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Author Topic: Anti-Social Behaviour Notices for prossies & punters caught in brothel raid??  (Read 3352 times)

Offline sunday

Can anyone find any reference to Anti Social Behaviour Notices outside of Scotland? A quick google search has only returned ASBO’s in England.


Offline aardvark

So what are the real-world implications of having your name on one of these notices? Can you refuse to be served one?
No, it is just a record that you have - arguably - behaved in a manner that is antisocial.  Provided that you don't do so again,  no problem.

This is the problem with the antisocial behaviour legislation and the way it can be used that wasn't ever intended by Parliament when it was enacted.  It is a bit like the Protection From Harassment legislation which is now being used to criminalise ever lovesick poor bugger who rings their ex more than once to beg to be taken back.

Offline sunday

http://www.dorset.police.uk/default.aspx?page=5652

Are you are referring to “Acceptable Behaviour Contract” in this link? in which case you can refuse to sign as you have not committed an offence.
Of Course, if you did refuse then you would be risking more trouble from the police, so most of us would just sign.

Online Silverado

So what are the real-world implications of having your name on one of these notices? Can you refuse to be served one?

None, apart from the fact that the police have your name and address and your details may be put down on local intelligence as a punter. They are non-statutory and as such have no legal effect. It's just another scare tactic.

It's a meaningless piece of paper with your name written in it advising you that brothels are a source of nuisance in the community etc etc blah blah.

Despite what people are saying here, it's not a record of anything. It's just a polite advisory notice.

You don't have to accept it but they'll probably just try and scare you more if you don't. I certainly wouldn't sign anything by way of acknowledgement of receipt though.

If they give you a notice, and then find you in a different brothel an hour later, what can they do? It's not a crime to pay for the sexual services of a prostitute or to visit a brothel.


Offline aardvark

Are you are referring to “Acceptable Behaviour Contract” in this link? in which case you can refuse to sign as you have not committed an offence.
Of Course, if you did refuse then you would be risking more trouble from the police, so most of us would just sign.
No.  The 'authorities' will issue a Notice.  Their copy of it will be used to create a record, which will be used in any subsequent application for an ASBO.

The ABC is a step in the ASBO process.  You could refuse to sign it, but if you did, they would just proceed straight to an ASBO application and cite the refusal to sign the ABC as evidence of necessity for the ASBO. The fact that no criminal offence has been committed is irrelevant - an ASBO is a civil matter - with a criminal sanction in the event of a breach.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2014, 10:50:53 AM by aardvark »

Offline berksboy

Are you are referring to “Acceptable Behaviour Contract” in this link? in which case you can refuse to sign as you have not committed an offence.
Of Course, if you did refuse then you would be risking more trouble from the police, so most of us would just sign.

   Yep thats the bit i was looking at.

Offline Jimmyredcab

If I were to be caught up in a raid I would give my name and address if requested but that is it, if the police attempted to threaten me in any way I would politely tell them to arrest me, they would then have to work out what offense I would be charged with.   :hi:

Offline aardvark

None, apart from the fact that the police have your name and address and your details may be put down on local intelligence as a punter. They are non-statutory and as such have no legal effect. It's just another scare tactic.

It's a meaningless piece of paper with your name written in it advising you that brothels are a source of nuisance in the community etc etc blah blah.

Despite what people are saying here, it's not a record of anything. It's just a polite advisory notice.

You don't have to accept it but they'll probably just try and scare you more if you don't. I certainly wouldn't sign anything by way of acknowledgement of receipt though.

If they give you a notice, and then find you in a different brothel an hour later, what can they do? It's not a crime to pay for the sexual services of a prostitute or to visit a brothel.
It is not an issue of you signing anything - you are issued with it. They then have a record of the issue of the Notice. If you are caught in another brothel an hour later, they just issue you with another Notice - a further piece of evidence of your antisocial behaviour.

Correct, it is not a crime to pay for the services of a prostitute, or visit a brothel, but it could - arguably - be civil antisocial behaviour.

Offline JV547845

If I were to be caught up in a raid I would give my name and address if requested but that is it, if the police attempted to threaten me in any way I would politely tell them to arrest me, they would then have to work out what offense I would be charged with.   :hi:

While they waste both your time in the cells.

Offline Jimmyredcab

While they waste both your time in the cells.

Then so be it, I have plenty of time to spare.     :hi: :hi: :hi:

Online Silverado

It is not an issue of you signing anything - you are issued with it. They then have a record of the issue of the Notice. If you are caught in another brothel an hour later, they just issue you with another Notice - a further piece of evidence of your antisocial behaviour.

Correct, it is not a crime to pay for the services of a prostitute, or visit a brothel, but it could - arguably - be civil antisocial behaviour.

Let's be quite clear here. It is not anti-social behaviour to visit a brothel, unless you commit anti-social acts ancillary to visiting the brothel.

You may well wish to argue that visiting a brothel could by itself be treated as anti-social behaviour but I very much doubt that any court would agree with you.

If the courts could readily grant ASBOs to punters for merely visiting a brothel, do you not think that the police and CPS would have used the power more often?

Offline aardvark

Let's be quite clear here. It is not anti-social behaviour to visit a brothel, unless you commit anti-social acts ancillary to visiting the brothel.
There is a very real risk that a Court would find that by attending at a brothel or similar premises, you contribute to behaviour that is inherently antisocial - cars arriving at night, doors slamming etc.  Prejudice and ignorance on the part of the court could result in an ASBO being granted.

Unless you are a Magistrate or District Judge who regularly hears such cases, I would be cautious about making such statements.  It may well be common sense, but that doesn't necessarily mean that a court would agree with you! !!!!!

Offline aardvark

If the courts could readily grant ASBOs to punters for merely visiting a brothel, do you not think that the police and CPS would have used the power more often?
They would if they had thought about it!!!!!

Offline smiths

Let's be quite clear here. It is not anti-social behaviour to visit a brothel, unless you commit anti-social acts ancillary to visiting the brothel.

You may well wish to argue that visiting a brothel could by itself be treated as anti-social behaviour but I very much doubt that any court would agree with you.

If the courts could readily grant ASBOs to punters for merely visiting a brothel, do you not think that the police and CPS would have used the power more often?

Exactly what i was thinking. I cant recall any punter on here or auto-censored ever posting they had been given one for visiting a brothel despite a number posting they had been caught up in a brothel raid.

If it ever happened i would say i wont accept it until my Solicitor has read it and given their advice. This may piss the police off but far better to do that than just accept this in my view.  Ball then in the police court.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2014, 11:52:35 AM by smiths »

Online Silverado

There is a very real risk that a Court would find that by attending at a brothel or similar premises, you contribute to behaviour that is inherently antisocial - cars arriving at night, doors slamming etc.  Prejudice and ignorance on the part of the court could result in an ASBO being granted.

Unless you are a Magistrate or District Judge who regularly hears such cases, I would be cautious about making such statements.  It may well be common sense, but that doesn't necessarily mean that a court would agree with you! !!!!!

I've been a solicitor for far too long not to know the law.

You are grasping at straws!!!!

Offline Jimmyredcab

Plenty of scaremongering bollocks in this thread.     :dash: :dash: :dash: :dash: :dash:

Can someone please post a link to show where a punter has been arrested for being found in a brothel, no hurry, in your own time.    :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Offline mrfixit37

Plenty of scaremongering bollocks in this thread.     :dash: :dash: :dash: :dash: :dash:

Can someone please post a link to show where a punter has been arrested for being found in a brothel, no hurry, in your own time.    :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Well said Jimmy redcab. :thumbsup:

" good evening officer I had paid this young lady for her time and company and within that time as two consenting adults decided to have sex, what offence have I caused ?"

Well said Jimmy redcab. :thumbsup:

" good evening officer I had paid this young lady for her time and company and within that time as two consenting adults decided to have sex, what offence have I caused ?"

In one sense you're already making excuses where you don't need to. Why not just say "good evening officer I had paid this young lady for consensual sex, what offence have I committed?"   :)

Offline mrfixit37

Good evening officer I'd like this lady arrested for fraud she said she's was 23 in her profile and Brazilian  and she's turned out to be 30 and from Bulgaria!  :D :D :D

I suppose   that one day the law will be changed and the local councils will cotton on and the next thing is they'll see that the "licencing fee" will be a good earner for them so we'll have a varient of VAT ;

SAT    Sex Added Tax;((..

Offline Jackjones

Good evening officer I'd like this lady arrested for fraud she said she's was 23 in her profile and Brazilian  and she's turned out to be 30 and from Bulgaria!  :D :D :D

I can see his now, police raid the place "Thank god you got here so quickly officer!" could you imagine the look on their face  :sarcastic:

Good evening officer I'd like this lady arrested for fraud she said she's was 23 in her profile and Brazilian  and she's turned out to be 30 and from Bulgaria!  :D :D :D

Well sir, it would seem from the contents of this condom that you unwisely accepted the changes to the terms of the implied contract so no offence was committed. ;)

Online vt

Plenty of scaremongering bollocks in this thread.     :dash: :dash: :dash: :dash: :dash:

Can someone please post a link to show where a punter has been arrested for being found in a brothel, no hurry, in your own time.    :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

My original concern was that any named notice given to the punter would have real-life consequences...name on a computer register, show up on CRB checks, letters to home address, etc....not necessarily the threat of arrest, criminal charges or court appearances.

It seems that the consequences of receiving a named Notice would be no different to the Police taking your name & address for 'further enquiries' if caught in a raid, just a paper note on Local Intelligence held locally.

If Police were to try and issue you with a named notice, would it still be worth pointing out to them politely that you personally have not committed any offence by paying for consensual sex nor have contributed to any anti-social nuisance by your discreet visit and would be willing to receive a verbal warning of the general anti-social nuisance caused by the premises being used as a brothel and that you will not visit this premises again as long as you aren't issued with any named written notice??

« Last Edit: September 06, 2014, 12:52:43 PM by vt »

Offline aardvark

I've been a solicitor for far too long not to know the law.

You are grasping at straws!!!!
Is criminal law your area of expertise?


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