually do the deed himself but he is still guilty by watching and therefore encouraging other people to commit a crime.

Hopefully Mr Burrows will see how ludicrous this law would be

Don't be too surprised. As I have said elsewhere, while Labour's feminazis get most of the attention, you have quite a few bible-bashing curtain-twitchers on the Tory side who would gladly outlaw punting as well.

[Nagilum]

Well at least it will drive prices down 

[richie]

I went for a punt on Sunday. I walked straight past the two coppers in the car park, buzzed the flat door and was let in by a skinny little lass in a thong, bra and 6" stilleto's...

So would I quit punting if the law changed? Not a bloody chance as long as I still have my cock and balls 

[Aspen]

Don't be too surprised. As I have said elsewhere, while Labour's feminazis get most of the attention, you have quite a few bible-bashing curtain-twitchers on the Tory side who would gladly outlaw punting as well.

I don't trust any of them. Absolutely no-one involved with politics. They trade off all sorts of things they claim to believe in and therefore totally untrustworthy. Plus you never know what's in the pipeline.

Suddenly it happened that the Nordic model was brought into N.I. I didn't know until afterwards. And then apparently we had a near miss with the Modern slavery act. I don't know about anyone else but I don't have time to follow everything that's going on. I rely on forums, but there was no mention or warning anywhere that I saw. I also think it's very odd that someone would say that we are guaranteed that the Tories wouldn't bring any anti-punting legislation in. That doesn't compute at all, especially as it seems that it's a tory that is sponsoring(!) this so-called inquiry/fait accomplii.

Unless I have a regular, which I don't at the moment, it seems like it could be too risky not to go out of the country if they criminalised us. I've got too much to lose to risk being arrested, even if it's a remote possibility, and I am sure I'm not alone. I am single, so goodness knows what it would be like for those whose personal lives could get torn apart. I'm not jittery, just realistic. There's no sense in being pig headed and carry on as though nothing has changed. Lots of people got caught out when the drink driving laws hardened up, because they failed to modify their behaviour.

I think we need to keep a careful watch on what is going on, in the absence of actually being able to do anything about it.

[lostandfound]

I think the so called Snooper's Charter also plays into this area. For years we've been bombarded by spam email because the cost of sending one out is negligible. Once data has been collected the cost of searching it is, or will become in the not too distant future, negligible. And those searches will get smarter and smarter as Artificial Intelligence continues to improve.

[Jimmyredcab]

I think the so called Snooper's Charter also plays into this area.

Do you honestly think that GCHQ have nothing better to do than read your E-Mails asking Susie Q if she does anal.   

[lostandfound]

Do you honestly think that GCHQ have nothing better to do than read your E-Mails asking Susie Q if she does anal.   

I think one of us is being naive.

[Aspen]

I think one of us is being naive.

It stems from not understanding or not being aware of how databases work and how searches are automated and filtered.

[Jimmyredcab]

It stems from not understanding or not being aware of how databases work and how searches are automated and filtered.

GCHQ are more than welcome to read my E-Mails, I am sure they have plenty of time to spare after monitoring thousands of potential terrorists.   

[mikexxlong]

I don't trust any of them. Absolutely no-one involved with politics. They trade off all sorts of things they claim to believe in and therefore totally untrustworthy. Plus you never know what's in the pipeline.

Suddenly it happened that the Nordic model was brought into N.I. I didn't know until afterwards. And then apparently we had a near miss with the Modern slavery act. I don't know about anyone else but I don't have time to follow everything that's going on. I rely on forums, but there was no mention or warning anywhere that I saw. I also think it's very odd that someone would say that we are guaranteed that the Tories wouldn't bring any anti-punting legislation in. That doesn't compute at all, especially as it seems that it's a tory that is sponsoring(!) this so-called inquiry/fait accomplii.

Unless I have a regular, which I don't at the moment, it seems like it could be too risky not to go out of the country if they criminalised us. I've got too much to lose to risk being arrested, even if it's a remote possibility, and I am sure I'm not alone. I am single, so goodness knows what it would be like for those whose personal lives could get torn apart. I'm not jittery, just realistic. There's no sense in being pig headed and carry on as though nothing has changed. Lots of people got caught out when the drink driving laws hardened up, because they failed to modify their behaviour.

I think we need to keep a careful watch on what is going on, in the absence of actually being able to do anything about it.

Wise words

Politicians & their puppet masters are clever, sneaky under handed bastards and new acts & laws get passed all the time, without anyone really realising,
if the powers that be want it going though it will. Even if it means slipping it though in small parts so to speak or the acts name & wording will change etc. but the end result will be the same,
 
Only peoples vigilance& opposing said law changes, can hope to stop or more realistically, delay or a watered down softer version will come into effect.

Who knows why the fuck our “betters” do the things they do & what reasons they do it for, I don’t trust any off them liars and deceivers the lot of them only out for themselves

Regarding the Snooper's Charter & GCHQ etc. put it this way some technology and or its use that once was the privy of MI5 is now used by mister plod during some fairly run of the mill crimes. Given time & a few acts slipping in plod will have some real fucking scary technology at its disposal and plod will use it to justify its existence & next year’s budget etc.

[smiths]

It stems from not understanding or not being aware of how databases work and how searches are automated and filtered.

Whereas I think it stems from the I have nothing to hide so whats the problem thinking some people have. The problem for ME is that's not the point, I don't want the state or others putting their noses in my business, though I know they couldn't care less about that of course.

[tazz]

Given that George Osbourne used to see a dominatrix and we all know at least 100 MPs see prossies just dont get how the law can change. Also im sure lots of coppers fuck prossies and policie are far to busy with more serious crime. Also cant stop guys hoping over to Amsterdam, a German city or Prague where its perfectly fine.

[Nagilum]

Forget Politicians, even the Judges are seen prossies.

[jcdmj12]

Whether or not the Tories back a law, one good thing about them being in government is that they have cut public services back so far the plod don't have the resources to investigate anything except murder or terrorists. 

[Aspen]

George Osborne used to see a dominatrix

Evidence?

It's not that I think it's not possible, but I just wonder how you could be so confident as to lay it down as fact.

There are lots of urban myths that are not true and originate from bullshit.

[cockneybstrd]

Evidence?

It's not that I think it's not possible, but I just wonder how you could be so confident as to lay it down as fact.

There are lots of urban myths that are not true and originate from bullshit.

I would suggest that it stems from the Natalie Rowe book that because she ran supplied S/M escorts to a number of Geroge's 'Friends'.

Its not a giant leap of imagination that if a bloke is quite happy to hang out and snort coke with a dominatrix hooker who is seeing his friend that he might have tried it himself.

Though if I was obsorne I would have more ashamed when I was caught hanging out with Mandelson and Deripaska on a boat

[Aspen]

Its not a giant leap of imagination

There is a difference between imagination and fact.

Someone starts a rumour, and then others copy it and it then gets traded as fact. That can result in libel.

I'm all for having a joke at some tosser politicians expense, but when you're trying to make a judgement on what chances there are on them influencing particular law changes, and what if anything to do about it. I'd say it's a big advantage to base that judgement on real facts instead of what you'd like to think.

[charlie sheen]

GCHQ are more than welcome to read my E-Mails, I am sure they have plenty of time to spare after monitoring thousands of potential terrorists.   

 
Mobile phone operators and ISP's are required to store your communications data on their database for 2 years.  If you are suspected of a crime the local investigating officer can ask for an information request to see who you have been in contact with. If they want to see content they need to contact another higher up information commissioner. 

We are talking about local police, officer Dave from the Met, local councils and HMRC, so basic law enforcement who would be in charge of investigating regular crimes, that would include prostitution if punters were criminalized.  Of course this wouldn't "stop" anything but it does mean unless you are tech savvy enough you are leaving a potential evidence trail behind, which can be accessed by local police with a few emails if you were being investigated.

It's got nothing to do with terrorism, GCHQ or the security services, you are conflating the issues.

[WelshClipper]

We are talking about local police, officer Dave from the Met, local councils and HMRC, so basic law enforcement who would be in charge of investigating regular crimes, that would include prostitution if punters were criminalized. 

Slightly off topic but many Wgs submit income tax returns and pay taxes to the govt. This money presumably may be the money they have earned through escorting. i.e. selling sex to punters i.e. selling sex to erstwhile criminals

So the govt would receive tax from people who have received money from people who have illegally purchased sex

Irony ???

[Aspen]

So the govt would receive tax from people who have received money from people who have illegally purchased sex

Irony ???

Not really.

They confiscate money under the proceeds of crime act, and that gets re-cycled into the economy.

[WelshClipper]

Not really.

They confiscate money under the proceeds of crime act, and that gets re-cycled into the economy.

Agreed.

But some wgs do register as self employed, not sure actual wording probably service provider, then they file a self assessment and HMRC sends back a tax owed and they pay it every year. I actually chatted to one working girl about it, no different to any other 'trade'.

Under a law where punters are criminalised, HMRC would be receiving the same tax as before but it would be from earnings from 'criminals'.

 

[NIK]

Yes, if the law changes I will START punting again!
Now can we end this bollocks topic once and for all? 
They will NEVER stop prostitution.

[NIK]

many Wgs submit income tax returns and pay taxes to the govt.

I assume you know this because they have told you?   

The only one I dared ever to ask merely smiled enigmatically.

[WelshClipper]

I assume you know this because they have told you?   

The only one I dared ever to ask merely smiled enigmatically.

Yes, one definitely told me when I visited her, a well known wg in Northampton.   

I should add that I am a nosey bugger and this is a question I quite happily ask.

Of course they could be lieing I suppose. 

[myothernameis]

I assume you know this because they have told you?   

The only one I dared ever to ask merely smiled enigmatically.

There was an escort I met a few years back, just happened she was at school with me, and we talked about most things, including if she pays tax, which she did

She used her old profession as a masseur & health beauty assistant

[WelshClipper]

I wanted to add a bit more to this for the benefit of my fellow punters.

First, I am a nosey bugger and tend to ask lots of questions, but I didn't make notes, so it's difficult to provide actual examples. The only clear one I remember is the lady in Northampton. I am pretty sure some girls do it. I think CarlyG mentions it somewhere on her huge profile page page on AW.

Second, if punters are made criminals then it only takes a few to pay their taxes from proceeds and HMRC is 'living off the avails..... '

I did read, and if I find it again I will post the link, that the escort business is worth billions to the government, especially when you include all the agencies based in London and other large centres.... Surely this could also be classified as HMRC benefiting from criminal activity if the law changes.....

Rant over, I provide this solely as a point of view nothing more.

[Jimmyredcab]

Agreed.

But some wgs do register as self employed, not sure actual wording probably service provider, then they file a self assessment and HMRC sends back a tax owed and they pay it every year.

More bollocks, for starters self employed pay tax twice a year not once.

What percentage of pro$$ies would you say are legit, 1% 2% 

[Jimmyredcab]

There was an escort I met a few years back, just happened she was at school with me, and we talked about most things, including if she pays tax, which she did

Well she would say that wouldn't she.   

[James999]

But some wgs do register as self employed,

Really, can you actually list a few?

This stupid claim is often made by pro$$ies but everytime it tuens out to be bullshit.

Most Pro$$ies say they pay tax, the reality is they smoke and they think as there is tax on Cigs they regard that as paying tax 

[James999]

Well she would say that wouldn't she.   

Ask to see her tax return and she'll go quiet 

[WelshClipper]

More bollocks, for starters self employed pay tax twice a year not once.

What percentage of pro$$ies would you say are legit, 1% 2% 

I am self employed. File vat qusrterly and taxes once a year. You can pretty much choose these days.

No idea how many file....

[WelshClipper]

Really, can you actually list a few?

This stupid claim is often made by pro$$ies but everytime it tuens out to be bullshit.

Most Pro$$ies say they pay tax, the reality is they smoke and they think as there is tax on Cigs they regard that as paying tax 

Fair enough. Wont argue 

[Jimmyredcab]

I am self employed. File vat qusrterly and taxes once a year. You can pretty much choose these days.

No idea how many file....

VAT is irrelevant.     

You file your tax returns once a year but you get two bills, one in January, one in July.

Legit pro$$ies are as rare as rocking horse shit.

[purple_t]

I'll keep punting as long as my dick stays hard FUCK any law banning it

This.
I don't consider it amoral, and punting would still happen despite any law being in place, so I'd find a way.
It would be a seriously backwards move to criminalise it, it wouldn't deter many from doing it either, it'd be just as pointless and harmful as the war on drugs

[Sam182]

As a resident of Northern Ireland I can say that not much has changed since the new law came into place. Only 1 arrest and still the same amount of girls advertising as before and definitely hasn't stopped me from punting

[7x5]

The bottom line is no one person has any right to legislate against another, so I'll be damned if I'm going to let a bunch of Nonces tell me what I can and cannot do with a mature, willing participant whilst they go off down some dark alley and do the same or worse!

[Fijo26]

Would drive the prices I would have thought? Probably drive them quite high aswell I would have thought.

[jcdmj12]

Evidence?

It's not that I think it's not possible, but I just wonder how you could be so confident as to lay it down as fact.

There are lots of urban myths that are not true and originate from bullshit.

Hidden Image/Members Only

The girl in the picture is Natalie Rowe, a dominatrix.

Hidden Image/Members Only

(in her flat, with a client looking on)



And since she came out in public, she keeps getting arrested for various things then released without charge...

External Link/Members Only

Smoke, fire etc

The Buller boys clearly snorted a hell of a lot of gak and shagged anything that moved. Nothing wrong with that, I just wish they'd stop interfering the everyone else's right to do so.