Private Club & R3tro- Why do they insist on retaining your real-life ID details?

[Teessider]

Maybe the threat of it prevents it from happening.

Personally I wouldn't care if anyone who released names got their rightful comeuppance in such a manner.

[SalmonJunkie]

How many swinger ladies would you expect to be there per party? Would they not stick together if there were pushy idiots about? 

Though from what you recount, it sounds like the ID requirement hasn't deterred the guys who won't take no for an answer anyway! 

Tyla generally only works weekdays, during the day- I'm guessing they know full well she's a main draw, and people will go out of their way to see her. She's usually there on a Saturday night, but doesn't work/play.

The last time I went there, the working girls were a fun but slightly chubby blonde polish girl, a woman called Demi who is getting on a bit, and a younger milf with short dark hair. When the night started they were all in the main room and there was no moving them. A lot of the older gents (who probably told their wives they were just at the pub) were quick off the mark to get in there, popped once and left. I actually spent the first half hour chilling in the sauna, as whilst I'm not prudish, I had no desire to share two pushed together beds with two women and 10 old men...

There were three swinging couples- one I didn't want to touch with a barge pole, and one very attractive one who ended up having her ass handed to her by my mate. The third one was attractive, but if I'm honest I shagged her without getting a proper idea of what she looked like- I came out the sauna and took an anti clockwise walk around the back area, then as I passed a play room there was one guy watching a woman get pounded and sucking two blinds off at once. He had a beer in his hand so I went and got one of mine, and just watch this woman get gangbanged. When one of the men finished, I asked politely if he was going to join in, and he replied "no, that's my wife, I'll fuck her when we get home. You go ahead"... So what was I to do!? It's a hard life so I took one of the condoms I'd got attached to my ankle using the elastic band off the locker key, and went at it without really knowing who I was fucking!

This was a Saturday night, so they were open until 1 or 2 am, and by half eleven a lot of the undesirable types had gone home. We then had a bit more fun with the girls.

The women don't tend to walk around alone, but I think it's better to know that they could do if they wanted to without worrying about anything.

As someone else said, kind of standing there trying to get them aware of you is the polite thing to do... But when a punter came up against one of the WG's from behind wearing a condom nobody had seen them remove from the packaging, they were not impressed. It's one of those things where this weird unacceptable behavior never crosses our minds as we are "normal" blokes, but you never know with done of these folks!

[vt]

These 2 clubs MAY be registered as private members clubs a condition of which is ID should be seen and noted. Legally speaking they can get raided at any time though as WGs are on the premises making it a brothel. This makes both are not swingers clubs/groups legally. In court it MIGHT help the owner that he or she at least followed some rules.

Swingers clubs/groups can be licensed by the local authority in areas where that authority is tolerant, for example Le Chambre I think its called in Sheffield is or was licensed and legal as a swingers club. Some swingers clubs may also have an entertainments licence but these can be expensive, in Central London, £30k a year or more isn't unheard of. Some if not many real swingers clubs don't bother with licenses and take their chances that the local authority and/or the police don't take an interest. When GP Parties got raided they were in the premises of Fun Time Swingers, of course as GP had WGs they got done. There are very old laws that the police and CPS can wheel out if they choose to which local authorities and /or the police can use in areas where they aren't tolerant. Basically a smart swingers club owner only opens in an area of tolerance or risks bother.

Sex parties like LAPC or LMP or its new names are ALL brothels legally as WGs are on the premises, NO license is available to get round that fact, by appearing to be a swingers club the hope will be the police wont be bothered to raid, that might or might not be true. Of course punters and the WGs unless they actively help run it aren't breaking the law unless it was found there were underage and/or coerced WGs on the premises, something I know LMP doesn't need to do as there are enough more than willing WGs available.

This article is somewhat enlightening regarding the legal situation of genuine swingers clubs, apparently these likely fall foul of the Disorderly Houses Act of 1751, which would enable any organisers to be prosecuted, though the failed prosecution of the organisers of the Club Whiplash S&M venue set a bit of a precedent and of course, the swinging itself between consenting adults is perfectly legal.

It refers to the Sheffield club you mentioned and one other in Coventry as having successfully applied for an entertainment licence, though I would question whether they fully disclosed all the activities that would take place inside.

External Link/Members Only

[Jerboa]

Most soldiers have passport anyway or would have to serve in the non existent home guard and most police have to drive so pointless.  Especially police using their warrant card to attend these events. What a ridiculous suggestion !

A while ago the club advertised that all Armed forces members who show their ID will get free lifetime membership.

[vt]

I found the relevant licence that was granted in respect of La Chambre by Sheffield City Council...

External Link/Members Only

It is a Sex Entertainment Venue licence which allows the holder to sell alcohol and provide entertainment of a sexual nature of the type usually granted to 'no-contact' erotic lap-dancing venues. Pages 44-45 are of note, as they contain the conditions of the licence, to quote...

3. There shall be no penetration of a performer's genitals or anus by any means.

So, it's sex entertainment without any actual sex! 

It's going to be a very boring swingers club if they stick to that rule! 

As I thought, it looks like there is no such thing as a 'legal' swingers club!   

But, because of the reluctance to prosecute cases and their apparent tolerance in some areas, you can understand why the paid sex club/brothels would want to associate themselves with this scene.

Thankfully, most swingers venues, as well as discreetly run sex club/brothel establishments generally go unmolested as long as there are no drugs, no trafficked girls, underage sex or complaints from neighbours. The Police have better things to do than chase adults who are enjoying consensual fun, but of course the option is always open to clamp down if things get out of hand.

[smiths]

I found the relevant licence that was granted in respect of La Chambre by Sheffield City Council...

External Link/Members Only

It is a Sex Entertainment Venue licence which allows the holder to sell alcohol and provide entertainment of a sexual nature of the type usually granted to 'no-contact' erotic lap-dancing venues. Pages 44-45 are of note, as they contain the conditions of the licence, to quote...

3. There shall be no penetration of a performer's genitals or anus by any means.

So, it's sex entertainment without any actual sex! 

It's going to be a very boring swingers club if they stick to that rule! 

As I thought, it looks like there is no such thing as a 'legal' swingers club!   

But, because of the reluctance to prosecute cases and their apparent tolerance in some areas, you can understand why the paid sex club/brothels would want to associate themselves with this scene.

Thankfully, most swingers venues, as well as discreetly run sex club/brothel establishments generally go unmolested as long as there are no drugs, no trafficked girls, underage sex or complaints from neighbours. The Police have better things to do than chase adults who are enjoying consensual fun, but of course the option is always open to clamp down if things get out of hand.

There is no way they wouldn't know exactly what occurs inside La Chambre of course so the implication is they don't care enough to object to the licence given and happily take whatever they charge for it. That could change at any time though especially if the police did decide to take an interest.

All comes down to how tolerant and bothered the licence issuer and police are, and new top cops might be appointed and have an entirely different view. POCA of course is another reason the police might decide to raid, in the hope of seizing assets, they might even purposely let a brothel operate knowing they must be making a tidy sum and pounce when ready. Then HMRC might become interested.

[vt]

There is no way they wouldn't know exactly what occurs inside La Chambre of course so the implication is they don't care enough to object to the licence given and happily take whatever they charge for it. That could change at any time though especially if the police did decide to take an interest.

All comes down to how tolerant and bothered the licence issuer and police are, and new top cops might be appointed and have an entirely different view. POCA of course is another reason the police might decide to raid, in the hope of seizing assets, they might even purposely let a brothel operate knowing they must be making a tidy sum and pounce when ready. Then HMRC might become interested.

I think the legislation is lagging a long way behind public opinion when they have to invoke 250 year old statutes. Most people in this country, except a vocal minority of hard-line feminists and moralists, are in favour of live-and-let-live approach to other people's consensual sexual proclivities behind closed doors.

It would be great if we could have some more progressive legislation on prostitution and a more liberal environment as in Germany.

With regard to Police waiting to pounce on POCA, there was something interesting I read on this page of the CPS website in the section entitled 'Police Investigations: Abuse of Process'...

External Link/Members Only

In investigating cases of controlling prostitution, the police may raid and disrupt brothels where local police policy previously had been one of toleration of off street prostitution.

Such an investigation in 2007 resulted in defendants, who were arrested and charged with offences of controlling prostitution, raising a successful defence of abuse of process based on entrapment and breach of an undertaking (implied or otherwise) given by the police not to prosecute.

The judge in this case concluded that by their words and acts, the police had led those who were running the brothels into believing that, provided certain conditions were met, the premises could continue to operate as brothels without risk of prosecution. The police had openly pursued a 'laissez faire' policy towards them, and clear undertakings had been given by the police that they would not investigate those running the brothels provided certain 'ground rules' were observed; for example, no selling of alcohol, no drugs, no under age girls. Police policy had effectively been one of targeting other types of prostitution, namely on-street prostitution and addresses in residential areas. Involvement of the local authority in licensing these establishments for the purposes of the sale of alcohol, which went unchallenged by the police, served to reinforce this policy and the impression created for those running them.

So, it would seem the Police would be on a sticky wicket if they pursued a policy of open tolerance towards an establishment and then turned round and tried to prosecute the organisers with a view to extracting the illegal profits.

Interesting to note that a Local Authority Licence being granted uncontested by the Police might serve to reinforce this Abuse of Process defence.

[smiths]

I think the legislation is lagging a long way behind public opinion when they have to invoke 250 year old statutes. Most people in this country, except a vocal minority of hard-line feminists and moralists, are in favour of live-and-let-live approach to other people's consensual sexual proclivities behind closed doors.

It would be great if we could have some more progressive legislation on prostitution and a more liberal environment as in Germany.

With regard to Police waiting to pounce on POCA, there was something interesting I read on this page of the CPS website in the section entitled 'Police Investigations: Abuse of Process'...

External Link/Members Only

In investigating cases of controlling prostitution, the police may raid and disrupt brothels where local police policy previously had been one of toleration of off street prostitution.

Such an investigation in 2007 resulted in defendants, who were arrested and charged with offences of controlling prostitution, raising a successful defence of abuse of process based on entrapment and breach of an undertaking (implied or otherwise) given by the police not to prosecute.

The judge in this case concluded that by their words and acts, the police had led those who were running the brothels into believing that, provided certain conditions were met, the premises could continue to operate as brothels without risk of prosecution. The police had openly pursued a 'laissez faire' policy towards them, and clear undertakings had been given by the police that they would not investigate those running the brothels provided certain 'ground rules' were observed; for example, no selling of alcohol, no drugs, no under age girls. Police policy had effectively been one of targeting other types of prostitution, namely on-street prostitution and addresses in residential areas. Involvement of the local authority in licensing these establishments for the purposes of the sale of alcohol, which went unchallenged by the police, served to reinforce this policy and the impression created for those running them.

So, it would seem the Police would be on a sticky wicket if they pursued a policy of open tolerance towards an establishment and then turned round and tried to prosecute the organisers with a view to extracting the illegal profits.

Interesting to note that a Local Authority Licence being granted uncontested by the Police might serve to reinforce this Abuse of Process defence.

Loads of brothels that have been operating for years HAVE though later been raided and convictions obtained, the police can and do change priorities as the top cops decide. If the CPS decide there is a case to answer in court it will of course be for a jury to decide but the fact is rightly or wrongly a brothel is illegal. Your last sentence may be why the police in areas of tolerance aren't bothered about outfits that do have a local authority licence, that's good enough for the police not to raid. And of course another judge may take a different view, that the onus is on the accused to have known the law, and by breaking it and possibly for a long time that's their responsibility.

The main point in my view about public opinion and prostitution is the antis have a built in advantage that they can oppose without a problem but the pro side in a lot of cases, WGs and punters cant due to wishing to remain anonymous. I personally don't know what most people here really think about prostitution, the antis mainly control the flow of information though that is slowly improving in my observations.

What is certain is a brothel is a business built on VERY shaky foundations that could come crashing down at any time, great money can be made, high risk, high reward.

[smiths]

Loads of brothels that have been operating for years HAVE though later been raided and convictions obtained, the police can and do change priorities as the top cops decide. If the CPS decide there is a case to answer in court it will of course be for a jury to decide but the fact is rightly or wrongly a brothel is illegal. Your last sentence may be why the police in areas of tolerance aren't bothered about outfits that do have a local authority licence, that's good enough for the police not to raid. And of course another judge may take a different view, that the onus is on the accused to have known the law, and by breaking it and possibly for a long time that's their responsibility.

The main point in my view about public opinion and prostitution is the antis have a built in advantage that they can oppose without a problem but the pro side in a lot of cases, WGs and punters cant due to wishing to remain anonymous. I personally don't know what most people here really think about prostitution, the antis mainly control the flow of information though that is slowly improving in my observations.

What is certain is a brothel is a business built on VERY shaky foundations that could come crashing down at any time, great money can be made, high risk, high reward.

Had a computer problem so couldn't include this. Another area that isn't clear as regards brothels is the level of police corruption, the taking of backhanders and /or free sex. Of course it occurs but how often. Ideal for a bent copper to top up his salary and get laid when he likes.

[mikexxlong]

The law can be a fickle thing or is it the law an ass that needs kicking

Either way if the powers that be tolerate various venues operating or otherwise some kind of arrangement is made

The venues shouldn’t push the agreed boundaries too far or take the piss

As it has the potential to cause a shit storm for everyone including other such venues

A certain club that shall remain anonymous, offers err aphrodisiacs to customers
and if said customer gets caught up in the moment & ignores advice from their doctor regarding their err allergy to such things, well it might end up embarrassing to say the least 

But seriously without all the necessary licencing etc. to err sell “food”, it might just rub the authority’s the wrong way ,piss them off & give mister plod an reason to stick their nose into all aspects of the clubs business including any membership books that the club may or may not have, dependant on the whole situation & any findings they may go looking for witnesses
 
Personally I am not bothered if they sell err “food”, but don’t give the authority’s reasons on a silver platter to act like bigger arseholes etc.

Just something to bear in mind!

[naughtyboy1]

Tyla generally only works weekdays, during the day- I'm guessing they know full well she's a main draw, and people will go out of their way to see her. She's usually there on a Saturday night, but doesn't work/play.

The last time I went there, the working girls were a fun but slightly chubby blonde polish girl, a woman called Demi who is getting on a bit, and a younger milf with short dark hair. When the night started they were all in the main room and there was no moving them. A lot of the older gents (who probably told their wives they were just at the pub) were quick off the mark to get in there, popped once and left. I actually spent the first half hour chilling in the sauna, as whilst I'm not prudish, I had no desire to share two pushed together beds with two women and 10 old men...

There were three swinging couples- one I didn't want to touch with a barge pole, and one very attractive one who ended up having her ass handed to her by my mate. The third one was attractive, but if I'm honest I shagged her without getting a proper idea of what she looked like- I came out the sauna and took an anti clockwise walk around the back area, then as I passed a play room there was one guy watching a woman get pounded and sucking two blinds off at once. He had a beer in his hand so I went and got one of mine, and just watch this woman get gangbanged. When one of the men finished, I asked politely if he was going to join in, and he replied "no, that's my wife, I'll fuck her when we get home. You go ahead"... So what was I to do!? It's a hard life so I took one of the condoms I'd got attached to my ankle using the elastic band off the locker key, and went at it without really knowing who I was fucking!

This was a Saturday night, so they were open until 1 or 2 am, and by half eleven a lot of the undesirable types had gone home. We then had a bit more fun with the girls.

The women don't tend to walk around alone, but I think it's better to know that they could do if they wanted to without worrying about anything.

As someone else said, kind of standing there trying to get them aware of you is the polite thing to do... But when a punter came up against one of the WG's from behind wearing a condom nobody had seen them remove from the packaging, they were not impressed. It's one of those things where this weird unacceptable behavior never crosses our minds as we are "normal" blokes, but you never know with done of these folks!

Good post there and this is generally my experience of the Private Club. What I would say us that IMHO most of the best girls have moved on. The ones who were willing to go the extra mile and were also a giggle. Some of the WGs there now are full of attitude and don't really offer much. Some also misrepresent themselves (see thread about Tia Louise) lol!

Not planning on going again.  Think the bubble has burst with the place TBH

[Jerboa]

I haven't been for a while, as others say the line up isn't that great, or if there is a one off event it will be rammed, a decent Saturday night when a few couples play can make for a good night.

[mikexxlong]

To late then the damage would have been done.  And if owners are like that who wants to support scum like that !

I think most (not necessary all) of the sex industry, has a criminal element somewhere,
be it the cliché organised crime mister big getting a cut, sex trafficker gangs or pimps, the drug dealers that sell their wares to the WG’s with the managers blessing even dodgy business men and the myriad of criminal types etc. that offer various services to the parlours/clubs etc.

And you can bet a pound to a pinch of dried shit, along with the payoffs/ favours etc., that violence or threat of violence plays a part in protecting their interests

[vt]

I think most (not necessary all) of the sex industry, has a criminal element somewhere,
be it the cliché organised crime mister big getting a cut, sex trafficker gangs or pimps, the drug dealers that sell their wares to the WG’s with the managers blessing even dodgy business men and the myriad of criminal types etc. that offer various services to the parlours/clubs etc.

And you can bet a pound to a pinch of dried shit, along with the payoffs/ favours etc., that violence or threat of violence plays a part in protecting their interests

This kind of suspicion is precisely why I'm so reluctant to hand over real-life ID details to any establishment. The illegal nature of parts of the trade attracts a certain ruthless type.

If prostitution were to be fully decriminalised and properly regulated as per the German model, it might be less risky for all involved.