Author Topic: A mother drowned her Sons in Dagenham sentence to 21 years  (Read 1718 times)

Offline puntingking

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A mother who drowned her two young sons in the bath in what a judge described as "the stuff of nightmares" has been sentenced to life imprisonment.

Kara Alexander, 47, of Dagenham, was found guilty of murdering Elijah Thomas, two, and Marley Thomas, five, at their Cornwallis Road home in 2022.

Sentencing her to at least 21 years and 252 days, Mr Justice Bennathan said Alexander had been in a psychotic state after smoking cannabis and had "unspeakably" held them underwater for "up to a minute or two".

Met Police detective Paul Waller said to the boys' family that "no amount of time will erase the pain of such a loss but I hope this sentence serves to bring some semblance of justice".


Absolutely shocking and sickening. The one person who should've kept them from danger and love them was the one who murdered them.  :mad: :mad: :angry:


Offline RandomGuy99


Offline timsussex

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Drugs are just bad

But Cannabis is no worse than alcohol or tobacco  :unknown: or so the people pushing for legalisation keep telling us
« Last Edit: April 11, 2025, 03:36:01 pm by timsussex »

Offline RMwonderer

Sickening. Should’ve got a whole life order.

Offline Blackpool Rock

But Cannabis is no worse than alcohol or tobacco  :unknown: or so the people pushing for legalisation keep telling us
I've never been into drugs but as I recall back in the 80's people were saying that cannabis was a lot stronger than it was back in the 60's and 70's however i'm led to believe some of the modern stuff is was stronger again.

Yes there are plenty of people pushing for legalisation and claiming it's either harmless or that alcohol is worse etc but I just keep hearing more and more about how people become paranoid etc when using it and then there's shit like this  :thumbsdown:
The other issue is that it's often a gateway to other things 

Offline daviemac

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Offline webpunter

Sickening. Should’ve got a whole life order.

Abso-fucking-lutely

Some fluffy bollox from the judge
The judge said Alexander will mourn her sons for the rest of her life.
"From all that I have read and seen of you, I have no doubt that every day when you awake you will remember and grieve for the little boys whose lives you snatched away," he said.


Get real she drowned two young children who would have been scared shitless
The only thing to hope for is that it didn't take long

Its like being in a psychotic state coz of taking drugs is OK
Oooh she needs some help
No its fucking not OK
As for help IMO she needs to rot in prison until departing for the next life
She's going to hell thats for sure

I hope she gets a periodic pasting whilst banged up
So she's constantly looking over her shoulder waiting for the next time
In fear not anywhere close to what her young sons experienced

Offline myothernameis

Sickening. Should’ve got a whole life order.

Axel Rudakubana was  sentenced to a minimum  52 years, so any murder of children should carry the same long sentence, as should Kara Alexander


Offline puntingking

Sickening. Should’ve got a whole life order.

whole life orders are extremely rare in the uk. Even more rarer for female criminals.

Online DastardlyDick

Sickening. Should’ve got a whole life order.
Absolutely - 21 years  is next to nothing.

Offline george r

should have got 35 yrs and no time off for good behaviour 

Offline Jomoore

Sickening. Should’ve got a whole life order.

Horrible incident.  I'm no lefty softy, but for a mother to do that shows beyond doubt that she was unbalanced at the time, whatever the cause of that.
So I think a whole life order, which reflects intent and premeditation amongst other things, is somehow wrong. I'd have thought a hospital order would have fitted the circumstances better.

Offline timsussex

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Horrible incident.  I'm no lefty softy, but for a mother to do that shows beyond doubt that she was unbalanced at the time, whatever the cause of that.
So I think a whole life order, which reflects intent and premeditation amongst other things, is somehow wrong. I'd have thought a hospital order would have fitted the circumstances better.

you could argue that for any horrific crime - no-one in their right mind would do what Fred & Rose West did

Offline daviemac

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Horrible incident.  I'm no lefty softy, but for a mother to do that shows beyond doubt that she was unbalanced at the time, whatever the cause of that.
So I think a whole life order, which reflects intent and premeditation amongst other things, is somehow wrong. I'd have thought a hospital order would have fitted the circumstances better.
Do you not think all aspects of the case were put to the court during the hearing with her defence team looking at anything they could use including diminished responsibility?   :unknown:

I haven't checked in this case but pre sentencing reports are usually the norm and they include psychological. 

Offline Jomoore

Do you not think all aspects of the case were put to the court during the hearing with her defence team looking at anything they could use including diminished responsibility?   :unknown:

I haven't checked in this case but pre sentencing reports are usually the norm and they include psychological.

I'm sure the defence did what it needed to do, but my feeling re the sentence remains.

Offline daviemac

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I'm sure the defence did what it needed to do, but my feeling re the sentence remains.
Perhaps she should have had you on her defence team or perhaps you could have advised the judge?  Though I would suspect he considered all the evidence, listened to the mitigation put forward by the defence and read the reports prepared by experts before following sentencing guidelines and giving the sentence he did.   :unknown:

From what I've read there was no mention of a 'diminished responsibility' plea which I believe is needed for a hospital order to be given.

Edit

A slight correction to the above statement.

Quote
IN serious cases a court can make a hospital order on conviction as an alternative to a custodial sentence.

A court can order an individual be detained in a hospital for a specified or indefinite length of time if the judge is satisfied, on the evidence of two medical experts, that the offender is suffering from a mental disorder which is of a nature or degree which makes it appropriate.

Where the court has made such an order, known as a Section 37 Hospital Order, it may also impose restrictions. Before they make a Section 41 Restrictions Order they must be satisfied that it is necessary to do so to protect the public from serious harm.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2025, 10:09:45 pm by daviemac »

Offline puntingking



I think it doesnt matter if the crime was or wearnt pre planned.
For me, a crime is a crime.

If you cant do the time, dont do the crime. Simple. Nothing else left to say about that really.

A murder is a murder regardless.
A whole life order would be the only suitable punishment seeing as though the two youngs lives cant be brought back.
 

Offline Dark Vader

Who knows how old they would have lived to but if you think of the potential years of life that have been deprived here then why not a life order.

Offline Stevelondon

I get fed up of saying this, but I just can’t work out sentencing (of any crime) in the UK.

People being given 10 years who are out in less than half.
Life sentences being handed out that mean something completely different.



Offline Blackpool Rock

I get fed up of saying this, but I just can’t work out sentencing (of any crime) in the UK.

People being given 10 years who are out in less than half.
Life sentences being handed out that mean something completely different.
The ability for a prisoner to get parole is basically a way that the system tries to encourage inmates to behave while inside, ie early release "for good behaviour"   so that they don't assault prison warders etc

The thing is that the public want more people sending to prison and for longer sentences however we don't have enough space to hold them, I don't actually believe that people are markedly worse members of society now than they were 50 or 100 years ago  :unknown:
I'm sure that i've also watched historical programs where they have stated that person XYZ was sent to prison for a very serious crime and then thinking their sentence was hardly anything for what they'd done

Offline RadioKid

The ability for a prisoner to get parole is basically a way that the system tries to encourage inmates to behave while inside, ie early release "for good behaviour"   so that they don't assault prison warders etc

The thing is that the public want more people sending to prison and for longer sentences however we don't have enough space to hold them, I don't actually believe that people are markedly worse members of society now than they were 50 or 100 years ago  :unknown:
I'm sure that i've also watched historical programs where they have stated that person XYZ was sent to prison for a very serious crime and then thinking their sentence was hardly anything for what they'd done

Yep.

The other aim is that Prison rehabilitates criminals - and that criminals that leave will be more reflective and contribute to society. Unfortunately the absoloute state of UK Prisons means criminals largely come out worse.

Offline Jomoore

The ability for a prisoner to get parole is basically a way that the system tries to encourage inmates to behave while inside, ie early release "for good behaviour"   so that they don't assault prison warders etc

A far better system would be automatic time added on for bad behaviour, eg, extra year for assaulting an inmate; extra 5 yrs for assaulting an officer; extra 10 yrs for ABH on an officer, etc.

Offline timsussex

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A far better system would be automatic time added on for bad behaviour, eg, extra year for assaulting an inmate; extra 5 yrs for assaulting an officer; extra 10 yrs for ABH on an officer, etc.

and thats exactly what happens !  except it isnt and shouldnt be automatic even a prisoner is entitled to a trial

Any offence committed while in prison can be prosecuted and extra time added to the sentence if found guilty

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Offline daviemac

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I get fed up of saying this, but I just can’t work out sentencing (of any crime) in the UK.

People being given 10 years who are out in less than half.
Life sentences being handed out that mean something completely different.
The sentencing system is very simple, if you are sentenced to 10 years you serve 10 years, if you are sentenced to life you serve life.

The difference is where the sentence is actually served, in the case of 10 years the standard is 5 years in custody then 5 released on license. If you don't adhere to whatever conditions are put on the license you can be recalled to prison to serve the rest up until the end 10 year period.

Normally with a life sentence there will be a minimum tariff before the parole board consider release though once released if you don't adhere to the conditions you are libel to a recall to prison for the rest of your life.

Offline Stevelondon

The sentencing system is very simple, if you are sentenced to 10 years you serve 10 years, if you are sentenced to life you serve life.

The difference is where the sentence is actually served, in the case of 10 years the standard is 5 years in custody then 5 released on license. If you don't adhere to whatever conditions are put on the license you can be recalled to prison to serve the rest up until the end 10 year period.

Normally with a life sentence there will be a minimum tariff before the parole board consider release though once released if you don't adhere to the conditions you are libel to a recall to prison for the rest of your life.


Yes Davie. Believe it or not I understand how it works. I just pretend to be thick  :D

I was simply trying to get at how lenient I think our sentencing laws are. Just a personal thing really as I think someone being given 10 years. Should serve those 10 years in a prison rather than the luxury (and I believe it is a luxury) of being out in half that time. A license not being behind bars.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2025, 09:36:08 pm by Stevelondon »

Offline Jameson20

Had it been their Father who murdered them, he'd be on a whole life order.

Offline webpunter

Had it been their Father who murdered them, he'd be on a whole life order.

Without a shadow of a doubt
Two tier justice in the media very recently
Pre sentencing reports taking into account gender not forgetting the trans / gay communites & ethnicity & religion, quelle surprise
Defence briefs will bring into the equation the old chestnut 'a difficult childhood'  :rolleyes:
The overview was best not to commit a crime if you are male white & christian

Sympathetic words from the judge
IMO mindful of a very wide audience & giving the impression of understanding & caring
Such as things are in todays wokey world where people are given every get out from facing up to their responsibilities
Like somehow its not totally their fault
In this bitch from hells case a fervent drug addiction

IMO he was fine saying what he did but then could add, it doesn't make any difference you are still going to prison until you die or are close to death
And that anyone doing the same / similar should be totally aware of the consequences

Give it some years & she'll be interviewed by psychiatrists who will somehow conclude that she no longer poses any risk to the public
What they are missing [obvs] is that when there are draconian punishments dished out which arent subsequently reduced it will deter some [noted not all] from even thinking about murdering a child, or in her case two

Had the father been given the same sentence there would be outrage form everywhere calling for it to be increased
Our besties over @M-net would be in overdrive
Sooo distracted from being unloved & miserable they may even forget to eat chocolate [tho not for very long  :D]
Somehow it'll be the father's fault somewhere along the line
As its a woman unlikely that anyone will stick their head above the trenches for fear of being shot down in flames

Offline daviemac

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Give it some years & she'll be interviewed by psychiatrists who will somehow conclude that she no longer poses any risk to the public 
That can only happen after she has served the just under 22 years of the life sentence the judge set. Only the appeal court can reduce that.

Offline Doc Holliday

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Though I would suspect he considered all the evidence, listened to the mitigation put forward by the defence and read the reports prepared by experts before following sentencing guidelines and giving the sentence he did.   :unknown:


He did indeed. As I have posted many times before we were not at the trial, so it is always helpful to look at the Judge's sentencing remarks.  External Link/Members Only

Offline puntingking



The judge also looks into mitigated factors, You cant really compare like for like because each crime is different and each criminal may have their own mitigated factors.  :unknown:

Offline daviemac

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He did indeed. As I have posted many times before we were not at the trial, so it is always helpful to look at the Judge's sentencing remarks.  External Link/Members Only
According to some on this thread none of that matters Doc, the judge should have ignored all the legal guidelines and psychiatric reports and given her a whole life term. The fact doing that would give her grounds to appeal the sentence seems to have passed them by.

People suggesting a hospital order make me laugh, apart from the fact two doctors have to give evidence of mental health issues a person sentenced to one can apply for release after 6 months and if that fails every year thereafter. Once the mental health tribunal are satisfied you no longer have issues they release you.

I would suspect if in hospital she would be deemed fit for release long before the 24 years minimum prison term she has been sentenced to.