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Author Topic: Sauna trials - whatever happened with those?  (Read 2217 times)

Offline msc762003

Back in March, I saw this article (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-31718904) that implied the trials would have happened by now, but haven't heard any new info.

I bring this up because I was in the unfortunate situation of being in a sauna a few months after the raids and was interviewed by police who were paying a visit. I was phoned back 2 months later for a follow-up interview at a police station. I was told I might be called as a witness, so I've been nervous every time in the past 2 years when a number shows up on my phone I don't recognize.

I'm assuming I'll never be called, but will be a less nervous about unknown phone calls once the trials actually happen.

Offline f_angel

I was in one of the parlours on Tuesday and the owner was talking about this in the lounge after I'd finished my first punt. It seems the case has been abandoned. I didn't get any more details but it's over.

Offline REDFORD

That is good to know and relief for the opening poster ( excuse the pun )  :drinks:

I was in one of the parlours on Tuesday and the owner was talking about this in the lounge after I'd finished my first punt. It seems the case has been abandoned. I didn't get any more details but it's over.

maybe the case has been massaged away, so you just wonder if there some high profile officers, or judges who visit on the odd occasion, and it might be embarrassing to take this to court

Online Marmalade

Hopefully the harrassing has stopped. It was instigated by the daft Strathclyde bloke who was put in charge of police for the whole of Scotland for a while and making a stink over Edinburgh's long-standing and mostly very civilised saunas was just one of the things he did which was very unpopular with the public and police alike. (Closing public desks at police stations and taking bobbies off the beat were another couple of daft things though I don't know that they've been reversed yet). Wasted tax payers money, done very unethically, and created problems, real problems, where there were none. The Edinburgh police are generally excellent and don't go pissing at people unless forced to by 'higher up.' I could be wrong, but I think the round of very stupid court cases (not just against saunas but against Edinburgh Council would you believe) have hopefully and thankfully passed. (It was also very anti-punters, so it was probably scare tactics saying you could be called as a witness.)

Hopefully good news indeed.
So does this mean we'll be getting Bobbi back behind the desk at New Town? :D

Offline mcampbell

I understand the top cop was dischuffed that the gay sauna was being "done".  Wonder why?  And I wonder why he has a news injunction in force about his sexual preferences?

Online Marmalade

Hopefully good news indeed.
So does this mean we'll be getting Bobbi back behind the desk at New Town? :D

Probably not. New management came in a while ago now.

Online Marmalade

I understand the top cop was dischuffed that the gay sauna was being "done".  Wonder why?  And I wonder why he has a news injunction in force about his sexual preferences?
Ahhh 'tis a mystery, lads and ladettes, eh?  :coolgirl:

What a fellah...

Quote from: (The Herald)
The SNP's cherished "1,000 extra police" pledge would otherwise be broken. Political rivals would seize on the fact. But none of the parties, still unable to do much about Westminster's austerity mania, has come up with workable alternatives. So the country has plenty of coppers, yet they are being forced to cope with ever-diminishing resources. In the circumstances, perhaps Sir Stephen is entitled to some praise.

That's one story. The other comes as a list: stop and search, armed police, saunas, a death in custody, and a Glasgow venue called The Arches. Most don't have a great deal to do - though Sir Stephen might think otherwise - with budgetary pressures. Instead, they touch on slippery notions of ethos, style, sensitivity, arrogance, and sensible practice. They suggest that the great force amalgamation experiment was profoundly misconceived.

Take the saunas and "massage parlours" of Edinburgh. There's history to this. When HIV-Aids hit the capital in the 1980s, it struck with a pitiless ferocity. Suddenly, traditional efforts to suppress the sex industry (and gay culture) seemed even less sane than before. For once, the council acquired common sense. Saunas were licensed in the name of "entertainment" and officialdom looked the other way. If discretion and order were maintained, few questions were asked and a problem was (more or less) managed. Workers were granted a degree of safety.

Tolerance did not long survive the creation of Police Scotland. Its attitude, in Edinburgh eyes, was a Glasgow attitude: zero tolerance. Saunas were raided, licences were suspended, and a philosophy of policing was - so it seemed in the capital - dismissed out of hand. The writ of Strathclyde, biggest of the old forces, was being made to run in places of which Strathclyde coppers knew little. It was the writ, more precisely, of Sir Stephen House.

... Targets in part explained the stop and search fiasco, when it transpired that Police Scotland had a worse addiction to the habit than the Met or even the NYPD, when the force was still stopping children after claiming to have ended the practice, and when it somehow erased the records on which target-driven policing supposedly is based. What became clear from the episode was that Sir Stephen could not see what the fuss was about.

The same would be said about public reactions to armed police turning up at minor altercations in Highland shops. For Police Scotland and its Chief Constable the issue was efficiency. Why have specialist firearms officers "sitting around" when they could be put to other uses? An outraged public had a better understanding of what policing by consent is supposed to mean. The new national force came close to forfeiting the trust on which it depends.

Around Sir Stephen there hangs the air of a man who cannot or will not learn. The facts surrounding the death of Sheku Bayoh in custody in Kircaldy in May are not established. What we know is that Police Scotland (with Crown Office agreement) issued guidelines in March to ensure that henceforth officers need not surrender their notebooks, or agree to formal interviews with the Police Investigations and Review Commissioner, if there is the risk of criminal charges. Why the rule change? With what justification?

Contrary to evolving legend, Police Scotland did not shut down The Arches, Glasgow's most influential arts venue. The force made plenty of complaints about incidents involving drugs and alcohol, however. The city's licensing board obligingly imposed a midnight closing time and robbed the club of viability. Trouble and drugs will now migrate to less visible and less manageable places. But as with Edinburgh's saunas, "a problem" denied tolerance is not, and never can be, a problem solved. 

Bottom slapped from a judge:
http://www.thenational.scot/news/judge-rebukes-sir-stephen-house-in-police-cover-up-row.3889

Gets gay gifts, but ofcourse that doesn't mean he's gay...
"Scotland's police chief has received bizarre gifts including exotic fruits and an ornament from gay officers"
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/scotlands-police-chief-received-bizarre-5520647

A list of his offences appeared in Weekly Wanker...
http://athousandflowers.net/2015/06/28/weekly-wanker-052-sir-stephen-house/

More mainstream roundup of his shite attitude to saunas...
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/24/edinburgh-saunas-aids-sex-work-police-scotland-gay

A bit useless at catching sex offenders...
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/record-view-cop-out-over-nine-5302439

Or noticing phone calls about people dying
http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/6541360/Full-farce-of-the-law.html

As his sexuality is 'secret', the public can vote on what they think it is at gaydar...
http://gay-or-straight.com/Stephen%20House
(vote so far: "very gay")

Or on a larger website with lots of trivia about Syephen, 100% voted him gay, 80% think he does drugs...
http://gay-or-straight.com/Stephen%20House
(the number of people who just think he is a cunt vs not a cunt is not recorded)
Wikipedia says he's married with kids.

I don't give a monkey about his sexuality: it's his business. But his record as a top police officer on a six-figure salary is appalling: and that is everybody's business.

Probably not. New management came in a while ago now.

But if the threat of a trial is over, the old regime will come back at blair st, and new town?

Offline JazzMan

If this episode of the mass hysteria only matched by the Salem witch trials is over I would be delighted.
No doubt Rhoda Grant MSP (Witch-Finder Genera) will continue to push sex workers back on to the streets.

 
Banning reason: Slagging off membership

Offline msc762003

This is good to hear. I may be brave enough to venture into saunas again at a better time than 10 am on Sundays

Online Marmalade

But if the threat of a trial is over, the old regime will come back at blair st, and new town?

No, there is new management there now. They are not going to walk out and ask the former management to return. Things don't happen like that.

I was under the impression that the present incumbent was merely keeping the seat warm for the homecoming. :unknown:

I wonder if this threat had anything to do with the cases being dropped.


''SAUNA bosses are threatening to expose around 50 “well-known” ­public figures who paid for sex at their premises.

The owners have drawn up lists of clients, including police officers, ­council officials, lawyers and two “celebrities”, who they plan to name during a court case next month.''

''Former sauna boss Peter Donoghue told the Evening News owners drawing up the lists believe “If we’re going down, we’re taking them down with us”.

Mr Donoghue, who represents the Paradise, Dundas Street and New Gentle Touch saunas, said: “I know that a number of the saunas have these lists. I was asked if we wanted to draw up a list but I said ‘no, that’s not the way I do business’. I don’t know the names, but I’m told there’s lots of them and some are very well-known.''

Read more: http://www.scotsman.com/news/edinburgh-sauna-owners-name-and-shame-threat-1-3105302#ixzz3sk8WPCRZ


Online Marmalade

But it was two years ago, Squire... Dundas Street did indeed get closed down. Not sure about New Gentle Touch (which was rather poor anyway). Paradise may well still be open. I don't know that the court cases have finished o not.

Here's how the Stephen House legacy is puting women's health and lives at risk:
http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/crime/unsafe-sex-in-saunas-after-police-condom-crackdown-1-3746332


In Ireland...

"A man in Northern Ireland has become the first person in the UK arrested for purchasing sex. The chief constable of the Police Service of Northern Ireland, George Hamilton, said detectives had detained the man during a raid on a brothel."

"Speaking to the policing board in Belfast, Hamilton said: “Detectives from our human trafficking team conducted a brothel search and arrested a man for paying for sexual services, the first such arrest under section 15 of the Human Trafficking and Exploitation Act 2015. Three females were also arrested and interviewed for keeping a brothel.”

Notice no-one was arrested for trafficking...
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/nov/05/northern-ireland-offence-of-paying-for-sex-first-arrest

An interesting article on the stupidity of the raids. I didn't know that the condoms were supplied free from the NHS.


The stupidity of making the buying of sex illegal has recently spread from Sweden to Northern Ireland and is now threatening the Irish Republic. Theres no sign of it happening here yet, although some harpie Labour MSP thought she would have a try, but failed. Its utter stupidity to make it illegal because of the very small proportion of trafficking cases. It will only result in driving it underground making it more dangerous for the girls and the punters.  We can but hope that sanity prevails.

An interesting look at where prostitution is illegal. I pity the poor sods in 'the land of the free' across the pond, one of whom recently said on the Edinburgh thread of the ISG site, ''Guys, you don't know how good you have it.''  He was expecting a risk of police entrapment in the saunas, and charged, like he would
be at home.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_law

Offline ruggedscot

The idiot made a mess of a very organised and well run industry - it was providing an outlet that allowed them to tackle the street prostitution issue and this was done very well. Edinburgh has virtually no street action but go to Glasgow where the worst damage was done and you see a very different situation - girls in the street. neighbourhood annoyance drugs and all sorts of unsavoury activity - but yeah he was able to wipe those dastardly illegal saunas out.

the case has ben dropped as its been deemed not to be in the publics interest to pursue. a waste of time money and effort for virtually no positive reason. sense prevailed.

Offline Third Man

If this episode of the mass hysteria only matched by the Salem witch trials is over I would be delighted.
No doubt Rhoda Grant MSP (Witch-Finder Genera) will continue to push sex workers back on to the streets.

Not sure how this will play out, maybe someone else has an idea.....The other day RG was chosen as Lab candidate for scot parl western isles. Now the SNP hold it, so if they hold it again, she is out I would think and she will not be on the labour list for list msp's?

No, there is new management there now. They are not going to walk out and ask the former management to return. Things don't happen like that.

The new management at blair st is the old owners ex gf, the new management at new town is the ex manager under old regime, we will wait and see.

Online Marmalade

The new management at blair st is the old owners ex gf, the new management at new town is the ex manager under old regime, we will wait and see.

Ex-manager under a new regime? It's a different manager at New Town. Kenny, isn't it? Bobbi and her partner, a couple of pretty regular civvie folk who were part of the community, are nowhere to be seen. I'm trying to remember, do you mean Kenny used to run the place ages ago? He seems to know what he's doing but I don't know him that well, just nice to be nice.

Ex-manager under a new regime? It's a different manager at New Town. Kenny, isn't it? Bobbi and her partner, a couple of pretty regular civvie folk who were part of the community, are nowhere to be seen. I'm trying to remember, do you mean Kenny used to run the place ages ago? He seems to know what he's doing but I don't know him that well, just nice to be nice.

Kenny ran the new town for quite a while under the old regime, he also worked up at blair st, I would speculate that he was keeping the place warm for them, and allowed to fill his boots, he is doing a fine job, just we miss bobby.

When I first visited Blair Street back in 2006 after being tipped off that Lucy had come out of retirement to work there it was always Cathy ,William or Kenny behind the desk but then the latter went to NTS and Scott went in the other direction.Then William went to NTS and Kenny disappeared then Kenny showed up at BSS then back to NTS etc etc...its like Game of bloody Thrones.
Fair play to Kenny..under his stewardship NTS appears to be the top sauna in town but I do miss Bobbi's knowing smile and enquiry if I'd enjoyed myself when I had finished a booking. ;)

Offline ClitTeaser

With respect to f_angel, does anyone have anything official on this?




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