Anti-Social Behaviour Notices for prossies & punters caught in brothel raid??

[vt]

I was just watching the BBC programme 'Caught Red Handed' which had a filmed raid on a brothel in the London Borough of Newham.

They reported that the Police served Anti-Social Behaviour Notices on the young EE prossies at the premises and also a punter who they caught red-handed in one of the rooms upstairs.

Is this the same as an ASBO? They used the word 'Notice', not 'Order'??
Is it lawful for them to serve these notices on prossies & punters who have committed no crime?
Can you refuse to be served one?
What are the implications of having one?
Do they remain on file forever?
Do they show up on CRB checks?
What should a punter do if he is caught in a raid?

The female Council Officer who accompanied this raid seemed to be on a crusade to rid the Borough of informal brothels in residential areas and no doubt wanted the publicity generated by this filmed raid to discourage punters.

[Jimmyredcab]

I can't understand this at all, it is not against the law to visit a brothel --------- unless it can be proven that the girls are being forced to work against their will.
This is all I can find online, from the Newham Recorder ---------  January 2014

Raids on residential properties suspected of being used as brothels have been carried out in the latest operation in a ground-breaking crackdown on prostitution.

Newham Council is one of the first local authorities in the country to use planning regulations to clampdown on the sex-for-sale trade being carried out behind the net curtains of seemingly ordinary terraced houses and flats across the borough.

In the latest of the weekly swoops – last Wednesday evening – eight properties were visited by planning officers and police as part of 
Operation Miami launched 10 months ago.

One was suspected of being a brothel and the landlord was served with an enforcement notice.

The council has already shut 37 brothels as part of the initiative, which doesn’t require them to have a warrant.

They have the power to shutdown a brothel and prosecute a landlord for failing to comply with an enforcement notice.

Women sex workers found in raided homes are provided with a medical pack by police, containing details of organisations for them to seek help to give up the vice trade.

While it is illegal to run a brothel or solicit sex on the street, it is technically legal for a woman to charge for sex in her own home, if she is working alone.

However, if planning officers can prove a house is not being used for its intended purpose the brothel can be closed down within two days.

Insp Phil Stinger, of the enforcement partnership team, described how a dramatic increase in reports of off-street prostitution in the past two years had led to the launch of the operation.

“Complaints from concerned residents were growing in relation to an increase in brothels across the borough,” he said. He advised residents with concerns prostitutes may be using a property to contact their local neighbourhood team or the council.

Cllr Ian Corbett, the council’s executive member for infrastructure and environment, said: “The existence of brothels within residential areas is not new to London and is not solely a Newham issue. However, we are one of the first 
local authorities to use our planning powers to tackle it.”

[Happylad]

There is nothing at all novel about this - except that the Council and Police are actually DOING it .

It is a criminal offence to own or manage a brothel, and if two or more pro$$ies join together to use one house for their trade they are in effect "managing" a brothel.  Once it is established that whoever is running or managing the business is committing a criminal offence, then ipso facto anyone conspiring in the commission of that offence (i.e. the punter) is also breaking the law.

This is simply one of the hazards of running or visiting a brothel, and Police Forces all over the country have had sporadic purges in their areas - usually when the brothels (parlours) have become too many, too obvious, or too big a nuisance to the local residents.

[Jimmyredcab]

There is nothing at all novel about this - except that the Council and Police are actually DOING it .

It is a criminal offence to own or manage a brothel, and if two or more pro$$ies join together to use one house for their trade they are in effect "managing" a brothel.  Once it is established that whoever is running or managing the business is committing a criminal offence, then ipso facto anyone conspiring in the commission of that offence (i.e. the punter) is also breaking the law.

Are you a lawyer. ??????
It is news to me that you are breaking the law when you visit a brothel.  ??????????
What exactly would you be charged with. ???????

[CatBBW]

It is a criminal offence to own or manage a brothel, and if two or more pro$$ies join together to use one house for their trade they are in effect "managing" a brothel.  Once it is established that whoever is running or managing the business is committing a criminal offence, then ipso facto anyone conspiring in the commission of that offence (i.e. the punter) is also breaking the law.

To my knowledge of the prossying laws as they stand, it's not a crime to work in a brothel, neither is it a crime to visit one.

So I can't understand why the Newham punters and pros got served with notices, if none of them were running the brothel

[vt]

There is nothing at all novel about this - except that the Council and Police are actually DOING it .

It is a criminal offence to own or manage a brothel, and if two or more pro$$ies join together to use one house for their trade they are in effect "managing" a brothel.  Once it is established that whoever is running or managing the business is committing a criminal offence, then ipso facto anyone conspiring in the commission of that offence (i.e. the punter) is also breaking the law.

This is simply one of the hazards of running or visiting a brothel, and Police Forces all over the country have had sporadic purges in their areas - usually when the brothels (parlours) have become too many, too obvious, or too big a nuisance to the local residents.

I understand that Police have powers to close brothels and charge those managing them with offences. I understand that Police can serve a Anti-Social Behaviour Notice on a landlord of a property to try and stop any unlawful use of his property by his tenants.

I also understand that local councils can serve stop notices on premises that don't have the correct planning permission for their current use and they obviously would never give permission for a brothel.

But can a punter be given a ASBN/ASBO for being caught punting? Can a prossie be given a ASBN/ASBO for being in a suspected brothel? Or was this just misinformation given in the programme?

[CatBBW]

But can a punter be given a ASBN/ASBO for being caught punting? Can a prossie be given a ASBN/ASBO for being in a suspected brothel? Or was this just misinformation given in the programme?

I'm thinking it's misinformation. The said prozzies may well have been parading around outside in their undies, getting drunk/high on the street, arguing with their pimp, shouting at neighbours etc. All this would have been enough to award an ASBO/ASBN.

[maxxblue]

The article in the Newham Recorder mentioned by JRC does not refer to any punters receiving any form of sanction.

VT - are you certain that the punter was given an Anti Social Behaviour Notice, and not just questioned by the police?

[Jimmyredcab]

But can a punter be given a ASBN/ASBO for being caught punting? Can a prossie be given a ASBN/ASBO for being in a suspected brothel? Or was this just misinformation given in the programme?

I suspect misinformation, it was the BBC after all, can we really trust them to be unbiased, I don't think so.     

[vt]

The article in the Newham Recorder mentioned by JRC does not refer to any punters receiving any form of sanction.

VT - are you certain that the punter was given an Anti Social Behaviour Notice, and not just questioned by the police?

OK, just checked. It was the programme before Caught Red Handed, called Street Patrol UK, both have that cheeky bald cockney midget Dominic Littlewood fronting them. I can't watch it again to double-check what was said as they haven't put it on IPlayer yet.

External Link/Members Only

Pretty sure the voiceover said ASBNs for the 3 young EE prossies and the black punter they caught upstairs with his pants down, but all I heard the Police asking the guy what he was doing there and whether he had ID. I reckon the programme makers are embroidering the story and it was just the landlord who was served with some sort of Notice to stop his tenants using the premises as a brothel.

[Barry Shipton]

Sounds like scare tactics bollocks - as Catherine says unless their behaviour caused issues for the neighbours I can't see how they can issue an ASBN. Would be a first for activities in the indoor privacy of a house.

What does sound new is using planning laws and Notices against landlords - if they are aware they are already breaking the law on brothels but that can be tricky, time consuming and therefore expensive for the police to get a criminal conviction just to shut down a bedsit with three EE girls working it. Especially as they are there today and gone next week - might take at least three months to get to court.

Much cheaper and easier to use planning laws (because you can't get planning consent for a brothel because it's illegal) and ASBN for allowing a potentially anti social use (again because it's illegal) but without the cost of getting a conviction.

Sounds like Newham - think they have been featured on here before running some bullshit survey on prostitution - because they seem to have a moral crusade, police will go along with it because it makes their job easier.

[smiths]

There is nothing at all novel about this - except that the Council and Police are actually DOING it .

It is a criminal offence to own or manage a brothel, and if two or more pro$$ies join together to use one house for their trade they are in effect "managing" a brothel.  Once it is established that whoever is running or managing the business is committing a criminal offence, then ipso facto anyone conspiring in the commission of that offence (i.e. the punter) is also breaking the law.

This is simply one of the hazards of running or visiting a brothel, and Police Forces all over the country have had sporadic purges in their areas - usually when the brothels (parlours) have become too many, too obvious, or too big a nuisance to the local residents.

Incorrect, its really important to post accurate facts on here as some punters might believe you here. A punter punting in a brothel ISNT breaking the law unless its proved a woman or women were being coerced or were underage. A premises is also a brothel if only 1 WG works out if it BUT at any other time another WG works out the same premises, so 1 different WG working out of the same premises per day also makes it a brothel.

I have no idea about these notices as far as punters are concerned but as punting off-street isnt a crime except in the circumstances i mention above seeing a Solicitor before accepting such a notice would be my advice, though that might mean the police getting arsey. Whatever you do dont give the police a false name as that is an offence.

[smiths]

It really couldnt be simpler for the police to prove a premises is a brothel. They can just send in undercover cops to gather the evidence. My understanding is a closure order valid for an initial 3 months can then be served. What i find puzzling is why they dont always serve the closure notice on a brothel, a totally illegal operation. Nowadays i can only assume its so they can pursue POCA and get even more assets off the pimp. Plus if he or she continues to operate even after the initial raid once its gets to court the judge might think they are total pisstakers for not closing straight away.

Whatever, one thing i am certain off is the pimp/s is in a world of shit, apart from being done for running a brothel, controlling prostitutes for gain and POCA there is also possibly the tax man to face assuming they havent been paying tax on their illegal business obviously.

[Silverado]

They reported that the Police served Anti-Social Behaviour Notices on the young EE prossies at the premises and also a punter who they caught red-handed in one of the rooms upstairs.

Is this the same as an ASBO? They used the word 'Notice', not 'Order'??
Is it lawful for them to serve these notices on prossies & punters who have committed no crime? ..................

As far as I'm aware, ASBN's are Scottish. (ie. under the Antisocial Behaviour etc (Scotland) Act 2004).

Quite often the police will hand out written packs of advice to help women leave the business, including medical advice and legal warnings. Different forces call these different things. I suspect that's what they received. I doubt that the punter received anything, although he could of course have received a printed sheet of paper advising him generally about the problems (including anti-social behaviour) experienced in the neighbourhood as a result of the brothels. This would be non-statutory - a bit like the letters that the police send to the registered keepers of cars persistently seen in red light districts.

 

It is a criminal offence to own or manage a brothel, and if two or more pro$$ies join together to use one house for their trade they are in effect "managing" a brothel.  Once it is established that whoever is running or managing the business is committing a criminal offence, then ipso facto anyone conspiring in the commission of that offence (i.e. the punter) is also breaking the law.

Nonsense. How exactly is the punter conspiring in the keeping or managing of the brothel. That's stretching the law of "conspiracy" way too far.

What does sound new is using planning laws and Notices against landlords - if they are aware they are already breaking the law on brothels but that can be tricky, time consuming and therefore expensive for the police to get a criminal conviction just to shut down a bedsit with three EE girls working it. Especially as they are there today and gone next week - might take at least three months to get to court.

It used to be quite difficult. That's why the Policing and Crime Act 2009 introduced closure orders. The police issue a closure notice, and the magistrates must hear the application within 48 hours.  Usually they're not contested and the magistrates rubber stamp the application. It's both quick and cheap.

[smiths]

As far as I'm aware, ASBN's are Scottish. (ie. under the Antisocial Behaviour etc (Scotland) Act 2004).

Quite often the police will hand out written packs of advice to help women leave the business, including medical advice and legal warnings. Different forces call these different things. I suspect that's what they received. I doubt that the punter received anything, although he could of course have received a printed sheet of paper advising him generally about the problems (including anti-social behaviour) experienced in the neighbourhood as a result of the brothels. This would be non-statutory - a bit like the letters that the police send to the registered keepers of cars persistently seen in red light districts.

 
Nonsense. How exactly is the punter conspiring in the keeping or managing of the brothel. That's stretching the law of "conspiracy" way too far.

It used to be quite difficult. That's why the Policing and Crime Act 2009 introduced closure orders. The police issue a closure notice, and the magistrates must hear the application within 48 hours.  Usually they're not contested and the magistrates rubber stamp the application. It's both quick and cheap.

Good to see someone i know knows the law far better than me posting about this.

[Horizontal pleasures]

External Link/Members Only

a summary of the popular or official stance. How can we challenge it?

[vt]

As far as I'm aware, ASBN's are Scottish. (ie. under the Antisocial Behaviour etc (Scotland) Act 2004).

Quite often the police will hand out written packs of advice to help women leave the business, including medical advice and legal warnings. Different forces call these different things. I suspect that's what they received. I doubt that the punter received anything, although he could of course have received a printed sheet of paper advising him generally about the problems (including anti-social behaviour) experienced in the neighbourhood as a result of the brothels. This would be non-statutory - a bit like the letters that the police send to the registered keepers of cars persistently seen in red light districts.

 
Nonsense. How exactly is the punter conspiring in the keeping or managing of the brothel. That's stretching the law of "conspiracy" way too far.

It used to be quite difficult. That's why the Policing and Crime Act 2009 introduced closure orders. The police issue a closure notice, and the magistrates must hear the application within 48 hours.  Usually they're not contested and the magistrates rubber stamp the application. It's both quick and cheap.

Thanks for your informed opinion on this.

The programme is repeated on BBC2 on Mon 8th Sept at 7:05am if anyone wants to see it. Maybe they'll stick it on iPlayer after that.

[Dani]

Its not a crime to work in or visit a brothel.  However you can be served an antisocial behaviour notice or even arrested for antisocial behaviour if the police deem you are causing a disturbance to the public, such as loitering outside or making noise or even swearing in public
The notice is not the same as an ASBO as it is just a warning on a piece of paper a bit like the yellow cards some towns hand out or the warning you get if you are caught with a small amount of weed.  It does mean however if you are caught causing a disturbance again you will be arrested and not given another notice

Some brothels the girls do hang around outside smoking, or the punters hang around especially in the evening (Bubbles derby for a start and not even a proper brothel as no sex).  This can be seen as antisocial behaviour

[Tricky Dickie]

... However you can be served an antisocial behaviour notice or even arrested for antisocial behaviour if the police deem you are causing a disturbance to the public, such as loitering outside or making noise or even swearing in public
The notice is not the same as an ASBO as it is just a warning on a piece of paper a bit like the yellow cards some towns hand out or the warning you get if you are caught with a small amount of weed.  It does mean however if you are caught causing a disturbance again you will be arrested and not given another notice

Some brothels the girls do hang around outside smoking, or the punters hang around especially in the evening (Bubbles derby for a start and not even a proper brothel as no sex).  This can be seen as antisocial behaviour

Are you sure about this? I can see the grounds for a public order offence if you're swearing in public. Just what offence though is there in "loitering" (ie. standing around)? The same for "making noise" especially during the daytime? This isn't Switzerland!

[Wowgeek]

Are you sure about this? I can see the grounds for a public order offence if you're swearing in public. Just what offence though is there in "loitering" (ie. standing around)? The same for "making noise" especially during the daytime? This isn't Switzerland!

'Hanging Around' would be Highway Obstruction and 'Making a Noise' possibly S.5 Public Order depending on what the 'noise' was.

[Tricky Dickie]

'Hanging Around' would be Highway Obstruction and 'Making a Noise' possibly S.5 Public Order depending on what the 'noise' was.

I call BS. The police can't just make thus stuff up.

[ampersand]

Its not a crime to work in or visit a brothel.  However you can be served an antisocial behaviour notice or even arrested for antisocial behaviour if the police deem you are causing a disturbance to the public, such as loitering outside or making noise or even swearing in public
The notice is not the same as an ASBO as it is just a warning on a piece of paper a bit like the yellow cards some towns hand out or the warning you get if you are caught with a small amount of weed.  It does mean however if you are caught causing a disturbance again you will be arrested and not given another notice

Some brothels the girls do hang around outside smoking, or the punters hang around especially in the evening (Bubbles derby for a start and not even a proper brothel as no sex).  This can be seen as antisocial behaviour

An Anti - social Behaviour Notice is an informal (i.e. non-statutory) notice issued by the police (or the council) to evidence the fact that the recipient has been found to be acting in an anti - social manner.  There is no appeal process against one, but a recipient would have opportunity to dispute the allegation that their behaviour was disorderly in the event that an ASBO application was made to a court.  It is not correct that a subsequent instance of you being alleged to be acting in an anti - social manner could lead to an arrest, unless that behaviour itself amounted to a criminal offence.  The behaviour complained of would not of itself have to amount to a substantive offence for a notice to be given.  A punter in a brothel could be given a notice - on the basis that punting itself creates demand for a brothel,  which could lead to antisocial behaviour.   It would be a matter for the recipient to argue that their behaviour is not per se antisocial at a subsequent ASBO application.  It is an interesting technical legal  point that would almost certainly fail before a Mags Court, but which might succeed on appeal.

[Tricky Dickie]

Just skimmed the programme. It's on iPlayer now. I'm confused about a few things. Just what right has the biddy from the council to conduct a search, much less enter the premises? And who let the film crew in?

[Wowgeek]

Well it seems that the planning officer has a right of entry under the Town and Country Planning Act with notice.  All seems a little suspect though to be honest, although I did smile when they went to the Warehouse that had been used as a brothel without permission.  I think they probably did have permission, it was just a typo in the spelling of Warehouse!

[vt]

An Anti - social Behaviour Notice is an informal (i.e. non-statutory) notice issued by the police (or the council) to evidence the fact that the recipient has been found to be acting in an anti - social manner.  There is no appeal process against one, but a recipient would have opportunity to dispute the allegation that their behaviour was disorderly in the event that an ASBO application was made to a court.  It is not correct that a subsequent instance of you being alleged to be acting in an anti - social manner could lead to an arrest, unless that behaviour itself amounted to a criminal offence.  The behaviour complained of would not of itself have to amount to a substantive offence for a notice to be given.  A punter in a brothel could be given a notice - on the basis that punting itself creates demand for a brothel,  which could lead to antisocial behaviour.   It would be a matter for the recipient to argue that their behaviour is not per se antisocial at a subsequent ASBO application.  It is an interesting technical legal  point that would almost certainly fail before a Mags Court, but which might succeed on appeal.

Bizarre...so they can slap one of these notices on you on the basis that what you are doing is not illegal, it is indoors, being conducted discreetly between consenting adults, but because you are supporting an enterprise that might lead to anti-social behaviour in others.

That would be like you as a polite customer getting an ASBN for patronising a corner shop where kids hang about outside making a nuisance of themselves! 

So what are the real-world implications of having your name on one of these notices? Can you refuse to be served one?

Here is the link to the programme if any missed it...External Link/Members Only

[sunday]

Can anyone find any reference to Anti Social Behaviour Notices outside of Scotland? A quick google search has only returned ASBO’s in England.

[berksboy]

External Link/Members Only

[ampersand]

So what are the real-world implications of having your name on one of these notices? Can you refuse to be served one?

No, it is just a record that you have - arguably - behaved in a manner that is antisocial.  Provided that you don't do so again,  no problem.

This is the problem with the antisocial behaviour legislation and the way it can be used that wasn't ever intended by Parliament when it was enacted.  It is a bit like the Protection From Harassment legislation which is now being used to criminalise ever lovesick poor bugger who rings their ex more than once to beg to be taken back.

[sunday]

External Link/Members Only

Are you are referring to “Acceptable Behaviour Contract” in this link? in which case you can refuse to sign as you have not committed an offence.
Of Course, if you did refuse then you would be risking more trouble from the police, so most of us would just sign.

[Silverado]

So what are the real-world implications of having your name on one of these notices? Can you refuse to be served one?

None, apart from the fact that the police have your name and address and your details may be put down on local intelligence as a punter. They are non-statutory and as such have no legal effect. It's just another scare tactic.

It's a meaningless piece of paper with your name written in it advising you that brothels are a source of nuisance in the community etc etc blah blah.

Despite what people are saying here, it's not a record of anything. It's just a polite advisory notice.

You don't have to accept it but they'll probably just try and scare you more if you don't. I certainly wouldn't sign anything by way of acknowledgement of receipt though.

If they give you a notice, and then find you in a different brothel an hour later, what can they do? It's not a crime to pay for the sexual services of a prostitute or to visit a brothel.

[ampersand]

Are you are referring to “Acceptable Behaviour Contract” in this link? in which case you can refuse to sign as you have not committed an offence.
Of Course, if you did refuse then you would be risking more trouble from the police, so most of us would just sign.

No.  The 'authorities' will issue a Notice.  Their copy of it will be used to create a record, which will be used in any subsequent application for an ASBO.

The ABC is a step in the ASBO process.  You could refuse to sign it, but if you did, they would just proceed straight to an ASBO application and cite the refusal to sign the ABC as evidence of necessity for the ASBO. The fact that no criminal offence has been committed is irrelevant - an ASBO is a civil matter - with a criminal sanction in the event of a breach.

[berksboy]

Are you are referring to “Acceptable Behaviour Contract” in this link? in which case you can refuse to sign as you have not committed an offence.
Of Course, if you did refuse then you would be risking more trouble from the police, so most of us would just sign.

   Yep thats the bit i was looking at.

[Jimmyredcab]

If I were to be caught up in a raid I would give my name and address if requested but that is it, if the police attempted to threaten me in any way I would politely tell them to arrest me, they would then have to work out what offense I would be charged with.   

[ampersand]

None, apart from the fact that the police have your name and address and your details may be put down on local intelligence as a punter. They are non-statutory and as such have no legal effect. It's just another scare tactic.

It's a meaningless piece of paper with your name written in it advising you that brothels are a source of nuisance in the community etc etc blah blah.

Despite what people are saying here, it's not a record of anything. It's just a polite advisory notice.

You don't have to accept it but they'll probably just try and scare you more if you don't. I certainly wouldn't sign anything by way of acknowledgement of receipt though.

If they give you a notice, and then find you in a different brothel an hour later, what can they do? It's not a crime to pay for the sexual services of a prostitute or to visit a brothel.

It is not an issue of you signing anything - you are issued with it. They then have a record of the issue of the Notice. If you are caught in another brothel an hour later, they just issue you with another Notice - a further piece of evidence of your antisocial behaviour.

Correct, it is not a crime to pay for the services of a prostitute, or visit a brothel, but it could - arguably - be civil antisocial behaviour.

[JV547845]

If I were to be caught up in a raid I would give my name and address if requested but that is it, if the police attempted to threaten me in any way I would politely tell them to arrest me, they would then have to work out what offense I would be charged with.   

While they waste both your time in the cells.

[Jimmyredcab]

While they waste both your time in the cells.

Then so be it, I have plenty of time to spare.     

[Silverado]

It is not an issue of you signing anything - you are issued with it. They then have a record of the issue of the Notice. If you are caught in another brothel an hour later, they just issue you with another Notice - a further piece of evidence of your antisocial behaviour.

Correct, it is not a crime to pay for the services of a prostitute, or visit a brothel, but it could - arguably - be civil antisocial behaviour.

Let's be quite clear here. It is not anti-social behaviour to visit a brothel, unless you commit anti-social acts ancillary to visiting the brothel.

You may well wish to argue that visiting a brothel could by itself be treated as anti-social behaviour but I very much doubt that any court would agree with you.

If the courts could readily grant ASBOs to punters for merely visiting a brothel, do you not think that the police and CPS would have used the power more often?

[ampersand]

Let's be quite clear here. It is not anti-social behaviour to visit a brothel, unless you commit anti-social acts ancillary to visiting the brothel.

There is a very real risk that a Court would find that by attending at a brothel or similar premises, you contribute to behaviour that is inherently antisocial - cars arriving at night, doors slamming etc.  Prejudice and ignorance on the part of the court could result in an ASBO being granted.

Unless you are a Magistrate or District Judge who regularly hears such cases, I would be cautious about making such statements.  It may well be common sense, but that doesn't necessarily mean that a court would agree with you! !!!!!

[ampersand]

If the courts could readily grant ASBOs to punters for merely visiting a brothel, do you not think that the police and CPS would have used the power more often?

They would if they had thought about it!!!!!

[smiths]

Let's be quite clear here. It is not anti-social behaviour to visit a brothel, unless you commit anti-social acts ancillary to visiting the brothel.

You may well wish to argue that visiting a brothel could by itself be treated as anti-social behaviour but I very much doubt that any court would agree with you.

If the courts could readily grant ASBOs to punters for merely visiting a brothel, do you not think that the police and CPS would have used the power more often?

Exactly what i was thinking. I cant recall any punter on here or Pnet ever posting they had been given one for visiting a brothel despite a number posting they had been caught up in a brothel raid.

If it ever happened i would say i wont accept it until my Solicitor has read it and given their advice. This may piss the police off but far better to do that than just accept this in my view.  Ball then in the police court.

[Silverado]

There is a very real risk that a Court would find that by attending at a brothel or similar premises, you contribute to behaviour that is inherently antisocial - cars arriving at night, doors slamming etc.  Prejudice and ignorance on the part of the court could result in an ASBO being granted.

Unless you are a Magistrate or District Judge who regularly hears such cases, I would be cautious about making such statements.  It may well be common sense, but that doesn't necessarily mean that a court would agree with you! !!!!!

I've been a solicitor for far too long not to know the law.

You are grasping at straws!!!!

[Jimmyredcab]

Plenty of scaremongering bollocks in this thread.     

Can someone please post a link to show where a punter has been arrested for being found in a brothel, no hurry, in your own time.   

[mrfixit37]

Plenty of scaremongering bollocks in this thread.     

Can someone please post a link to show where a punter has been arrested for being found in a brothel, no hurry, in your own time.   

Well said Jimmy redcab.

" good evening officer I had paid this young lady for her time and company and within that time as two consenting adults decided to have sex, what offence have I caused ?"

[Tricky Dickie]

Well said Jimmy redcab.

" good evening officer I had paid this young lady for her time and company and within that time as two consenting adults decided to have sex, what offence have I caused ?"

In one sense you're already making excuses where you don't need to. Why not just say "good evening officer I had paid this young lady for consensual sex, what offence have I committed?"   

[mrfixit37]

Good evening officer I'd like this lady arrested for fraud she said she's was 23 in her profile and Brazilian  and she's turned out to be 30 and from Bulgaria! 

[Watts.E.Dunn]

I suppose   that one day the law will be changed and the local councils will cotton on and the next thing is they'll see that the "licencing fee" will be a good earner for them so we'll have a varient of VAT ;

SAT    Sex Added Tax;((..

[Jackjones]

Good evening officer I'd like this lady arrested for fraud she said she's was 23 in her profile and Brazilian  and she's turned out to be 30 and from Bulgaria! 

I can see his now, police raid the place "Thank god you got here so quickly officer!" could you imagine the look on their face 

[Tricky Dickie]

Good evening officer I'd like this lady arrested for fraud she said she's was 23 in her profile and Brazilian  and she's turned out to be 30 and from Bulgaria! 

Well sir, it would seem from the contents of this condom that you unwisely accepted the changes to the terms of the implied contract so no offence was committed.

[vt]

Plenty of scaremongering bollocks in this thread.     

Can someone please post a link to show where a punter has been arrested for being found in a brothel, no hurry, in your own time.   

My original concern was that any named notice given to the punter would have real-life consequences...name on a computer register, show up on CRB checks, letters to home address, etc....not necessarily the threat of arrest, criminal charges or court appearances.

It seems that the consequences of receiving a named Notice would be no different to the Police taking your name & address for 'further enquiries' if caught in a raid, just a paper note on Local Intelligence held locally.

If Police were to try and issue you with a named notice, would it still be worth pointing out to them politely that you personally have not committed any offence by paying for consensual sex nor have contributed to any anti-social nuisance by your discreet visit and would be willing to receive a verbal warning of the general anti-social nuisance caused by the premises being used as a brothel and that you will not visit this premises again as long as you aren't issued with any named written notice??

[ampersand]

I've been a solicitor for far too long not to know the law.

You are grasping at straws!!!!

Is criminal law your area of expertise?