Parlour arrests, Wilts, Glos, Suffolk, Cambs, Reading

[Massage Bloke]

Chinese authorities don't care a shit about their women being exploited. As far as they're concerned, the more the better. Increased numbers means more western funds repatriated back to China. With a population their size, even a  few hundred thousand getting trapped into modern slavery in the west is just a rounding error in the stats, nothing they see a need to worry about. It's not as if sex workers in China get treated any better - there's a significant level of trafficking of women inside China

Yep, the level of naivety in the UK can be surprising.
.
One of China's main desires, is to have as much foriegn currency flowing to them as possible, hense the vast amount of US treasury bonds thry've aquired over the years. And the pushing of websites to sell directly to consumers in the west. What can be better than massage parlours in the UK? Money flowing out of our country to China (minus overheads people taking their cut, etc) for no set-up costs to the Chinese authorities.

And if anyone is in any doubt about China's moral outlook, don't forget The Chinese tennis player who disappeared; Peng Shuai, a former world number one in doubles. She went missing in November 2021 after accusing a former high-ranking Chinese official of sexual assault on social media. Her posts were quickly censored, and a major international outcry followed, with many people demanding to know her whereabouts and safety.

[DastardlyDick]

any nationality can be coerced/trafficked

True, but I believe that traffiking/coercion is much more prevalent among Chinese girls than other ethnic groups.
Obviously, I look for signs of coercion in any SP.

[Massage Bloke]

True, but I believe that traffiking/coercion is much more prevalent among Chinese girls than other ethnic groups.
Obviously, I look for signs of coercion in any SP.

Andrew Tate and his brother have been charged in connection with alleged large scale EE traffiking.

[Heph]

I don't get it. If you go to a parlour where someone speaks little or no English, how can you do the most basic due diligence of asking whether they're there willingly? Spelling it out - if you have sex with someone who has been trafficked, coerced and possibly threatened with who knows what, there's not much difference between that and rape.

The language competency, lack thereof, is part of it. Employers are only granted employment permits for overseas applicants if no British resident is capable of doing or available to do a given job, and the job must either pay a certain rate; or have an exemption. Examples which apply to males might be taxi-drivers, halal butchers, or 'chefs', where knowledge of and expertise in certain cuisine might be deemed essential. Back to the sex-trade, nail-bars, massage venues, restaurants and garment manufacturers provide the necessary cover for the required 'expertise', and this is helped by the interchangeability of the applicants and language barriers - for example if someone only speaks (or pretends to) with a dialect that's not straightforward to translate, the process of establishing if they're legitimate workers is prone to delay and obfuscation.

So, we have to ask ourselves, what's the likelihood that, say, a waitress, a nail bar or beauty-parlour assistant, who has no fluency in English, is really here because they're an essential worker and earning above £25k - and if the answer is 'not-likely', and the venue, whatever it is, is associated with nations known to be knee-deep in trafficking, then there's a better chance that we, as patrons, are abetting that which we claim to abhor.

any nationality can be coerced/trafficked

There's an exponentially higher risk and occurrence in/from poorer nations.

True, but I believe that traffiking/coercion is much more prevalent among Chinese girls than other ethnic groups.
Obviously, I look for signs of coercion in any SP.

We really can put most East-Asian nations in this at-risk category; with exceptions for Japan and South Korea.

[JontyR]

I think the biggest influence isn't the Chinese authorities, it's the customers. If there's no demand, there'll be no supply. There are plenty of other places to buy sex where the women are in clearly control of their situation.

That's a different matter entirely. The question that was being raised was about the welfare of any trafficked workers who came to the attention of the authorities in the UK. And of their families.

(response to other quotes)

It's one thing suspecting that a home nations authorities may turn a blind eye to their own people being smuggled, its quite another to actually have the matter confirmed and publicised. There isn't a country in the world whose population will take kindly to the thought of their young women being sexually exploited by groups of anonymous men of a different nation for the finanical gain of others.

[JontyR]

There's an exponentially higher risk and occurrence in/from poorer nations.

But that doesn't negate the risk in the "first world". Look at the front pages of the papers this week. It's on the grooming gangs that knocked Prince Andrew off the front pages.

[midspunter]

any nationality can be coerced/trafficked

This is no doubt true but the bigger point is that nationality is unimportant but language is crucial. If you are dealing with anyone who doesn't have good English, you're likely going to be unable to even begin to work out if something really bad is happening to them.

Of course, proper dialogue isn't a guarantee they're not being coerced - they might say they're OK when they're not - but it is very definitely a good start. Only seeing women who you can actually talk to is surely part of Ethical Punting 101?

[paul_tall_]

True, but I believe that traffiking/coercion is much more prevalent among Chinese girls than other ethnic groups.
Obviously, I look for signs of coercion in any SP.

Perhaps in massage/beauty parlours, but other nationalities in the world of sp's Thai, Romanian (maybe disguised Albanians), Brazilians are equally at risk , plus other nations.
Different industries have different sets most nail bars are Vietnamese, barbers are Albanian, car washes the Albanian, other Eastern European and there are other of industries that have groups of nationalities
Most of these areas cash is king have you ever asked for a receipt?, and they have popped up everywhere as they are cheap to set up and appear to not get closed down and often are putting traditional businesses out of business

[paul_tall_]

The language competency, lack thereof, is part of it. Employers are only granted employment permits for overseas applicants if no British resident is capable of doing or available to do a given job, and the job must either pay a certain rate; or have an exemption.

Many of the people dont have a right to work in the UK full time, have arrived legally on tourist or student visas, short term business visitor/short term type visas
I think i read somewhere the recording of exits and overstaying is poorly managed

[Massage Bloke]

Many of the people dont have a right to work in the UK full time, have arrived legally on tourist or student visas, short term business visitor/short term type visas
I think i read somewhere the recording of exits and overstaying is poorly managed

What a surprise!

[DastardlyDick]

Many of the people dont have a right to work in the UK full time, have arrived legally on tourist or student visas, short term business visitor/short term type visas
I think i read somewhere the recording of exits and overstaying is poorly managed

Even big Companies get caught - a few years ago, a well known Supermarket chain got heavily fined for employing people who were here on Student Visas.
We've always had a "black" economy. Many, many years ago British Steel got caught paying the unemployed cash in hand to work at one of their factories, even sending vans to certain locations to collect them.

[Mstar86]

Even big Companies get caught - a few years ago, a well known Supermarket chain got heavily fined for employing people who were here on Student Visas.
We've always had a "black" economy. Many, many years ago British Steel got caught paying the unemployed cash in hand to work at one of their factories, even sending vans to certain locations to collect them.

People being here/working here illegally is extremely different to women who are trafficked, coerced and forced into prostitution.

[snaitram99]

People being here/working here illegally is extremely different to women who are trafficked, coerced and forced into prostitution.

Most of the Thai ladies in massage shops seem to be long term residents, after marriage to a Brit, maybe children, and often divorce, by then having acquired permanent residence and presumably right to work.

[paul_tall_]

People being here/working here illegally is extremely different to women who are trafficked, coerced and forced into prostitution.

There can be cross over, ie overseas job advertised in home country on socials etc , visa my not be fully legit for full time working, person may be due to pay a fair amount of money for them arranging job . visa etc but can be paid out of earnings , gets here has passport confiscated and huge debt to pay. It didn't start out as what they expected but has become coercion .

[ian cognito]

I was the author of two of the reviews referenced above. At the time (2 years ago), I was happy that the ladies I saw were there voluntarily and even part of the management.
I do frequent a couple of establishments in the Bristol/WsM area that are run by the principal (owner?) with one "assistant" on rotation. I am wondering whether these assistants are hired from some central organisation. I have been told by one of my regulars that "something has happened to my business" and she is now operating on her own. She operates from a discrete flat, not a shop, so unlikely to have been raided. Maybe the recent police activities have disrupted the supply of women on rotation?
Any thoughts on that Scutty?

[scutty brown]

I was the author of two of the reviews referenced above. At the time (2 years ago), I was happy that the ladies I saw were there voluntarily and even part of the management.
I do frequent a couple of establishments in the Bristol/WsM area that are run by the principal (owner?) with one "assistant" on rotation. I am wondering whether these assistants are hired from some central organisation. I have been told by one of my regulars that "something has happened to my business" and she is now operating on her own. She operates from a discrete flat, not a shop, so unlikely to have been raided. Maybe the recent police activities have disrupted the supply of women on rotation?
Any thoughts on that Scutty?

Yes in many cases the girls are rented for a week or fortnight or longer from one of many Chinese OCGs. Some of these can be identified through the links on Vivastreet accounts, but not always. But from the numbers involved - some having 100+ profiles online - it's clear there's a lot of organisation going on (with a lot of obfuscation and misdirection over identities).
As to "something happened to her business", could be many things. She might be getting blackmailed/threatened by a rival OCG into not using a specific groups girls. She might have been threatened with the red paint treatment if she didn't take a lower profile. Or there may have been attacks on the girls with a deliberate view to intimidation (happens more often than you may realise.
You'll likely never know the real specific reason - the chinese trafficking community is too close and controlled, anyone telling tales will know what to expect.

[Massage Bloke]

Scutty, was the red paint mystery ever solved?  That was a starange episode  Or perhaps it's still going on.

[Heph]

People being here/working here illegally is extremely different to women who are trafficked, coerced and forced into prostitution.

The loose application of checks on the former group enables much more of the latter. It would be much more difficult to traffic & coerce if borders and leave to stay were properly monitored and enforced.

[scutty brown]

Continuing with the "something happened to her business" meme, this news article from a few months back is worth reading
External Link/Members Only.
It's not strictly relevant to these arrests in Wiltshire, but it gives an interesting insight. Especially the link between chinese prostitution, and imports of fake cigarettes, cannabis and fentanyl. The parlours would be easy places to launder money through.

Residents of a London street repeatedly targeted in a wave of “red paint attacks” have accused the police of shying away from confronting a Chinese gang war they believe is taking place in the capital.

London Centric has pieced together at least a dozen incidents across the city, sometimes accompanied by violent hammer attacks, in which a gang has thrown red paint and motor oil over properties before writing the word “brothel” on walls. Leading criminologist Oliver Chan said the intimidation tactic has its roots in Chinese triad gangs enforcing debt repayments, while footage obtained by this publication showed one set of attackers speaking Mandarin with accents from mainland China.

David McKelvey, a former Met police officer who specialises in investigating organised crime gangs in the UK, told London Centric it “might just be the beginning of a gang war where people try to take power”. He warned that the Met, after rounds of austerity-led cuts, lacks specialist knowledge of the capital’s Chinese-language criminal scene which is run by rival ancient groups, known as triads.

Neighbours of one street in West Hampstead said they repeatedly raised concerns for the welfare of women living in a suspected brothel on their road when homes along their street were covered in red paint and had windows smashed on multiple nights in late 2023. Out of desperation the local residents paid for a private investigator to go undercover in the property to gather evidence that it was operating as an illegal brothel.

"I think the police are scared," said one local resident, who had tried to contact them. "The police don't seem to be interested in the triads.”

The flat in West Hampstead was occupied by a man and woman who told neighbours they were a couple from Hong Kong, along with multiple other women. One resident, who like others asked to remain anonymous for their safety, said at least three women were living in the flat and that all claimed to be students studying in the UK but could not speak English.

“There is always a concern that there may be sex trafficking,” said the neighbour, who emphasised he saw no hard evidence that the women were being held against their will.

They said police officers finally responded when a number of neighbouring properties showing visibly Jewish symbols were attacked with red paint, which prompted fears the incidents could be linked to anti-semitism. The Camden New Journal reported at the time that police had contacted the flat’s landlord who said the property was not a brothel.

“There’s a real gap in legislation because the actual thing of prostitution isn’t illegal, it’s the soliciting and the pimping which is illegal,” one police officer told the newspaper at the time. “It’s a grey area.”

When the West Hampstead property was targeted the final time with red paint, the man living in the suspected brothel ran out of the property and confronted the “red paint gang” on the street.

Multiple neighbours said the gang then attacked the man with hammers, while video seen by London Centric shows the alleged attackers getting into a red car with a clearly visible numberplate. Residents passed this footage to the police, one neighbour said, but she had not heard of any response. Shortly afterwards the flat was left empty and all the residents moved out.

"The only reason it stopped was the guy running the brothel got beaten up,” claimed one resident.

McKelvey, the former Met police officer, now runs a private investigation business called TM Eye specialising in investigating organised Chinese crime in the UK. He said the triads operating in the capital are a very sophisticated network which rejects outsiders: “Having spent most of my career fighting organised crime they are the most organised I’ve seen.”

He said the groups are heavily involved in the illegal manufacturing of fake cigarettes, the importation of fentanyl, as well as human trafficking and slavery offences. He described “a very structured network” where money flows back to China, often using the WeChat platform: “You’ve got a perfect storm of organised criminals doing low-risk, high-reward crimes. They’re almost left to get on with it.”

The Met did not respond to a request for comment.

McKelvey said seized phones often show triad gang members are offering prostitution alongside fake cigarettes and cannabis. But he was surprised by the suggestion that Chinese gangs would be turning on each other on the streets of London and across the UK: “We’ve seen no violence or weapons in the premises we’ve raided. Saying that, you know what criminals are like, you could see a new kid on the block pushing his luck.”

He said the recent influx of former Hong Kong residents into the capital had changed the balance of the community but triads operating in the UK tend to eschew violence in favour of highly-profitable but low-profile crimes that don’t hit police performance targets.

The residents of West Hampstead said they were concerned for the welfare of the women who used to lived in the alleged brothel and the potential links to organised crime, especially amid police inaction. Although the paint attacks stopped when the targeted residents left the flat, the man who lived in the property remains in the area, they said, insisting that they had seen him since in local supermarkets.

Emily Chalke, the founder of the anti-trafficking charity Ella’s, said she did not know the specifics of these incidents but described how trafficked women can be kept in London’s brothels against their will: “A lot of women say they’re told ‘no one will help, you will get in trouble if you tell anyone’. If you’ve been brought here and you’re illegal then you don’t know the consequences. People are really trapped on all levels because who do you go to for help and who do you trust?”

She said her organisation sometimes found police reluctant to intervene in such cases whether due to “lack of resource” or “feeling it’s better not to rock the boat”.

Chalke said a woman recently came to one of her charity’s homes after neighbours called the police four times due to her screams and the violence she was experiencing: “She was being exploited and yet each time she wanted somewhere safe to go there was nowhere — either you come with us to the station or you stay.”

McKelvey, the former Met police detective, said the “policing is moving away from specialist crime” and sending more officers to boroughs to deal with domestic violence and rapes. “All that’s going to happen is they’ll leave a vacuum, the criminals will commit more serious organised crime, that will filter down and you’ll get more street crime.”

He added: “The Met used to have a squad that dealt with Chinese crime and criminality but it’s long since disbanded — the police’s knowledge of what’s going on is not up to date.”

this map (also from that news report) is interesting - it puts into context the number of places just in London alone that have have had the red paint treatment

Hidden Image/Members Only

[Massage Bloke]

Scutty, thanks for posting that article.  I think times are changing. The Chinese gangsters of old, in the UK would never break the surface. But the high profile nature of the paint attacks, and the newspaper articles that follow, must mean that there are new people involved and they that don't behave as others used to. 

[scutty brown]

It's big business, in the form of competing Chinese OCGs enforcing takeover and expansion of the Asian massage parlour / sex trade business  in the UK. It's a repeat of how the Chinese takeaway/restaurant trade was "migrated" from mainly Hong Kong origin family-owned businesses to mainland Chinese owned around 30 years ago through intimidation and enforcement.
Now you've got competing mainland groups from different cities fighting each other to gain control of what were originally notionally independent massage/sex businesses. And those groups need the shops as cover for the money generated by the drugs and fags smuggling - it goes through the books of the massage shops

[Massage Bloke]

It's big business, in the form of competing Chinese OCGs enforcing takeover and expansion of the Asian massage parlour / sex trade business  in the UK. It's a repeat of how the Chinese takeaway/restaurant trade was "migrated" from mainly Hong Kong origin family-owned businesses to mainland Chinese owned around 30 years ago through intimidation and enforcement.
Now you've got competing mainland groups from different cities fighting each other to gain control of what were originally notionally independent massage/sex businesses. And those groups need the shops as cover for the money generated by the drugs and fags smuggling - it goes through the books of the massage shops

I see what you mean.

The red paint thing, seemed like a lot of trouble to go to over possible massage shop rivalry. But if the shops are being used for laundering,  there could be a lot of money at stake.

Thinking about it a bit further, there are very few cash based businesses around these days, as we go over to a cashless society (for better or worse). 

So  i  suppose the massage shops could be vital.

[paul_tall_]

It's big business, in the form of competing Chinese OCGs enforcing takeover and expansion of the Asian massage parlour / sex trade business  in the UK. It's a repeat of how the Chinese takeaway/restaurant trade was "migrated" from mainly Hong Kong origin family-owned businesses to mainland Chinese owned around 30 years ago through intimidation and enforcement.
Now you've got competing mainland groups from different cities fighting each other to gain control of what were originally notionally independent massage/sex businesses. And those groups need the shops as cover for the money generated by the drugs and fags smuggling - it goes through the books of the massage shops

I’m part way through a book by Geoff White called Rinsed , and it seems rather than putting money through orgainsations money in the placement stage they are using weak exchanges 

[Henry767]

I don't see the logic of suggesting that crime money from other activities is put through the books of massage shops.

These shops already have a disparity between their legal, accounted income - the massage price- and the cash for extras paid to the masseuse. Shop owners don't seem happy to have the tips put through the card machines as it shows as profit, snd the running expenses are pretty fixed so extra income attracts business and personal taxation.
The regular massage ladies in London seem a pretty independent bunch, those with certificates and solid legal status know they have the upper hand with the shop owners and csn choose the work that suits them best.
Of course, those with non legal status are more vulnerable, but the fines for employers sre so large now that it must deter those who think of taking a chance.

[PilotMan]

I don't see the logic of suggesting that crime money from other activities is put through the books of massage shops.

These shops already have a disparity between their legal, accounted income - the massage price- and the cash for extras paid to the masseuse. Shop owners don't seem happy to have the tips put through the card machines as it shows as profit, snd the running expenses are pretty fixed so extra income attracts business and personal taxation.

Paying tax isn't the issue.

How do you think money gets laundered and why?

If money is obtained illegally, it means it can't go in to the banking system and can't be used in day to day life, such as buying property etc.

Running it through a "legitimate" business, and paying tax on it, allows it to enter the financial system and it can therefore be used for the same thing as non "ill gotten gains".

[paul_tall_]

I see the 3 people arrested have pleaded guilty and have been remanded in custody and there were warrants served at 7 parlours

[Maak]

What happens to the punters who get caught up in the premises during a police raid??? Do the punters get charged with any offence or do they have to go down to the police station  & face questioning?

[scutty brown]

I see the 3 people arrested have pleaded guilty and have been remanded in custody and there were warrants served at 7 parlours

External Link/Members Only

[scutty brown]

What happens to the punters who get caught up in the premises during a police raid??? Do the punters get charged with any offence or do they have to go down to the police station  & face questioning?

Quite possibly.
Depends on what the police find or suspect. Fuck a trafficking victim and you're potentially going to jail - whether you knew she was or not

[scutty brown]

External Link/Members Only
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yet these adverts for one of the Chippenham sites are still live

[paul_tall_]

yet these adverts for one of the Chippenham sites are still live

The actual domains and websites for the parlours I guess would depend on who owns the domains (redacted on the register) and pays for the hosting . If it’s the people arrested then they may not have access to shut down the sites . Could well be someone else ie the web dev companies or some other wider group . Unless any bills for hosting go unpaid I guess they remain up until someone closes them or as part of the court proceedings they are instructed to shut , if they are hosted abroad then it would be more complex I would imagine to get them taken down .
The adverts on the other sites obviously just remain similarly until those sites remove them if they are paid adverts and no one pays .
It’s an interesting point about what happens to websites in criminal cases  , there is a value in both the domain being resold and potentially the website itself self .
You read quite often how difficult it is for companies to get fake sites shut down and these aren’t fake .

 

[paul_tall_]

Continuing with the "something happened to her business" meme, this news article from a few months back is worth reading
External Link/Members Only.
It's not strictly relevant to these arrests in Wiltshire, but it gives an interesting insight. Especially the link between chinese prostitution, and imports of fake cigarettes, cannabis and fentanyl. The parlours would be easy places to launder money through.

this map (also from that news report) is interesting - it puts into context the number of places just in London alone that have have had the red paint treatment

Hidden Image/Members Only

i noticed a story in The Sun yesterday re a property in Dagenham where a family discuss their property being targetted by a rival gang due to the flat above them being a brothel External Link/Members Only

[paul_tall_]

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another set of houses targeted in red paint, various articles mention kilburn