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Author Topic: Should it be illegal to pay for sex in the UK?  (Read 4907 times)

Offline adindas

It is illigal to pay for sex outright. We are paying for time and company. Anything thrown in is with consent between the Adults.

Paying for sex here (apart from NI) is not illegal (at least until  they change the law, which hopefully not .....)
Noone could be proscetuted solely on paying for sex, even they caught you at your pants ....

The exception: paying for sex with a person who has been coerced

Also a number of related activities are illegal which include soliciting in a public place, kerb crawling, owning or managing a brothel, pimping and pandering but keep in mind this is not intended for people who have been paying for sex (e.g we - punters)
« Last Edit: June 01, 2015, 07:54:02 AM by adindas »

It soon will be in NI

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-32539648

Just had a look at the NI section of UKPunting seems pretty bleak already !!

If that law introduced over here would it change your behaviour?
Today is the day. Will it make a difference? So will this be a cause for more IRA activity?


I have never been in Ulster but I have visited, and punted many times in the republic.

Offline Aspen

Paying for sex here (apart from NI) is not illegal (at least until  they change the law, which hopefully not .....)

I read somewhere recently that it's one of the issues on the agenda that Nicola Sturgeon has for Scotland, and therefore a negotiating point that the SNP has with the Tory government. Allegedly David Cameron would personally like to see it brought in for the whole of the UK (maybe he's not a punter - lol), so is willing to use it as a 'concession'. Horse trading huh!

This is a bit of a turnaround from what I'd previously heard the SNP's position is on the issue. But you never know what's going on behind the scenes, and if it's seen as a vote grabber they'll go for it. Wasn't there an 89% vote in favour somewhere in Scotland a year or two ago? There's been talk of the Nordic model being brought in Europe wide, but I can't see Germany agreeing to that for a start.

Banning reason: Secret barebacker who used the name "Loneranger" to slag off UKP and spread malicious claims against admin + Previously banned as "overhead". Also known as "Warwick"

Offline Aspen

Today is the day. Will it make a difference? So will this be a cause for more IRA activity?


Why would that be the case? I don't see the connection. (unless you mean it would be a fund raising exercise?)

In the days of the troubles the IRA used to use prostitutes extensively to lure British soldiers to their deaths. Happened many times, and they probably killed more army people by that method than any other. A bit like the usual scams we have now but with more dreadful consequences.
Banning reason: Secret barebacker who used the name "Loneranger" to slag off UKP and spread malicious claims against admin + Previously banned as "overhead". Also known as "Warwick"

Offline greychap

It soon will be in NI

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-32539648

Just had a look at the NI section of UKPunting seems pretty bleak already !!

If that law introduced over here would it change your behaviour?

considering this is a punters site cant see many people screaming YES YES YES :lol:
Banning reason: North East shit stirrer who contributes nothing

Offline Jimmyredcab

As we now have a Tory government for at least the next 5 years, probably much longer, punting will not be made illegal, under a Labour government it could have been a different story.     :hi:

Offline Aspen

As we now have a Tory government for at least the next 5 years, probably much longer, punting will not be made illegal, under a Labour government it could have been a different story.   

It's far more likely under a Tory government now. Mainly because I can't see there ever being a Labour government again, at least not for quite a while. Scotland was always propping them up, and now that seems to have gone.

I don't share your optimism. The Nordic model is a creeping disease and complacency isn't smart.

Banning reason: Secret barebacker who used the name "Loneranger" to slag off UKP and spread malicious claims against admin + Previously banned as "overhead". Also known as "Warwick"

Offline smiths

It is illigal to pay for sex outright. We are paying for time and company. Anything thrown in is with consent between the Adults.

What a load of total bollocks of the highest order, posting incorrect shit like this doesn't help punters who aren't clear on the law. In this country it IS perfectly legal to pay for sex unless the WG is proved to be underage and/or being coerced, or your a kerbcrawler which could in theory also mean approaching a street WG on foot and asking her for business.

Offline Jimmyredcab

It's far more likely under a Tory government now. Mainly because I can't see there ever being a Labour government again, at least not for quite a while. Scotland was always propping them up, and now that seems to have gone.

I don't share your optimism. The Nordic model is a creeping disease and complacency isn't smart.

It would not affect me anyway, if I want to pay a prostitute then I will -------------- law or no law.     :hi:

Offline smiths

It's far more likely under a Tory government now. Mainly because I can't see there ever being a Labour government again, at least not for quite a while. Scotland was always propping them up, and now that seems to have gone.

I don't share your optimism. The Nordic model is a creeping disease and complacency isn't smart.

Its certainly less likely than it would of been if Labour with Harriet Harridan in a position to do so had won the election in my view. To her its a crusade, the facts don't matter as she proved with her coercion law in 2009/10 where she used an unproved figure of 4000 trafficked for sex women to help get it through. And in fact she wanted to criminalise ALL punters here then but couldn't get enough support in the dying months of Browns government so settled for coercion.

IMO if it were to pass as law now it would be around human trafficking, this would be linked to prostitution to make it easier to get through. I agree about complacency though, who knows what MIGHT happen.

Offline smiths

I read somewhere recently that it's one of the issues on the agenda that Nicola Sturgeon has for Scotland, and therefore a negotiating point that the SNP has with the Tory government. Allegedly David Cameron would personally like to see it brought in for the whole of the UK (maybe he's not a punter - lol), so is willing to use it as a 'concession'. Horse trading huh!

This is a bit of a turnaround from what I'd previously heard the SNP's position is on the issue. But you never know what's going on behind the scenes, and if it's seen as a vote grabber they'll go for it. Wasn't there an 89% vote in favour somewhere in Scotland a year or two ago? There's been talk of the Nordic model being brought in Europe wide, but I can't see Germany agreeing to that for a start.

In Scotland it was the SNP who blocked Labours attempts to criminalise punters though that had as much to do with undermining Labour than being dead against such a law. Once again who knows what MIGHT happen in the future.

Also I thought law and order was devolved to Holyrood which if the case Sturgeon doesn't require Camerons support.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2015, 10:55:32 AM by smiths »

Offline Loverat

It's far more likely under a Tory government now. Mainly because I can't see there ever being a Labour government again, at least not for quite a while. Scotland was always propping them up, and now that seems to have gone.

I don't share your optimism. The Nordic model is a creeping disease and complacency isn't smart.

The Tory take on the issue should be that if a gal wants to turn an honest penny by opening her legs and a chap is willing to pay, then they should be allowed to get on with it. With the obvious provisos for trafficking, controlling etc.
However there are enough pinko Tories on the government benches that I can see a private members bill, on a free vote, getting through.
As you say, complacency isn't smart.
Banning reason: Constant issues with UKP, problem fixed you're banned

Offline Aspen

In Scotland it was the SNP who blocked Labours attempts to criminalise punters

That's what I thought. Although I can't say I've put much effort into studying it.

though that had as much to do with undermining Labour than being dead against such a law.

Also the impression I had. So we can't be relying on SNP consistency on this subject.

Whatever JRC says about simply ignoring the law, I don't think everyone would press on regardless. The whole scene would change dramatically. The analogy I think of is how many street areas do you see these days, and how many would risk hanging around them? I seem to recall that JRC himself admits to having partaken in the past, but apparently he did change his behaviour when they were purged by CCTV etc. I suspect we could see something similar happen if it ever comes to pass.
Banning reason: Secret barebacker who used the name "Loneranger" to slag off UKP and spread malicious claims against admin + Previously banned as "overhead". Also known as "Warwick"

Offline Aspen

Also I thought law and order was devolved to Holyrood which if the case Sturgeon doesn't require Camerons support.

No, but the rumour I have heard is that Cameron sees an opportunity for a bit of horse trading. He's under pressure to make concessions to the SNP and if he's happy for it to be legislated UK wide then it would be an attractive bargaining chip adding it to the list of concessions. You can safely bet all the wives will be in favour. Such is the way crazy laws are introduced.

The SNP can then also say "don't blame us".
« Last Edit: June 01, 2015, 11:09:52 AM by Aspen »
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Offline Jimmyredcab



Whatever JRC says about simply ignoring the law, I don't think everyone would press on regardless. The whole scene would change dramatically. The analogy I think of is how many street areas do you see these days, and how many would risk hanging around them? I seem to recall that JRC himself admits to having partaken in the past, but apparently he did change his behaviour when they were purged by CCTV etc. I suspect we could see something similar happen if it ever comes to pass.

I would ignore any new laws, that is not subject to negotiation.    :hi:

Regarding the street scene, that has always been illegal -------------- and quite right as well, normal people have to live in these red light areas.

The street scene died for many reasons, CCTV certainly played a part but the arrival of Adultwork must have taken a lot of girls away from the streets.

The police can't enforce drug laws, they can't even stop drivers using their mobile phones, how on earth are they going to stop two adults engaging in a paid sex encounter.   :unknown:

Offline smiths

That's what I thought. Although I can't say I've put much effort into studying it.

Also the impression I had. So we can't be relying on SNP consistency on this subject.

Whatever JRC says about simply ignoring the law, I don't think everyone would press on regardless. The whole scene would change dramatically. The analogy I think of is how many street areas do you see these days, and how many would risk hanging around them? I seem to recall that JRC himself admits to having partaken in the past, but apparently he did change his behaviour when they were purged by CCTV etc. I suspect we could see something similar happen if it ever comes to pass.

Like most laws its the deterrent effect that is hoped for by those that have got it passed. I would imagine for some punters the risk would be too high for their liking, obviously no one knows how many punters such a law would deter.

Assuming any law went down the criminalising the buyer not the seller route it would be impossible to police Indie wise as the police haven't the resources and/or in some areas the interest in nicking punters. And this is a crucial point, clearly such a law is a bad thing for punters as the police could wheel it out when they wanted to, but in practical terms apart from purges and/or where the top cop is anti-prostitution in his or her area I wouldnt expect it to make much difference. Brothels would be the easy targets of course. As is known some brothels have been in operation for many years despite being illegal so that proves the police choose not to enforce the law even when nicking the pimp wouldn't be anywhere near as expensive and time consuming as nicking punters punting with Indies AND the police can make money through POCA.

As to the street scene in London at least it still thrives in some areas even though the police know the where, when, why and sometimes who, it literally couldn't be easier to nick the WGs and punters yet it continues. I don't see any new law changing this grey area where the top cops in any given area decide whether to enforce the laws on prostitution or not, though I appreciate their views could change overnight.

Offline Ben4454

Very easy way around it. When you contact/phone say you're paying for company and not sex in the E-mails. When you're in the room together 'it just happens' - extremely difficult to police. I would imagine the police would want to bother with actual real criminals.

I noticed there is a lot of media trying to spark anger in the tories about girls who make a lot of money from punting - not surprised if the tories decide to switch their stance on that soon.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2015, 11:29:46 AM by Ben4454 »
Banning reason: Ignored admin warning after temporary banning and signed up to malicious troll anti-UKP site

Offline Jimmyredcab

Very easy way around it. When you contact/phone say you're paying for company and not sex in the E-mails. When you're in the room together 'it just happens' - extremely difficult to police. I would imagine the police would want to bother with actual real criminals.

Some escort agencies used that defence in court, they still got found guilty.     :hi: :hi:

Offline smiths

No, but the rumour I have heard is that Cameron sees an opportunity for a bit of horse trading. He's under pressure to make concessions to the SNP and if he's happy for it to be legislated UK wide then it would be an attractive bargaining chip adding it to the list of concessions. You can safely bet all the wives will be in favour. Such is the way crazy laws are introduced.

The SNP can then also say "don't blame us".

I haven't picked up any appetite from the Tories to specifically support or pass a law themselves around prostitution, as I said earlier in my view it would be linked to human trafficking it if occurs as that will be the easiest way. All ifs and buts at present so I wont be worrying as present.

Offline Ben4454

Interesting - show me your sources.

Then again a escort agency and a punter who E-mails saying he wants company and not sex is completely different. I am sure there were sting operations around the escort agency in question and it wasn't just a black and white operation.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2015, 11:34:20 AM by Ben4454 »
Banning reason: Ignored admin warning after temporary banning and signed up to malicious troll anti-UKP site

Offline smiths

Very easy way around it. When you contact/phone say you're paying for company and not sex in the E-mails. When you're in the room together 'it just happens' - extremely difficult to police. I would imagine the police would want to bother with actual real criminals.

I noticed there is a lot of media trying to spark anger in the tories about girls who make a lot of money from punting - not surprised if the tories decide to switch their stance on that soon.

That would come down to what the CPS think a jury would believe if they decided to prosecute, and even then one jury might agree a guilty verdict but another jury a not guilty.

For example if there is prior evidence that sex has just happened before with other men and the police know the woman is a WG and she says she is for instance bearing in mind she wouldn't be committing an offence by doing so but could be told by the police if doesn't co-operate they will make things difficult for her, off tape of course, then that could help the prosecutions case. It would be difficult and more importantly costly and time consuming to police though I agree which is why nicking punters punting with Indies isn't going to happen enmasse whatever law might be passed in my view.

Offline Aspen

I would ignore any new laws, that is not subject to negotiation.   

Regarding the street scene, that has always been illegal -------------- and quite right as well, normal people have to live in these red light areas.

Coming from someone who has obviously radically changed their behaviour since the street scene died, that does sound a bit disingenuous. I'm not having a go at you, and you are obviously not the only one, but you do openly discuss it. In fact I'd bet 99% of those that patronised street girls 20 years ago don't do it at all now. However, if I had done it to any significant extent in the past I wouldn't be taking a high moralistic attitude against those who would do it now just because I don't any more. I'd feel like a hypocrite. That's the difference.

The street scene died for many reasons, CCTV certainly played a part but the arrival of Adultwork must have taken a lot of girls away from the streets.

The police can't enforce drug laws,

Well they do. The prisons and probation service are loaded with people who have been caught. A couple of Australians paid with their lives as a result of getting caught, barely a month ago.

they can't even stop drivers using their mobile phones,

They can stop them and penalise them for it, and they do. Even though there are far too few police patrol cars around, that's one of the things those that are out there intensely look out for. If you habitually chat on your mobile phone whilst driving there's a high chance of being caught. Complacency creeps in again.

how on earth are they going to stop two adults engaging in a paid sex encounter.

Lots of ways. It doesn't take much imagination. If they allow girls to work unhindered it would be easy. Intercepting phone messages is apparently big in Sweden. SMS's can be very incriminating.


What you mean is that the police are not very effective. That is plain to see, but that doesn't make it any easier for those that get caught. And you can be sure that people will get caught. The rest (apart from JRC) will be fearful.
Banning reason: Secret barebacker who used the name "Loneranger" to slag off UKP and spread malicious claims against admin + Previously banned as "overhead". Also known as "Warwick"

Offline Aspen

for instance bearing in mind she wouldn't be committing an offence by doing so but could be told by the police if doesn't co-operate they will make things difficult for her

That is a commonly used police strategy in the UK. They get more convictions by forcing cooperation than any other method. I have no doubt at all that they would get convictions by leaning on the WG's. They won't support the punters if in doing so they get a knock on the door every five minutes.

nicking punters punting with Indies isn't going to happen enmasse whatever law might be passed in my view.

The only test for that is when it happens. I'd rather it didn't get that far, because I think if it does it will have a significant impact.
Banning reason: Secret barebacker who used the name "Loneranger" to slag off UKP and spread malicious claims against admin + Previously banned as "overhead". Also known as "Warwick"

Offline smiths

That is a commonly used police strategy in the UK. They get more convictions by forcing cooperation than any other method. I have no doubt at all that they would get convictions by leaning on the WG's. They won't support the punters if in doing so they get a knock on the door every five minutes.

The only test for that is when it happens. I'd rather it didn't get that far, because I think if it does it will have a significant impact.

Absolutely on both points.

Why would that be the case? I don't see the connection. (unless you mean it would be a fund raising exercise?)

In the days of the troubles the IRA used to use prostitutes extensively to lure British soldiers to their deaths. Happened many times, and they probably killed more army people by that method than any other. A bit like the usual scams we have now but with more dreadful consequences.

if punting is legal in the republic then if Ulster becomes one with the republic punting would be legal again .... ? I am fantasising.


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