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Author Topic: Private Club & R3tro- Why do they insist on retaining your real-life ID details?  (Read 2085 times)

Offline vt

I've noticed that two of the West Midlands sex club-brothels The Private Club in Aston & R3tro Club in Walsall insist on customers handing over real-life ID information...they want to see passports, driving licences, recent utility bills, etc.  :scare:

http://www.theprivateclub.com/join.html

http://r3troclub.co.uk/v2/membership/

Does anyone know why this is the case?  :unknown:

Private says it's so they can verify your age...but if you're a balding, overweight, middle age bloke that's hardly an issue, is it?  :dash:

I think I'd be very wary of handing over my real details to anyone in this industry...once it's out there you don't know when it might come back and bite you. The most trace I want to leave behind is a PAYG mobile no. & a fake name!

Is it there some kind of unspoken rule in W Mids that you can run a brothel as long as it's disguised as a private members club?  :unknown:

Most Police forces seem to take a pragmatic approach tolerate the existence of well-run brothels as long as they are not involved in other criminal activity such as drugs, underage sex, coercion/trafficking or causing neighbourhood nuisance...as it's far preferable to have prostitution behind closed doors than on the street...and none of these other places want to see your ID thankfully!

Is it maybe to ensure the good behaviour of the members?? Cause trouble and we know who you are!  :unknown:



Offline Jerboa

I've been a member for 11 years of TPC, these are both swinger clubs, not brothels, they are licensed as private members clubs, and not a public house etc, they hold no alcohol license, this is so the police have no right to enter the building without a warrant, this practice is the same in most swinger clubs in UK.  :hi:

Offline vt

they are not brothels!

May I refer you to this on the CPS website regarding the Sexual Offences Act 1956, Section 33 Keeping a Brothel:

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/prostitution_and_exploitation_of_prostitution/#a14

The difference between offences under sections 33 and 33A arises because the definition of a brothel in English law does not require that the premises are used for the purposes of prostitution since a brothel exists wherever more than one woman offers sexual intercourse, whether for payment or not. Section 33A is also capable of covering premises where people go for non-commercial sexual encounters, such as certain saunas and adult clubs.

And the legal definition of a brothel:

A brothel is defined as "a place where people of opposite sexes (but see paragraph below) are allowed to resort for illicit intercourse, whether the women are common prostitutes or not". It is not essential to show that the premises are in fact used for the purposes of prostitution (which involves payment for services rendered); a brothel exists where women offer sexual intercourse without charging (Winter v Woolfe [1931] KB 549).

I think both these establishments (and any others where more than one woman is offering sex with or without charging) would be viewed as brothels in the eyes of the law.

Online Teessider

So that means all student halls of residence would be brothels.  :sarcastic:

Thinking back to my youth - yes, it definitely was.  :drinks:


Maybe the get out is the term 'illicit intercourse'. Voluntary, willing, consented between adults - not illicit?  :unknown:

Offline vt

It matters not what the place is called on the outside...swingers club, private club, gentlemen's club, lapdancing club, nightclub, sauna, massage parlour, escort agency, etc. it is what goes on inside that defines it as a brothel in legal terms...i.e. more than one woman offering sex with or without charging.

I'm sure if the Police wanted to raid such a premises they would easily obtain the necessary warrant. I highly doubt that any licence the premises has would allow it to operate as a brothel (women offering sex), as that is illegal.

All these places are tolerated by the authorities until the day they deem them to be undesirable, then the full force of the law can be brought down upon them. Thankfully Police seem pragmatic and tolerate many premises of this type of indoor prostitution and seem to concentrate resources on the more anti-social expressions of prostitution, such as street prostitution, underage prostitution and sex-trafficking operations.

Of course, punters and prossies are committing no offence by being at a brothel, unless it is found that girls are underage or being co-erced into offering sex. The management and staff at these places are very likely committing the offence of keeping or assisting in the management of a brothel.

Which then leads to my original question...why are these two places asking punters to submit real ID details when there are other brothels all over the country that will allow punters to visit anonymously??

Offline vt

So that means all student halls of residence would be brothels.  :sarcastic:

Thinking back to my youth - yes, it definitely was.  :drinks:


Maybe the get out is the term 'illicit intercourse'. Voluntary, willing, consented between adults - not illicit?  :unknown:

Probably, technically yes, the definition is purposely wide to catch all. Of course, this then gives the authorities the powers to take action or close anywhere they deem undesirable. As we have seen though, in practice they seem to tolerate well-run establishments all over the country...they must know where they are and what they are doing...but prioritise other types of law enforcement.

Back in the 1950's the term 'illicit' likely referred to intercourse between parties not legally married...so it's a brothel unless you're gonna put a ring on it!!  :sarcastic:

Offline Jerboa

Quote
definition of a brothel in English law does not require that the premises are used for the purposes of prostitution since a brothel exists wherever more than one woman offers sexual intercourse, whether for payment or not

You got me there VT, strange that most of these club insist on membership.

Offline bunny84

Imagine they get hacked and everyone's names gets wacked online .eeveryone who knows me knows I shag  hookers but I don't want people knowing I've been to these type of places

It's the small risk you take in life . Theirs a risk you can get run over every time you leave the house .

Offline vt

You got me there VT, strange that most of these club insist on membership.

As we have seen, even private swingers clubs with exclusively amateur participants are all brothels in a legal sense, but they do seem more socially acceptable than other types of brothel where prostitution is taking place...they are even becoming trendy & fashionable with the advent of entertainment events which encourage attendees to have casual sex like Torture Garden & Killing Kittens.

But neither of these two W Mids venues is a true swingers club, they are both full-on sex clubs where single males pay to enter and play with the house girls who are patently paid to attend. Of course they allow entry to amateur girls and couples, but that is incidental to the main business, which is prostitution.

Maybe they dress it as a swingers club and ape some of the requirements of such venues to blur the lines, appeal to the latest fashion of these events and make it more palatable locally...or perhaps the local constabulary have advised them to operate this way to avoid prosecution.  :unknown:

Any local authority license is likely to do with the sale of alcohol on the premises and 'regulated entertainment' which might cover 'no contact' table- or lap-dancing, but will never legitimise prostitution...I doubt they even hold such a license as neither club seems to be able to sell alcohol on the premises.

While they continue to insist on seeing & retaining my real ID details, I think I will be very wary of visiting such venues.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2015, 09:47:44 PM by vt »

Offline Jerboa

Yes like most swinger clubs in England they don't have a alcohol licence, you bring your own.

Offline Twist

May I refer you to this on the CPS website regarding the Sexual Offences Act 1956, Section 33 Keeping a Brothel:

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/prostitution_and_exploitation_of_prostitution/#a14

The difference between offences under sections 33 and 33A arises because the definition of a brothel in English law does not require that the premises are used for the purposes of prostitution since a brothel exists wherever more than one woman offers sexual intercourse, whether for payment or not. Section 33A is also capable of covering premises where people go for non-commercial sexual encounters, such as certain saunas and adult clubs.

And the legal definition of a brothel:

A brothel is defined as "a place where people of opposite sexes (but see paragraph below) are allowed to resort for illicit intercourse, whether the women are common prostitutes or not". It is not essential to show that the premises are in fact used for the purposes of prostitution (which involves payment for services rendered); a brothel exists where women offer sexual intercourse without charging (Winter v Woolfe [1931] KB 549).

I think both these establishments (and any others where more than one woman is offering sex with or without charging) would be viewed as brothels in the eyes of the law.

May I ask which readers of this forum are you trying to convince that these places are brothels? Members? Sex workers? Law enforcement?

Offline Demistify

I was told it's a requirement of every 'private members club' in the UK, whatever type they are. Don't know if that's true?

Offline Kerosene

If it's a one-off visit you pay a surcharge for temporary membership. You would suppose that the membership is for the duration of the event. As the Data Protection act states that data should not be held for longer than is necessary, it would seem logical that they should securely dispose of that data once you have left the event.

Has anyone asked Private or r3tro what their policy (pompous word I know) is regarding this?

Offline Steve2

Unlike your "favourite" clubs VT, The Private Club allows swingers to come in. The paid girls take some of the pressure off the swinging couples and encourage them to join in without feeling pressurised.

AFAIK it is set up as a private members club which requires ID to be supplied to get a membership

TLC on the other hand is just  the equivalent of a flatrate brothel in Germany with no swingers allowed

Offline vt

May I ask which readers of this forum are you trying to convince that these places are brothels? Members? Sex workers? Law enforcement?

If you read back, I was responding to fredhiggins false assertion...but the legal stance is quite clear & explicit for anyone who would like to know.  :hi:

Offline Steve2

If you read back, I was responding to fredhiggins false assertion...but the legal stance is quite clear & explicit for anyone who would like to know.  :hi:

So Phoenix club/LMP/ Tudor Lounge  is a brothel?  Or a "legal" swingers club (which doesn't allow swingers in)?





Offline vt

So Phoenix club/LMP/ Tudor Lounge  is a brothel?  Or a "legal" swingers club (which doesn't allow swingers in)?

No matter what it says over the door or on the website or the delusions in the head of the owner, the girls who work there, the punters who punt there...TLC, Phoenix, House of Divine, R3tro, Private...they're all brothels in the eyes of the law steve2...did you really not know that??  :unknown:

Offline vt

The question I still haven't been given an answer to is why do some insist on knowing & retaining your real-life ID details and some let you visit anonymously?  :unknown:

Offline vt

I was told it's a requirement of every 'private members club' in the UK, whatever type they are. Don't know if that's true?

It wouldn't be a legal requirement, it would be the choice of whoever owns/runs it as to who he restricts membership & entry to. I suppose it would make it easier to exclude someone undesirable though, by withdrawing their membership rather than having to turn them away on the door.

At true swingers clubs, they do often want to restrict the numbers and quality of single males attending. At these paid parties, they need single males to attend as they are the source of income and the fee is usually sufficient to limit numbers to the desired level.

The fact that a Club has a private membership does not legitimise any illegal activity inside, any more than if someone set up a private member's Crack Den or a private members Paedophile Club... though I'm sure the Police would take a very prompt and serious interest in either of these!  :scare:

The question I still haven't been given an answer to is why do some insist on knowing & retaining your real-life ID details and some let you visit anonymously?  :unknown:
Don't think there is an answer, probably best ask them which I doubt they would answer. Imagine the different clubs have got differing legal advice on what's best for their particular set up rather than some particular regulation.

Offline vt

Unlike your "favourite" clubs VT, The Private Club allows swingers to come in. The paid girls take some of the pressure off the swinging couples and encourage them to join in without feeling pressurised.

AFAIK it is set up as a private members club which requires ID to be supplied to get a membership

TLC on the other hand is just  the equivalent of a flatrate brothel in Germany with no swingers allowed

I'm open-minded as to any clubs that offer what I want, which is why I was looking into attending one of the parties at The Private Club or R3tro, but was baffled by this ID requirement...maybe I'm being paranoid!  :unknown:

I have heard that TLC has had some local swingers (an MF couple and a single girl) visit since it was opened and they were made most welcome.

Offline vt

Don't think there is an answer, probably best ask them which I doubt they would answer. Imagine the different clubs have got differing legal advice on what's best for their particular set up rather than some particular regulation.

I can't see myself getting a straight answer out of them as an unknown...that's why I asked here as I know quite a few of you have attended and might have been informed.

Private already say on their website that it's just so they can verify your age...so I could understand if they just asked for ID from under-25s like some shops do when they sell alcohol, but I bet most potential visitors (inc. myself) haven't looked underage for decades, so that's obviously bullshit!  :rolleyes:
« Last Edit: October 18, 2015, 05:06:29 PM by vt »

Offline Steve2

The question I still haven't been given an answer to is why do some insist on knowing & retaining your real-life ID details and some let you visit anonymously?  :unknown:

Maybe some are acting within the law and some are not

 :hi:

Why not ask them? 

Offline vt

Maybe some are acting within the law and some are not

 :hi:

Why not ask them?

No steve2, none of them are legal...they are all illegal brothels...anywhere where more than one woman is offering sex, paid or unpaid is a brothel...you do know that, don't you?   :rolleyes:

If I thought I'd get a straight answer, I would...but seeing as they're already posting bullshit about age verification on their website, I doubt they'll give their real reasons to someone unknown to them.

Nevertheless, I am surprised none of you who have attended has questioned it before! Are you all OK with them knowing your real name & address?   :unknown:




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