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Author Topic: Vast majority back calls to make paying for sex illegal  (Read 5708 times)

Curious6705

Never been to NI - but if media reports over the years are to be believed, it has been a hotbed of religious extremism  of the worst kind and not representative of the UK in general.

Offline Jerboa

I must have been bored but I looked up the questions on the CARE web site. So, they asked 1016 adults these two questions:

Does anyone remember the Yes Minister episode where Sir Humphrey gets Bernard to agree and then disagree with national service just by the order he asked the questions?

So, here the first question sets you up to think about human trafficking and slavery. Of course everyone says a minimum sentence is appropriate. Now you're thinking how bad human trafficking is and how you agree it needs at least two years sentence. Only then do you get asked about paid sex and you're told that this is the biggest driver of the human trafficking you were just asked about!

Not much of a surprise they mostly get the answer they wanted. Shysters.

Shysters indeed, any opinion poll can manufacturer any out come they want from uniformed members of the public.

Never been to NI - but if media reports over the years are to be believed, it has been a hotbed of religious extremism  of the worst kind and not representative of the UK in general.

I am Irish born and bred. I would certainly say that NI is another world, poles apart from the mainland UK.

As regards the law, the PSNI have much bigger fish to fry. They will quietly ignore the law.

Offline bbois77



As regards the law, the PSNI have much bigger fish to fry. They will quietly ignore the law.

Is this the official view from one of the assistant chief constables....Fred?

Offline Third Man

i think this now deserves a main thread on the forum.  Ok  northern ireland is not like mainland uk as its all reiigion  and yes iv been there, and the Snp in scot defeated the private members bill last year by the loony  left labour mp rhoda grant who is from the western isles. They needed a three line whip to do so. And they are mad up there in the western isles like ireland. But if harridan has her way its here now  so if anyone thinks this is nonsense well look out

Offline Dani

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It makes no difference if she and her party do pass such a law as it is impossible for it to be upheld. Even if they know a prossie works from a set place they cannot prove that any of the men visited have paid for sex.
If they passed a law making it illegal to pay for sex it would be uninforcable. A client comes to me and I don't mention money to them (so even if outside the window the police would not hear about money) how could it be proved that sex was paid for. They couldn't. They would have to have recording devices in the prossies bedroom for them to get proof and I don't think they would get permission to do that so it would be a mute law as unless business was done outside in public no one would ever have any proof.

Is this the official view from one of the assistant chief constables....Fred?

Well they are not going say anything like that officially.

It is a fact of life in NI that police have their hands full with the nutters as it is. They have no interest in harassing WGs or punters.

Offline smiths

It makes no difference if she and her party do pass such a law as it is impossible for it to be upheld. Even if they know a prossie works from a set place they cannot prove that any of the men visited have paid for sex.
If they passed a law making it illegal to pay for sex it would be uninforcable. A client comes to me and I don't mention money to them (so even if outside the window the police would not hear about money) how could it be proved that sex was paid for. They couldn't. They would have to have recording devices in the prossies bedroom for them to get proof and I don't think they would get permission to do that so it would be a mute law as unless business was done outside in public no one would ever have any proof.

Of course it would make a difference, the law would state a punter is breaking the law just by punting. That would be seriously bad news for punters as the police could wheel the offence out as it suits them.

As i posted above i wouldnt expect the police to bother with punters who punt with Indies at least initially as brothels and the street scene are far easier and cheaper ways to nick punters. Purges could occur or where the top cops in any given area have zero tolerance they could tell their officers to nick punters. The point is it would be completely up to those top cops ultimately.

As i also said its all ifs and buts at this stage but Labour getting in in May would make this one stage nearer in my view. Harridan and her ilk are on a crusade, the facts make no odds to them.

Offline Jimmyredcab

how can it be proved? you pay for the time anyway not the sex.

That would be laughed out of court, absolute cobblers.     :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Offline JamesKW


 Purges could occur or where the top cops in any given area have zero tolerance they could tell their officers to nick punters. The point is it would be completely up to those top cops ultimately.

As i also said its all ifs and buts at this stage but Labour getting in in May would make this one stage nearer in my view. Harridan and her ilk are on a crusade, the facts make no odds to them.

Purges are likely to occur from time to time and parties are a possible target as they can catch a few punters in one go with little effort.
In the world of rave clubs generally they occur with no problems but every so often the police turn up in mass to show they are doing their job,this will be the same with this law it is just if you are unlucky to get caught at the time.

Offline JamesKW

This is an excellent keystone cops type clip of the police turning up in mass.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqtX7OgeldM

With indies, it's not really enforced even in Sweden anymore, there have been very few prosecutions IIRC.

If Harridan has her way and this becomes law in England in a few years time, I will largely ignore it (despite being a married man with kids).  I'll be a bit more careful, and wary of sting operations (new escorts with zero feedback will have a tough time).

As for stakeouts, I imagine the conversation would go something like this:

"Yes, officer, I was visiting this woman.  She's a former prostitute, and I was once a client of hers, back when it was legal.  We've become good friends, we like to get together for a drink and a chat, and sometimes we still have a good shag.  Oh, she's still on the game?  Funny, she didn't mention that".

Very unlikely they could film the money changing hands, so either I'm skint when they catch me on the way out, or I have a fair bit of cash when they catch me on the way in.  I'll stop putting it in a separate envelope and pay her out of my wallet.  What is an illegal amount of cash to carry in a wallet?

The only real chance of gathering evidence would be through electronic eavesdropping.  If you're visiting her at the same time as "randyshagger" (or whatever) was scheduled to do so, that might be difficult to explain.  But as being a prostitute won't be illegal, this would involve spying on an innocent person.  This would need anti-terrorist powers that the police don't usually have, Harridan would have to argue that prostitution = trafficking = organised crime = terrorism.  A bit of a stretch, to put it mildly.

Offline Wowgeek

What is an illegal amount of cash to carry in a wallet?

The only real chance of gathering evidence would be through electronic eavesdropping.  If you're visiting her at the same time as "randyshagger" (or whatever) was scheduled to do so, that might be difficult to explain.  But as being a prostitute won't be illegal, this would involve spying on an innocent person.  This would need anti-terrorist powers that the police don't usually have, Harridan would have to argue that prostitution = trafficking = organised crime = terrorism.  A bit of a stretch, to put it mildly.

There is no maximum amount of cash you can carry, but if it is over £1000 and, you cannot provide a reasonable explanation for it, then it may institute a money laundering investigation.  Note I said MAY.

There is no legislation in this country to enable an innocent person to be spied on, there would have to be some evidence of their involvement or suspected involvement in something illegal.  If you are talking about the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 (RIPA) then that isn't and never has been 'anti-terror legislation' despite what the meeja may feed the public  ;)

Offline Captain Caveman

The police call it the 'Ways and Means Act' - if they want to find a reason to arrest you, they will find the means to do it.

Banning reason: Making racist slur

Offline charlie sheen

This story is quite worrying

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29720915

"Next month MPs will vote on an amendment to the Modern Slavery Bill, which would make it an offence to procure a sexual act. The amendment, tabled by Labour MP Fiona MacTaggart, has also attracted support from Conservative MPs."

Seems as if some are trying to criminalise punters via this amendment to the Modern slavery legislation.

The amendment itself, Clause 21:-

Fiona Mactaggart
NC21

To move the following Clause—
“Procuring sex for payment

(1) A person commits an offence under this section if he or she procures sexual
intercourse or any other sexual act, whether for himself of herself or for another
person, in return for payment.
(2) a “payment” includes—
(a) payment that is promised or given by another person;
(b) provision of non-financial benefits, including but not limited to drugs or
alcohol.”

Anyone have an idea how likely this amendment is to pass?
Banning reason: Accidentally logs into banned accounts (asianjay5inch, smallindianguy32)

Offline Wowgeek

I would hope that is doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of passing based on s.21 (2) (b) alone.

Non-financial benefits, a lift home, a meal, some gardening, building, plumbing, driving lessons?  The list is almost endless, where's the 'shudder' emoticon?

Online fredpunter

This story is quite worrying

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29720915

"Next month MPs will vote on an amendment to the Modern Slavery Bill, which would make it an offence to procure a sexual act. The amendment, tabled by Labour MP Fiona MacTaggart, has also attracted support from Conservative MPs."

Seems as if some are trying to criminalise punters via this amendment to the Modern slavery legislation.

The amendment itself, Clause 21:-

Fiona Mactaggart
NC21

To move the following Clause—
“Procuring sex for payment

(1) A person commits an offence under this section if he or she procures sexual
intercourse or any other sexual act, whether for himself of herself or for another
person, in return for payment.
(2) a “payment” includes—
(a) payment that is promised or given by another person;
(b) provision of non-financial benefits, including but not limited to drugs or
alcohol.”

Anyone have an idea how likely this amendment is to pass?

This would outlaw 95% of all sex! Including 90% of sex within marriage.

Offline Captain Caveman

Opposition amendments to government bills very rarely pass.

From the BBC story:

Crime Prevention Minister Norman Baker said there were "no current plans to reconsider the legislation around prostitution".
Banning reason: Making racist slur

jcdmj12

Better hope Labour don't get in at the next election, otherwise the feminazis might actually be able to push this through. Agree with CC though, it won't pass this time.

Offline Third Man

guys on here are too dismissive of this whole criminalising buying sex, it's alive and well in the EU, failed last year in Scotland after a private bill by a labour loony left msp was voted down by a three line whip by the snp. and it's passed in NI.  if labour get in that's it so we had better get some strategies in place just in case. laugh if you like but  it's nearer than you think.

Offline NIK

guys on here are too dismissive of this whole criminalising buying sex, it's alive and well in the EU, failed last year in Scotland after a private bill by a labour loony left msp was voted down by a three line whip by the snp. and it's passed in NI.  if labour get in that's it so we had better get some strategies in place just in case. laugh if you like but  it's nearer than you think.

No it isn't. 

I will continue to laugh at deluded cunts who think they can do something which has never been done before in the whole history of mankind.

I go to see a regular indie. Only she and I know what has passed between us. How the fuck are they going to prosecute anyone?   :dash:

Offline NIK

Furthermore, I am no longer a punter owing to financial difficulties. But if such a law was passed I would do my damndest to start punting as regularly as I could again.  :diablo:

Offline NIK

It makes no difference if she and her party do pass such a law as it is impossible for it to be upheld. Even if they know a prossie works from a set place they cannot prove that any of the men visited have paid for sex.
If they passed a law making it illegal to pay for sex it would be uninforcable. A client comes to me and I don't mention money to them (so even if outside the window the police would not hear about money) how could it be proved that sex was paid for. They couldn't. They would have to have recording devices in the prossies bedroom for them to get proof and I don't think they would get permission to do that so it would be a mute law as unless business was done outside in public no one would ever have any proof.

Exactly!  :thumbsup:

Now I'm sick of hearing such bollocks!  :thumbsdown:

Offline NIK

With indies, it's not really enforced even in Sweden anymore, there have been very few prosecutions IIRC.

If Harridan has her way and this becomes law in England in a few years time, I will largely ignore it (despite being a married man with kids).  I'll be a bit more careful, and wary of sting operations (new escorts with zero feedback will have a tough time).

As for stakeouts, I imagine the conversation would go something like this:

"Yes, officer, I was visiting this woman.  She's a former prostitute, and I was once a client of hers, back when it was legal.  We've become good friends, we like to get together for a drink and a chat, and sometimes we still have a good shag.  Oh, she's still on the game?  Funny, she didn't mention that".

Very unlikely they could film the money changing hands, so either I'm skint when they catch me on the way out, or I have a fair bit of cash when they catch me on the way in.  I'll stop putting it in a separate envelope and pay her out of my wallet.  What is an illegal amount of cash to carry in a wallet?

The only real chance of gathering evidence would be through electronic eavesdropping.  If you're visiting her at the same time as "randyshagger" (or whatever) was scheduled to do so, that might be difficult to explain.  But as being a prostitute won't be illegal, this would involve spying on an innocent person.  This would need anti-terrorist powers that the police don't usually have, Harridan would have to argue that prostitution = trafficking = organised crime = terrorism.  A bit of a stretch, to put it mildly.

As if the police don't have enough to do with real crime.  :rolleyes:



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