Not Providing Services Offered after Received Payment - A Criminal Offence

[Dave2014]

Just a bit of useful punter knowledge on a subject that comes up time and time again.

If a WG, for example, promises anal, takes your money and then refuses to provide anal, she has committed a criminal offence. The offence is fraud by misrepresentation (also known colloquially as 'clipping') under section 2 of the Fraud Act 2006 (see below):

External Link/Members Only

It doesn't matter that contracts for sexual services are unenforceable (that is a civil law matter) as that is distinct from the criminal offence of fraud by misrepresentation.

I appreciate that in reality most punters wouldn't demand their money back with a threat to go to the police, but it is worth knowing about the criminal law position on this so you can bring it up in the subsequent negotiations about the return of your money if necessary.

As a matter of evidence, where possible get the WG to confirm services (a yes or no in answer to your text) by text where possible. I'm aware that many won't do this, but some do.

 

[Ben4454]

Paying for sex acts are against the law and this would not be enforceable. If i read right you wish to threaten said working girl for refund its not going to work.

[Quesadilla]

Paying for sex acts are against the law and this would not be enforceable. If i read right you wish to threaten said working girl for refund its not going to work.

Sorry, which law is that exactly?

[Cuntminion]

I'm going to take a quote from lock stock to tell you why whether it's legal or not no one's going to the police



Tom: Listen to this one then; you open a company called the Arse Tickler's Faggot Fan Club. You take an advert in the back page of some gay mag, advertising the latest in arse-intruding dildos, sell it a bit with, er... I dunno, "does what no other dildo can do until now", latest and greatest in sexual technology. Guaranteed results or money back, all that bollocks. These dills cost twenty-five each; a snip for all the pleasure they are going to give the recipients. They send a cheque to the company name, nothing offensive, er, Bobbie's Bits or something, for twenty-five. You put these in the bank for two weeks and let them clear. Now this is the clever bit. Then you send back the cheques for twenty-five pounds from the real company name, Arse Tickler's Faggot Fan Club, saying sorry, we couldn't get the supply from America, they have sold out. Now you see how many of the people cash those cheques; not a single soul, because who wants his bank manager to know he tickles arses when he is not paying in cheques!
Bacon: So how long do you have to wait for a return?
Tom: Probably no more than four weeks.
Bacon: Well what good is that if we need it in six... no, five days?
Tom: Well it was still a good idea.

[OldAdmin]

Paying for sex acts are against the law

Do you have a link to that law?

[Quesadilla]

Just a bit of useful punter knowledge on a subject that comes up time and time again.

If a WG, for example, promises anal, takes your money and then refuses to provide anal, she has committed a criminal offence. The offence is fraud by misrepresentation (also known colloquially as 'clipping') under section 2 of the Fraud Act 2006 (see below):

External Link/Members Only

It doesn't matter that contracts for sexual services are unenforceable (that is a civil law matter) as that is distinct from the criminal offence of fraud by misrepresentation.

I appreciate that in reality most punters wouldn't demand their money back with a threat to go to the police, but it is worth knowing about the criminal law position on this so you can bring it up in the subsequent negotiations about the return of your money if necessary.

As a matter of evidence, where possible get the WG to confirm services (a yes or no in answer to your text) by text where possible. I'm aware that many won't do this, but some do.

 

Good to know Puntico - in hindsight that could have saved me £300 with that skank Becky SummerPsycho.  I had confirmation via AW e-mail of services offered and she failed to deliver so I could have just driven her to the local cop shop.   Didn't occur to me at the time that the police might back me up.  At least knowing the law would have put me on a better footing. 

[Cuntminion]

Puntico I can see you now


Small claims court
Impassioned speech about no anal
They name a park after you as no one has broken such important ground since Martin Luther

Then you get the Bill for registering the small claims case and its double the money you won back that said romanian is paying you back at £1 a week


The sweet taste of justice

[Dave2014]

Paying for sex acts are against the law

I will be brief: you are wrong.

and this would not be enforceable.

I think you are confusing the civil issue which I already dealt with. I suggest you re-read my original post a little more carefully.

If i read right you wish to threaten said working girl for refund its not going to work.

Let me make this easier for you: If you go into a hairdresser, hand your money over and they refuse to cut your hair and refuse to return your money, they have committed a s.2 fraud (as above). The same goes for a WG who refuses to provide services.

[vw]

Paying for sex acts are against the law.

Paying for sex acts are against the law. Maybe against your wife or girlfriends rule of law, but not against the law.

[anyfucker]

Paying for sex acts are against the law and this would not be enforceable. If i read right you wish to threaten said working girl for refund its not going to work.

Fortunately not in this country, apart from caveats about under age, trafficked, injured etc.

[Dave2014]

Puntico I can see you now

Small claims court

An 'A' for attempted humour, but a complete failure, so an 'F' for attainment. As soon as I saw "Small claims court" I stopped reading as I knew you didn't know the difference between a civil and criminal matter and had completely missed the point of my post.

FFS - you try to bring a little knowledge to the community which may help some members (i.e. see Quesadilla's measured and mature response) and all some do is throw it back 

[Cuntminion]

Small claims, civil, criminal, Hague

Just edit as you see fit

[SeekingtheTruth]

An 'A' for attempted humour, but a complete failure, so an 'F' for attainment. As soon as I saw "Small claims court" I stopped reading as I knew you didn't know the difference between a civil and criminal matter and had completely missed the point of my post.

FFS - you try to bring a little knowledge to the community which may help some members (i.e. see Quesadilla's measured and mature response) and all some do is throw it back 

wow, someone missed the humour in comaminions post.

[Ben4454]

What I meant was I always assumed it was unlawful to create a sexual contract. Which is why agencies always use the time and companionship disclosure. What you're doing will be classed as a contract.

[vw]

What I meant was I always assumed it was unlawful to create a sexual contract. Which is why agencies always use the time and companionship disclosure.

Agencies do this to avoid controlling prostitution and pimping charges.

[Ben4454]

Okay so for those who have some law knowledge what would be the outcome of doing this? Would it be worth it?

[vw]

Okay so for those who have some law knowledge what would be the outcome of doing this? Would it be worth it?

Awareness, knowledge is power and all that.

[Ben4454]

I have thought about this and this would not work. Unless you have a audio/video recording of her not giving you the service.

All Lying Romanian has to do is say she gave you the service. Your word against hers - case over.

If she says she doesn't do it via text then she is not misrepresentating herself.

[vw]

All Lying Romanian has to do is say she gave you the service. Your word against hers - case over.

Or Pimp refunds you because does not want police around and believes you will bring them to ruin the rest of his business day.

[sublimetoridiculous]

I've just messaged a WG who says she is studying law. If I get to see her I'll ask about this.

And where does "At discretion" stand in all this?

[Ben4454]

I understand it is a tactic. My personal standpoint is prevention is the cure. I.e not TOFTT with Romanians.

[smiths]

Paying for sex acts are against the law and this would not be enforceable. If i read right you wish to threaten said working girl for refund its not going to work.

This is incorrect, paying for sex here is perfectly legal unless its proved a WG was underage, being coerced or the punter a kerbcrawler.

[smiths]

Just a bit of useful punter knowledge on a subject that comes up time and time again.

If a WG, for example, promises anal, takes your money and then refuses to provide anal, she has committed a criminal offence. The offence is fraud by misrepresentation (also known colloquially as 'clipping') under section 2 of the Fraud Act 2006 (see below):

External Link/Members Only

It doesn't matter that contracts for sexual services are unenforceable (that is a civil law matter) as that is distinct from the criminal offence of fraud by misrepresentation.

I appreciate that in reality most punters wouldn't demand their money back with a threat to go to the police, but it is worth knowing about the criminal law position on this so you can bring it up in the subsequent negotiations about the return of your money if necessary.

As a matter of evidence, where possible get the WG to confirm services (a yes or no in answer to your text) by text where possible. I'm aware that many won't do this, but some do.

 

A punter would have to prove this happened and if a WG said it didn't it would be her word against the punters, in that circumstance IF it got to court it would be put before a jury and they would decide who they believed. Obviously if a punter had audio, text or email evidence it might help, but the WG could just say she DID offer the service and the punter is lying, then its back to what the jury would believe.

I doubt such a case would get to court if its just about a WG not offering a service or services to a punter but I may be wrong of course.

[Ben4454]

So technically a working girl could open up her own Amsterdam style window in the UK. As long as she is in her house and not in the street.

[Cuntminion]

So technically a working girl could open up her own Amsterdam style window in the UK. As long as she is in her house and not in the street.

No I believe it's illegal to solicit I think

[Cuntminion]

Street prostitution is illegal. It is an offence to loiter or solicit persistently in a street or public place for the purpose of offering one's services as a prostitute.

[vw]

So technically a working girl could open up her own Amsterdam style window in the UK. As long as she is in her house and not in the street.

Might have a problem as a house is classed as a residential dwelling and would have to get the property reclassified for business use.  As she is the sign this would have to be considered by the ASA.

The house would also need to comply with all current health and safety regulations and as would be classified as a health/medical facility would have to have processes and procedures in place.

In theory yes, in practice no.

[Siadwel]

At the risk of being trite and simplistic and bringing down the legal high-brow tone of this thread.....why the fuck bother with all that?

If a WG says anal, takes your money then won't do it, well, then, chalk it up to experience, post a Negative review. Move on with your life.

Life's too short for all that shit.

But, then hey, what do I know?

[smiths]

Street prostitution is illegal. It is an offence to loiter or solicit persistently in a street or public place for the purpose of offering one's services as a prostitute.

Persistent is 2 or more occasions in 3 months.

[smiths]

At the risk of being trite and simplistic and bringing down the legal high-brow tone of this thread.....why the fuck bother with all that?

If a WG says anal, takes your money then won't do it, well, then, chalk it up to experience, post a Negative review. Move on with your life.

Life's too short for all that shit.

But, then hey, what do I know?

Well I certainly be do that, a negative review on here is good enough for me.

[gash bash]

So technically a working girl could open up her own Amsterdam style window in the UK. As long as she is in her house and not in the street.

Borderline illegal as it illegal to solicit in a public place. Plod could argue thats its in a public place if shes sitting in her window with red light on and her tits out.

[yorkshire123]

Court in now in session.

Mr longcock what is your complaint?

Well m-lord, I paid to fuck the arse out of cock-slut over there & when I attempted it she said no.

What did you do next Mr longcock?

Well m-lord I shagged her up the pussy then spunked all over her face, wiped my cock on her curtains, took back my breadsticks & left.

How much extra did you pay to fuck her up the arse?

£20 m-lord

Miss cock-slut why didn't you allow Mr longcock to take you up the arse?

Me no English    

Miss cock-slut where are you from?

Romania

Case dismissed, longcock you're a fucking idiot 

Hidden Image/Members Only

[Siadwel]

Dunno, mate, isn't admitting you wiped your cock on the curtains leaving yourself open to a claim for dry-cleaning, or even new curtains, which'll come from John Lewis even though the originals were from Primark?

[Ben4454]

Street prostitution is illegal. It is an offence to loiter or solicit persistently in a street or public place for the purpose of offering one's services as a prostitute.

Your living room by the window is neither a public place or in the street. Unless you are holding up a sign saying fuck me for £120.. if a punter comes up and makes a sexual agreement it is legal. To my knowledge in the act it doesn't say anything about 'being in the view of' the public it just states IN public.

Imagine a woman standing by her window and you decide to go upto her and offer her £120 for shag. She agrees. This is exactly the same. I imagine working girls putting up special signs to say they're working girls.

[Cuntminion]

At the risk of being trite and simplistic and bringing down the legal high-brow tone of this thread.....why the fuck bother with all that?

If a WG says anal, takes your money then won't do it, well, then, chalk it up to experience, post a Negative review. Move on with your life.

Life's too short for all that shit.

But, then hey, what do I know?

+1

[Cuntminion]

Court in now in session.

Mr longcock what is your complaint?

Well m-lord, I paid to fuck the arse out of cock-slut over there & when I attempted it she said no.

What did you do next Mr longcock?

Well m-lord I shagged her up the pussy then spunked all over her face, wiped my cock on her curtains, took back my breadsticks & left.

How much extra did you pay to fuck her up the arse?

£20 m-lord

Miss cock-slut why didn't you allow Mr longcock to take you up the arse?

Me no English    

Miss cock-slut where are you from?

Romania

Case dismissed, longcock you're a fucking idiot 

Hidden Image/Members Only

Hidden Image/Members Only

[shagbambi]

Good to have you back Puntico.

[MancSean]

Court in now in session.

Mr longcock what is your complaint?

Well m-lord, I paid to fuck the arse out of cock-slut over there & when I attempted it she said no.

What did you do next Mr longcock?

Well m-lord I shagged her up the pussy then spunked all over her face, wiped my cock on her curtains, took back my breadsticks & left.

How much extra did you pay to fuck her up the arse?

£20 m-lord

Miss cock-slut why didn't you allow Mr longcock to take you up the arse?

Me no English    

Miss cock-slut where are you from?

Romania

Case dismissed, longcock you're a fucking idiot 

Hidden Image/Members Only

Fucking ace funniest thing I have read for yonks

[Quesadilla]

For a £20 extra service it's not going to make sense, but I had a skank who provided no services at all and ripped me off to the tune of £300.  I struggled with how to get my money back without resorting to violence (or being accused of such), in hindsight taking her to the police station and walking her in might have convinced her to just hand over the cash and cut her losses.  However, I would have felt more confident about doing this knowing then what Puntico has just said. 

I know at least one other punter got ripped off by this skank in exactly the same way and she is still out there on AW.  No doubt there are others that would try the same shit as her so it's a useful bit of info even if you only use it as a bluff and are not really prepared to march her to the nick - given that probably means outing yourself.  For me it was never an issue as I was single and had no concerns about being outed but it just didn't occur to me at the time.

[smiths]

For a £20 extra service it's not going to make sense, but I had a skank who provided no services at all and ripped me off to the tune of £300.  I struggled with how to get my money back without resorting to violence (or being accused of such), in hindsight taking her to the police station and walking her in might have convinced her to just hand over the cash and cut her losses.  However, I would have felt more confident about doing this knowing then what Puntico has just said. 

I know at least one other punter got ripped off by this skank in exactly the same way and she is still out there on AW.  No doubt there are others that would try the same shit as her so it's a useful bit of info even if you only use it as a bluff and are not really prepared to march her to the nick - given that probably means outing yourself.  For me it was never an issue as I was single and had no concerns about being outed but it just didn't occur to me at the time.

If you had taken her to the police station apart from her possibly saying you forced her their, if she didn't admit she had ripped you off the CPS would then have to decide whether to prosecute, your word against hers, its far from sure they would prosecute without you having further evidence, and in punting that evidence will often be ones word against anothers of course.

[Type_O_Negative]

Court in now in session.

Mr longcock what is your complaint?

Well m-lord, I paid to fuck the arse out of cock-slut over there & when I attempted it she said no.

What did you do next Mr longcock?

Well m-lord I shagged her up the pussy then spunked all over her face, wiped my cock on her curtains, took back my breadsticks & left.

How much extra did you pay to fuck her up the arse?

£20 m-lord

Miss cock-slut why didn't you allow Mr longcock to take you up the arse?

Me no English    

Miss cock-slut where are you from?

Romania

Case dismissed, longcock you're a fucking idiot 

Hidden Image/Members Only

Brilliant! 

[DannyJames]

Your living room by the window is neither a public place or in the street. Unless you are holding up a sign saying fuck me for £120.. if a punter comes up and makes a sexual agreement it is legal. To my knowledge in the act it doesn't say anything about 'being in the view of' the public it just states IN public.

Imagine a woman standing by her window and you decide to go upto her and offer her £120 for shag. She agrees. This is exactly the same. I imagine working girls putting up special signs to say they're working girls.

Look up Smith v Hughes (1960) and The Mischief rule.

Off the top of my head.

[greychap]

Just a bit of useful punter knowledge on a subject that comes up time and time again.

If a WG, for example, promises anal, takes your money and then refuses to provide anal, she has committed a criminal offence. The offence is fraud by misrepresentation (also known colloquially as 'clipping') under section 2 of the Fraud Act 2006 (see below):

External Link/Members Only

It doesn't matter that contracts for sexual services are unenforceable (that is a civil law matter) as that is distinct from the criminal offence of fraud by misrepresentation.

I appreciate that in reality most punters wouldn't demand their money back with a threat to go to the police, but it is worth knowing about the criminal law position on this so you can bring it up in the subsequent negotiations about the return of your money if necessary.

As a matter of evidence, where possible get the WG to confirm services (a yes or no in answer to your text) by text where possible. I'm aware that many won't do this, but some do.

 

This will never be enforced with regards to sexual acts.

I know of a case where a escort  went to a punter at his home address they got in to an argument over him saying he has not had everything he has paid for a certain sexual act she did not provide he demanded the money back she would  not give it he snatched half of it back from her bag there was a bit of a struggle she ended up phoning the police.

2 uniformed police officers turned up she told them she was an escort and told them what had happened about him snatching money back over a certain sex act she did not provide, they told him she had done nothing wrong and he was bordering on getting arrested for not only man handling her with the money but trying to keep her there.

The police officer said it would be best if he returned the agreed money to her and they both move on from it or take a trip to the police station and asked the girl if she wanted to press charges against him snatching her back and grabbing her arm. She decided not to, the police told the girl that usually over money agreements this is usually a civil matter but this case was a punter trying to force something sexual on her that she did not want to do so she has a right to say not to a certain act. They said to her they could have arrested  him and had him up on a few charges but both parties wanted to leave it.

I know of this because my sons friend was in the police and he told us about some of the stupid things he has got called out on.

Also I am sure I remember something being in the paper once about a punter calling the police on an escort to his house where there was a dispute police got called and punter got turned on by police. Its not illegal for any punter to pay for sex but there is situations where the punter can get arrested.

So I would be careful on thinking calling the police is a brilliant idea unless an escort is trying to blackmail a punter then that type of thing would be taken serious by the police and it does as some girls have been done and prosecuted for blackmailing punters.

[munterhunter]

So the OP is suggesting if you see a prostitute agree prices and sevices in advance and she fails to provide all the agreed services you might want to report her to the police for misrepresentation under the Fraud Act 2006!  Let's examine the practicality of that.
The police will have to interview and obtain a statement from you.
They will have to arrest her and interview her under caution. Your statement and her interview have to be entered onto a secure server in the form of a summary case file for submission to the CPS who will decide whether to prosecute or not. They use TWO tests.
1.Is it in the public interest to prosecute
2.On the evidence is there a likely chance of conviction


The police are going to have to do maybe 6 hours of work to send a file to the CPS. I don't know about the OP but where I live they don't respond to car thefts they only respond to about 40% of burglaries ao I don't imagine they'd be too interested in my complaint that some prostitute from AW had done me out of £20 by not perfoming OWO especially if she said "he turned up rat arsed pissed and his cock smelled worse than Gorgonzola cheese" they might remind me that under section 53A of the Sexual Offences Act 2003 I would have committed a criminal offence by seeing the Prostitute if she was being exploited or co-ersed by a third party even if I was unaware of the exploitation.
My advice
Research the WG. Book half hours initially walk away if you don't like what you see on arrival and use a bit of common sense when dealing with prostitutes...and the police.

[James999]

I've just messaged a WG who says she is studying law.

When a pro$$ie says she is studying law it usually means she's been nicked for something, and is having a look on the internet to see how much the fine may be 

[Sir Lance-a-lot]

This is weird.

So if a WG fails to provide a specific service that she advertised, that's fraud - but if she just decides to take the money and scarper and not offer ANY service, that's OK because of the unenforceable nature of sexual contracts?  As long as she does at least offer services to SOME clients, it isn't false advertising?

[SamLP]

I don't think that trying to use a criminal offence argument would work with a WG unless you are willing to enforce it. What girls or whorehouses don't want is undue attention to their homes or the police being called around and if you stick to your guns and say you won't leave until you have your money back they will eventually cave in. I had this experience once and when the girl and her pimps tried to touch me I threatened them with the police, and after a while they did give me my money back. They would have lost business if I was still there and another punter waiting and they could see I was prepared to call the police, even if it was anonymously. This was my review of the incident: https://www.ukpunting.com/index.php?topic=51751.0

[cognito]

The police are a complete waste of space, time and tax payers money. Apart from the constable involved trying to get a freebie from the girl, I doubt they would be interested in anyway shape or form. Judges make more decisions based on emotions and impressions than the law. If your case actually got to court, you as a man paying for sex would stand no chance against a modestly dressed girl crying her eyes out, even if she happens to be a lowlife drug fuelled petty criminal.

[munterhunter]

The police are a complete waste of space, time and tax payers money. Apart from the constable involved trying to get a freebie from the girl, I doubt they would be interested in anyway shape or form. Judges make more decisions based on emotions and impressions than the law. If your case actually got to court, you as a man paying for sex would stand no chance against a modestly dressed girl crying her eyes out, even if she happens to be a lowlife drug fuelled petty criminal.

Unless you were robbed at knife point by her pimp I doubt the police would be that interested its going to take them half their shift to do the interviews and paperwork only to have the CPS say "There's not much chance of getting a conviction" . There are a number of ways the WG could escape prosecution ... if her ad said "at discretion" or she could say you intimidated her and she didn't feel comfortable . Far better in my view is to pick your punts to avoid such situations. I once had to confront a WG and boyfriend whobwere trying to short change me I paid for 2hrs boyfriend turns up after 30 min I stood my ground got most of my money back. Learned from the experience now first time punts half an hour and go from there.

[Marmalade]

Just a bit of useful punter knowledge on a subject that comes up time and time again.

If a WG, for example, promises anal, takes your money and then refuses to provide anal, she has committed a criminal offence. The offence is fraud by misrepresentation (also known colloquially as 'clipping') under section 2 of the Fraud Act 2006 (see below):

External Link/Members Only

It doesn't matter that contracts for sexual services are unenforceable (that is a civil law matter) as that is distinct from the criminal offence of fraud by misrepresentation.

I appreciate that in reality most punters wouldn't demand their money back with a threat to go to the police, but it is worth knowing about the criminal law position on this so you can bring it up in the subsequent negotiations about the return of your money if necessary.

As a matter of evidence, where possible get the WG to confirm services (a yes or no in answer to your text) by text where possible. I'm aware that many won't do this, but some do.

 

It's an interesting point. Apart from whether an evidential and a public interest test might seem to be satisfied or not it also seems to me that the situation is one where it might be fraud rather than is fraud. A judge might conclude, for instance, that the prostitute was not in a position of trust, that people don't usually trust prostitutes, and that the advert was no more fraudulent than a beauty treatment that will make you feel 20 years younger.