Author Topic: Cyber warfare!..  (Read 959 times)

Offline Watts.E.Dunn

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Attenshun squad!!

Slope keyboards! engage mice! Quick march!! Right clik/ Left click\ Right clik/Left click\ Right clik/ left click/........HALT ...... Escape key....

Online scutty brown

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Only really new element in that story is the reference to Corsham........have they reopened the underground quarry citadel?

Offline RandomGuy99

Fibre optic drones that the Ukrainians are now using to workaround radio-based ones being jammed seemed more interesting but there must now be miles of fibre optic cable lying around their country and it's a little dangerous as you can follow them back to where the operator was and then mine that area for the next time someone visits or get its location pinpointed, so you can call in mortar or artillery fire on it whenever you like.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2025, 12:05:11 pm by RandomGuy99 »

Online DastardlyDick

Fibre optic drones that the Ukrainians are now using to workaround radio-based ones being jammed seemed more interesting but there must now be miles of fibre optic cable lying around their country and it's a little dangerous as you can follow them back to where the operator was and then mine that area for the next time someone visits or get its location pinpointed, so you can call in mortar or artillery fire on it whenever you like.
They probably have time to reel it back in - no danger of an immediate counter attack, the drones have killed the iRussian Infantry.

Offline RandomGuy99

They probably have time to reel it back in - no danger of an immediate counter attack, the drones have killed the iRussian Infantry.
They don't reel it back in. It's like the Milan anti-tank missile, that is wire guided and the wire just gets left on the battlefield External Link/Members Only

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« Last Edit: May 29, 2025, 01:38:38 pm by RandomGuy99 »

Offline mrwhite

Fibre optic drones that the Ukrainians are now using to workaround radio-based ones being jammed seemed more interesting but there must now be miles of fibre optic cable lying around their country and it's a little dangerous as you can follow them back to where the operator was and then mine that area for the next time someone visits or get its location pinpointed, so you can call in mortar or artillery fire on it whenever you like.

It can be difficult to track 6 miles of FOC across a battlefield and back into Russian lines that are well defended in the hope that they use the same spot to attack more than once.

Offline RandomGuy99

It can be difficult to track 6 miles of FOC across a battlefield and back into Russian lines that are well defended in the hope that they use the same spot to attack more than once.
True, but probably with the right lights you can see them for miles.  I am assuming they use launch positions that are suitably located to try to avoid tangling the cable immediately

Online scutty brown

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What's always confused me is how the TV-guided version of the Navy's Martel anti-ship missile managed not to break its controlling cable when launched from a Buccaneer. Did the aircraft have to fly straight and level before the missile struck? Did it rely on the speed difference between aircraft and missile to keep the wire taught and stop it snagging on the aircraft? Never managed to understand just how they did it.

Offline RandomGuy99

What's always confused me is how the TV-guided version of the Navy's Martel anti-ship missile managed not to break its controlling cable when launched from a Buccaneer. Did the aircraft have to fly straight and level before the missile struck? Did it rely on the speed difference between aircraft and missile to keep the wire taught and stop it snagging on the aircraft? Never managed to understand just how they did it.
No, the **Martel missile did not use a physical cable** connected to the launching aircraft.

However, it's understandable why that idea might come up, especially with the **AJ.168 TV-guided version**, because it did involve **real-time communication between the missile and the aircraft**. Here's how it actually worked:

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### 🔹 **AJ.168 Martel – TV-Guided Version (No Cable)**

* The missile had a **TV camera in its nose** that sent a live video feed back to the launching aircraft via a **radio frequency (RF) data link**—not a wire.
* The **weapons officer or pilot** watched this video feed and manually guided the missile using a joystick or similar controls.
* The guidance commands were also sent via **radio link**, not through any physical connection.
* Once the missile was close enough to the target, it could be:

  * Steered manually all the way into the target.
  * Or, locked onto a visually acquired target and then continue autonomously.

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### 💬 Why No Cable?

* A **cable or wire** would dramatically limit range, maneuverability, and safety, especially when dealing with air-launched missiles.
* **Wire-guided missiles** are typically found in **short-range, ground-launched** systems (like the TOW missile), not long-range air-to-surface ones.

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### Summary:

🛑 **No physical cable.**
✅ **Two-way radio data link** between missile and aircraft for video transmission and control in the AJ.168 version.

Let me know if you want a visual diagram of how the data link worked.

Offline Watts.E.Dunn

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I'd have thought the Ruskis would be using Ultra Wide Band radio by now. It covers frequncies from DC to daylight and as its a frequency hopping system is very difficult to jam or decode.

Unless you can fire kilowatts of power at an incoinging drone or missile, bit difficult to do on a battlefield!....

« Last Edit: May 30, 2025, 03:18:13 pm by Watts.E.Dunn »

Offline RandomGuy99

I'd have thought the Ruskis would be using Ultra Wide Band radio by now. It covers frequncies from DC to daylight and as its a frequency hopping system is very difficult to jam or decode.

Unless you can fire kilowatts of power at an incoinging drone or missile, bit difficult to do on a battlefield!....
Ultra Wide Band is short range which isn't suitable for controlling drones that are traveling miles.

Offline Watts.E.Dunn

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It can be if you want it to that is, maybe here Ofcom might frown on it but over there?..

Thats if the Ruskis can engineerr that?...

Online scutty brown

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RandomGuy99
Thanks for that, clears up something I could never make sense of.
Comes from a 1970s MOD film which shows a whole squadron carrying out a practice strike. The commentator is at pains to show the Martel as wire guided.
Probably military disinformation - unless he got confused with the Wessex 5 Junglies, which did have wired missiles.
I think the film was of 12 squadron - that one with the Vangelis score

Offline RandomGuy99

RandomGuy99
Thanks for that, clears up something I could never make sense of.
Comes from a 1970s MOD film which shows a whole squadron carrying out a practice strike. The commentator is at pains to show the Martel as wire guided.
Probably military disinformation - unless he got confused with the Wessex 5 Junglies, which did have wired missiles.
I think the film was of 12 squadron - that one with the Vangelis score
The "wire" is probably the antenna on the missile, but it's not connected to the aircraft.

Wire-guided missiles on helicopters are a type of anti-tank or precision-guided munition that remain connected to the launch platform (the helicopter) via a thin wire during flight. This system allows the operator to guide the missile all the way to the target using real-time input. Here's how they work in detail:

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### 🔧 Basic Components

1. **Missile** – Carries a warhead, propulsion, control surfaces, and guidance electronics.
2. **Wire Spool** – A long, extremely thin wire (often made of materials like copper or steel) is wound on the missile and unspools as it flies.
3. **Launcher** – Mounted on the helicopter, provides the initial launch force and communicates with the missile.
4. **Guidance System** – Typically SACLOS (Semi-Automatic Command to Line of Sight), meaning the operator keeps the crosshairs on the target, and the missile is guided automatically to follow.

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### 🚁 Step-by-Step Operation

1. **Target Acquisition**

   * The operator (gunner) uses optical sights or infrared sensors to identify and lock onto a target.

2. **Launch**

   * The missile is fired from a launcher on the helicopter.
   * The wire begins to unspool behind the missile as it flies.

3. **Mid-Flight Guidance**

   * The operator keeps the target centered in their sight.
   * The system calculates how far off the missile is from the line of sight and sends correction signals through the wire.
   * Small control surfaces on the missile adjust its trajectory in response.

4. **Impact**

   * Once the missile reaches the target, the warhead detonates (usually a shaped charge to penetrate armor).
   * The wire is often severed or burns up just before impact.

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### 📌 Key Features & Limitations

**Advantages:**

* **High Accuracy:** Constant correction allows precision targeting.
* **ECM Resistance:** Not easily jammed because the wire can't be electronically interfered with.
* **Low Cost:** Simpler electronics than fully autonomous guidance systems.

**Limitations:**

* **Shorter Range:** Typically a few kilometers (e.g., TOW missile \~3.75 km max).
* **Vulnerability:** The helicopter must maintain visual contact and line-of-sight, often requiring it to hover or stay exposed.
* **Wire Limits:** Can be snapped by obstacles or if the missile maneuvers too aggressively.

---

### 🔍 Examples of Wire-Guided Missiles Used by Helicopters

* **BGM-71 TOW** – Used on AH-1 Cobra variants and other platforms.
* **9M114 Shturm (AT-6 Spiral)** – Soviet equivalent, used on Mi-24 Hind.

---

### ⚠️ Modern Trend

While wire-guided systems were widely used, modern helicopters increasingly favor **fire-and-forget** or **laser-guided** missiles like the AGM-114 Hellfire, which allow the aircraft to break contact and maneuver immediately after firing.

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Let me know if you want diagrams or animations to visualize how it works.