Author Topic: Finance & Investments  (Read 76611 times)

Offline Watts.E.Dunn

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I think a lot has changed since those days Dave, they have been in civil nuclear for ship/submarine services but they have got the know how for SMP teaming up wit the sweeds for one!..

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Offline RandomGuy99

I think a lot has changed since those days Dave, they have been in civil nuclear for ship/submarine services but they have got the know how for SMP teaming up wit the sweeds for one!..

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They'll need a lot of security around them.

Offline Watts.E.Dunn

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Their already sorted, got their own old bill!..

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Offline RandomGuy99

Their already sorted, got their own old bill!..

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Their numbers would need to increase if towns or cities have their own nuclear reactor

Offline Watts.E.Dunn

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Their numbers would need to increase if towns or cities have their own nuclear reactor

Dont think they'll be quite that many, they can do around 500 megawatts.

Some will be moving onto existing nuclaer sites, its just so much quicker to build them this way!..

Offline RandomGuy99

Dont think they'll be quite that many, they can do around 500 megawatts.

Some will be moving onto existing nuclaer sites, its just so much quicker to build them this way!..
The thing about existing nuclear sites is they tend to build them away from major population centres in case they go boom. SMRs will be close to towns and cities.

Offline Blackpool Rock

it's not it could  it's guaranteed fertislier prices up , oil, diesel etc it just hasn't filtered through yet . Therel be between 2 and 4 base rates rises . Base rate forecast on 12 months time is 4.5% and the worst thing is it will hit the poor the hardest just when things looked to be settling down

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Yeah it's all very similar to 4 years ago and the Ukraine invasion (sorry special military operation  :rolleyes:), hopefully it doesn't all feed through with such a hard hit but that possibly depends how long the current issues continue

Offline Watts.E.Dunn

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The thing about existing nuclear sites is they tend to build them away from major population centres in case they go boom. SMRs will be close to towns and cities.

They, apart from someone buggering around with them, don't go boom that much.

They or most all of them are located where a lot of cooling water is located near the sea in most instances.

On the new modular design they can SCRAM the modulaes very easily and quickly theres a paper on the operation and safety requirmemts somewhere if i can remeber were irs gone!..

Offline PepeMAGA

I'd guess that several will be built at the same site, not one SMR per site. Logistics and security wouldn't be cost effective

Offline Watts.E.Dunn

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Yes that is the idea add together as many modules as you need up to a limit..

Offline Blackpool Rock

Just checked and it appears there was a jump in prices last week, I was previously down about 9% but had a rebound of about 2% last week although I don't remember any individual day being great, I did check 1 day and it was up but slid back the following day.

Also not sure whether this was across the board or just certain sectors, i've got quite a bit of Tech which I think was previously hit quite hard but did see some good gains last week

Offline Massagemanmr

Just checked and it appears there was a jump in prices last week, I was previously down about 9% but had a rebound of about 2% last week although I don't remember any individual day being great, I did check 1 day and it was up but slid back the following day.

Also not sure whether this was across the board or just certain sectors, i've got quite a bit of Tech which I think was previously hit quite hard but did see some good gains last week
there will be some good days and they will be mega , but painful to watch gains being lost and also the uncertainty of how the world economy will look after this . For sure it'll be back on it's feet in a couple of years time and no one will be talking about the war but hard for sure to sit through these periods

Offline Blackpool Rock

Yesterday was good but an even better jump in prices today, hopefully things become more stable and we're back where we were in a few months

Offline Rick2468

Yesterday was good but an even better jump in prices today, hopefully things become more stable and we're back where we were in a few months

Trump is very unpredictable but I am fairly hopeful for stability. I think he got himself in a bit of a tricky situation with Iran so he won't want to stoke that fire again (it's wild that his key negotiation point is reopening the strait, which was open 4 weeks ago before US got bombed, Iran are added tolls and US don't seem to be arguing that !!!). Trump might look to Greenland again, or possibly the panama canal now that Iran has given him the idea of tolls, but HOPEFULLY he realises military action is not as straight forward as he thought it might be. Today it sounds like he has gone back to tariffs, which whilst these can impact the market hugely, at least they shouldn't cause a global oil shortage.

Last few weeks have been wild. Hopefully won't see it again.

Offline Moby Dick

there will be some good days and they will be mega , but painful to watch gains being lost and also the uncertainty of how the world economy will look after this . For sure it'll be back on it's feet in a couple of years time and no one will be talking about the war but hard for sure to sit through these periods
There is no pain, no gains to lose unless you have to sell your stocks / cash in.
Thats why you have a buffer, at least 3 months, preferably 2 years short term “available” money. Get this cushion first before investing in the stock markets and you will have nothing to worry about.

Overall the Dow is up 20% and FTSE up 34% over the last 12 months. It’s been a great year for my investments.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2026, 10:01:56 pm by Moby Dick »

Offline Blackpool Rock

There is no pain unless you have to sell your stocks / cash in.
Thats why you have a buffer, at least 3 months, preferably 2 years short term “available” money. Get this cushion first before investing in the stock markets and you will have nothing to worry about.
I get the concept but still can't bring myself to do this, so let's say I need 2K a month so we are talking £48K over 2 years but I then have to have £48K sat in an account earning next to nothing for 2 years instead of having it invested in the good times.

So i'm getting around 2% instead of 20% in a good year or 10% on average, personally I choose to take a small hit if I need to sell out during a dip but work on the basis that i've already made more money on the investment in advance

Offline Moby Dick

I get the concept but still can't bring myself to do this, so let's say I need 2K a month so we are talking £48K over 2 years but I then have to have £48K sat in an account earning next to nothing for 2 years instead of having it invested in the good times.

So i'm getting around 2% instead of 20% in a good year or 10% on average, personally I choose to take a small hit if I need to sell out during a dip but work on the basis that i've already made more money on the investment in advance

It’s a balance, and depends on your income, age and attitude to risk.
You should only invest in direct stock if you can afford to lose it. Safer to put in a managed fund, ETF or pension.
Even so I would say 3 months minimum £6k in an easy access Cash ISA at 4.3% or premium bonds - both tax free - and both will help build a pot which reduces taxable income when you need it for retirement.

Borrow on the Never Never. Use your credit card limits - 0% interest for 36 months, and transfer to another card before you need pay off. Multiple credit cards can help cash flow. I do 0% balance transfers and Money Transfer with 3% fee because I can get more with ISAs at 4.3% and regular savers at 7 to 8% . I then use borrowed money to live on, so I can max out my pension contributions (reduce my taxable income/income tax/NI).

Drip feed into stocks and share ISAs weekly so that you are averaging your investments. You can make money on the way up that will more than compensate on the way down.  Of course if you see a dip (like trumps tariffs and this Iran War) then top up with available cash.  You can only take advantage of these events if you are prepared to keep available cash at 4% - yes earning nothing since inflation is 4% - but believe me it pays in the long term and turns a crisis into an opportunity. Again I must state : it’s time in the market rather. than trying to time the market - but it works for me.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2026, 10:47:53 pm by Moby Dick »

Offline PilotMan

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I can get more with ISAs at 4.3% and regular savers at 7 to 8% .

I'd love to know where you're getting those rates?

Offline Moby Dick

I'd love to know where you're getting those rates?
ISA (tax exempt)
Moneyfarm 4.3%
Trading 212 4.62% vairiable tracker
Plum 4.61%
Principality 4.2%

Regular Saver (gross)
First Direct 7%
Zopa 7.1%
Principality 8% - withdrawn for new applicants - now 5%
Nationwide 6.5%

Worth googling best cash isa - and swapping around to get best rate

Offline PilotMan

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ISA (tax exempt)
Moneyfarm 4.3%
Trading 212 4.62% vairiable tracker
Plum 4.61%
Principality 4.2%

Regular Saver (gross)
First Direct 7%
Zopa 7.1%
Principality 8% - withdrawn for new applicants - now 5%
Nationwide 6.5%

Worth googling best cash isa - and swapping around to get best rate

Sorry pal, you aren't getting those rates on regular deposits.

They're all limited / capped special offers, with a headline number to get your attention when you're searching Google.

For example, First Direct is limited to a maximum of £300 per month, to a total of £3,600 maximum. It expires after 12 months.

Also, I have ISA's with 212, they aren't paying 4.62%.

Google is good, but it's giving you false information, that your regurgitating here.

That confirms my belief that you're just chatting shit in your previous post, with all drivel about living on credit  :lol:

Offline RandomGuy99

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Top rates for new money (ie not transfers). Trading 212 newbies who apply via our link using promo code MSE get the top rate of 4.62% (3.6% variable + 1yr 1.02% newbie's bonus). The account offers unlimited withdrawals, but there's a lower rate on transfers – so it's best for new cash only.

Top rate for transfers. Moneybox is top for transfers at 4.3% (3.45% variable + 1yr 0.85% newbie's bonus). You can't have opened a Moneybox cash ISA before (other Moneybox products is fine
« Last Edit: April 11, 2026, 06:26:06 am by RandomGuy99 »

Offline Darren101

Indeed, those are lures for new customers only and with a bonus that expires after a year. I started an S&S ISA in Trading212 and didn’t bother with their cash ISA since I can’t get the good rate anyway.

I also transferred out my cash ISA from Moneybox as they dropped the rate across the year and I can’t get the new rate. Also, what’s annoying is they say once I’ve transferred out and closed the accounts, I can’t open a new one. I take that to mean forever. In which case, screwed them.  High Street banks never have  clauses like that. I assume I can still open different offerings from them.

I have the First Direct 7% regular saver. I know those last 1 year. 7% on £300 first month, £600 second etc etc. should give you £136.50 approx end of the year. I am at £2100 just over 6 months in
« Last Edit: April 11, 2026, 08:24:21 am by Darren101 »

Offline Rick2468

Borrow on the Never Never. Use your credit card limits - 0% interest for 36 months, and transfer to another card before you need pay off. Multiple credit cards can help cash flow. I do 0% balance transfers and Money Transfer with 3% fee because I can get more with ISAs at 4.3% and regular savers at 7 to 8% . I then use borrowed money to live on, so I can max out my pension contributions (reduce my taxable income/income tax/NI).

I encourage anyone reading this post to research 'stoozing' carefully before doing this. You can make money this way, but not as much as you used to be able to and there is a high risk if you make a mistake. I also believe that this can impact your mortgage affordability rating so please factor that in if you expect to need a mortgage in future.

Offline Blackpool Rock

It’s a balance, and depends on your income, age and attitude to risk.
You should only invest in direct stock if you can afford to lose it. Safer to put in a managed fund, ETF or pension.
Even so I would say 3 months minimum £6k in an easy access Cash ISA at 4.3% or premium bonds - both tax free - and both will help build a pot which reduces taxable income when you need it for retirement.

Borrow on the Never Never. Use your credit card limits - 0% interest for 36 months, and transfer to another card before you need pay off. Multiple credit cards can help cash flow. I do 0% balance transfers and Money Transfer with 3% fee because I can get more with ISAs at 4.3% and regular savers at 7 to 8% . I then use borrowed money to live on, so I can max out my pension contributions (reduce my taxable income/income tax/NI).

Drip feed into stocks and share ISAs weekly so that you are averaging your investments. You can make money on the way up that will more than compensate on the way down.  Of course if you see a dip (like trumps tariffs and this Iran War) then top up with available cash.  You can only take advantage of these events if you are prepared to keep available cash at 4% - yes earning nothing since inflation is 4% - but believe me it pays in the long term and turns a crisis into an opportunity. Again I must state : it’s time in the market rather. than trying to time the market - but it works for me.
Well here's the thing I don't have much risk aversion and i'm happy to throw a couple of grand at the casino tables on a regular basis, I did buy a couple of individual stocks over 25 years ago and doubled my money on both of them but just find funds much easier these days

I did the whole "Rate Tart" thing for at least 10 or 12 years constantly moving to another 0% credit card deal and also had a 0% interest free overdraft up to £1500 which was normally maxed out but many of the deals seemed to fall away with the 2008 credit crunch and by then I was earning more and couldn't be arsed constantly chasing it.

Given my liking for gambling I never was much good as a regular saver so tended to invest lump sums when the gambling was going well and i'd had a good win in the casino or on the footy

Offline Moby Dick

Sorry pal, you aren't getting those rates on regular deposits.

They're all limited / capped special offers, with a headline number to get your attention when you're searching Google.

For example, First Direct is limited to a maximum of £300 per month, to a total of £3,600 maximum. It expires after 12 months.

Also, I have ISA's with 212, they aren't paying 4.62%.

Google is good, but it's giving you false information, that your regurgitating here.

That confirms my belief that you're just chatting shit in your previous post, with all drivel about living on credit  :lol:
I am getting them rates, pal. I don’t need to look on Google. That was my friendly advice to you, pal

Yes rates drop after a year, and you have to keep moving and have multiple accounts. I have 12 open at them moment, drip feeding £2500k per month all above 5.5%. Hardly worth it when the tax man takes 40% taking the lowest one to 3.3% but if you can borrow money on credit cards at 0% with a fee of between 0% and 3% it’s free money.
I aim to have a regular saver maturing every month, typically paying me between £2400 to £4800.
I then open a new one, I pay my bills (no mortgage, no dependents), and I have enough floating around to perpetuate and pay off the mimimum credit cards payments all 0% interest.

This allows me to max out my pension, which helps me bring down my taxable income and reduce my NI payments. That’s the key, save 40% on income tax and 2%/8% on NI. I am not doing it to make a fortune on the banks interest rates, but to give me cash flow so that I don’t have to cash in my Stocks - that’s the important bit.   I am therefore not worrying that the stock market has taking a little dive. I am ready to invest and take advantage of the opportunity, which is exactly what I have been doing for many years!

I can afford to pay off my credit card at any point, because i have it in savings, premium bonds, and accessible ISAs (cash and stocks).

It works for my circumstances, and may be not for you!

If you just want an easy access saving account with unlimited withdrawals then I have:

Barclays Premier Rainy Day Saver 3.89% for first £5k
But then I moved to Tesco at 4.05% (1% bonus for a year)
I only use the accounts because I have maxed out all other options.
After tax it is earning less than inflation.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2026, 11:15:24 am by Moby Dick »

Offline Moby Dick

I encourage anyone reading this post to research 'stoozing' carefully before doing this. You can make money this way, but not as much as you used to be able to and there is a high risk if you make a mistake. I also believe that this can impact your mortgage affordability rating so please factor that in if you expect to need a mortgage in future.
Treat it as cash flow.
Always pay off on time to maintain 0%.
The margins on making money from the interest rates differences is minimal when considering tax and inflation. That’s not why I do it.
Money is saved / made by diverting your salary into a pension before the tax man and NI takes its cut. 42% !!
These savings are much greater than bank interest rates and short term stock gains.
Don’t use it to fund an unsustainable lifestyle. Spend it on every day bills/groceries that your salary would normally cover, and have available savings to pay back if you can’t transfer to another card at favourable rates.

Yes it can reduce mortgage amounts because you have reduce expendible income due to credit card repayments, and their attitude to risk (Money Transfers look more desperate than balance transfers)
However I was considering looking at mortgaging my house to release equity and I was surprised how much they offered, wish I took it now, rates have since gone up.

Offline Blackpool Rock

Another good week for fund prices last week, i'm only around 2% down compared to around 9% a few weeks ago and let's face it a 2% drop is easily within 1 days trading if there's been bad news.

I have to say that i'm surprised it's regained so much so quickly on the back of talks which may well come to nothing and also bearing in mind that we WILL have an inflationary spike around the corner due to the higher fuel costs.
We are already seeing the start of inflation going up as a result and as one pundit said the lack of ships going through the strait of Hormuz hasn't even impacted on supply yet as those tankers would only just be landing their cargo or landed it in the last week or so therefore the supply issue is still a few weeks down the road.

Just checked and my star Tech fund (which i've previously flagged is worth looking at a number of times) is at a 12 month high and more than doubled in the last 12 months with an increase of 119.5%  :thumbsup:

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I am waiting for prices to drop again in the next couple of weeks but hopefully all this trouble can be sorted out
 
« Last Edit: April 11, 2026, 11:40:03 am by Blackpool Rock »

Offline RandomGuy99

Another good week for fund prices last week, i'm only around 2% down compared to around 9% a few weeks ago and let's face it a 2% drop is easily within 1 days trading if there's been bad news.

I have to say that i'm surprised it's regained so much so quickly on the back of talks which may well come to nothing and also bearing in mind that we WILL have an inflationary spike around the corner due to the higher fuel costs.
We are already seeing the start of inflation going up as a result and as one pundit said the lack of ships going through the strait of Hormuz hasn't even impacted on supply yet as those tankers would only just be landing their cargo or landed it in the last week or so therefore the supply issue is still a few weeks down the road.

Just checked and my star Tech fund (which i've previously flagged is worth looking at a number of times) is at a 12 month high and more than doubled in the last 12 months with an increase of 119.5%  :thumbsup:

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It'll drop again in 2 weeks when the peace talks fail.

Offline Blackpool Rock

It'll drop again in 2 weeks when the peace talks fail.
Spooky, that was actually my edit that I forgot to put in  :scare:

Offline Moby Dick

It'll drop again in 2 weeks when the peace talks fail.
Hope so, I’ve got another CC money transfer lined up  :sarcastic:

Offline PilotMan

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I am getting them rates, pal. I don’t need to look on Google. That was my friendly advice to you, pal

Yes rates drop after a year, and you have to keep moving and have multiple accounts. I have 12 open at them moment, drip feeding £2500k per month all above 5.5%. Hardly worth it when the tax man takes 40% taking the lowest one to 3.3% but if you can borrow money on credit cards at 0% with a fee of between 0% and 3% it’s free money.
I aim to have a regular saver maturing every month, typically paying me between £2400 to £4800.
I then open a new one, I pay my bills (no mortgage, no dependents), and I have enough floating around to perpetuate and pay off the mimimum credit cards payments all 0% interest.

This allows me to max out my pension, which helps me bring down my taxable income and reduce my NI payments. That’s the key, save 40% on income tax and 2%/8% on NI. I am not doing it to make a fortune on the banks interest rates, but to give me cash flow so that I don’t have to cash in my Stocks - that’s the important bit.   I am therefore not worrying that the stock market has taking a little dive. I am ready to invest and take advantage of the opportunity, which is exactly what I have been doing for many years!

I can afford to pay off my credit card at any point, because i have it in savings, premium bonds, and accessible ISAs (cash and stocks).

It works for my circumstances, and may be not for you!

If you just want an easy access saving account with unlimited withdrawals then I have:

Barclays Premier Rainy Day Saver 3.89% for first £5k
But then I moved to Tesco at 4.05% (1% bonus for a year)
I only use the accounts because I have maxed out all other options.
After tax it is earning less than inflation.


Nothing of what you say adds up.

This is the reality of what I see from the information you have provided about getting free money by using 0% balance transfers.

Credit card transfers to a deposit account

Let's assume that you can get 12 x 0% balance transfers active and get £10k on each transfer = £120k. Let's also assume that every account gives you three years at 0%.

Interest earned

If you’re really clever and with all your moving around, you manage to get 6% from day one for the full 36 months, on all of the money in high interest accounts – However I think this is extremely unlikely.

Let’s go along with it though - Stretch this out to three years and you're really clever and keep moving deposits AND can still manage to find banks with these deals at 6% for 3 years – that you get for every single day your money is on deposit.

That's a gross of £7,200 per annum (£120k x 6%), which is added to your taxable income.  Over three years tis works out to £21,600.

Deductions

However, you will also have to make minimum monthly payments on each card each month, on £10k it’s £278 per month. This repayment requirement means that the amount you have on deposit is gradually reducing, and will only earn £1,031 interest per £10k over 3 years. Therefore the net interest over 3 years on £120k is actually £12,372 and not £21,600. And, it doesn't matter where the money comes from, as soon as it's paid, it stops earning interest for you wherever it was before.

£12,372

Tax

You’ll have to pay 20% tax on the interest earned, leaving a net £9897. However you said you are at the 40% tax bracket, so we need to deduct 40%, leaving just £7,423

Transfer fee

There’s also the annual fee that all these cards charge, which at an average of 3.5% comes to £4,200

Net result

After all that if you can get £120k on balance free for 36 months and manage all the different transfers in and out of high interest bearing account you’re left with the grand total of £3,223 – That’s if you leave all the money there and is the result at the end of the experiment!!

Net result - £3,223

But you said the reason you’re doing it is

“I am not doing it to make a fortune on the banks interest rates, but to give me cash flow so that I don’t have to cash in my Stocks - that’s the important bit."   

So where is this cash flow?

I’ve never heard so much hocus pocus bullshit.

You’re also chatting gibberish about your NI contributions and reducing your tax, maxing out your pension, there’s a lot of contradictions there and you haven’t made any of it sound plausible.

I'm happy to be proved wrong with your real life figures that you can substantiate, until then my opinion is that you are living in cloud cuckoo land.

Offline Moby Dick

To Pilotman.

I think you need to do some research.
But I will try and help with the bigger aspects

1)If you contribute to a pension (in my case aditional contribution through an employer) that amount comes of your taxable income, and for me also it not used for NI contribitions (my employer also benefits)
2) by putting into my pension, my savings are not taxed at 40%, because my taxable income is now below that £50k threshold. (This was also true if you have children when HMRC calculate tax credits, and student finance calculates student loans , parental contribution for you children going to university)
3) I am not paying any interest / annual fees on credit cards whatsoever.
4) transfer fees, 0% are available, I’ve done 1.5%, and 3% over 36 months - so basically it’s a free loan, and in some cases I am borrowing circa £20k at an equivalent of 1% interest per annum.
5) I also have a 36month 0% purchase card which i always try and use.
6) the bills are going on the credit card, freeing up money for savings, pensions and investments. When the credit card needs repaying I look for another zero percent deal or take from numerous savings.

Works for me. It’s sustainable, I never miss a payment or pay more on fees than what I can get in interest.
I have over 15 credit card by the way, some I don’t use because the rates aren’t zero % but I keep them because it helps keep my overall credit card utilisation below 50% alllowing me access to more credit.

It’s cash flow - I don’t have to worry about unexpected bills or dip on stocks.

You need to think differently about debts. The mega rich don’t pay all their tax on income. They borrow money to themselves at interest rates that are lower than what HMRC would try and deduct as income tax.


Offline Mr Garmin

So MB, I'm curious, How much do you actually make, bottom line, after tax after all that hassle of moving money around?

I don't do any of that and I'm just checking that my time is still best spent running my company.

Offline Moby Dick

I think the conventional way of saving and investing that many of us adopt from our parents generation are flawed.
Get Married - no way, lose half!
Own Property- why?
Pay your mortgage off early - why?
Work until retirement age - 67 - why?

My thinking these days is the opposite - simply because of TAX:
You earn money, you pay income tax and NI
You spend money, you pay VAT
You inherit money, you pay IHT
You sell an asset you pay CGT
You buy a house you pay Stamp Duty - TAX
You have a house you pay council tax
You have a brown garden waste bin - more tax
You own a car you pay road tax

Plus, and this one really pisses me off , they intend to make pensions part of the estate for IHT purposes
So it will no longer pass tax free to your kids. So when your estate is worth over £325k (single/not married) + £175k (house to dependants) your kids pay TAX on the inheritance and then income tax on withdrawals at their marginal rates - works out to be 68% tax - there is no point trying to pass on a pension to children

Why work all our life paying off a mortgage early, just to then have all your earnings tied up in equity. You need to borrow more, remortgage it , have cash flow - 4% or 5% mortgage is nothing, the asset will probably appreciate more than this, and with inflation 10years later that mortgage looks cheap, and you can invest that money elsewhere. Your asset / house will still gain even though the bank owns a share. You should have borrowed more. I know I made this mistake, but it’s not too late.

I intend to do release the capital in my house at the most favourable interest only mortgage rate (they will come down)  stick as much as I can in my Pension (£60k limit + previous years), to reduce my taxable income for my last few years of working.
I will then live on that mortgage money (it’s not taxable), and from 55 start drawing down £50k pa from my pension at the tax free and 20% income tax rate before my state pension kicks in.
At 67 I will fall back on my ISAs (tax fee income). And top up with what’s left in my pensions (at the 20% rate)

At some point in everyone’s life you realise that time left is more valuable than any asset or money you own.
I intend to spend it (cash where I can - whores are probably the best option unless they start adding VAT)


Offline Moby Dick

So MB, I'm curious, How much do you actually make, bottom line, after tax after all that hassle of moving money around?

I don't do any of that and I'm just checking that my time is still best spent running my company.
For me it’s just a sideline , to maximise your earnings, reduce your taxable income, not to replace your income or job, although on paper this last year my pension / investments have grown by more than I can earn in a year.

Keep the maths simple: borrow £100k interest free, put in savings (ISA) at 4% it’s only £4k pa - peanuts, but is a nice punting fund.
Put it in your pension it’s immediately worth £125k (20% marginal rate), £166k (40%), with potential to grow above inflation (10% depending on your attitude risk / where invested)
Half these amounts if you can only get £50k credit.

If you go for the pension route then make sure you have other savings / income to pay back the credit card.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2026, 03:56:25 pm by Moby Dick »

Offline Moby Dick

Also, I have ISA's with 212, they aren't paying 4.62%.
Google is good, but it's giving you false information, that your regurgitating here.
That confirms my belief that you're just chatting shit in your previous post, with all drivel about living on credit  :lol:

Unlucky you. I am getting 4.62%.  :yahoo:
Not regurgitating anything from Google, not talking drivel or chatting shit.


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Offline PilotMan

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6) the bills are going on the credit card, freeing up money for savings, pensions and investments. When the credit card needs repaying I look for another zero percent deal or take from numerous savings.

Works for me. It’s sustainable, I never miss a payment or pay more on fees than what I can get in interest.


It’s cash flow - I don’t have to worry about unexpected bills or dip on stocks.



You need to think differently about debts. The mega rich don’t pay all their tax on income. They borrow money to themselves at interest rates that are lower than what HMRC would try and deduct as income tax.


You just keep saying it's cashflow, but it's not, as you have to make minimum credit card payments each month. The bottom line is for every £10k you have on a 0% card over three years - you will net just £268.58 at the end of 3 years; if, and only if, you maximise everything.

If you think it's different or you're making more money in another way, then share with us your calculations. Don't just throw percentages and tax rates around, show us the exact calculations that led you to believe that this makes financial sense (you did do that didn't you?).

Re you need to think differently about debt and the "rich borrow money to themselves"  ;) I think you mean lend money to themselves.

The "buy, borrow die" principle often lauded by so called financial guru's on Instagram and YouTube, only works if you have sufficient unencumbered assets and if HMRC don't consider that you are doing it as a means of income. If you are using it as a means of income, or HMRC think you are, then you will get taxed accordingly, no matter how rich you are.

For example, you you get a whole life mortgage on your property and invest the money, the amount you draw down won't be taxed. But, the money you draw down will depreciate and lose value, unless you do something with it. If you do nothing with it, then it becomes worth less than the debt, that's dumb, so you need to invest it.

If you invest it, then any income derived from that investment will be taxed.

The super rich don't really do this, it's only people on Instagram / YouTube selling you financial training courses that tell you they do.

The super rich use their assets to get leverage and acquire something that is worth more (it's potentially only worth more at a future date) than the amount being drawn. It's not debt in the usual sense, as the asset is usually appreciating and the appreciation eventually covers the debt. This is how the super rich use so called debt.

But you're not doing that, you are actually getting yourself in to real debt on a credit card for almost fuck all return, the credit card isn't appreciating, it's not asset backed, it offers no tax relief. It's probably damaging your credit rating. You're then putting that money in to a savings account that's taxed  :dash:  It's you who needs to think differently about debt, because the way you're doing it does not stack up.

And, your description of how your able to pay back the monthly payments from other sources ("numerous savings"), is just "robbing Peter to pay Paul", it's all smoke and mirrors.

Show us the actual real world calculations and how they pan out  :unknown:

Offline PilotMan

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Unlucky you. I am getting 4.62%.  :yahoo:
Not regurgitating anything from Google, not talking drivel or chatting shit.


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That's a one year introductory rate for new customers with a bonus of 1% - worth all of £200.

Offline Moby Dick

That's a one year introductory rate for new customers with a bonus of 1% - worth all of £200.
But it is true, it’s the correct rate, and you accused me of regurgitating stuff from Google. How about an apology?

£20000*4.62%=£924.00 not £200
But as I’ve already said that doesn’t matter to me. it’s just another pot of cash to help cash flow should I choose to invest it, or I can pay back whenever I want or just transfer to another card when needs must -  hardly rocket science.

Offline Darren101

I think he meant 1% of £20,000 is £200 when looking just at the interest. Still nice money for nothing and tax free

Offline Moby Dick

I think he meant 1% of £20,000 is £200 when looking just at the interest. Still nice money for nothing and tax free
Yes I also think that, but he was wrong to say that 212 aren’t paying 4.62% just because his introductory rate has probably expired. Tried to help him but thinks he knows it all. Can’t educate pork is what I say.

212 is probably one of the better places for short term cash, doesn’t bother me if it depreciates due to inflation because it’s cost me nothing to borrow. If I need the cash it’s there ready at short notice.

Offline Darren101

That part, I agree with you. The deal does or did exist, just not available to everyone so he was wrong on that point.  I transfered my pot to get myself 4.14% for the year with Virgin, as all the better rate accounts didn't allow transfer ins, just new money.    :unknown:

I will focus a bit more on S&S this year.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2026, 10:20:37 pm by Darren101 »

Offline PilotMan

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Yes I also think that, but he was wrong to say that 212 aren’t paying 4.62% just because his introductory rate has probably expired. Tried to help him but thinks he knows it all. Can’t educate pork is what I say.

212 is probably one of the better places for short term cash, doesn’t bother me if it depreciates due to inflation because it’s cost me nothing to borrow. If I need the cash it’s there ready at short notice.

You keep repeating about it costing you nothing, but you still haven't shown the workings of where this strategy of yours is viable. Nada, nothing. You've gone silent on that, so I am of the belief that's it's all a load of hypothetical croc, that you're unable to back up with real numbers.

212 Interest Rate

I accept that the rate is available, if only on an introductory basis, and only for recent new customers. That's why I said YOU'RE not getting that, because I don't actually believe you had a 212 account with any funds in it. You may have since opened an account, but if you already had one from before you would not be getting the rate you mentioned.

I have a 212 account and the screenshot you show isn't where the interest rate is shown. It's in a different place. What's shown below that drop down box is something else. I'm happy to be proved wrong and offer a full apology if you post up a screen shot showing the interest rate in the correct place, and showing the date of your first deposit - redact anything personal.

Last but not least, you keep blabbing on about "super rich" as if to align yourself with them and their strategy and that the super rich have a different attitude towards debt. You're confused and don't seem to understand the difference between straight debt and leveraged debt.

HNW people leverage their assets (collateral) in order to invest in something that has an equal value with a greater upside. HNWI's don't have long term credit card debt, because it would compromise their credibility. They may well use a credit card to spend, but they pay it at the end of the month.

You, on the other hand, are suggesting that you borrow money on a credit card and just transfer that money somewhere else that gives a higher rate of interest. That's a straight swap on your personal balance sheet - Debt Vs. Asset. That's not leverage, in fact it's worse than debt, it's bad debt, because credit card debt damages your standing / reputation.
 
Can you imagine a super rich person going in to raise finance for their next venture and the funder comes back after doing a credit check and asks why they have all this credit card debt - "Oh it's because I make a couple of hundred pounds over three years for every £10k I have on a credit card" - they would be laughed out the door.

As for me knowing everything, I don't, nobody does. But I obviously know a lot more than you, as I'm willing and able to prove my calculations, you on the other hand seem unable to do that.

Offline Moby Dick


I did the whole "Rate Tart" thing for at least 10 or 12 years constantly moving to another 0% credit card deal and also had a 0% interest free overdraft up to £1500 which was normally maxed out but many of the deals seemed to fall away with the 2008 credit crunch and by then I was earning more and couldn't be arsed constantly chasing it.


Thanks BR :thumbsup:
I haven’t checked my overdrafts for several years - most are at circa 40% but today I have managed to get another £2k interest free on my overdrafts so that helps further with my cash flow and no doubt will wind up PORKman.

Offline Mr Garmin

I don't understand all this nickel and diming.  All that work to make 2s 6d.

You've all convinced me that my time is best spent just doing my job.

My various investments just sit in the background earning interest/rent/capital growth.

Offline Moby Dick

Yawn
PM : WTF you going on about?

You are totally missing the point.

I don’t need to provide a calculation and I can’t be arsed correcting your poor attempt to slur me by introducing fees, interest repayments that don’t exist, and excessive repayments. Haven’t you got a life?

Doesn’t matter if I earn £3k or £4k a year tax free from my Credit Card activity.
(I estimate it’s probably around £40k over the last 20years. )

As I have repeatedly said I don’t do it for that. I do it to help my cash flow. Yes it’s a flow of cash that comes in and gets repaid some years later without fail. The majority is totally interest free. It acts as a cushion so that I can make bigger payments into my pension (from my wages) and not worry about any emergencies or drops in the stock market. It’s not a fixed time period, its multiple cards, simply transfer the balance or pay back. I will consider 3% fees preferably for the longer sat period typically 36months, so that’s roughly 1% per year, but I don’t do a calculation - no need when I get ISAs above 4%. It’s not a business, I don’t need to present an argument to a bank manager. I haven’t mentioned the super rich, you keep banging on about it. On another post I have stated my attitude to debt has changed as I get older. I wish I had borrowed more when my mortgage was tracking 1%  below base rate. With my limited knowledge I have realised my asset, my house, and my salary has grown faster than the interest payments and I will consider mortgaging again when the rates become more favourable.

Go back to my reply in response to other members “worrying” or constantly checking what the stock markets are doing
There is no pain, no gains to lose unless you have to sell your stocks / cash in.
Thats why you have a buffer, at least 3 months, preferably 2 years short term “available” money. Get this cushion first before investing in the stock markets and you will have nothing to worry about.

Overall the Dow is up 20% and FTSE up 34% over the last 12 months. It’s been a great year for my investments.

BR politely questioned having a buffer in bank accounts at 2% , preferring to top up his funds/stocks at 10%. I then replied stating I have ISA at 4.3% and regular savers between 7 and 8%
You asked for details which I replied only to get a load of abuse.
BTW i have all of those accounts I listed. I got 212 on Friday and not that’s it’s any of you business I have funded both cash and stock ISAs on Saturday morning before doing the snapshot. I don’t know what you are looking at, I scrolled the top details off the page to hide the amounts, but since you continue to doubt here you go  -   keep your frigging apology - hopefully you will learn not to doubt or criticise others.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2026, 08:11:40 am by Iloveoral »

Offline Moby Dick


I’ve never heard so much hocus pocus bullshit.

You’re also chatting gibberish about your NI contributions and reducing your tax, maxing out your pension, there’s a lot of contradictions there and you haven’t made any of it sound plausible.


Not gibberish: If you dont understand why don’t you look up Salary Sacrifice, Income Tax and NI thresholds.
Then work out what tax and NI savings are made by paying £60k per year into a pension.

Having a buffer, a pot of cash that covers what i owe on credit cards, and emergency / unexpected spends gives me the flexibility to pay more into a pension if I want to.  This is where the real ££££ is , not the poultry £3k to £4k per year I make borrowing money and then putting in an ISA

(although £4k net/take home is almost £7k gross, so I am sure most would be happy having that as a bonus in their pay packet every year)
« Last Edit: April 12, 2026, 08:17:14 pm by Moby Dick »

Offline PilotMan

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@Moby Dick

You still haven’t disproved my calculation that all this faffing about – call it cashflow, call it what you will, is all just chump change.


Truth is consistent.  You chop and change your mind and / or seem forgetful.


I haven’t mentioned the super rich,


Sorry, it was mega rich  :lol:



You need to think differently about debts. The mega rich don’t pay all their tax on income.



You seem confused as to whether you have a mortgage or not  :unknown:



I pay my bills (no mortgage, no dependents),



I wish I had borrowed more when my mortgage was tracking 1%  below base rate.  With my limited knowledge I have realised my asset, my house, and my salary has grown faster than the interest payments




I apologise that when I said (at 1.01AM on Saturday) you aren't getting those rates on 212 that it was possible to get those rates on 212 for new members with an offer that started this April.

You said latterly, that you opened an account on Friday - and funded it on Saturday.



I got 212 on Friday and not that’s it’s any of you business I have funded both cash and stock ISAs on Saturday morning before doing the snapshot.



BTW, it looks to me like you have zero in your 212 account, because the earnings line is flat :lol:


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When you have money in it, it looks like this;





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Offline Moby Dick

Apology accepted PM
Although it reads as though you can’t let it go. Still having a little niggle?

Correct I don’t have a mortgage, and I ain’t confused.
The tracker i mentioned ran its cause several years ago. I wish I borrowed more. I tried to increase the loan amount towards the end of the term, but they offered a rate above BOE, basically a remortgage, which I declined and let the debt run down to zero

I have already maxed out my Trading 212 and ISA contributions for this tax year.
 
Your snapshot shows numerous steps of small amounts.

Take another look at mine, do you see the two vertical lines made in the past few days.
This show two cash deposits, spare cash from my CC borrowing.
It may sit in there for a year until I find a new home. I don’t need to pay it back for 3 years so it gives me options. Should make over £3k from nothing. As you say chump change, I say peanuts, I agree. As I’ve said it’s a buffer, a back up, another bucket.

Correct I didn’t say super rich, I diidnt forget  :sarcastic: and I haven’t been banging on about it. You keep bringing it up :dash:
HNW? - High Net Worth - how much is high? How much to join that club? Sorry that’s impolite to talk money amounts, hence I won’t be sharing any more specifics about mine. Hopefully you’ve got the gist by now.

Every day is a learning day
How you getting on with understanding pension relief and taxable allowances, NI thresholds and Salary Sacrifice?

 :hi:
« Last Edit: April 13, 2026, 12:50:53 am by Moby Dick »

Offline PilotMan

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How you getting on with understanding pension relief and taxable allowances, NI thresholds and Salary Sacrifice?



I understand it perfectly. What I said was, is that you are talking gibberish, because you have a lot of contradictions in what you say about it. I'll point that out when I get time, and if I can be arsed  ;)

You said you CBA to do the calculations as to the viability of your scheme, I wonder why.