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Author Topic: This thing about WGs not paying tax  (Read 8336 times)

Offline wristjob

Why would WGs be registered for VAT as standard? I would think that the majority are legitimately flying under the VAT threshold. It's about £78k turnover on a rolling 12 months, that's a hell of a lot of cock!

81,000. If you register for VAT you are worse off upto 97,000 turnover (as VAT is charged on ALL earnings) so after 81,000 next 16,000 is free and after that it's 80% earnings. You would be mad to go VAT registered unless you were hitting well over 100,000. Of course you could easily declare 70,000 and "lose" a fair chunk

Offline Kimberly_C

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The VAT threshold is a massive obstacle to many small businesses who want to grow organically. I know tradespeople who have to lay off work when they approach it. I don't know what the answer to that problem should be. I do think there's an intermediate stage where the VAT is somewhat lower? I may not remember correctly.

jcdmj12

You're wrong on 2 counts.

The HMRC are closing down on EBTs - Employees Benefits Trusts, where wages are paid as loans, Self employed people do not have employers and do not get paid wages. Secondly this is nothing like the set up Jimmy Carr had going, he was not found guilty of anything and he was at no stage ordered to pay money back. He OFFERED to pay money back as a gesture of goodwill and to basically save face and whatever rep he had left.

Possibly get your facts together mate, and if you fancy going into work for me tomorrow please feel free to do so.

1. EBTs are a totally a separate tax scheme, which are also being attacked.
2. K2 and other loan schemes are under investigation, likely to be closed down with resulting tax, interest and penalties.
3. Beyond that, I don't know or care.  That's why I pay a tax advisor.
4. You can't be found "guilty" of tax avoidance unless you have committed a criminal act (i.e. fraud). That term is meaningless.
5. It's more likely he offered to pay the money back as part of a deal to avoid penalties rather than just to save face, although that was probably part of it.
6. Hardly with any significant income is self-employed. You form a limited company and are employed by that company (which involves taking wages, typically about 8-10k a year)  along with taking dividends as a shareholder.

Quote
Possibly get your facts together mate, and if you fancy going into work for me tomorrow please feel free to do so.

I have no idea what this means.

Like I said, I don't claim to be a tax expert or accountant by any stretch.  I'm just curious why someone who claims to be one (or tax consultant, whatever) gets basic facts wrong such as IR35 being about self-employment as opposed to about using intermediaries?

Offline Aspen

What I do know 500% for sure is that anyone earning £1500 + a week in untraceable cash would be very stupid to declare it to HMRC.

Good point.
Banning reason: Secret barebacker who used the name "Loneranger" to slag off UKP and spread malicious claims against admin + Previously banned as "overhead". Also known as "Warwick"

Offline Aspen

The VAT threshold is a massive obstacle to many small businesses who want to grow organically. I know tradespeople who have to lay off work when they approach it. I don't know what the answer to that problem should be. I do think there's an intermediate stage where the VAT is somewhat lower? I may not remember correctly.

It's the administration that is the problem, rather than the actual transactions. Once you are registered for VAT it then dominates the accounting. The deadlines, which are draconian and inflexible, have to be met, otherwise the penalties are crippling.
Banning reason: Secret barebacker who used the name "Loneranger" to slag off UKP and spread malicious claims against admin + Previously banned as "overhead". Also known as "Warwick"

Offline Daffodil

I don't see how they can spend it, considering a purchase of (I believe) over £10,000+ cash automatically triggers all kinds of alerts. So they can't just go out and treat themselves to a new Porsche or anything like that. And if they're going through £25,000+ of discretionary spending per year buying Louboutins, the best restaurants, holidays etc., it must be a hell of a come down when they finally become that nurse/midwife/marketing consultant that they were always planning on being and suddenly only have £25,000 a year total.

Come off it, prostitutes do not eat in high-end restaurants. They'd probably butter their bread with their fish knife.

For the most part prostitutes are "here and now" people. They don't save, they don't have realistic long-term goals. There is no £20,000 under the mattress.

I don't believe they even "earn" anything like the numbers you claim. Whenever I try to book one they are invariably free. When I go to an in call at their own place it is invariably council estate or similar, their cars are never expensive.

A prostitute with the goods and a business brain may be able to "earn" a lot of money and the more savvy may put some aside, but these prossies are very few and far between  :hi:

Offline Blade1960

Yeah most of this thread seems to concentrate on Indie Girls paying Tax or Not  :(
But whats the situation with Girls working in Parlours ?
I remember about 5 or 6 years ago now is was punting with a regular girl in one of the Best Known  parlours in the North of England, and mid punt there was a Tap on the door, and a whisper or 2 ensued  :(
So when the Punt finished, instead of the Girl following me out to Reception as usual, she said " I'm staying here a bit Hun coz there's people in Reception i want to avoid"  :(
Ok i say and kissed her goodbye and as i get in Reception there are 2 Tax inspectors or suchlike talking to the Parlour owner  :thumbsdown:
So are Parlour Girls Self Employed or Not ? And if the girls are "On the Fiddle"  how do the Parlour Owners Explain this to the Inland Revenue   :(



Offline dandaley

What I do know 500% for sure is that anyone earning £1500 + a week in untraceable cash would be very stupid to declare it to HMRC.


yup +1 and tbh i really dont care about wgs or other jobs that get away with it, good for them  :hi:

Offline Kimberly_C

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I am not a tax expert which is why I drive a cab for a living.    :hi:

What I do know 500% for sure is that anyone earning £1500 + a week in untraceable cash would be very stupid to declare it to HMRC.

Maybe you could educate us with your "correct answer".     :unknown:

But what if that person wants to buy an expensive house or pay tuition for a private school or otherwise give their children a middle-class lifestyle? I'm not saying that that's what most or even many prossies do, but you're talking about "anyone" so I'm just putting out there a reason why someone might want to do exactly that.

Of course, "anyone" may also arrive at a compromise where they are declaring *most* of their income but spending some cash on small things and saving a few thousand a year in taxes.

Offline jackdaw

yup +1 and tbh i really dont care about wgs or other jobs that get away with it, good for them  :hi:

Its not the worst crime in the world, not by a long shot.

But it is a crime, and one I care about to some extent. Way i look at it...those very people who won't pay their tax...are very happy to use all the publicly funded stuff such as NHS, libraries, subsidised transport, etc, etc.

Offline k

UK pro$$ies would have NI numbers, don't you automatically get one, I got mine when I left school.

They would live in rented accommodation and be claiming tax credits.

Take holidays in Europe to avoid stamps in passport.

Own a car that is registered in daddies name, preferably nothing too flash.
There's still evidence of a paper trail in there.  The crunch comes with the seemingly innocuous "spot checks" that can easily be done at point of arrival/departure.

Increasingly we are living in a cashless society.  The only methods I see for criminals (tax evaders come into this category) to realize their gains in future is to barter, or to trade in Bitcoins.    Once that point is reached, people who have been hitherto invisible as far as HMRC are concerned will begin to appear, and this is where HMRC will start asking where have you been for the past 30 years.

Even the Swiss have recently struck a deal with HMRC over cash stashed away in their vaults.  The existence of it begs the question how and where did you earn this money.

Offline NIK

What no one ever seems to say, including prossies themselves, in this endless debate which we have had for years is if they do pay tax  :lol: what on earth do they put on their tax return under occupation?

Prostitute?  - Definitely not. Although it's not illegal to be a prostitute, I believe it's still illegal to live on 'immoral' earnings.

Escort / Masseur / Therapist or some other such euphemistic bollocks? - Presumably

Courtesan?  -  :lol:

Offline k

This is spot on.  I also have a friend in the Revenue and unless there is a big flag, say 50k plus they don't really bother to persue it as the resources to do so simply aren't there.
I'm sorry, but that is simply not the case.  It is more to do with your "business footprint" than the absolute amounts of money.  Running a restaurant is considered low-risk for tax evasion: you have 20 tables in your restaurant with an average of x% occupancy: HMRC have good knowledge of your turnover and profit.  They may send inspectors in to observe exactly how many tables are occupied, and they will also look at the restaurant suppliers to see if the purchases tally with the output.  If a pizza house is buying ten times as many pizza bases as needed to service the number of tables in their restaurant then clearly they are running a takeaway operation too, or have a hidden subsidiary business somewhere.   They may just be lousy cooks, but that is not a story that HMRC will easily swallow.

Offline Kimberly_C

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What no one ever seems to say, including prossies themselves, in this endless debate which we have had for years is if they do pay tax  :lol: what on earth do they put on their tax return under occupation?

Prostitute?  - Definitely not. Although it's not illegal to be a prostitute, I believe it's still illegal to live on 'immoral' earnings.

Escort / Masseur / Therapist or some other such euphemistic bollocks? - Presumably

Courtesan?  -  :lol:

There have been numerous discussions about this on SAAFE. I've heard of things like makeup artist or masseuse. I do know of one who said she declares "escort." I am paranoid about whether or not anyone will ever need to see my paperwork (like for a mortgage or something - I honestly don't know how that works as I've never applied for one) so I do use a euphemism. I also wouldn't like to attract attention to my paperwork: someone seeing the word "prostitute" would naturally be inclined to stop and have a closer look simply out of prurient interest.

Since I get my condoms for free and many of my work-related expenditures don't qualify to be claimed - things like clothes or toiletries would be considered as things I would buy, anyway - it's not necessary to be precise. If I were to be audited (or whatever it's called over here), I feel I am able to elucidate honestly on what I'm doing without worry as my euphemism isn't really off the mark. I have never heard it said that it's actually illegal to earn money immorally. I have never heard anything other than that the taxman cares not how the money is earned: only that income is declared and taxes are paid. But, I have only lived here a few years and there are quite a lot of things I don't know about

Offline Jimmyredcab



Increasingly we are living in a cashless society. 

Speak for yourself.    :hi: :hi: :hi:

The only time I am forced to use my credit card is when I buy a flight online, cash is not going to disappear any time soon.  :hi:

Offline Jimmyredcab

I have never heard it said that it's actually illegal to earn money immorally. I have never heard anything other than that the taxman cares not how the money is earned: only that income is declared and taxes are paid. But, I have only lived here a few years and there are quite a lot of things I don't know about

It is perfectly legal to work as a prostitute in this country, any new laws would be aimed at punters not the girls.  :hi:

Offline Jimmyredcab

What no one ever seems to say, including prossies themselves, in this endless debate which we have had for years is if they do pay tax  :lol: what on earth do they put on their tax return under occupation?

Prostitute?  - Definitely not. Although it's not illegal to be a prostitute, I believe it's still illegal to live on 'immoral' earnings.

Escort / Masseur / Therapist or some other such euphemistic bollocks? - Presumably

Courtesan?  -  :lol:

Maybe one of our legal experts could clarify that point but I think it is illegal to live on the immoral earnings of someone else, that would mean a pro$$ie is breaking no laws.   

Offline Kimberly_C

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This website seems to be a pretty valid source of information, but comes with the caveat that each taxpayer should consult an accountant personally:



I see that it may not be acceptable for a prostitute to be a limited company, although when I read the story it was not clear that it's still an issue as the case in question was an extraordinary one where the defendant had a political agenda, and some of the rules on limited companies have been changed since that time. I will have to look into this! I haven't been working in the UK long enough to have fallen afoul, personally, and at worst I will simply have to pay more tax as a sole trader. Not ideal but what can you do?
« Last Edit: August 04, 2014, 10:37:28 AM by NIK »

Offline k

Speak for yourself.    :hi: :hi: :hi:

The only time I am forced to use my credit card is when I buy a flight online, cash is not going to disappear any time soon.  :hi:

Offline smiths

An Indie WG is legal if working solely alone so the money she makes is legitimate legally as long as she pays the tax due on it. Unless she owns the freehold of her working premises she may well be breaking the terms of her tenancy, leasehold or mortgage though.


Unless its changed whats immoral is the deal a punter and WG do, its an immoral contract so if either went to court to dispute say the punter refused to pay or the WG didnt offer what she promised it would get thrown out if it even made it to court which i doubt it would do. Thats my understanding any way.

Offline k

This website seems to be a pretty valid source of information, but comes with the caveat that each taxpayer should consult an accountant personally:


I see that it may not be acceptable for a prostitute to be a limited company, although when I read the story it was not clear that it's still an issue as the case in question was an extraordinary one where the defendant had a political agenda, and some of the rules on limited companies have been changed since that time. I will have to look into this! I haven't been working in the UK long enough to have fallen afoul, personally, and at worst I will simply have to pay more tax as a sole trader. Not ideal but what can you do?
Kimberley that is a great resource you've linked to.
---
Reference earlier discussion: I note there is a section on Amnesties
« Last Edit: August 04, 2014, 10:37:38 AM by NIK »

Offline sam55



Come off it, prostitutes do not eat in high-end restaurants. They'd probably butter their bread with their fish knife.


Lol, nice one Daff, you know how to wound!

Nearly choked on my kedgeree and devilled kidneys with laughing!  :D

Offline Jimmyredcab

Kimberley that is a great resource you've linked to.
---



THIS IS A PUNTERS FORUM -------------- SAAFE IS THE PLACE FOR THIS CRAP.       :angry: :mad: :diablo:

The vast majority of pro$$ies pay no tax, that is a FACT.   

Offline smiths

Yeah most of this thread seems to concentrate on Indie Girls paying Tax or Not  :(
But whats the situation with Girls working in Parlours ?
I remember about 5 or 6 years ago now is was punting with a regular girl in one of the Best Known  parlours in the North of England, and mid punt there was a Tap on the door, and a whisper or 2 ensued  :(
So when the Punt finished, instead of the Girl following me out to Reception as usual, she said " I'm staying here a bit Hun coz there's people in Reception i want to avoid"  :(
Ok i say and kissed her goodbye and as i get in Reception there are 2 Tax inspectors or suchlike talking to the Parlour owner  :thumbsdown:
So are Parlour Girls Self Employed or Not ? And if the girls are "On the Fiddle"  how do the Parlour Owners Explain this to the Inland Revenue   :(

The idea with a Parlour like an Agency is the pimp gets the WGs punters through their advertising and in the case of a Parlour which is always a brothel supply the WG with the premises to work out of. In exchange the WG agrees to pay the pimp a set cut of her fees. In this scenario the WG is self employed so up to her to pay tax BUT the pimp is breaking the law by taking a cut of the WGs fees, the WG isnt breaking the law, unless she actively helps run the brothel by answering the phone for example, just being a WG in a brothel is legal unless she is underage (where legally she would be treated as a victim), being coerced or an illegal immigrant.

Offline Lilywhite

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But what if that person wants to buy an expensive house or pay tuition for a private school or otherwise give their children a middle-class lifestyle? I'm not saying that that's what most or even many prossies do, but you're talking about "anyone" so I'm just putting out there a reason why someone might want to do exactly that.

Of course, "anyone" may also arrive at a compromise where they are declaring *most* of their income but spending some cash on small things and saving a few thousand a year in taxes.

+1 for this.

Some of us have a very clear goal for the future and know that we have a limited time-span. I don't declare myself as an escort, but if anyone was to ask me I'd tell them. I believe that if you want to tell them you are a 'Dragon trainer' you can. As long as it's not illegal and you pay what you owe, they don't give a fuck.


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