Who is the UK's Greatest ever Sportsman / Woman?

[Blackpool Rock]

A few posts about this on another thread however rather than derailing that thread I think it probably deserves a thread in it's own right 

So who does everyone think the UK's greatest ever sportsman / woman is 

It's hard to compare modern day athletes against those from yesteryear who were often amateurs so perhaps a degree of adjustment is needed to fully appreciate what they achieved 

The other thread was in response to Andy Murray being claimed as the greatest yet it's now been challenged that he isn't even the greatest tennis player, obviously people may have a bias depending on what sports they like and follow but would anyone honestly propose someone who plays golf or drives a car  If so then what about a snooker player or Jockey Wilson for his darts prowess as he did it while he was pissed 

There are probably cases for people like Roger Banister achieving the 1st 4 minute mile while only being an amateur and various others 1sts, how about John Surtees for being the only person to win the F1 title on both 2 and 4 wheels, a feat that I doubt will ever be repeated 

Most athletes / sportspeople specialise in one sport as it requires total focus to actually be the best however quite often they are generally good at various sports, for instance some people just seem to be good at most "Ball sports" like footballers will also be good golfers and quite good at snooker etc

Many people slate the "All rounders" as not actually being good at anything however i'd argue the contrary viewpoint that they are exceptionally good at a multitude of sports and embody the true Olympic spirit 

I need to finish watching this documentary on iplayer about Daley Thompson however IMO he should be crowned Britain's Greatest ever Sportsman as he performed to a really high standard over 10 events and i'd put Jessica Ennis Hill down as the Greatest ever Sportswoman 

And let's not forget Daley did it back in a time before Lottery funding and when Team GB was only picking up a few medals at the Olympics 

External Link/Members Only

[Pillowtalk]

In a family discussion on a similar topic I said that thought Kathy Cook was the UK's greatest ever female athlete - and everyone in the room said 'Kathy who'?
She held the UK National records for 100m, 200m and 400m for over 25 years. Her 100m best of 11.10secs, stood as the UK record from 1981 to 2008. Her 200m best of 22.10 secs, stood as the UK record from 1984 to 2015. She first broke the 200m record in 1979. Her 400m best of 49.43, stood as the UK record from 1984 to 2013. She had first broken the 400m record in 1982. In the sprint relay, along with Heather Hunte, Bev Goddard and Sonia Lannaman, she set the UK record with 42.43 at the 1980 Moscow Olympics, which stood as the UK record until 2014. She is also a former holder of the World Best for 300m, running 35.46 in 1984.
So, outstanding over a range of distances and competing and winning medals at a time when Eastern European athletes were pumped full of drugs.
Also, I believe she was not a full time athlete spending much of her career working as a bank clerk too.
I rest my case m'lud.

[mr.bluesky]

I'd have to go for Sir Lewis Hamilton who's still setting records today with his 200th  podium in the Hungarian GP. I know he's not everyone's cup of tea but his records speak for themselves.

[WASA38]

Stan Matthews ? Jack Hobbs ? Fred Perry ?

maybe showing my age.

[akauya]

Eddie the Eagle. Thoroughly good chap, he united the nation in more ways than one  .

He was so good they even made a film about him.

[mr.bluesky]

You could easily name a dozen or more footballers, boxers etc
Bobby Moore,  Bobby Charlton, Kenny Dalglish,  Joe Calzaghe unbeaten through out his career,  Henry Cooper,  athletes like Daley Thompson , many more athletes and cyclists.  Very hard to choose one above all others in different sports. One thing it does show is that for a relatively small country ('s) we've produced a lot of world class talent.

[timsussex]

Stan Matthews ? Jack Hobbs ? Fred Perry ?

maybe showing my age.

CB Fry - now thats showing my age !   most of you will have to look him up so heres from his Wiki page
Fry's achievements on the sporting field included representing England at both cricket and football an FA Cup Final appearance for Southampton and equalling the then-world record for the long jump. He also reputedly turned down the throne of Albania.

[Yankee21]

Daley
External Link/Members Only

[Blackpool Rock]

In a family discussion on a similar topic I said that thought Kathy Cook was the UK's greatest ever female athlete - and everyone in the room said 'Kathy who'?
She held the UK National records for 100m, 200m and 400m for over 25 years. Her 100m best of 11.10secs, stood as the UK record from 1981 to 2008. Her 200m best of 22.10 secs, stood as the UK record from 1984 to 2015. She first broke the 200m record in 1979. Her 400m best of 49.43, stood as the UK record from 1984 to 2013. She had first broken the 400m record in 1982. In the sprint relay, along with Heather Hunte, Bev Goddard and Sonia Lannaman, she set the UK record with 42.43 at the 1980 Moscow Olympics, which stood as the UK record until 2014. She is also a former holder of the World Best for 300m, running 35.46 in 1984.
So, outstanding over a range of distances and competing and winning medals at a time when Eastern European athletes were pumped full of drugs.
Also, I believe she was not a full time athlete spending much of her career working as a bank clerk too.
I rest my case m'lud.

Which is what I also said so had to Google her
While I accept she was good and held many UK records they were UK records and the rest of our athletes weren't up to much.
It appears that she got a few Olympic medals but only Bronze, are we really that bad that our greatest ever sportsperson is only a Bronze medallist 

[Jumping Jack Flash]

I’d have thought that our greatest sportsmen/women are either cyclists or rowers.

Sir Steven Redgrave - 5 golds in 5 successive Olympic Games plus 9 times world champion
Sir Matthew Pinsent - 10 times world champion plus 4 consecutive Olympic golds
Sir Chris Hoy - 11 time world champion plus 6 Olympic golds and 1 silver
Laura Kenny - Britain’s most successful female Olympian

There are several others.

[Blackpool Rock]

I’d have thought that our greatest sportsmen/women are either cyclists or rowers.

Sir Steven Redgrave - 5 golds in 5 successive Olympic Games plus 9 times world champion
Sir Matthew Pinsent - 10 times world champion plus 4 consecutive Olympic golds
Sir Chris Hoy - 11 time world champion plus 6 Olympic golds and 1 silver
Laura Kenny - Britain’s most successful female Olympian

There are several others.

Yes I was thinking we have had an awful lot of success in both cycling and rowing however I also have reservations about how much is purely down to the athletes and how much is down to the equipment being used 

I have previously mused that most of our medals come from sports that require someone to use a piece of kit like a bike or a boat and at the top end of competition a slight edge make the difference between winning and losing.
So if your bike is perhaps a few grams lighter or slightly more aerodynamic or your clothing gives less drag due to wind resistance
Likewise with a boat if you can make it more streamlined or reduce the weight or have a better designed or shape of oar etc etc

Many years ago the British used to win most things against other poor countries like the commonwealth countries but our guys had spiked running shoes and they were barefoot 

[Followyourdick]

Well it’s certainly not Charlotte Du Jardin!

[bigden40]

You could easily name a dozen or more footballers, boxers etc
Bobby Moore,  Bobby Charlton, Kenny Dalglish,  Joe Calzaghe unbeaten through out his career,  Henry Cooper,  athletes like Daley Thompson , many more athletes and cyclists.  Very hard to choose one above all others in different sports. One thing it does show is that for a relatively small country ('s) we've produced a lot of world class talent.

Calzaghe is a good shout, undefeated, unified world champion and longest reign in the history of the division.

[jackdaw]

In a family discussion on a similar topic I said that thought Kathy Cook was the UK's greatest ever female athlete - and everyone in the room said 'Kathy who'?
She held the UK National records for 100m, 200m and 400m for over 25 years. Her 100m best of 11.10secs, stood as the UK record from 1981 to 2008. Her 200m best of 22.10 secs, stood as the UK record from 1984 to 2015. She first broke the 200m record in 1979. Her 400m best of 49.43, stood as the UK record from 1984 to 2013. She had first broken the 400m record in 1982. In the sprint relay, along with Heather Hunte, Bev Goddard and Sonia Lannaman, she set the UK record with 42.43 at the 1980 Moscow Olympics, which stood as the UK record until 2014. She is also a former holder of the World Best for 300m, running 35.46 in 1984.
So, outstanding over a range of distances and competing and winning medals at a time when Eastern European athletes were pumped full of drugs.
Also, I believe she was not a full time athlete spending much of her career working as a bank clerk too.
I rest my case m'lud.

Yes…the times of her Olympic competitors look “drug powered” as you say. Add a couple of Olympic golds to her other achievements, and no one would be asking “Kathy who?”

[jackdaw]

For me Chris Hoy, 11 world titles, 6 Olympic Golds, and 1 silver.

And I liked his attitude…when he started he was effectively an amateur, happy to travel anywhere for a bike race, stay in crap digs, etc. And then adapted as his sport offered him professional opportunities.

[bigden40]

Also there’s Max Woosnam

After fighting in WWI on western front and at Gallipoli

- Won Tennis titles at Olympics and Wimbledon
- Captained the Davis Cup team
- Captained Man City and England at football.  City were runners-up that year
- Scored a Century at Lords
- made a 147 break
- was a scratch golfer

According to wiki he once defeated Charlie Chaplin at table tennis playing with a butter knife instead of a bat.

[jackdaw]

You could easily name a dozen or more footballers, boxers etc
Bobby Moore,  Bobby Charlton, Kenny Dalglish,  Joe Calzaghe unbeaten through out his career,  Henry Cooper,  athletes like Daley Thompson , many more athletes and cyclists.  Very hard to choose one above all others in different sports. One thing it does show is that for a relatively small country ('s) we've produced a lot of world class talent.

George Best? Fantastic talent, certainly.

[Jumping Jack Flash]

Yes I was thinking we have had an awful lot of success in both cycling and rowing however I also have reservations about how much is purely down to the athletes and how much is down to the equipment being used 

I have previously mused that most of our medals come from sports that require someone to use a piece of kit like a bike or a boat and at the top end of competition a slight edge make the difference between winning and losing.
So if your bike is perhaps a few grams lighter or slightly more aerodynamic or your clothing gives less drag due to wind resistance
Likewise with a boat if you can make it more streamlined or reduce the weight or have a better designed or shape of oar etc etc

Many years ago the British used to win most things against other poor countries like the commonwealth countries but our guys had spiked running shoes and they were barefoot 

I see your point but there’s very little difference between the bikes that our riders use and the bikes that their opponents use. I don’t know enough about rowing to comment about the boats that they use but they are bound to be similar and tournament rules tend to spell out the specifications anyway.

[mr.bluesky]

George Best? Fantastic talent, certainly.

No doubt Best was a fantastic player in his day, he had it all unfortunately he didn't make the most of it and went off the rails especially with the drinking.

[mr.bluesky]

For me Chris Hoy, 11 world titles, 6 Olympic Golds, and 1 silver.

And I liked his attitude…when he started he was effectively an amateur, happy to travel anywhere for a bike race, stay in crap digs, etc. And then adapted as his sport offered him professional opportunities.

Probably have to agree with you on Chris Hoy, Sir Steven Redgrave would have to be up their too. 5 Olympic gold medals over twenty years is one hell of an achievement which may never be matched or broken.

[Blackpool Rock]

Probably have to agree with you on Chris Hoy, Sir Steven Redgrave would have to be up their too. 5 Olympic gold medals over twenty years is one hell of an achievement which may never be matched or broken.

But if it's purely just about Olympic medals many cyclists have been mentioned but Sir Jason Kenny hasn't, 9 medals of which 7 were gold makes him the UK's biggest medal medal winner and gold medal winner

[Pillowtalk]

I'd have to go for Sir Lewis Hamilton who's still setting records today with his 200th  podium in the Hungarian GP. I know he's not everyone's cup of tea but his records speak for themselves.

I can't really see that motor racing is a sport - the best car wins and that's it, year after year - soooooo boring. If it was to become really competitive then all drivers would drive the same car, like in most sailing - all sailors sail identical boats.

[scutty brown]

I would suggest someone like the guys who masterminded the rescue of those kids out of the cave in Thailand.
Just ordinary blokes who achieve outstanding results in one of the most dangerous sports possible, using rudimentary home-built equipment.
They may not be supremely fit, or supremely strong, or win lots of medals, but their achievements beats any other "sportsman" by a long way

[Blackpool Rock]

I see your point but there’s very little difference between the bikes that our riders use and the bikes that their opponents use. I don’t know enough about rowing to comment about the boats that they use but they are bound to be similar and tournament rules tend to spell out the specifications anyway.

This article talks about the policy of "marginal gains" employed by British cycling back in 2003, prior to that we had little or no success for 100 years but a few years after starting the policy we were winning the majority of available medals

Small adjustments such as redesigning the bike seats to make them more comfortable are logical but who the fuck thought of rubbing alcohol on the tyres so they gripped better  Pure genius 

External Link/Members Only

[Blackpool Rock]

I can't really see that motor racing is a sport - the best car wins and that's it, year after year - soooooo boring. If it was to become really competitive then all drivers would drive the same car, like in most sailing - all sailors sail identical boats.

The drivers do actually have a lot to do with it too, just look at the Red Bull F1 team who until very recently had a car far and away better than anyone else however 1 driver often won the races while the other car was often nowhere to be seen as the driver is shit by comparison to his teammate and to other lesser cars with better drivers

[mr.bluesky]

I can't really see that motor racing is a sport - the best car wins and that's it, year after year - soooooo boring. If it was to become really competitive then all drivers would drive the same car, like in most sailing - all sailors sail identical boats.

To a certain extent I'd have to agree, but the best drivers get to drive the best cars. Sergio Perez drives for the same team as Verstappen so by all accounts has an identical car yet doesn't get any where near matching his results.  I don't know anything about sailing but I bet the boats have some differences or tweaks to give them the edge. 
They say in F1 the first man you have to beat is your team mate because he's in an identical car.

[chrishornx]

Probably have to agree with you on Chris Hoy, Sir Steven Redgrave would have to be up their too. 5 Olympic gold medals over twenty years is one hell of an achievement which may never be matched or broken.

16 years 5 olympics

[chrishornx]

I can't really see that motor racing is a sport - the best car wins and that's it, year after year - soooooo boring. If it was to become really competitive then all drivers would drive the same car, like in most sailing - all sailors sail identical boats.

a good reason to consider Sir Ben Ainslie in the discussion. And he won all his medals on individual effort whilst Redgrave , whilst an 'ever present' always had the best alongside him to help

[mr.bluesky]

16 years 5 olympics

  even more impressive 👏

[scutty brown]

They say in F1 the first man you have to beat is your team mate because he's in an identical car.

Except that's often not true.
In many cases the second driver is using technology that's less experimental, more mature, lower performance so less stressed and more reliable so that if car 1 breaks, car 2 is less likely to.
But that just underwrites the point that the key thing to winning in motor racing is not how good the driver is, but rather how good the  technology is - and whether the driver is photogenic enough to get enough sponsorship to pay for that technology

[Blackpool Rock]

  even more impressive 👏

Fuck me he's a timelord, gets my vote   

[chrishornx]

Fuck me he's a timelord, gets my vote   

how is he a timelord? 

[Blackpool Rock]

how is he a timelord? 

16 years and 5 Olympics but he'd need 17 years to compete at 5

Assuming year 1 is Olympics 1 then -
Year 5 is the 2nd
Year 9 is the 3rd
Year 13 is the 4th
Year 17 is the 5th

[jackdaw]

16 years and 5 Olympics but he'd need 17 years to compete at 5

Assuming year 1 is Olympics 1 then -
Year 5 is the 2nd
Year 9 is the 3rd
Year 13 is the 4th
Year 17 is the 5th

But assume first is 2000
Second                  2004
Third.                    2008
Fourth.                  2012
Fifth.                      2016

Still confident 16 impossible??

[8MillionDollarMan]

Yes read that article in the paper today Blackpool Cock,Murray has made the most of his talent I wouldn't put him at #1 though he just hasn't won enough big titles in an individual sport although he's had stiff opposition.
Botham for me he had it all and his performances are etched in my memory,then probably Mansell who got where he is through sheer bloody mindedness and hard work from very humble beginnings.
I'd be hard pressed to think of a standout sportswoman though.

[Blackpool Rock]

But assume first is 2000
Second                  2004
Third.                    2008
Fourth.                  2012
Fifth.                      2016

Still confident 16 impossible??

Yes I did work it out originally as 20 by 5 x 4 year intervals but then did a quick recalculation and got 17 based on starting at year 1 but then had another think after posting, anyway i'm blaming Mr Bluesky 

On the other hand perhaps it means i'm a timelord and the greatest Olympian 

[jackdaw]

Yes I did work it out originally as 20 by 5 x 4 year intervals but then did a quick recalculation and got 17 based on starting at year 1 but then had another think after posting, anyway i'm blaming Mr Bluesky 

On the other hand perhaps it means i'm a timelord and the greatest Olympian 

He (Mr Bluesky) has often led me astray…so can easily believe he deserves the blame.

(Joking aside, was trying to work out where fallacy was in your original posting. Fact that Wednesday is only day I booze at midday doesn’t help. Think it’s something to do with things beginning at 0, not 1. When we are born…it’s a year before we are 1 year old. Or more simply if first Olympics is in year 1 and last in year 17…16 years have passed 17 minus 1. I’ll doze off, and sober up, it may become more obvious.)

[Bertiebeenthere]

He (Mr Bluesky) has often led me astray…so can easily believe he deserves the blame.

(Joking aside, was trying to work out where fallacy was in your original posting. Fact that Wednesday is only day I booze at midday doesn’t help. Think it’s something to do with things beginning at 0, not 1. When we are born…it’s a year before we are 1 year old. Or more simply if first Olympics is in year 1 and last in year 17…16 years have passed 17 minus 1. I’ll doze off, and sober up, it may become more obvious.)

We're getting into maths now, depending on the dates/seasons/hemispheres of the Olympics?

[mills_and_bhuna]

Steve Redgrave.
And that's my final answer.
Only one medal really going to be achievable per games unlike sprint cyclists.
22 years old winning his first and 38 winning his last.
If you ever watch even the training these guys do and what they subject their bodies to, it's insane.
Honorable mentions to Pinsent, Hoy, Kenny, and Ronnie O'Sullivan

[mr.bluesky]

Yes I did work it out originally as 20 by 5 x 4 year intervals but then did a quick recalculation and got 17 based on starting at year 1 but then had another think after posting, anyway i'm blaming Mr Bluesky 

At my age I'm easily confused and maths was never my strong point 

[8MillionDollarMan]

Steve Redgrave.
And that's my final answer.
Only one medal really going to be achievable per games unlike sprint cyclists.
22 years old winning his first and 38 winning his last.
If you ever watch even the training these guys do and what they subject their bodies to, it's insane.
Honorable mentions to Pinsent, Hoy, Kenny, and Ronnie O'Sullivan

Redgrave was carried to a lot of wins by his fellow rowers and snooker is not a sport 

[mr.bluesky]

Steve Redgrave.
And that's my final answer.
Only one medal really going to be achievable per games unlike sprint cyclists.
22 years old winning his first and 38 winning his last.
If you ever watch even the training these guys do and what they subject their bodies to, it's insane.
Honorable mentions to Pinsent, Hoy, Kenny, and Ronnie O'Sullivan

Well if you're going to mention a pub sport and Ronnie O Sullivan then you have to mention Darts player Phil "the power" Taylor with his 16 world titles 

[shed]

Johnny Wilkinson......now that drop goal 

[8MillionDollarMan]

Well if you're going to mention a pub sport and Ronnie O Sullivan then you have to mention Darts player Phil "the power" Taylor with his 16 world titles 

Yes he did occur to me but I decided bar billiards ( who remembers that) was a better sport.

[shaft10]

Joss Naylor .. a fellow Cumbrian 

[chrishornx]

16 years and 5 Olympics but he'd need 17 years to compete at 5

Assuming year 1 is Olympics 1 then -
Year 5 is the 2nd
Year 9 is the 3rd
Year 13 is the 4th
Year 17 is the 5th

er No

[chrishornx]

surprised no mention of Sir Mark Cavendish

[WelshMichael]

Yes read that article in the paper today Blackpool Cock,Murray has made the most of his talent I wouldn't put him at #1 though he just hasn't won enough big titles in an individual sport although he's had stiff opposition.
Botham for me he had it all and his performances are etched in my memory,then probably Mansell who got where he is through sheer bloody mindedness and hard work from very humble beginnings.
I'd be hard pressed to think of a standout sportswoman though.

That's something that may go in Murray's favour, stiff competition is an understatement. He competed against the 3 most successful male players in history - Federer, Nadal and Djokovic who have 66 grand slams between them. Imagine Lewis Hamilton having to race against Schumacher, Senna and Fangio in every grand prix he started. How many titles would he have won then? Even in this era Murray won 3 grand slams, was world number one and won the Davis Cup for Britain almost single handed. Also his 8 grand slam final losses came against either Federer or Djokovic. That's some career.

[chrishornx]

That's something that may go in Murray's favour, stiff competition is an understatement. He competed against the 3 most successful male players in history - Federer, Nadal and Djokovic who have 66 grand slams between them. Imagine Lewis Hamilton having to race against Schumacher, Senna and Fangio in every grand prix he started. How many titles would he have won then? Even in this era Murray won 3 grand slams, was world number one and won the Davis Cup for Britain almost single handed. Also his 8 grand slam final losses came against either Federer or Djokovic. That's some career.

not to mention olympic gold medals

[8MillionDollarMan]

That's something that may go in Murray's favour, stiff competition is an understatement. He competed against the 3 most successful male players in history - Federer, Nadal and Djokovic who have 66 grand slams between them. Imagine Lewis Hamilton having to race against Schumacher, Senna and Fangio in every grand prix he started. How many titles would he have won then? Even in this era Murray won 3 grand slams, was world number one and won the Davis Cup for Britain almost single handed. Also his 8 grand slam final losses came against either Federer or Djokovic. That's some career.

Yes I think the Davis Cup was the best of him,perhaps his personality(on court at least) or lack of clouds my judgement.