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Author Topic: Prostitution inquiry launched - Select Committee  (Read 1750 times)


Offline nigel4498

And you haven't got long, has to be in by 18th February.

Offline Aspen

Reads to me that the agenda is decided already, and it's simply a matter of back fitting the 'evidence'. So blatant though, quite surprising in this day and age.

They won't be listening to punters anyway, because that's who they want to criminalise.
Banning reason: Secret barebacker who used the name "Loneranger" to slag off UKP and spread malicious claims against admin + Previously banned as "overhead". Also known as "Warwick"

Offline Barry Shipton

Reads to me that the agenda is decided already, and it's simply a matter of back fitting the 'evidence'. So blatant though, quite surprising in this day and age.

They won't be listening to punters anyway, because that's who they want to criminalise.
Yes, a complete stitch up with a rigged agenda - even the stereotypical pic of a posed street walker could be straight out of the Daily Mail not a parliamentary website.

If only we could have a serious debate in this country about our antiquated prostitution laws. But look at the agenda in detail:

Quote
Terms of Reference
Written evidence is invited on the following issues:
Whether criminal sanction in relation to prostitution should continue to fall more heavily on those who sell sex, rather than those who buy it.
It doesn't criminal sanction only falls on pimps and brothel keepers, not prostitites who are doing nothing wrong - except illegal street prostitution when it falls equally on the buyer and seller.

Quote
What the implications are for prostitution-related offences of the Crown Prosecution Service's recognition of prostitution as violence against women.
A feminazi agenda - the escorts I see don't recognise it as violence, they see it as a way to make a comfortable living.

Quote
What impact the Modern Slavery Act 2015 has had to date on trafficking for purposes of prostitution, what further action is planned, and how effectively the impact is being measured.
The impact you would expect for ill guided legislation aimed at 'fixing' a problem which isn't there in any quantity - absolutely none!
Quote
Whether further measures are necessary, including legal reforms, to:
- Assist those involved in prostitution to exit from it
- Increase the extent to which exploiters are held to account
- Discourage demand which drives commercial sexual exploitation
- lawyers, judges and policemen don't help anyone quit prostitution, they punish people, look at education, social services and benefit reform to help people quit
- exploiters - ie us - are going to be in a knacker trap
- you might as well piss in the wind, it's called the oldest profession for a reason - you would have to exclude sex and sexual desire from every aspect of our culture and society. Even the most repressive communist regimes which monitored and controlled every aspect of people's lives like the East Germams couldn't stop it

Unless we want to live in s police state which snoops in our bedrooms why not just be sensible and legslize it?

Unless we want to live in s police state which snoops in our bedrooms why not just be sensible and legslize it?

Some forum members will quote "If you have nothing to Hide" like they did with the email and telephone snoopers charter.

Legalisation would cut out wasting police time on non issues, also legalising drugs would to, that war will never be won, might as well tax that to !

 From the Terms of reference:

- Assist those involved in prostitution to exit from it

  Is there any evidence that they want to?

- Increase the extent to which exploiters are held to account

  Men Bad! Must be punished!

- Discourage demand which drives commercial sexual exploitation

  Stop evil men from wanting to have sex with pure, innocent women!

  Seriously, our collective knowledge of punting must be worth something - be nice if we could get our voices heard for a change..

Offline Nagilum

Your chance to submit evidence:-

http://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/home-affairs-committee/news-parliament-2015/160114-new-inquiry---prostitution/

Most likely this will pass at some point.  It cites a few interesting points.

"Crown Prosecution Service's recognition of prostitution as violence against women."

and

" the Modern Slavery Act 2015 has had to date on trafficking for purposes of prostitution, what further action is planned, and how effectively the impact is being measured."

So what is likely - prosecution if you are involved with a trafficked sex worker. It doesn't look designed to prosecute you if you are visiting a genuine independent. The danger is that you may accidentally without knowing and ignorance of the law is not a defence.

Offline Midlane

Most likely this will pass at some point.  It cites a few interesting points.

"Crown Prosecution Service's recognition of prostitution as violence against women."

and

" the Modern Slavery Act 2015 has had to date on trafficking for purposes of prostitution, what further action is planned, and how effectively the impact is being measured."

So what is likely - prosecution if you are involved with a trafficked sex worker. It doesn't look designed to prosecute you if you are visiting a genuine independent. The danger is that you may accidentally without knowing and ignorance of the law is not a defence.

That's not new. The strict liability offence regarding trafficked workers was brought in last time and is already on statute. Enacted 2012 wasn't it?

This one - going further?


Offline purple_t

This makes me sad, and shows how out of touch the government are on this issue. How about consulting the WGs themselves about how they feel about their work and the current laws, nothing worse than when feminazis try to decide what is best for sex workers, when they haven't done the job themselves.

And don't get me started on the male MPs who support criminilisation, then punt in secret :dash:

Online Trenlover

its OK for me to give a young attractive girl money but its NOT ok for them to return a service that might involve sex

its called free trade lol

if I walk into an establishment and have sex with a trafficked sex worker but I dont pay any money am I breaking the law?

If I go to the same establishment and give the trafficked sex worker money but dont have sex with her am i breaking the law?


I can appreciate that the WG doesnt really want to have sex with me, tbh I dont really want to give her my money either

they should check out this video the self righteous prats, this girl was more interested in sex than playing chess
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4LEuxnd8HI
« Last Edit: January 21, 2016, 09:24:36 PM by Trenlover »

 From the other side of the mattress, retired WG Maggie MacNeill is intelligent and has a reasonable blog about sex work and is quite sympathetic towards punters:

https://maggiemcneill.wordpress.com/page/3/

From the Terms of reference:

- Assist those involved in prostitution to exit from it

  Is there any evidence that they want to?

- Increase the extent to which exploiters are held to account

  Men Bad! Must be punished!

- Discourage demand which drives commercial sexual exploitation

  Stop evil men from wanting to have sex with pure, innocent women!

  Seriously, our collective knowledge of punting must be worth something - be nice if we could get our voices heard for a change..

I'm thinking this too. They need to hear from the other side of the fence.

Offline Nagilum

That's not new. The strict liability offence regarding trafficked workers was brought in last time and is already on statute. Enacted 2012 wasn't it?

This one - going further?

Indeed and it makes you think twice punting with a girl who has a pimp.  Who knows if she is forced!

Offline punk

99.9% have a pimp of some description.

Offline Ben4454

Like I always say the government is just white knighting feminists. They play it the same way everytime - bring out a 'victimised female' with a story then start the campaign.

Might be hard to achieve but all you members and lurkers out there who do not want to be shipped in the same boat as criminals need to have your voice heard and submit something\anything on Tha link. If enough of us put ourselves out our voice can be heard.

Your actions will help stop the industry going underground which will put sex workers at even GREATER risks. They won't stop because punters are criminalised. There will be even more annonomity between workers and this helps the dangerous punters out there.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2016, 10:49:55 PM by Ben4454 »
Banning reason: Ignored admin warning after temporary banning and signed up to malicious troll anti-UKP site

Online smiths

Indeed and it makes you think twice punting with a girl who has a pimp.  Who knows if she is forced!

ANY WG could have a pimp and punters wouldn't necessarily know, not all pimps are stupid enough to hang about around the WGs premises making themselves conspicuous. I am not privy to a WGs private life so have no idea if there is a pimp involved or not.

And of course there is a big difference between a WG choosing to have a pimp which all WGs work at Agencies, Parlours/Brothels and Parties do and force being used, though all pimps are obviously breaking the law.

Online smiths

Yes, a complete stitch up with a rigged agenda - even the stereotypical pic of a posed street walker could be straight out of the Daily Mail not a parliamentary website.

If only we could have a serious debate in this country about our antiquated prostitution laws. But look at the agenda in detail:
It doesn't criminal sanction only falls on pimps and brothel keepers, not prostitites who are doing nothing wrong - except illegal street prostitution when it falls equally on the buyer and seller.
A feminazi agenda - the escorts I see don't recognise it as violence, they see it as a way to make a comfortable living.
The impact you would expect for ill guided legislation aimed at 'fixing' a problem which isn't there in any quantity - absolutely none!- lawyers, judges and policemen don't help anyone quit prostitution, they punish people, look at education, social services and benefit reform to help people quit
- exploiters - ie us - are going to be in a knacker trap
- you might as well piss in the wind, it's called the oldest profession for a reason - you would have to exclude sex and sexual desire from every aspect of our culture and society. Even the most repressive communist regimes which monitored and controlled every aspect of people's lives like the East Germams couldn't stop it

Unless we want to live in s police state which snoops in our bedrooms why not just be sensible and legslize it?

IMO apart from some politicians already having made their minds up for various reasons that they are opposed to prostitution, the problem is in the main the antis have the upper hand and know it as they can spout in public as they wish while many WGs and punters don't wish to do that. It is the case more WGs have stood up in public in recent times though.

In addition governments here of any shade hold a view that what makes a good society is people being in a couple now including gays, who buy or rent a home together, maybe have kids and pay their bills like good citizens. Prostitutes give men another option and that is not seen as a positive thing and that in my view is the main reason I cant see it being legalized anytime soon. Femi-Nazis like Harriet Harridan and Julie Bindel are also on a crusade, they aren't interested in facts unless any facts fit their agenda so will lie if necessary as Harridan did in 2009/10 to get her coercion law through when she said there were 4000 trafficked for sex women here, this has never been proved. In fact Operations Pentameter 1 and 2 didn't find anywhere near 4000, more like 500 and out of those the conviction rate wasn't high. The media generally are shit scared of femi-nazis so let them get away with lying without questioning them as they should.

Prostitution is still largely seen as a dirty thing here and there is little mileage for an MP with ambition of progressing up the greasy pole to speak out in favour of it or even indifferent, its not a voting winning issue and may be a support losing issue dependent on the MPs constituency and local activists.

What the agenda of some antis has been in recent times is to try to link prostitution with trafficking and force, this makes it easier for them to get any laws to criminalise punters through, after all who wants to see women being forced. The fact many WGs say they choose too be WGs isnt seen as relevant as they are actually ALL victims of abuse and ALL punters the abusers. Bollocks of course but this could well work as a tactic. What it wont do is stop prostitution as it cant be stopped and the antis, police and government know this, it would just drive it underground making it less safe for the women they purport to want too help, I assume they view any negative consequences against WGs if punters are criminalized as acceptable collateral damage.

Any law to criminalize all punters would mainly be there as a deterrent, the police haven't the resources and in some areas the will to nick punters punting with Indies, purges would be the best they could muster if the top cops wished to launch them. I imagine it would deter some punters but as red light districts prove the street scene being illegal hasn't stopped all punters. And the street scene and brothels give a good insight into how the police think, both are illegal but allowed to operate in some areas. I could see these two being the subject of more police action against punters as both are the easiest of easy targets to get a nick and it would look as though the police were taking action.

Offline Aspen

And don't get me started on the male MPs who support criminalisation, then punt in secret

It's their cover!

Obviously any male MP, or any male for that matter, who supports decrim is going to be suspected of partaking. In the minds of most of the public there couldn't be any other reason.
Banning reason: Secret barebacker who used the name "Loneranger" to slag off UKP and spread malicious claims against admin + Previously banned as "overhead". Also known as "Warwick"

Offline Barry Shipton

All sadly very true smiths, but I think this is the saddest bit

What it wont do is stop prostitution as it cant be stopped and the antis, police and government know this, it would just drive it underground making it less safe for the women they purport to want too help, I assume they view any negative consequences against WGs if punters are criminalized as acceptable collateral damage.

I don't think they even see it as collateral damage - they probably want it to happen as a consequence so it proves their point 'prostitution is violence against women' and evil, all punters are 'violent sex criminals' and therefore we need even stricter laws to clamp down more.

They are so driven that their agenda and views are right and really don't care if people get hurt. There's only two people that really know what prostitution is like - the punters and escorts.

But they don't want to listen to us because we are the 'abusers' in their eyes and therefore don't deserve a voice, and any prostitutes will of course be abused women trapped in the system and if they say otherwise must be deluded or ignored.

I really wish they would take note of the escort members on here - people like Dani who could probably point out they faced more violence working in the NHS than they do as a prostitute, and that it is actually a choice some women want to make.

But they will trade on the stereotype of small number of street workers who may be trapped by drug addiction or the mythical hordes of trafficked forced girls by blowing up one horror story - and no one will realise that is not the way prostitution works these days thanks to the Internet.

Offline Aspen

I don't think they even see it as collateral damage - they probably want it to happen as a consequence so it proves their point 'prostitution is violence against women' and evil, all punters are 'violent sex criminals' and therefore we need even stricter laws to clamp down more.

It's not even a point, it's enshrined in the terms of reference, item 2 :-

What the implications are for prostitution-related offences of the Crown Prosecution Service's recognition of prostitution as violence against women.

That's worded as fact !

So heavily loaded that I wondered if it was actually a huge wind-up and not in fact on the government website. But it is!!!  :scare:
Banning reason: Secret barebacker who used the name "Loneranger" to slag off UKP and spread malicious claims against admin + Previously banned as "overhead". Also known as "Warwick"

Offline Midlane

Afraid so. You read the thing and it is typically parliamentary waffle but can pretty much be translated as:

We have already made up our minds to criminalise the paying for sex under any circumstances. The purpose of this committee is to put together a report that supports that end.

We will ask people like Mary Whitehouse as a representation of broad opinion and we will use (and repeat as often as possible) strongly emotive words like "victim", "violence" and "exploitation" to ensure public opinion supports us.

If you disagree with us then you are wrong and you are bad.

Offline LittleMissOrla

  • Service Provider
  • Posts: 3
I don't normally post here but thought this might be worthwhile:

http://www.pledgedecrim.com

This petition supports decriminalisation on both sides, you can set up a fake e-mail and name (or punting/working e-mail) to not be outed.

Offline Aspen

I don't normally post here but thought this might be worthwhile:

http://www.pledgedecrim.com

This petition supports decriminalisation on both sides, you can set up a fake e-mail and name (or punting/working e-mail) to not be outed.

Thanks for the link. It's easy to do.

Sadly they are not going to listen to the very people they are intent on criminalising. So unfortunately it seems to be down to the ECOP to do the best they can. I sense a new very aggressive initiative here though, and it's quite possibly all signed and sealed and the delivery will probably take place when the public are distracted by some atrocity that's yet to come. That's the way they do it when it's being done on a nod and a wink.


Banning reason: Secret barebacker who used the name "Loneranger" to slag off UKP and spread malicious claims against admin + Previously banned as "overhead". Also known as "Warwick"

Offline LittleMissOrla

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  • Posts: 3
No, I don't think they want to listen to the people involved but the higher the number of signatures then, hopefully, the more notice they take. I do realise I sound a little (a lot?) idealistic but something is better than nothing. I hope they take account of their detractors but I don't hold too much hope - it does sound like they've decided their answer already.

Offline NIK

The clueless cunts need to read UKP if they want to learn anything.


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