The Retreat of Reason - and the Rise of Irrationality

[Vice Admiral]

Yesterday, on the recently started Artemis II thread, I opined as follows: "The human race doesn't seem to be getting nicer or wiser or more rational.  It could be argued that ‘peak rationality’ was reached maybe 30 or 40 years ago, and that there's been a downwards trajectory ever since."

That thread would not be a place to develop that theme, so I'm starting a new one.

Belief in the existence of God, to be fair, has been around a long time, and sadly has over the centuries been responsible, indirectly or indirectly, for the deaths of tens of millions of people in wars and genocides.  So I can’t claim a “downwards trajectory” there.  This post is more domestic in character.

My "social circle" mainly comprises, on the one hand, attractive young women of limited educational attainment (AYWLEA) and, on the other, mature people of roughly my own background (MPRMOB).

Some of the AYWLEA know almost nothing about anything, to the extent of not being able to name the Prime Minister or barely being aware that a war is being fought in the Middle East.  But total ignorance is harmless.  (“I do not approve of anything that tampers with natural ignorance. Ignorance is like a delicate exotic fruit; touch it and the bloom is gone.”  Lady Bracknell in Oscar Wilde’s The Importance of Being Earnest.)

More worrying are those who know a little about the world but have alarming views about what's going on, gained from highly dubious sources.  (“A little learning is a dangerous thing.”  Alexander Pope, An Essay on Criticism.)   

Perhaps most disturbing, however, is evidence of irrationality among MPRMOB.  Here are four examples.

1.  A friend who believes almost every conspiracy theory ever concocted.  (He is, however, an alpha-male narcissist and an outlier – aka fucking bonkers – and is therefore not statistically significant for the purposes of this survey.)

2.  A retired barrister friend, with – normally – all the intellectual rigour you would associate with the profession, who recently told me that he thought the Trump assassination attempt on 13 July 2024 was faked.

3.  A distant cousin, otherwise apparently sensible, who expressed the view that there was something peculiar about the way the Twin Towers collapsed on 11 September 2021, which indicated that, simultaneously with the aircraft flying into the buildings, explosives had been detonated lower down.

4.  My GP, who thinks it possible that various structures in South America could have been created by aliens.  (Happily, in my part of England, the NHS “factors in” time during medical consultations to allow for discussion of hobbits, UFOs, etc.) 

The beliefs above have all been regularly and easily rebutted by knowledgeable individuals who soberly marshal the evidence.  So why do intelligent people continue to believe this stuff?  I don’t think that would have been the case before the age of mass communications.

[Mr Garmin]

1. the problem is that over time evidence comes out that shows that some theorists were, at least in part, correct

2. I assumed that the assignation attempt was real, now I'm not so certain, that bullet wound sure healed quickly.

3. there were definitely a number of things that were odd on 911

4. explain to me exactly how the Nazca lines were made.

I'm afraid that the older I get the more I start believing that nothing is real.  I see signs of intelligent design everywhere but that doesn't mean that I believe in a 'god'

And now we're in a world of AI where anything can be convincingly faked.  We've all seen videos on the net where it's becoming impossible to discern reality from fake.

So it really does come down to faith in what you believe.  I think that we can all agree that certain governments and agencies certainly have the means to convincingly fake a terrorist attack/assignation/moon landing etc. it perhaps just comes down to whether you believe that they would do it.

[Vice Admiral]

4. explain to me exactly how the Nazca lines were made.

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This article comprises about 3,350 words of serious scholarly scientific and historical research – and less than 350 words on Erich von Däniken's discredited theories.

More generally, the problem with aliens visiting Earth is that the distances involved are, literally, astronomical.

The nearest star to our Sun, Proxima Centauri, is 4.24 light-years away. It has at least two confirmed exoplanets, including Proxima Centauri b, an Earth-sized planet orbiting within the habitable zone where liquid water could exist.

Using the best available technology, it would take us about 75,000 years to get there.

OK.  Maybe aliens have developed faster ways of travelling across the universe.  But I rather doubt it. 

And they’d surely do more when they got here than do a bit of weird stuff and then fuck off back to Proxima Centauri b.

[daviemac]

Just a reminder. - No religious discussions allowed.


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[Williams56]

I'm very resistive to conspiracy theories. Given the choice of 'cock up or conspiracy' I'll nearly always opt for cock-up (as you'd expect given the nature of this forum).

I also questioned whether the Trump assassination attempt was staged. Given at least two people died and the risk that it might not work out as planned I think it was a real attempt.

But I agree we live in a perilous world where expertise is discounted and facts can be shouted down as fake news. I think (hope) future historians will shake their heads in disbelief when reviewing the times we live in.

[Stevelondon]

Just a reminder. - No religious discussions allowed.


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It’s an interesting rule.

I’m not against it. I have to say.
I learned a long time ago it’s perhaps the one single subject that can never really be argued about. Simply because it’s never ending.

Is it ok to ask why though. Or have I answered myself. 🤪😀

[myothernameis]

Just a reminder. - No religious discussions allowed.


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It’s an interesting rule.

I’m not against it. I have to say.
I learned a long time ago it’s perhaps the one single subject that can never really be argued about. Simply because it’s never ending.

Is it ok to ask why though. Or have I answered myself. 🤪😀

Its a interesting point, if we were to ask if Mr G exists, according to the rules we cant do this as it religion

But we can ask and explore if aliens are real, and where they might come from

[Mr Garmin]

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More generally, the problem with aliens visiting Earth is that the distances involved are, literally, astronomical.

I never said that it was aliens.  I merely speculate that it may not have been as suggested and perhaps there was an earlier advanced civilisation that died out and their skills were lost.  Perhaps they were Mk1 humans.

[Squire Haggard]

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This article comprises about 3,350 words of serious scholarly scientific and historical research – and less than 350 words on Erich von Däniken's discredited theories.

More generally, the problem with aliens visiting Earth is that the distances involved are, literally, astronomical.

The nearest star to our Sun, Proxima Centauri, is 4.24 light-years away. It has at least two confirmed exoplanets, including Proxima Centauri b, an Earth-sized planet orbiting within the habitable zone where liquid water could exist.

Using the best available technology, it would take us about 75,000 years to get there.

OK.  Maybe aliens have developed faster ways of travelling across the universe.  But I rather doubt it. 

And they’d surely do more when they got here than do a bit of weird stuff and then fuck off back to Proxima Centauri b.

[Squire Haggard]

Bugger the last post. I didnt know that it posted.

The nearest star to our Sun, Proxima Centauri, is 4.24 light-years away. It has at least two confirmed exoplanets, including Proxima Centauri b, an Earth-sized planet orbiting within the habitable zone where liquid water could exist.

Using the best available technology, it would take us about 75,000 years to get there.

OK.  Maybe aliens have developed faster ways of travelling across the universe.  But I rather doubt it. 

There is a theory that this could be done. Instead of travelling a vast distance, spacetime can be folded and the distance between two points shortened. It would take a massive amount of energy though.

Monday is the 60th anniversary of the Westall incident, which had 200 witnesses. Some of them gather every year on the anniversary and they have given many interviews.
The US government and Pentagon admitted in 2017 that UFOs are real and there have been three public congressional hearings since with many military witnesses testifying under oath. The last one from 6 months ago is linked below together with first one from 2023. The second one from 2024 is on YT as well but it was not filmed very well.
The Westall Facebook page follows too.

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[Iamforreal]

If there is a civilisation let's say 50.000 light years away when they look at us through a telescope they see the earth how it was back then, no signs of technology - techno signatures.
But they can see bio signatures from our atmosphere.
Same way when we look at them.
Also we think we are very special and every alien if there is one will come to see us, if they are advanced I believe they wouldn't give a toss about earth, what could we give them that they don't have? Oil? 
In the same time we might be the only ones and then we can say that we are special haha, in my opinion that's just wishful thinking,
I believe there is a matter of time until we see bio signatures on other exo planets, if not already done, but the standard is very high for confirmation, they also need money for a new telescope after James Webb and this is a very good reason to get them.

Another point just because we can build stuff now easy it doesn't mean that we couldn't do it few thousand years ago, just by other methods and in more time, we have the same brain, very clever people existed back then, same like there are today.

[Watts.E.Dunn]

If there is a civilisation let's say 50.000 light years away when they look at us through a telescope they see the earth how it was back then, no signs of technology - techno signatures.
But they can see bio signatures from our atmosphere.
Same way when we look at them.

Amazing telescope that, all the planets and stars and orher stuff in the way!

Whatever wouldnt have enough resolution let alone the time delays!..

[Watts.E.Dunn]

And when a see the tic-tok thingies over the river thames, and aliens walking down Watford high street on a saturday afternoon i might a tad more convinced!..

[Iamforreal]

I used the distance as an example why it is very unlikely to see them, if they exist.
Anyway is fascinating to think about it...so far no evidence 

[Squire Haggard]

And when a see the tic-tok thingies over the river thames, and aliens walking down Watford high street on a saturday afternoon i might a tad more convinced!..

You mean the Tic Tac?  They've got it on video, tracked it at 43,000 mph on 2 sets of military radar, watched for 5 minutes by four fighter plane aviators each with over 20 years in the military. It can pull G forces of over 700 G, when any aircraft will break up under 20Gs. All the witnesses are convinced, including the radar operator. Commander Fravor is on the 2023 Congressional video. He's convinced its was not from our world. He appears at 1.06.36 in the link below.

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[Blackpool Rock]

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This article comprises about 3,350 words of serious scholarly scientific and historical research – and less than 350 words on Erich von Däniken's discredited theories.

More generally, the problem with aliens visiting Earth is that the distances involved are, literally, astronomical.

The nearest star to our Sun, Proxima Centauri, is 4.24 light-years away. It has at least two confirmed exoplanets, including Proxima Centauri b, an Earth-sized planet orbiting within the habitable zone where liquid water could exist.

Using the best available technology, it would take us about 75,000 years to get there.

OK.  Maybe aliens have developed faster ways of travelling across the universe.  But I rather doubt it. 

And they’d surely do more when they got here than do a bit of weird stuff and then fuck off back to Proxima Centauri b.

Well we go on holiday to the beach and build sandcastles just for fun so perhaps they did a few day trips and built the pyramids 
They've not been back for a while as the kids just moaned about how long it took to get home, FFS they'd only reached the moon before asking "Are we nearly there yet" 

[GCAS9]

Yesterday, on the recently started Artemis II thread, I opined as follows: "The human race doesn't seem to be getting nicer or wiser or more rational.  It could be argued that ‘peak rationality’ was reached maybe 30 or 40 years ago, and that there's been a downwards trajectory ever since."

Well here's a paradox: if you think about it, we are all ignorant.

I (believe I) know what I know what's in my head, but my head is only one head of the billions of human heads, each with their own knowledge.  My knowledge is a fraction of a billion of all the human knowledge in all heads that are alive now and that have ever lived, and that's before you add the knowledge stored in all the diaries, newspapers, journals, books, internet, stone tablets, papyruses (papyrii?) etc ever written.

So the reality is that in comparison to all this knowledge, I know nothing!
Maybe there's another paradox there: it's only the wise who know they know nothing!
(Not that i consider myself wise in any way, but it's the fools who boast of how much they know!)

And that's before we factor in what the whales, dolphins and little green men know too.

As for rationality, perhaps human beings are just as rational as they've ever been; our problem now is thanks to social media, even the village idiot can get themselves a global audience.  In fact maybe the problem is the village idiots shouting at us and at each other all around the globe are drowning out the "sensible" discourse.

[daviemac]

It’s an interesting rule.

I’m not against it. I have to say.
I learned a long time ago it’s perhaps the one single subject that can never really be argued about. Simply because it’s never ending.

Is it ok to ask why though. Or have I answered myself. 🤪😀

Religion is the biggest single source of controversy throughout the world and it's something a person either believes in or they don't, it's so personal there's nothing to discuss.

[Watts.E.Dunn]

Well i expect uncle Sam has got something crafty on the go, might want to put the wind up a lot of people saying that its not of this world etc. Odd that these events seem to happen over and around the north amercian coninent is it not?.

OK been odd sightings of other things in other places but not quite like this one. Odd also in a way that the radar system upgrade allowed them to see what wasnt there  before unless that had somethig odd and convincnig in the software?. So lets put the wind up the Ruskis where we let them think we have something other worldly amazing;)

Now what about the big Balloons from China eh?.

Quite amusing in the news today about finding Bigfoot, many have been hunting him, or her, hardely anyones got a decent photo of one as yet after all this time.

An other extra terrestrial maybe?.

I'm sure Davie will forgive me the quote but good old Karl M said "Religon is the opimum of the masses" how bloody right he was!..

[Stevelondon]

Opiate…….. 👍🏻


But then again he may have meant to say ‘Opium’ 😂

[maxQ]

Amazing telescope that, all the planets and stars and orher stuff in the way!

You would be amazed at whats possible, and whats being worked on by serious people, look up gravitational lensing, its possible in theory, to get images from Planets light years away with such detail that you could make out weather patterns or islands and continents. With large cheap rockets, they might make it happen, but its not easy

Whatever wouldnt have enough resolution let alone the time delays!..

Yeah the time delays are crazy to think about

[maxQ]

3.  A distant cousin, otherwise apparently sensible, who expressed the view that there was something peculiar about the way the Twin Towers collapsed on 11 September 2021, which indicated that, simultaneously with the aircraft flying into the buildings, explosives had been detonated lower down.

Ask him whats his opinion on the dancing Israelis, just to stir the pot

4.  My GP, who thinks it possible that various structures in South America could have been created by aliens.  (Happily, in my part of England, the NHS “factors in” time during medical consultations to allow for discussion of hobbits, UFOs, etc.) 

Tell him to read Fingerprints of the Gods by Graham Hancock, or maybe he has, it might make more sense to him   

Yesterday, on the recently started Artemis II thread, I opined as follows: "The human race doesn't seem to be getting nicer or wiser or more rational.  It could be argued that ‘peak rationality’ was reached maybe 30 or 40 years ago, and that there's been a downwards trajectory ever since."

We aren't very rational at all, as John Derbyshire points out

“The ordinary modes of human thinking are magical, religious, social, and personal. We want our wishes to come true; we want the universe to care about us; we want the approval of those around us; we want to get even with that s.o.b. who insulted us at the last tribal council. For most people, wanting to know the cold truth about the world is way, way down the list.”

People we generally think of as 100% rational or scientific are generally not, there is a very long list of great scientists that believed all kinds of strange and crazy things. I think we all can fall into the trap

Using the best available technology, it would take us about 75,000 years to get there.

OK.  Maybe aliens have developed faster ways of travelling across the universe.  But I rather doubt it.

The UFO phenomenon appears to be real, but unfortunately its also useful to various governments, for example the US and Soviets used UFOs as a cover for experimental Aircraft or rocket launches ect, and it has other uses

When I say I think its real, I don't mean its Aliens from another Star system, the most interesting take on UFOs comes from Carl Jung and Jacques Vallee, but most people ignore them 

[Vice Admiral]

The UFO phenomenon appears to be real, but unfortunately its also useful to various governments, for example the US and Soviets used UFOs as a cover for experimental Aircraft or rocket launches ect, and it has other uses

When I say I think its real, I don't mean its Aliens from another Star system, the most interesting take on UFOs comes from Carl Jung and Jacques Vallee, but most people ignore them

Many mysterious and hard-to-explain things happen in the world, so of course UFOs “exist”.  A UFO is simply something that flies, but cannot be identified.

The trouble with conspiracy theorists is that they go from 0 to 60 in five seconds. 

But if there's something that's inexplicable, it's just that.  Aliens should always be an end-of-the-road (or end of the universe?) explanation!

If and when an explanation is in due course found for something initially seen as inexplicable, that explanation usually turns out to be mundane – in both the original sense of the word (“of this earthly world rather than a heavenly or spiritual one”) and the everyday sense (“lacking interest or excitement; dull”).

Alternative theories are, of course, not conspiracy theories if there is widely accepted evidence that an alternative explanation to the standard one is plausible, and if the explanation in question is supported by a significant proportion of well-informed people. 

That the Covid-19 virus may have escaped from a Chinese laboratory, for example, is possible.  This is an alternative explanation to the standard one, for which there is widespread “expert” support.  It is not therefore a conspiracy theory.

(However, for the record, Google AI has this: “Based on the current weight of peer-reviewed scientific literature and expert surveys as of early 2026, most scientists and researchers believe that COVID-19 originated from a natural zoonotic spillover – l likely a wet market – rather than a laboratory incident.”)

[Blackpool Rock]

Many mysterious and hard-to-explain things happen in the world, so of course UFOs “exist”.  A UFO is simply something that flies, but cannot be identified.

The trouble with conspiracy theorists is that they go from 0 to 60 in five seconds. 

But if there's something that's inexplicable, it's just that.  Aliens should always be an end-of-the-road (or end of the universe?) explanation!

If and when an explanation is in due course found for something initially seen as inexplicable, that explanation usually turns out to be mundane – in both the original sense of the word (“of this earthly world rather than a heavenly or spiritual one”) and the everyday sense (“lacking interest or excitement; dull”).

Alternative theories are, of course, not conspiracy theories if there is widely accepted evidence that an alternative explanation to the standard one is plausible, and if the explanation in question is supported by a significant proportion of well-informed people. 

That the Covid-19 virus may have escaped from a Chinese laboratory, for example, is possible.  This is an alternative explanation to the standard one, for which there is widespread “expert” support.  It is not therefore a conspiracy theory.

(However, for the record, Google AI has this: “Based on the current weight of peer-reviewed scientific literature and expert surveys as of early 2026, most scientists and researchers believe that COVID-19 originated from a natural zoonotic spillover – l likely a wet market – rather than a laboratory incident.”)

The acronym UFO is now so tarnished with people assuming it's Aliens that they have renamed them as UAP, which stands for Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena. Previously, it meant "Unidentified Aerial Phenomena," but was updated to include trans-medium objects detected in space, air, and water. This rebranding aims to reduce the stigma and alien-related, pop-culture connotations associated with "UFO"

I do quite like listening to some conspiracy theories, not because I believe them but on occasions they can be thought provoking until I reach a point of just thinking this is total BS and end up getting a bit pissed off with them 
The thing that most of these conspiracy theories / theorists seem to do is to pick up on 1 single or specific thing that's perhaps unclear or hard to explain rationally (until a proper scientific reason is given but by then they are too far down the rabbit hole to get back out) but they then reconstruct every other piece of fact and information to fit in with their warped view and theory.
Effectively they try to reshape the entire world to fit in with their 1 theory or opinion 

I've also found that if someone believes 1 conspiracy theory then they are more likely to believe lot's of other ones, there was a twat where I worked who seemingly believed all of them, imagine my shock and amazement when I discovered that he wasn't an Anti-Vaxer 

[Iamforreal]

Imagine the flat earhers now seeing the Earth pictures from Artemis saying that it's all a fabrication 
It's funny and also very sad in the same time.

[Blackpool Rock]

Imagine the flat earhers now seeing the Earth pictures from Artemis saying that it's all a fabrication 
It's funny and also very sad in the same time.

Like this crazy fucker "Mad" Mike Hughes who was killed when his steam powered rocked plunged back to earth, looks like the parachute deploys or somehow ejects just after take off, either way it's Darwin theory in motion 

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[Squire Haggard]

The SOL foundation is interesting. Its founder, Prof Gary Nolan, is always interesting to listen to. His CV is impressive.

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[bigden40]

Imagine the flat earhers now seeing the Earth pictures from Artemis saying that it's all a fabrication 
It's funny and also very sad in the same time.

You don’t have to imagine, this sort of stuff is easy to find …

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[Iamforreal]

You don’t have to imagine, this sort of stuff is easy to find …

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Oh dear 

[Squire Haggard]

Well i expect uncle Sam has got something crafty on the go, might want to put the wind up a lot of people saying that its not of this world etc. Odd that these events seem to happen over and around the north amercian coninent is it not?.

Here's one that happened not far from you, in Rhendlesham Forest. There are several other ex military witnesses who all agree about what happened.
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Jim Penniston got radiation damage because he was so near the craft. The late Senator John McCain made sure that he got free medical treatment for injuries sustained while on duty.
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His drawing of it and glyphs on its side
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[Iamforreal]

Here's one that happened not far from you, in Rhendlesham Forest. There are several other ex military witnesses who all agree about what happened.
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Jim Penniston got radiation damage because he was so near the craft. The late Senator John McCain made sure that he got free medical treatment for injuries sustained while on duty.
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His drawing of it and glyphs on its side
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I think Carl Sagan said that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
Same case here, we don't have any piece of those UFO's or UAP to be able to analyse them, we just speculate.
Now with all the phones we have in our pockets and camera's in so many places, would expect to see more of them, not less.
But of course we can discuss and be open minded about them, however many just go down the rabbit hole saying they are definitely aliens.

[Squire Haggard]

I think Carl Sagan said that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
Same case here, we don't have any piece of those UFO's or UAP to be able to analyse them, we just speculate.
Now with all the phones we have in our pockets and camera's in so many places, would expect to see more of them, not less.
But of course we can discuss and be open minded about them, however many just go down the rabbit hole saying they are definitely aliens.

There are some unreleased videos of craft taken from military planes and drones that are automatically classified, according to Louis Eiizondo, former head of the Pentagon task force that investigated UFOs for about 10 years. Some are out there and have been declassified.
Jim Penniston took photos of the craft as he walked round it. They didnt come out because of the radiation from the craft.
In the 1966 Westall case, a teacher photographed the UFOs that were near the school, but the camera was confiscated by the military and the whole school was told not to discuss it.
A recent video is here.
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The same video with a 30 minute explanation before it starts.
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[Squire Haggard]

In the 1966 Westall case, a teacher photographed the UFOs that were near the school, but the camera was confiscated by the military and the whole school was told not to discuss it.

Here's a link to an Aussie news item on the 60th anniversary of the Westall case. It was on 6/4/66.

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[Vice Admiral]

Imagine the flat earhers now seeing the Earth pictures from Artemis saying that it's all a fabrication 
It's funny and also very sad in the same time.

Yesterday I got the chance, during an otherwise sublunary telephone conversation, to ask my main irrational friend about Artemis II.  (He’s the person I described in the initial post on this thread as:  “A friend who believes almost every conspiracy theory ever concocted.  He is, however, an alpha-male narcissist and an outlier – aka fucking bonkers – and is therefore not statistically significant for the purposes of this survey.”)

This friend has – of course – always believed that the various moon landings were faked.  I asked whether he thought the same applied to Artemis II.

Yep, it was all fake.  In spite of the fact that, as I pointed out, some 400,000 people would apparently need to have been complicit in the various NASA "conspiracies" over the years, and not one of them has ever broken ranks to expose the fraud.

At the end of our exchange about this and other conspiratorial matters, I said, “Do you genuinely believe all this guff?  Or do you only do it to annoy, because you know it teases?”

He assured me that all his beliefs are genuine.

(He has also, needless to say, always been a fervent supporter of Brexit and of Nigel Farage.)

[southcoastpunter]

(He has also, needless to say, always been a fervent supporter of Brexit and of Nigel Farage.)

What has this to do with being a conspiracy theorist?

[Blackpool Rock]

What has this to do with being a conspiracy theorist?

It does demonstrate a wider pattern of being a prick 

[Stevelondon]

If I only take one thing away from this thread. It’s that conspiracy theorists go from 0-60 slower than my car.

Not important to a lot of you I know. But the question being. It is something that has been bothering me for quite some time.

[Watts.E.Dunn]

Back when the orignal moon landings were on the go a few lads at *Lords bridge had one of theri radio telescopes pointed at the moon and intercepted the signals from there seeing that Radio waves travel at 186,000 miles a second they could comput that ther were coming from a spot of the moon where NASA siad they were and the distance timings were  at worst a few hundreds of metres out to fake that well how could you do it?..

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[Blackpool Rock]

Back when the orignal moon landings were on the go a few lads at *Lords bridge had one of theri radio telescopes pointed at the moon and intercepted the signals from there seeing that Radio waves travel at 186,000 miles a second they could comput that ther were coming from a spot of the moon where NASA siad they were and the distance timings were  at worst a few hundreds of metres out to fake that well how could you do it?..

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In terms of the moon landings as someone once pointed out it was the height of the cold war and at no point did Russia claim that they were fake, let's face it they would have been all over it saying it was untrue if there was even the slightest hint it wasn't true

[Mr Garmin]

In terms of the moon landings as someone once pointed out it was the height of the cold war and at no point did Russia claim that they were fake, let's face it they would have been all over it saying it was untrue if there was even the slightest hint it wasn't true

Lets assume that the landings were fake and the Ruskies knew it.  So they say to the world "the Yanks never went to the moon"  What do you think would be the reaction from the rest of the world?  They would have been accused of sour grapes with nothing to be gained.

If they never went to the moon, what proof could the Soviets produce that would prove it?

[Blackpool Rock]

Lets assume that the landings were fake and the Ruskies knew it.  So they say to the world "the Yanks never went to the moon"  What do you think would be the reaction from the rest of the world?  They would have been accused of sour grapes with nothing to be gained.

If they never went to the moon, what proof could the Soviets produce that would prove it?

 

[RedKettle]

What has this to do with being a conspiracy theorist?

The sort of gullible fool who believes conspiracy theories is perfect for believing the utter nonsense that populists like Farage come out with, including that breaking from our largest trading partner would boost our economy.

[Mr Garmin]

 

Stop banging your head.  Tell me how the Ruskies could definitely prove that the yanks never landed on the moon?

[Blackpool Rock]

Stop banging your head.  Tell me how the Ruskies could definitely prove that the yanks never landed on the moon?

Stop going round in circles Mr Garmin, you appear to be lost 

[Mr Garmin]

Stop going round in circles Mr Garmin, you appear to be lost 

So you don't have an answer, which is my point.  It's not possible to prove a negative so it would simply be one word against another and nobody in the west would believe the Russians, especially at the height of the cold war so they would have absolutely nothing to gain by the claim, better to suck it up and look big.

I'm not saying that the Yanks never went, I'm just pointing out the absurdity of your argument. 

[Blackpool Rock]

So you don't have an answer, which is my point.  It's not possible to prove a negative so it would simply be one word against another and nobody in the west would believe the Russians, especially at the height of the cold war so they would have absolutely nothing to gain by the claim, better to suck it up and look big.

I'm not saying that the Yanks never went, I'm just pointing out the absurdity of your argument.

Mate I don't give a flying fuck and i'm not even going to waste any time thinking about or trying to answer your BS question as it'll just go round in circles

Not thought about an answer, not going to think about an answer, not going to answer, hopefully that answers your question as to why I haven't answered and even if it doesn't i'm not bothered as it's just a waste of server space 

[Mr Garmin]

Run away, run away, what are you posting on the thread for then?

Go back to boasting about 'dropping £2K in the casino' while having a £1.5K overdraft

[Blackpool Rock]

Run away, run away, what are you posting on the thread for then?

Go back to boasting about 'dropping £2K in the casino' while having a £1.5K overdraft

Not running away just not engaging in your little troll type argument trying to draw me in to giving an answer which you immediately shoot down and then as I say it just goes round in circles

BTW i've not had an overdraft for year now but I do regularly drop nice wins at the casino and on footy, now please turn your sat nav on and head out of town, please take the horse you rode in on with you 

[southcoastpunter]

It does demonstrate a wider pattern of being a prick 

The sort of gullible fool who believes conspiracy theories is perfect for believing the utter nonsense that populists like Farage come out with, including that breaking from our largest trading partner would boost our economy.

Well I have only met four people who were serious conspiracy theorists and all were right little labour voting lefties and remainers - so that doesn’t fit in with your ( getting dangerously near political) comments!

[daviemac]

Well I have only met four people who were serious conspiracy theorists and all were right little labour voting lefties and remainers - so that doesn’t fit in with your ( getting dangerously near political) comments!

We shouldn't have to remind you (or anyone else) about political posts.