F1- 2025 season

[mr.bluesky]

Yeah we can, but think WP summed it up right. Ross Brawn described it perfectly when he said Schumacher would have moments where he would ‘short circuit’ and his competitive nature would override his logic. I’m also in agreement with you that he’s the best driver of all time, and yeah, without the DQs in Britain and Belgium and the two-race ban he would have won the title at a canter, just as he did in 95.

I would say the late Ayrton Senna was the greatest driver of all time. Who knows how many more World titles he would have won if he hadn't lost his life in that crash in the San Marino grand prix.  I think Senna was the greatest wet weather driver, it never seemed to effect him.

[chrishornx]

I would say the late Ayrton Senna was the greatest driver of all time. Who knows how many more World titles he would have won if he hadn't lost his life in that crash in the San Marino grand prix.  I think Senna was the greatest wet weather driver, it never seemed to effect him.

so difficult to compare generations

Senna won 3 championships in 8 years whilst in a similar period Fangio won 5 and did so with 4 different constructors so difficult to say he won due to having the best car

[ratedj]

I would say the late Ayrton Senna was the greatest driver of all time. Who knows how many more World titles he would have won if he hadn't lost his life in that crash in the San Marino grand prix.  I think Senna was the greatest wet weather driver, it never seemed to effect him.

Can absolutely understand this, and my non-biased mind would probably go for Senna. Schumacher was also just as good in the wet. Also think Alain Prost is criminally underrated during these GOAT debates.

[webpunter]

Senna's first season saw him go from 13th to 2nd in Monaco when it was lashing it down
Cancelling races back then didn't happen
Nowadays the FIA elf & safety wouldn't have let the race start
That is some over-taking at a circuit where its all but impossible
Especially in a slower car, well in the dry the wet weather evened things up
Likely that Senna would have finished first other than for lobbying from Prost's team to have the race cancelled
Fearful that Senna would also overtake him
No doubt making sure it was someone speaking french doing the lobbying 

[webpunter]

Tbf I think he realised he crossed a line, and following the incident he did drive with a greater level of etiquette.

When MV was trailing by miles he came across as much more relaxed
No doubt he figured that the 2025 title was beyond him & went on a bit of a charm offensive
The angst caused between him his father on one side & Karen on the other evaporated with the ginger whinger's departure

Comparing drivers agressive manouveres is soooo different than when Schumacher was behind the wheel
Not only infinitely more TV cameras but also on telemetry
The race organisers can see if drivers turned out / in braked / accelerated engine revs everything   

Like in Monaco 2022 when Checo spun out his RB when in P1 in Q3 towards the end of the session bringing this to a close
Thats why MV went off at the deep end as the telemitry showed that Perez dumped the throttle 

What i cant figure is how the teams get the cars to communicate with lots & lots of data ?
Have been to Silverstone various times & whilst mobiles mostly work stuff like watching also sky sports f1 on the mobile is at best patchy
150,000 people+ on mobile networks 
No idea what comms system they use
Not only the teams & drivers but also the race organisers who are constantly monitoring for DRS etc & getting lap times to 0.00x of a second

[Watts.E.Dunn]

Well they do NOT use mobile phone netwoks!

Heres bit of interting reading albeit a bit dated now but its the teams take, Reb Bull in this instance, but these days a version of TETRA is used. Trans Europen Trunked Terrestrial Radio, near as dammit is used..

External Link/Members Only


and.. these days..

Formula 1 team radio communications primarily utilize a sophisticated
TETRA digital radio system provided by Riedel Communications. This allows drivers to speak to their race engineers and teams to coordinate strategy, monitor car performance, and ensure safety.
System and Technology

    Provider: The main system is provided by Riedel Communications.
    Technology: It uses a TETRA (Terrestrial Trunked Radio) digital trunked radio system, which provides numerous simultaneous voice channels.
    Coverage: A network of antennas and receivers is placed around the entire track (roughly every 200 meters) to ensure seamless communication with the moving cars.
    Hardware: Teams often use specific radios like the Motorola MPX600 portable radios and Riedel MAX headsets.
    Privacy: While the audio from the car on track is shared with the FIA and some is broadcast for fans, communication in the garage is private. Also, drivers cannot talk directly to each other; messages to a teammate must go through an engineer first.

Communication Content and Rules
Communication between the driver and the pit wall is a critical part of race strategy and car management. However, the FIA (Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile), the sport's governing body, has strict rules about what can and cannot be communicated during a race to ensure the driver is "driving the car alone and unaided".
Permitted Messages

    Safety information: Warnings about yellow flags, debris on track, or dangerous situations.
    Pit stop instructions: When to pit and which tires to prepare.
    Traffic updates: Information on where other cars are during qualifying or a race.
    Irreversible problem alerts: Indication of a car problem that requires an immediate, irreversible action like pitting to fix it or retiring the car.
    Team orders: Instructions relating to teammates' positions on track.

Prohibited Messages

    Any messages related to the performance of the car or the driver, such as specific driving lines, braking points, or gear choices that help improve the driver's speed.

Fan Experience
F1 heavily features team radio snippets in its broadcasts and online content to provide drama and insight into the sport's tactics. Fans can listen to live, additional radio feeds via official F1 services like F1TV or through other platforms like Box Box Radio

[webpunter]

@W.E.D solid info 
Interesting stuff

[mrwhite]

Well Max the brat did well getting where he did albeit late in the series, but i think that Lando is improving with time.

Lewis if he can get a car that suits its him could be in the centention once again, but i will be very interested to see what happens at Aston Martin with new designer/engineer!..

Next year could be really interesting

New Aero rules for everyone
New tyre profile for everyone
New engine regulations
Adrian Newey designed Aston
Two new teams Audi and Chevrolet
Red Bull building their own engine for the first time

Now Helmut has left Red Bull, could Max follow?  If so where might Max go?

Anything could happen,

Ferrari could nail a design that is reliable and suits Hamilton’s driving style.  ALternatively they might drop him if Max comes on the market (then again Lewis has 2 years left of a 3 year $150m contract - can Ferrari (or any team) afford to pay off one driver to get rid of him AND then sign Max who will demand the same or more than Lewis got)
Aston Martin now have a car designed by the most successful designer of all time, coupled with a good engine Alonso could be back at the top (I'm guessing Lance will still stick it in the wall)
Red Bull's engine could be a dog - Max might find himself at the back of the pack week after week, if that happens expect lots of temper tantrums.

Audi or Chevrolet could pull off a miracle in their first season.

The first race will give some indication, but a few races might be needed to really see how things are going to pan out.

[bigden40]

Next year could be really interesting

New Aero rules for everyone
New tyre profile for everyone
New engine regulations
Adrian Newey designed Aston
Two new teams Audi and Chevrolet
Red Bull building their own engine for the first time

Now Helmut has left Red Bull, could Max follow?  If so where might Max go?

Anything could happen,

Ferrari could nail a design that is reliable and suits Hamilton’s driving style.  ALternatively they might drop him if Max comes on the market (then again Lewis has 2 years left of a 3 year $150m contract - can Ferrari (or any team) afford to pay off one driver to get rid of him AND then sign Max who will demand the same or more than Lewis got)
Aston Martin now have a car designed by the most successful designer of all time, coupled with a good engine Alonso could be back at the top (I'm guessing Lance will still stick it in the wall)
Red Bull's engine could be a dog - Max might find himself at the back of the pack week after week, if that happens expect lots of temper tantrums.

Audi or Chevrolet could pull off a miracle in their first season.

The first race will give some indication, but a few races might be needed to really see how things are going to pan out.

I expect the McLarens to continue to be very competitive next year but I can see Mercedes getting the engine right for next season and Russell being a real contender.  I could also see Verstappen jumping ship to Mercedes if the Red Bull engine sucks.

I think engine regs will have a bigger impact than the aero regs.

[mr.bluesky]

Next year could be really interesting

New Aero rules for everyone
New tyre profile for everyone
New engine regulations
Adrian Newey designed Aston
Two new teams Audi and Chevrolet
Red Bull building their own engine for the first time

Now Helmut has left Red Bull, could Max follow?  If so where might Max go?

Anything could happen,

Ferrari could nail a design that is reliable and suits Hamilton’s driving style.  ALternatively they might drop him if Max comes on the market (then again Lewis has 2 years left of a 3 year $150m contract - can Ferrari (or any team) afford to pay off one driver to get rid of him AND then sign Max who will demand the same or more than Lewis got)
Aston Martin now have a car designed by the most successful designer of all time, coupled with a good engine Alonso could be back at the top (I'm guessing Lance will still stick it in the wall)
Red Bull's engine could be a dog - Max might find himself at the back of the pack week after week, if that happens expect lots of temper tantrums.

Audi or Chevrolet could pull off a miracle in their first season.

The first race will give some indication, but a few races might be needed to really see how things are going to pan out.

Good to see Bottas back in Formula 1. He was the perfect wing man for Hamilton when he was at Mercedes. I expect Max brat to jump ship mid season to Mercedes if Red Bull struggle next season. It would be interesting to see Russell and Max brat in identical cars. Early days yet but I think Russell will be a major contender for the title. Toto Wolff has never disguised the fact that he wants Verstappen at Mercedes. No DRS next season but adjustable / flexible wings which the rule makers say will aid overtaking 

[ratedj]

I expect the McLarens to continue to be very competitive next year but I can see Mercedes getting the engine right for next season and Russell being a real contender.  I could also see Verstappen jumping ship to Mercedes if the Red Bull engine sucks.

I think engine regs will have a bigger impact than the aero regs.

It will be like 2014 all over again. Engine performance will dictate the pecking order. You have to remember that there will be a 50/50 split between the ICE and electrical output, whereas the electrical output in the previous gen engines accounted for approx 160 bhp. Then you also have to factor in the use of sustainable fuels. We will possibly see some strange occurrences next year. Many drivers have reported having to downshift on the middle of straights at tracks like Monza while in the simulator, which is downright weird.

Max/Red Bull and Charles/Ferrari will be the corks in the bottle next season. I can see Max alongside Kimi at Mercedes in 2027, which would be incredibly harsh on George. Toto has been infatuated with Max since 2014.

[Iamforreal]

I am watching F1 only for few years, but never looked a lot in detail to see how it works for cars.
So McLaren is buying the engine from Mercedes, what did they do better last 2 years? Just the aerodynamics and the design?
It's basically the same engine and apparently many people say very impressive, not many teams won the constructors and drivers in this way.
Usually the teams who do their own engine have always been better.

[ratedj]

I am watching F1 only for few years, but never looked a lot in detail to see how it works for cars.
So McLaren is buying the engine from Mercedes, what did they do better last 2 years? Just the aerodynamics and the design?
It's basically the same engine and apparently many people say very impressive, not many teams won the constructors and drivers in this way.
Usually the teams who do their own engine have always been better.

Yeah, McLaren had a better chassis/aerodynamic platform. From 2014 to 2021 you basically needed to be a factory team to compete for a championship. In 2014 Mercedes were said to have had 50bhp more than McLaren despite both teams having the same engine. This was due to the engine being optimised with Petronas fuel and lubricants, who are partners of Mercedes, and it led to McLaren deciding to partner with Honda in 2015. By this season (2025) the engine development had essentially plateaued, largely due to the cost cap, eradicating such discrepancies.

[mrwhite]

Yeah, McLaren had a better chassis/aerodynamic platform. From 2014 to 2021 you basically needed to be a factory team to compete for a championship. In 2014 Mercedes were said to have had 50bhp more than McLaren despite both teams having the same engine. This was due to the engine being optimised with Petronas fuel and lubricants, who are partners of Mercedes, and it led to McLaren deciding to partner with Honda in 2015. By this season (2025) the engine development had essentially plateaued, largely due to the cost cap, eradicating such discrepancies.

Not strictly true, Mercedes wanted to concentrate on its own unsuccessful F1 team, and McLaren wanted to be an engine partner rather than be a customer, and so the two parted company, with McLaren then persuading Honda back into F1 with disastrous results.

[ratedj]

Not strictly true, Mercedes wanted to concentrate on its own unsuccessful F1 team, and McLaren wanted to be an engine partner rather than be a customer, and so the two parted company, with McLaren then persuading Honda back into F1 with disastrous results.

Nah that’s not it. When Mercedes returned as a works team in 2010 it allowed McLaren to buy back 40% of the stake that Mercedes had acquired in McLaren. This was partly driven by McLaren’s decision to become a car manufacturer and a competitor of Mercedes. Ron Dennis drove the decision to switch to Honda engines. This is from an Autosport magazine back in 2014:

‘Dennis said the conviction that having a works engine was necessary was behind his team's switch to Honda - as he made clear that his outfit will be its number one priority even if other customers come on board.’

It also quoted Dennis as saying:

‘The one thing that jumps at you, if you look at all the qualifications this year, is the time difference between the Mercedes-Benz works team and other teams.

My opinion, and it is an opinion held by many people within our organisation, is that you have no chance of winning the world championship if you are not receiving the best engines from whoever is manufacturing your engines. Even though you have the same brand of engine that does not mean you have the ability to optimise the engine.’

Mercedes still provided engines to Williams, Lotus and Force India in 2015.

[webpunter]

@mr.b you gonna start a new thread 2026 etc ?

[mr.bluesky]

@mr.b you gonna start a new thread 2026 etc ?

Will do webbie, when there's something happening before the new season 
I have just started it with the new race schedule.